The real reasons Prostitution is Illegal in the USA (sans Nevada)

The idea that divorce benefits women and screws men is simply total bullshit. Such a fucked up belief.

@ skibum609, explain yourself please. I want to hear this. It's common knowledge that divorce is designed to destroy the financial resources of the man. The only condition where this doesn't happen is if the woman makes more money. Even then, it's based primarily on who wins custody and unless a woman is in seriously bad condition (basically a criminal or mentally/physically impaired) she wins.

It's not clear Trump engaged in prostitution. He foolishly thought Daniels would fuck him without getting a financial benefit.
The problem with legal prostitution in Nevada is it forces the sex worker to have a pimp aka brothel owner.
Many social conservatives see sex workers as degenerates, attacking monogamy for financial gain. But people more broadly are inclined to see sex workers as victims. They don't see the occupation as something someone could every come out ahead by doing. Belittling and hateful attitudes towards sex workers, as often seen on this website, support the viewpoint that doing sex work is never a good long term option.

@ ilbbaicnl, just so we are clear, I am okay with sex work. The entire reason for this post is that I support sex work and would like to see brothels and red light districts in more than one state. I didn't think most of the posters disliked sex work. I think people get upset because they believe a sex worker scammed them (which does happen).

Ironically, legalized sex work eliminates most of these problems (because legit business needs returning customers).

In my ideal world, The US should have about 6 or 7 "red light zones" that compete with each other but have strict state regulations. These areas obviously would be located a good enough distance away from mainstream society (likely a place that has a low chance of gentrification). There are a bunch of other regulations I would add similar to strip clubs and international brothels.

OWL - What you cite as common knowledge is simply a bunch of people who all believe in the same thing, despite it being wrong, based on their limited experience and subjective biases. I will explain. 50+ years ago men worked outside the home and most women were homemakers. The man earned the income, accumulated the assets, and being human, when its the house you bought, the pension you earned, the 401k that you saved, gets split up you think you're getting screwed You were as long as there was no monetary value on raising the kids cleaning the house, running the errands, laundry, dishes, cooking, doctor's appointments etc. If you view a marriage as a partnership, she made him able to do this, but he fails to value her contribution at all, hence getting screwed.

You actually know this because you mention women getting screwed if they earn more money. If that is the case, then it has jack shit to do with gender, and is all based on the gender neutral issue of earnings. It's their incorrect perception, not a fact.

It is also true that whomever gets custody of the children, gets part of the other's paycheck. Judge Catherine Sabaitas always used to say: "Ma'am I am ordering you to receive child support. Its not going to be enough. Sir, I am ordering you to pay child support, it is going to be more than you can afford. I wish I could be fair, but with expenses doubling (2 households) and no commensurate increase in income, its all I can do".

My opinion? The custodial parent gets the short end of the stick. As far as father's getting custody? All things being exactly equal men have a 40% chance of getting custody. I have 7 custody cases going to trial in the next 12 months, 5 are for men and I expect 3-4 to win.

My point of view is based on my parents having 5 divorces between them; 5 step-parents; 1 year representing people in divorce court while at Law School and 43 years, about 7,500 days spent, in divorce court watching this bullshit for hours, but not since 11:30 this morning.

@Skibum609 youre correct in that divorce rulings are gender neutral and biased against whoever made more money.. but i have heard women overwhelmingly get custody in child support cases.

I dont see how you can possibly argue the custodial parent gets the short end of the stick. Because they have to take the kid to school and doctor appointments?

And the child support system is completely flawed, as is the divorce system. You mention things like the wife 50 years ago raising the kid, driving them around feeding them, and not being compensated. Thats true they deserve some compensation, but it doesnt mean they deserve hundreds of thousands just for taking care of the kid. If you hired a caretaker to do all that stuff the cost would be like 30k a year or even less. And the wife was getting free housing, free food and bills paid so she already got some compensation.

Being married to someone shouldnt entitle you to their wealth.

The feminism camp has two parties, one extremely pro sex work, and the other anti sex work who believe sex workers are always getting screwed whether sex work is illegal or legal.

