If 1 of your fav's wanted the money up front would she then be a fake ass??

It wouldn't bother me at all. Some people are extremely obedient to authority figures like a manager. The old just following orders. (Some people think that is never a defense and others thinks it always a defense and still others depend on an authority figure to tell them if it's a defense.)

She probably didn't see it as a big deal. I think that might have happened to me once or twice with dancers who knew I would pay. In each instance it was the old obeying the manager story because some girl got ripped off by a customer. Future visits and it just faded away or there was a new manager.

It WOULD bother me... once a dancer becomes one of my favs, we never discuss money. If money is being paid, I just give her what I feel I owe. The only time that wouldn't be the case is if we were ITC and I completely lost count of the dances, then I will ask her what I owe.

NEVER, would I be asked to pay up front, though.

It would probably reduce my fantasy that she liked me "for real." Depending on my momentary ability to suspend disbelief and indulge in fantasy, it would have very little or very great effect.

It would bother me at a club where it's not the normal procedure, even if she explained that the manager was now insisting on it. It just sounds like she was very insensitive in handling it with you, Jpac. She's just hurting her own earnings that way. I know I would buy fewer dances. I never know how many I will be getting ahead of time, so stopping after each dance to pay for the next one would be a hassle. In places like San Francisco where paying upfront is the norm, I don't take it personally, but it still bothers me.

Like BG, it would reduce my fantasy that she like me and trusted me. As Doug said, it would bother me also.

I would expect my ATFs and FAVs to put some trust into me, for as long and well as they've known me, that I was good for the money. A couple times in the past two years, I have ran short of funds, and would ask dancers to front me additional dances. I always paid them back upon my next return to the club.

I can't see where a club manager can institute a rule for the dancers to get the 'money up front'. After all, he doesn't record it for taxes or SS benefits. The only reason a manager would want the girls to secure the money up front, is so that they had their payouts/tipouts.

If I were a dancer, I'd tell the manager, FUCK YOU BUD, you'll get your share when I leave this club!!!

Hi Bones,

There are very good reasons for managers trying to get the dancers to collect the money upfront. Most dancers hate it because they understand they make more and can cheat more (assuming they're crooks) if the customer pays after the dances.

"White Boy" a bouncer over at Angels was murdered over a customer's refusal to pay a dancer $20 that was owed. The dancer didn't get the money upfront like she was supposed to, but alas almost none of the dancers ever did because it hurts their earnings too much. So she complains to Steven (I think that is his first name.) and the fight appears to be finished with Steven (the bouncer) defeating the customer and it seemed like end of story. Well, the customer gets a gun out of his pickup truck and two lives are lost over $20. Steven, a young man and a good guy was survived by a pregnant wife and young child as well as his parents. The other young man, I heard was also highly thought of, was captured immediately by police. The complaining dancer was just an emotional wreck and gave up dancing. She was also out of this world beautiful.

So these confrontations continue from time to time because economically it just makes sense for the customer to pay after the dances. Dancer makes more money and club can charge her more.


MAYBE THIS WHY IT DOESN'T BOTHER ME A TINY BIT THAT A DANCER WHO KNOWS ME MIGHT FEEL FORCED TO OBEY A MANAGER'S RANTING ABOUT COLLECTING THE MONEY UPFRONT. BTW, the club makes less----not directly, but from dancers not willing to pay the outrageous fees to dance when their income has been slashed by the money upfront rule. Over at Angels those poor dancers get clobbered left right and center--if there was a free market I strongly believe the dancer's would be calling the shots or at the very least would be treated with due respect to their wallet and person by the club.


