Holiday Gathering Mandates in CA

I've lived in California all my life.

The oppression on businesses here is terrible.

Now they are coming for your personal life.

It will be interesting to see how the state votes this year.

The big question with all of these is who is going to enforce them?

@Founder. I've lived here all my life, short of 3 years in college, as well. For the longest time, the progressive things didn't matter too much to me. Now, it's gotten to a point that I will probably sell one property here and get one in a nearby state where I will stay over 6 months of the year to become a permanent resident of another state. They've pushed too far.

My worry is that a Biden Administration will try the same tactics on the entire country.

This is becoming one big circle jerk, don’t know if shutting stuff down is an answer but doing nothing isn’t working very well

Biden will. He has said he will. As for Founder's query about the vote, I think we will see a red tide in all the blue states where government overreach has been the response to the pandemic.

the government shutdowns are abuse of power. that decision should be up to the business owner.

^ I get it you want the government to have the power to help you but not tell you what to do, sounds like a typical teenager

25, you obviously haven't felt the brunt of government shutdowns economically. You've said as much in other posts. Try looking at it through a different set of eyes.

@founder
I am quite sympathetic and have said many times that the shutdown is an admission of defeat, but other measures like masking up are not even slightly repressive to a normal adult, when someone who has some knowledge about this type of problem says masks can save lives, a normal adult reaction is I’m willing, not the reaction of children you can’t tell me what to do.
Let’s get realistic and admit if we don’t get this disease under control we aren’t going to have much of an economy left.

25, I disagree with you. We are nearly 100% masked up in California. The schools are closed. Restaurants at 25%. Most people are staying home. Yet our positive numbers continue to rise, but our hospitalizations are at very low numbers, much, much lower than April and May.

This virus will NEVER be under control, just like the common cold. Our super-majority blue government is keeping us nice and safe. And it will be the death of California.

Please do not say you are sympathetic to the plight of California from the comfort of your red state Florida. You know nothing of what it is like to live here.

As a life long NPP voter, I can tell you that our state government is imposing restrictions on businesses here that will soon make California either revolt politically or loose many businesses. Why the Hi-Tech sector is staying here is beyond my comprehension. Perhaps they are in bed with our politicians.

Right now we have on our ballot Prop 22, which was put on the ballot by Lyft, Uber, et al. Look it up. It is to carve out an exemption for their companies from a law passed by our legislature.

Everybody views this from their particular zone of interest. I was born and raised in San Diego, a very conservative enclave overall being that it's a military town. Going away to the east coast for school and even traveling around before that enlightened me that different parts of the country operate in different ways and California sometimes is seen by others as very liberal.

On one hand, we must take measures to protect the public health. If business remain open but many are sick, that's a problem. I get that people need to make a living and many don't like to be told what to do. There are no easy answers. The question is always what do you need to do to keep yourself safe and not infringe on another's choice by your actions.

I think this question actually transcends political concerns even though some use it to gain political capital. Never been one to drink the public Kool-Aid on these matters. I do think decisions must be made out of real concern for human life and the future and at the same time, economic concerns have to be addressed. I don't envy any public servant who exhibits a humane outlook. Whichever side of things you attempt to champion there are going to be those who are upset.

Last thing: whatever's really going on, people are getting sick and too many are dying. So the last thing we need is someone lying about the situation and pretending "we've turned a corner."

@founder
What makes you able to say you disagree but doesn’t allow me to disagree, sorry but I haven’t questioned your motives or abilities don’t question mine, the Governor of our state is way underperforming just as much as your governor is overreaching
Feel free to move to any state that suits your needs better but my right to disagree with you isn’t up for a vote, I will retain that right as long as you do.
There is a middle but neither side has an interest in finding it, that center is the elusive sweet spot.
Getting harder and harder to find it.

I was born in Long Beach CA in 1942 and loved growing up in So Cal and enjoying the whole state. A company merger made it necessary to move to Georgia in 1988. At the time I had no idea what a blessing that was. I last visited in 1991 when I moved my elderly parents to Georgia so that I could take care of them. I have no desire to go back to CA for any reason.