Prostitution clients are overwhelmingly male, even clients of male prostitutes. So the people voting against legalization are usually going to be religious people, women who dont want men having access easy paid pussy, and also parents who are worried that legalization will lead to their kids getting into prostitution. And there’s probably some guys who are worried their wife or girl would get into it with legalization.

@icey “ If anything people ignore the negative factors that force women into sex work”

Yeah but the solution definitely isnt socialistic policies domestically, let alone forcing taxpayer dollars to be given to places like colombia, bolviia, cuba, dominican republic etc just so you can reduce prostitution lol. Yoi can perhaps improve some domestic factors but reducing those factors worldwide is impossible

“ the 401k that you saved, gets split up you think you're getting screwed You were as long as there was no monetary value on raising the kids cleaning the house, running the errands, laundry, dishes, cooking, doctor's appointments etc. If you view a marriage as a partnership, she made him able to do this, but he fails to value her contribution at all, hence getting screwed.”

Those activities are worth at most 20-30k a year of compensation, but the wife was already also being compensated via free food and free rent.

@ chunky, thank you. I agree with what skibum is saying. But the reason men tend to become more bitter is because of how this all plays out in society.

The harsh truth about modern society is that women are celebrated for whatever they do, even if what that is is mediocre at best or at worst more detrimental to the nuclear family unit.

My mother, a single mom for over 20 years, said it best "All single mothers are not created equal". Some women have to struggle and work to make ends meet. Others game the system to get as many dollars out of it as they can (even if they don't need it).

And we both agree: certain women just don't want sex work to prosper, despite the fact that many women BENEFIT directly or indirectly off of it. Does anyone remember what happened to Flag Girls or Booth Babes at conventions? You can thank femi-nazi for the lack of them.

Also remember that many content creators, be it porn or more acceptable adult content, benefit indirectly from sex work. Lingerie and revealing clothing for women is made primarily by female fashion designers.

I forgot the name (Jake Powell??) of the TJ YouTuber, but he said it best: many of these women want to be whores. It's low investment work with a high payout for them. He was mostly referring to both US strippers and TJ Bar girls.

@owl the word "whore" is analogous to the word nigger. Some women think there's an ok and not ok way to use it, many (including sex workers) consider it (always) offensive. Seems belittling that you don't seem to already know that. Why do you think FS sex work should be restricted to brothels in red light districts? What about all the escorts who work out of hotels/houses/apartments, should that still be illegal? How do you think a typical customer with a wife or girlfriend would react if she said she wanted to do sex work, or reveled she had done sex work in the past?
I don't think sex work should be illegal, as that has been seen to do no good. Like having alcohol or pot be illegal. When I get to know a sex worker, she's almost always someone who's in the same boat I was before I got trained to do IT. Somebody who might be choosing between sex work and living hand to mouth. Sex work is very challenging, and it will affect how people see you, even if you decide to leave it. Sex workers seem to get blindsided to one degree or another by the disadvantages. So I couldn't honestly say I think people who believe in the Nordic approach are totally off base.

Right now, this feels like a massive uphill battle. Vice President Vance and Speaker Johnson have both built their brands on being anti-sex (except for couch fucking, that's ok). In supposedly liberal Mass, yesterday, they made a big announcement about arresting "human traffickers" when they seemingly only arrested Johns and not any pimps or actual traffickers. The big beautiful bill included a fuck ton of money for additional government surveillance. Even in Oregon, which probably leads the nation in personal freedoms, when an old dude pointed out that under current Oregon law it is illegal to scan licenses for people clearly overaged, a reactionary Christian state rep is leading a charge to to repeal that freedom.

All that being said, 20 years ago, I wouldn't have dreamed that pot would be legal basically everywhere. 20 years ago, I wouldn't have expected that legal brothels would have popped up Germany, Austria, Spain, Belgium, or that Quebec and Ontario would deprioritize enforcing it. Ireland, of all places, overwhelmingly legalized abortion. On the other hand, smoking laws have clearly become much more restrictive. The point being that sin laws can change pretty rapidly.

Maine adopted the nordic model, which we all know isn't a step forward, but I do wonder if they adopted it with the intention of being more like Quebec than Sweden. On the other hand, Iceland and Sweden are becoming more anti-sex (not just anti-prostitution, but anti-sex), and the pendulum in the UK will swing back towards intolerance with the next election, because Starmer sucks.