OK, rant off a little bit. :)

It has happened to me 3 times total. The first time was a year or two ago in my favorite club. A black dancer that I had never seen before asked for payment upfront. I was surprised because this had never happened to me before. I paid her. The dances were worth the price but I didn't like her attitude, so thats where it ended. I saw her awhile back in Atlanta, when trogangregg and myself visited the Oasis Good Time Emporium We talked briefly but I didn't buy any dances. Hated her stage name. "Queen"

The other 2 times were a little different and I would repeat it anytime. Last month and the month before one of my top favorites came up to me still in street clothes and asked me for $20 and the next time for $40 to pay for her ride to the club and the second time to get ride of her brother, who had driven her to the club. She would never rip me off.

If all the girls in the club were forced to collect up front, I guess I'd suck it up and just go along with it, but I definitely would grumble about it to whoever would listen. But if a fave decided to ask for the moolah up front all on her own, I'd kick her to the curb in a new york minute.

Another reason I wouldn't be upset about a fave asking for the money upfront is that it is something that I wouldn't even think to take personally. I can see a lot of things bringing that situation about. She might be a little paranoid due to drugs. Generally, I like dancers who use drugs at least I liked those who I knew were drug users or even druggies. A good customer might have ripped her off because he was having problems. Another girl might of been ripped off by her good customer making all of the dancers afraid. She might be freaking about making the rent and she knows just having those extra dollars will make her feel a hell of a lot better. I still recall this dancer with her beat up dying car. In the car was an eviction notice and she was desperate to earn money with whatever services were necessary. She tried to budget, but didn't realize shit happens.

There are just so many things that could be bouncing around in the dancer's head. Like her boyfriend threatening to knock her teeth out unless she has a $100 for him next time he walks in the door. Everyone has different likes and dislikes. If you don't like it, then really that is what is important or you could try and see it from her pov.

I've never had a fave, or quasi fave/regular do this to me. Furthermore, I'm hard pressed to recall ANY club out of 100 plus that I've visited in "couchdance era"(last 20 yrs) that required upfront payment for "regular dances" as a normal procedure. 3 of the 35 clubs that I've reviewed require upfront payment for "VIP" area dances, maybe 2-3 more that I didn't try.

But, if I did, I'd react the same way I have to 95% plus of 1st timers that did this; I'd suck it up, but it would be the last time I'd buy dances from them. Most of upfronters gave subpar, or mediocre dances. Even if the dance were good, upfront payment is a mood killer: you're effectively being told that you're regarded as a deadbeat. The 1 exception that I recall: Dancer asked for upfront payment, but added "You look like a good guy, but I had a guy buy a bunch of dances earlier from me, and not pay". As her performance was good (as were her looks), I bought several more dances from her.

I am the customer. If they feel I may be dishonest and try to cheat them I can always go to another club. They need me a whole lot more than I need them. That is the key. Remember, you control the cash, so you dictate the terms. If you don't like something don't be afraid to walk.

That was the beginning of the end with one of my former faves. She just started wanting the money before she danced and eventually, I told her no and that was the end of it. I see her at my favorite club occasionally, but I ignore her completely. Its sad, too, because she is one of their hotter dancers.

It sounds to me that the girl was just trying to do what she was told to do. That wouldn't bother me at all because I wouldn't take it personally. The fact that other girls ignored the directive is irrelevant.

OK, FONDL, try this. You walk into a full service restaurant. As we all well know, it is customary in such establishments to pay AFTER the meal.(unless you happen to consider McDonalds, buffet, or takeout, etal to be FS). "Greeter" says, "We'd be happy to serve you Mr. Cosgrove, but first, we're going to have to take a (fill in the blank)$ security deposit/credit card hold. Subsequent meal is fair or subpar. Would you continue to patronize such an establishment?

Minnow, no I wouldn't. But we're not talking about the establishment here, we're talking about a particular girl. I may hate the establishment's rules (and in fact often do when in a strip club) but I don't take it out on the girls when they're not the ones making the rules. We all know that club managers often have dumb rules and we tolerate them if there are girls there who we like. This sounds like an example of that. Plus paying in advance is common in the sex industry - I've been to lots of clubs where you have to pay for dances in advance, and I'm guessing that you would usually pay an escort or a massage parlor in advance.