I like how fucked up California is. It sucks for the sensible and rational people who live there, but it allows other states to hold them up as an example of unchecked government overreach and liberal policies run amok. Between them and New York, why anyone would vote democrat is unfathomable.

25, I never said you couldn't disagree with me.

I have no motives to question. I am questioning the motives of our state government.

As for moving to another state, many in California are doing just that.

===> "What makes you able to say you disagree but doesn’t allow me to disagree, sorry but I haven’t questioned your motives or abilities don’t question mine, the Governor of our state is way underperforming just as much as your governor is overreaching"

Baloney. The Governor of Florida is one of the few rational leaders in a see of people who are hyperventilating over young people getting a virus that is not deadly to them. This notion that we can control the virus is silly. It has not worked in CA and it has not worked in France, both places that have had ongoing mask mandates for several months now. By all means feel free to disagree with anyone, but have a rational basis for it rather than spewing sound bite nonsense because it feels like the right answer to you.

To think I almost posted this in the Front Room. I'm with others who have said that locking down is not going to make the virus go away. That being said, there are groups that need to take all the precautions they can to avoid exposure because it is deadly to elderly with pre-existing conditions and those with a depleted immune system for one reason or another.

What struck me about reading the order is the language used that included words like "must" and "prohibited". This mandate is just not enforceable and makes it look like overreach. Other times, these types of things have been worded as a "do your part to protect others" type of order.

This has gone on for almost 8 months now. A lot of people have Covid fatigue and are at the end of their ropes. There are carrot or stick approaches to get people to follow you. In this case, the state chose the stick and I think it will lead to a middle finger from the general public.

^ How many new infections today in Florida today I hear the new infections in the country are over 80,000, that's just today October 29 Hey Rick far from baloney, the state where the governor says testing causes infection cut the drama no one is hyperventilating on this side, that's basically you folks that oppose any reasonable measures to try and lower infection rates
I guess it's easier if you do nothing it makes you think you have no responsibilities, that's one way to politicize a pandemic.

In a "sea" that is, lol. I should also point out that several other countries with mask mandates are also experiencing case rises. The only way to truly contain the virus is to lock people down, but that has so many other devastating long-term consequences that it is just no longer considered a viable option in most places.

All infection rates mean is that the virus is spreading. You're focused on one thing to the exclusion of everything else. We know the virus is going to spread - it's a contagious virus after all. 😉

The question is WHO is getting it. Here in FL it is predominantly young people. That should not cause us nearly so much concern since young people don't generally suffer many ill effects.

The problem with hyperventilating types

...is that they don't want to hear about targeted approaches and rational tradeoffs. They just want to hear that they are protected by Big Daddy Government from this mean ol' virus no matter what the costs. It's a sad testament to the emotional fortitude of some elements of our population.

Tyranny woupd be putting private sector revenue above public health

@Rick who doesn't want to hear about targeted approaches or rational tradeoffs? That's the crux of the problem, no one in a position to implement those targeted approaches or rational tradeoffs is interested in doing any thing except avoiding responsibility. Pretending that we are rounding a corner isn't much of a solution as we've many more corners to round
It's about time you stopped using loaded language like hyperventilate, try some genuine truth, stop trying to spin this into a political issue, and demand the same of our leaders.

The key word in the CA proclamation is mandate. The governor is prohibiting people from celebrating the holidays in their usual tradition. That is simply wrong. If public health were the goal, then all forms of tobacco -especially cigarettes- would have been banned. All drugs and derivatives of opium would have been banned. Cannabis would never have been legalized. This is about making it "as painful as possible." Remember those words from Barack Hussein Obama? This is old, tried and true, Saul Alinsky tactics. But it is failing and backfiring, this time.

People in Michigan, CA, NY, and other democrat overrun states are seeing the economic success and recovery being enjoyed by the free states like FL, GA, and TX. Our states have fueled a record third quarter GDP growth. The democrat plan has failed, Biden's roadmap for COVID has failed. Even with the most high risk people staying at home, economic success is possible.