VT, OR, RI, and WI all seem like states that might take a serious run at decriminalization at some point.

All this being said, my rotation of strip clubs is basically places that are "clean" or light on extras. The libertarian in me wants us to be in a world of more personal freedoms, but I don't want to be in a world where we no longer have strip clubs and they all turn into brothels.

Owl... This is a most excellent subject and discussion. We are a land of prudes.

and you definitely should have submitted it as a article.

^ In New England the Puritans made the Pilgrims seem like hedonistic wild people.

Women over 40 tend to dislike sex work. Unless they did it themselves and came out ok, there often is a maternalistic desire to protect young women from themselves. They also don't want their men to easily be able to go hire a prostitute.

Young guys often don't like sex work. Obviously it can be a mixed bag and young guys with money sometimes love strippers and whores. But for the most part a lot of young guys don't like the idea of older guys with money buying "their" women who the young guys "should" be fucking for free.

I think a lot of older guys tend to take a balanced view on sex work. There are some who want to control women and their bodies. But most guys over 40 realize they aren't going to get 21 year old pussy without paying for it one way or another.

So the swing demographic ends up being young women who on the whole have a complex view of sex work. Most seem to favor decriminalization at some level. Most also don't want to be friends with hookers or strippers. Stripping gets an asterisk because air dance rip offs can be viewed as empowering, but once there is significant contact a lot of young women find the idea unpleasant. Onlyfans is carving an interesting niche, because a lot of it is built around ripping guys off. Someone smarter than me should really dive into the psychology of why young women prefer the idea of other women ripping horny guys off rather than performing fair transactions.

Sugaring also put a nice veneer over sex work for young women. To her friends she goes on dates with nice older guys who are paying her to hang out with them. And if she feels like it, she has sex with them. Empowering! But we know if she doesn't put out there won't be another date and the money will dry up.

@ JamesSD, I am in my mid-thirties. I agree with this:

"I think a lot of older guys tend to take a balanced view on sex work. There are some who want to control women and their bodies. But most guys over 40 realize they aren't going to get 21 year old pussy without paying for it one way or another."

The harsh truth is that unless you are blessed with good genetics, have an athletic physique, or (most importantly) have a charismatic personality, it is difficult to establish a relationship with women (especially ones that are purely sexual). If you do have attractive characteristics for women, you may not necessarily be able to get them without doing some form of transaction (dating, vacations, etc). Most relationships are TRANSACTIONAL; the difference is only what that transaction is and how willing and able either party is to participate in it.

I have seen the phenomenon you are describing with young women. It is the old adage of "having your cake and eating it too". They are okay with supporting sex work because it is right they believe women should have as a means to support themselves. However, they know that to attract a high-quality male, a high body count and promiscuous reputation are usually a non-starter. The attraction to scamming men with air-dances and Onlyfans is because most women simply DO NOT WANT TO DO IT. They do it simply for the money and have no interest in the men they are using to provide the money.

As one TUSCL poster said, if women were in charge of strip clubs, they would mandate you have $1000 to spend at the club. Any form of contact would be a mortgage payment. They have no idea how the economics of business work; they just want immediate financial gratification. They are oblivious (or don't care) that REAL escorts have to charge fees that are commensurate with market demands ($100 to $300, varying on the location).

The issue with the Nordic model is that it ultimately leads to smarter buyers and leads the industry more underground. I will admit that it discourages buyers from mistreating sex workers, but it does not stop the behavior. It also makes profitting of the sex work more difficult from the selling (ironically or intentionally?)

@ Icey, perhaps we are having a misunderstanding. I would be okay with pre-Prohibition brothels in the United States. The problem is that we have been dealing with federal and state governments that will not consider it because there is no political capital to be gained by doing so. Americans are the biggest frauds on Earth. We have a Christian image we want to show the world, but in reality, only a small percentage of the population believes in Christ AND wants 100% of god's law to be implemented with proper enforcement. It's all for show and no substance. I follow a conservative messaging board (to read their comments, not participate) and as a few of them have pointed out: all conservatives at the federal level have done is simply compromised religion. Abortion is a STATE issue, but not federally banned. LGBTQ marriages are in trouble, but currently still legal and will remain so even if the Supreme Court overturns the case.

I just want brothels that set prices based on the economics of their respective locations. No different than any other business. My complaints are not about spending money; I have no problem with buying services. I just believe there needs to be a metric to determine the ACTUAL demand for service versus whatever a woman WANTS for it to be. There is a reason groceries and products typically cost similar prices across the 50 states in the US, with a normal standard deviation.

About 20% of people smoke pot. That percentage doesn't vary much between where it's legal and where it's not. Given that, it doesn't make sense to think that prostitution laws are the main deterrent to women escorting. So no reason there will be a big rush of women to do FS just because it becomes legal. Thus no big downward pressure on the cost. Yes, what the provider WANTS to charge in 50% of the negotiated rate. Put on your man pants and accept it.

Escorts need to know the IRL identity of new clients in order to work safely. So they oppose laws that subject clients to arrest, as it makes clients more reluctant to prove their identity. A dangerous client is a bigger fear to an escort than an misdemeanor prostitution arrest.

I suspect public opinion is split on it. However those who are against it are very vocal and they’re in both parties.

The Republicans have the holy rollers and the Democrats have the man haters. Very few people want to publically go to bat for prostitution.

The Democrats used to have a different constituency in the old days. Both parties were more masculine but working class men dominated in the cities. Those were the days of the red light districts. I know Lyndon Johnson said when he was young the Texas legislature ran on beer, blondes, and beef steak. That’s not today’s Democratic Party.

Trump is full of crap on this but it’s not unusual. Christian conservatives are part of his base and he does stuff to appease them. He used to pretty emphatically support abortion and the guy liked bantering with Howard Strrn. There is no way that’s what he actually thinks but with him he mostly does and says what’s convenient at the time.

To think that there wouldn't be larger market for prostitution (both supply and demand) if it was legal is foolish. Netherlands, Spain, and Germany have higher rates of men using prostitutes than western countries where it is illegal. (25% than countries where it is illegal 17%). US states have a much higher percentage of pot users than states where it is not legal: sciencedirect.com

I can't be bothered to find it, but I recall reading that the Netherland's drug usage rates were much much higher than the rest of the continent.

FWIW, my read on the Democratic party isn't that they are specifically opposed to "men" and full of misandry. Rather, it is that they are scared shitless of the NY Times or CNN sayiing they are out of touch with middle America. (Of course they ARE out of touch with middle America, but the current Dem leadership still thinks it is the 1980s or even the 1950s on everything). The Republican party is another story, there have always been sex hypocrites in the party, but right now the second and third in line to the presidency are legit prudes (except for couch fucking).

@ boomer779 " The Republicans have the holy rollers and the Democrats have the man haters. Very few people want to publicly go to bat for prostitution.

The Democrats used to have a different constituency in the old days. Both parties were more masculine, but working-class men dominated in the cities. Those were the days of the red light districts. I know Lyndon Johnson said when he was young, the Texas legislature ran on beer, blondes, and beef steak. That’s not today’s Democratic Party. "

This is why the Democratic Party is currently failing. They lost the support of the middle-class blue-collar workers. The complete misandry I have seen displayed on the left is enough to make me want to sit out most elections. It also doesn't help that their economic plans are not geared toward bringing back jobs for industries that have historically been male-dominated. The only hope for Democrats is if the Tariffs eventually become unsustainable and start causing massive price hikes and job losses that can no longer be denied.

@blah, "FWIW, my read on the Democratic party isn't that they are specifically opposed to "men' and full of misandry. Rather, it is that they are scared shitless of the NY Times or CNN saying they are out of touch with middle America. (Of course, they ARE out of touch with middle America, but the current Dem leadership still thinks it is the 1980s or even the 1950s on everything.) The Republican party is another story, there have always been sex hypocrites in the party, but right now the second and third in line to the presidency are legit prudes (except for couch fucking)."