Europe and Asia have demonstrated thay lockdowns are useless. Americans are free, and we get tobmake stupid choices

... often to our detriment. But that's how freedom works. Everyone who comes to my new house to quote installing the backyard pool or remodeling the bathroom is given a surgical mask. Everyone who walks into our clinic Is given a mask. Uf you wont wear a mask you will be told to leave (politely).

It's a pandemic. People will get sick and die. That's no reason to destroy the entire economy. There is no rational argument to the contrary.

The tilt of tuscl seems to be to the right. I can only hope next Tuesday reflects the same.

25, do you ever post anything other than fluffy soundbites? Cases are resurging all over the world right now. France and Germany just locked down again, but many countries and U.S. states are choosing not to because of the myriad of other ills brought on by lockdowns. What precisely do you want DeSantis to do? Mask mandates are obviously not stopping it and probably never were - they just make panicky types feel a little better. So again, what would you like him to do other than lock down? Or is lockdown really what you want to say but are too passive aggressive to spit it out?

Try to be specific. If you have a brilliant solution that politicians around the world have not yet thought of, please share it.

@Founder. Here is an article from AP, not known to be right wing, describing your issue with the lockdowns.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/san-francisco…

100%, Founder.

If I could ask a favor of our CA brethren in City of Industry? Please tell all of your strippers and dancers that FL is open for business, and PLs here have money to burn. We promise to give them back when we're done (if there is anything left in CA to go back to).

RickiBoi you obviously want to argue about everything it's getting old and genuinely obvious to everyone here that you are a twat, I'm far from passive aggressive, and I really don't want to see another lockdown, that's just your spin on everything I wish I did have a reasonable solution, but I didn't run for Governor or any other elective office that's their responsibility, and they are doing near nothing except for trying to escape the blame, for their failures.

Gam +1. But let's be sure that the CA guys who normally spend on them don't follow the girls here. We have had enough of an infestation of those types from NY and IL over the last several years. It never ceases to amaze me how people flee these states to escape high taxes and onerous regulations just to resume voting for the same types who fucked up the places they just fled.

25, you're deflecting. If you think that DeSanstis is not doing enough, what PRECISELY do you think he should be doing? Or is your angst the utterly irrational type where you just need someone to blame for every bad event? 😀

gammanu95 - COI only has a population of 200 and I doubt many TUSCLers live there but I get the point.

So which one is it RickiBoi I'm deflecting, or I'm passive aggressive, you still are an argumentative twat, are you sure you're not a female you keep running on and on, just like a little twat.

Pandemic safety precautions will help you see the holidays next year.

If you want to die for corporate profits then.....

I'd like everyone reading this thread to scroll back and find the first instance of name calling and lack of civility.

Im starting to think Dr. Fauci has multiple handles on the board. He sure seems to be out sharing his thoughts everywhere these days.

And Colorado is probably on its way following in California’s footsteps. Already a 25% capacity. Sigh.

Thank goodness this capacity stuff is irrelevant on dayshift anyways. But even so. 😞

This is all a bad or at least surreal nightmare. Why humanity keeps going along with this nonsense is beyond me. Sometimes I think I died and went to some parallel universe.

To be clear, when I say nightmare I mean the response to this minor illnrss not the minor illness itself. The illness is such a joke that most people who supposedly get it don't even know they had it. Well over 99 percent of people who supposedly get it survive; even most elderly people survive. In fact this is such a non-event, it doesn't even justify being covered as a significant news story. The tyrannical, bizarre, and wholly unnecessary responses to the minor illness are the nightmare.

===> "I'd like everyone reading this thread to scroll back and find the first instance of name calling and lack of civility."

F, I'll save them the effort. It was me for sure. I admit that I was unable to completely contain my disgust in watching a grown ass man whine about not feeling protected by Daddy Government from an invisible contagious virus, especially when he is utterly incapable or unwilling to articulate what he thinks they could be doing better.