I believe that both you and Ilbbaicnl have a point, but are missing the middle ground explanation for all of this. Most women in the United States do not WANT to be sex workers; they do so because it is a convenient and low-effort way to make additional income. If you want to know how well this do if prositution becomes legal in the US, look at the number of men who travel out of the country for services, look at the number of women advertising on multiple adult websites, and to a lesser degree, look at the number of men who visit strip clubs any other sex-adjacent facilities. The demand is there, and the participants to meet that demand are there.

Even with a strong demand, I doubt the number of sex workers would increase significantly even with full federal legalization. Religion and social mores alone would prevent mass acceptance. Even without those factors, the modern welfare state and employment opportunities for women are strong enough that, honestly, only the most disenfranchised people would consider it a primary source of income. We have had posts like this before, but look at the breakdown of the average types of women who become strippers. Typically, you are dealing with women who have few lucrative career options. I am well aware that former famous porn stars or internet celebrities do sex work, but they are typically the exception that proves the rule. They have enough of a following where they can attract big spenders (whales) so that they do not have to resort to low-profit escort work.

@ Icey, as an American, my options are limited. Either I have to review an escort website and find a woman. I have to call her and ask for appointment. We set up a time (typically immediately) and I meet at their hotel.

This is where the BS can happen. Does she have a room already? When I arrive is she going to give me her room number or do the "drive around" garbage where I have to be exactly in her window line of sight?

Barring those obstacles (the 2nd being very common) we get to business and I leave.

My other option is to try to hit up a streetwalker, VERY RARE and not worth it for safety reasons. I could ask out a stripper and OTC. However that's typically the most expensive option because those women really would prefer to make easy money in the club.

How to find the escorts on Facebook or Instagram? They are limited by what they can say because of those sites regulations. Even Onlyfans forbidden you from asking and selling sex directly. Look at their terms of service. Believe me I have tried it with some of these women.

Legalising it will put men more into a position of power in relationships or interactions with women. If men could get exactly what they want anytime they want men have no initiative to take women’s bs or play their games. Less simping and doing dumb shit for sex. You will see a shift change we’re women no longer have that control

Kinda like Colombia or any country with legal prostitution and see how the men operate. It’s a difference

Lol @icey onlyfans doesnt allow sny sort of discussion of meetups. They have trackers in the chat that actually wont even let you send a message if it detects your asking to meet up.

Yes onlyfans girls do meetups. But they dont do them via onlyfans site. A lot of guys may not know of how to meet an OF girl.

Also theres always going to be a certain % of guys who want to see a prostitute but wont because of legal concerns. Tbere are also a % who wont because of fear of being ripped off, robbed etc.

Girls dont openly sell their pussy at regular bars and clubs. The ones doing it on social media do it in a careful way and even then a bunch are scammers, a bunch charge exorbitant amounts etc.

Legalization would increase the people partaking on both ends. Providers and clients. You probably dont want legalization because you dont want prices for hookers going down, because your business will suffer.

@Owl it has nothing to do with good genetics or athletic physique. Bodybuilders, weightlifters, even track guys got nowhere near the girls that football and basketball guys got. Even when in a lot of cases the bodybuilders looked better in every way. Also a bunch of fat frat guys were doing well

TER is the best way to find escorts that I know of. For various reasons, most were disappointing to me. But I would become a regular with the ones I liked, so it worked pretty well for me. Similar situation with strippers. I don't see that it would be different in a brothel. Unless the sex workers are under the threat of extreme poverty, as they are in TJ.
What's wrong with Vivide as a brothel? They don't seem to be bothered by LE. So why don't US-born women who speak English well flock to work there?

"Yes onlyfans girls do meetups. But they dont do them via onlyfans site. A lot of guys may not know of how to meet an OF girl.

Also theres always going to be a certain % of guys who want to see a prostitute but wont because of legal concerns. Tbere are also a % who wont because of fear of being ripped off, robbed etc.

Girls dont openly sell their pussy at regular bars and clubs. The ones doing it on social media do it in a careful way and even then a bunch are scammers, a bunch charge exorbitant amounts etc.

Legalization would increase the people partaking on both ends. Providers and clients. You probably dont want legalization because you dont want prices for hookers going down, because your business will suffer."

Thanks Chicano. Typically the only way to meet an Onlyfans girl is if she decides to post on any open forum adult sites (escort websites). I have done that before with good results. But then it raises the question: why not just use the escort sites? Which is what I'm already doing. My only choice is to pick from different sites. But what you'll notice is that most of the women are shared (or they post on all the sites).

Regular Social Media like Facebook and Instagram are rarely pushed because some of those women have lives outside of sex work. It's very difficult to find legit sex workers on mainstream SM.

And I agree, legalization of sex work would effectively kill Golden Pussy Syndrome for certain women. When men can just pay for sex it creates soft competition with dating and ultimately expectations in normal relationships.

Personally, I believe that a REAL relationship is always better. I think there may be ideas that men who support sex work just don't want to put in the work of getting a woman regularly. The truth is that I PREFER to actually date women.

I think the deal breaker for me is that some women have expectations beyond what they are willing to bring to the relationship (ie like why does a 30 year old woman with 2 kids have the same expectations as a woman who is 21 and has no kids).

The current dating market is actually not good for either side. I see prostitution more as a equalizer and not a replacement.

@ilbbaicnl TER isn’t really a place to find escorts. Nor is P411 or whatever. These are escort review sites. They do have a forum section and people you can DM… but they aren’t really built for finding new escorts. They are meant for reviews on existing escorts.

For finding new escorts the best places are X, tryst, private delights, eros, and there are smaller sites like listcrawler, rub rankings skipthegames etc.

The best places to find non pimped escorts are X and tryst. There area couple pornstar specific websites to hire them as an escort, which I forgot.

Your comment of Vivide makes no sense. How many women across the US are aware of Vivide and also aware they can freely work as a prostitute there with no LE issue? That is before you even get into the fact they would have to move to that area and deal with competition among other girls there and work in a strip club.

Even among male club goers, how many strip club guys across the country actually know about Vivide at all? And of the small % who have heard the name, only some portion of them will know its a brothel.

Sex work is highly individualized. One girl may be willing to provide extras for $100, one will want $1000 or even more. Its not so unlike any other product or service industry where you have for example a $100 watch, $1000 watch, $10000, 100k+ etc.

@Owl most social media isnt good for escorts, but X, and to a lesser extent reddit are good. A lot of the girls posting on X are legit, too. But a lot of the X girls want higher rates. They usually will have tryst profiles as well as their own website. Once you click on one X profile linked on a girls tryst profile you will get other providers suggested and if you go through their X feed youll see their discussions and comments with other escorts. The pimped eros girls, listcrawler girls usually dont have an X profile

Thanks Chicano. I never thought about using X (former twitter). I will see what I can find. I have used most of the escort sites you listed.

@ ilbbaicnl, That is really not the best idea. As Chicano said, most strippers don't even know about Vivide if they don't live in the South US. Even then, most won't work want to work in a Latina dominant club and the reputation of it being a lite-brothel is a secret best kept to strip club goers (ironically to the benefit of both of the women and the management).

I am not saying we should gatekeep knowledge, but we should be somewhat secretive in keeping the general public out. I have two brothel-lite clubs in my area and I'm happy that for the most part average joes don't frequent often. Don't give law enforcement a reason to visit (the problem with most Black clubs)

@ Icey, it's not overly complicated. I am just making a point that prostitution should be more legal than what it is. I have long accepted that will not happen, and I have spent the past 13 years of my life doing everything I can to break the cycle.

I am going to create another discussion (maybe put it in Articles?). It's going to discuss what Constitutes porn and the limits USA government will go to restrict it.

I see no reason to think Cuban or other immigrant Latina strippers haze US-born strippers. I don't think Vivide has a policy against hiring US-born white dancers. US-born white women, if they want to dance at all, prefer to work at non-extras clubs.

@owl why not just emigrate to Australia? redlightrelaxation.com.au

@ Icey, which clubs do you frequent for extras? I can tell you with over 5 years of mongering experience that white women are by far the most difficult to get extras from unless the club is well-known for it. I say this as a black man: blacks and latinas are far more often to bargain with you as long as you have money. Some dancers even work off the clock if you know where to look.