In the spirit of the continuing evolution of TUSCL I'll try to do a better job in the future of hiding my disdain for such emotional weaknesses and mental insufficiencies. Mea culpa. 😀

Masks, distancing, capacity limits, bar curfews, shutdowns.... all ways to SLOW the spread of the virus so less peeps don't get it all at the same time. Yes, of course, it was going to spread regardless; the restrictions and government overreach (in some cases) were their solution to quell the spread until a vaccine could be distributed.

At my workplace we've had 3 small outbreaks (all related to family get togethers BTW where no masks were worn and serving utensils were shared) and their personal stories were not good. Some of the infected were young and healthy otherwise and did get very ill. It's no joke.

I would take the vaccine right now if available what amazes me is the percentage of the population that says they won't take it at all.

Longball, people needto work and live. It's easy for us soft white collar types to sit in our living rooms and push electronic files around for a living, but everyone else needs to go to a job site to earn and eat. Kids need to go to school, especially low income kids. 7 months is too long to continue using methods that devastate those who are least at risk.

Younger people are not only at virtually no risk of dying, but the overwhelming majority of them are asymptomatic or only have very mild symptoms. Even if the CDC was not confirming this, anyone who is out and about in a state that has already had a lot of spread now knows many people who have had it. As someone who has been clubbing for months in FL and going to work each day, I've lost track of how many people have told me tht they've had it and it was relatively uneventful in almost every case.

The more we know about this virus the less afraid of it we become.

It's blatantly obvious that the joke of a "leadership" in this country don't have a clue of what they're doing and it's costing lives. By defying medical advice and giving out fake information they are just prolonging this nightmare. That leaves jurisdictions no choice but to extend restrictions.

Right Arigano. Because if they had just kept mask mandates and lockdowns at full steam in the first place then everything would be better now. Just like it is now in France, Italy, Germany, Spain, California, NYC...oops...er...wait a minute... 😉

I wouldn't say that we should be less afraid of it, rather that we should adjust our risk toleration and behaviors as it becomes better understood.

I’m unable to contain my disgust for stiff necked losers that think the whole world hangs on their stupid pronouncements, such a sense of entitlement coming from such a twat of course most here know it just is a cover up for a massive inferiority complex, evidenced by the fact that he refuses to allow anyone who disagrees with his line of bullshit the common courtesy of agreeing to disagree. RickiBoi you are a massive fraud and a genuine loser. The proof is in your own statements

^ you don't know how it would have gone here since the opportunity is now gone. You use Europe as an example which responded just like the US once restrictions were lifted and are paying the price. How about Asia? They have been very successful in containing the outbreak by maintaining a high level of mask wearing and social distancing, something that dumbasses here and in Europe refuse to do.

My comment directed at Rick, not 25

Arigano, Asia is Asia. I hate to point out the obvious, but there are a myriad of systematic, cultural and demographic differences between Asian countries and Western European/North American countries. What can be done to, and tolerated by, the population bases are very different. Heck, even in Western European countries that are being locked down again, there are protests emerging and lots of justified concern that the people will refuse to comply this time around.

We can howl at the moon about how countries with more individual freedoms and decentralized governments have not been as effective in keeping the virus controlled through various phases of draconian lockdowns, strict quarantines, universal mask mandates and aggressive contact tracing that have been implemented in Asian countries at different points in the virus cycle, but that is the price of living in a free society.

^ dumbass

25, while you continue to whine, maybe you could take a second to answer the question that has been asked twice now: What precisely do you think DeSantis should have done differently to control the virus? C'mon now, you can do it...😉

I imagine for anyone who has lost a loved one to covid the price of freedom is too high a cost.....

I've come to the conclusion that Dugan is just a Troll and a dumbass, would you like a chew toy that's prolly closer to your ability

25, I don't want to tell another man how to carry himself, but your inability to articulate a meaningful response in this thread and your childish name calling, which is unfortunately all too common for you when you get butt hurt, have really been a bad look for you.

No, he really cannot. Do not try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig. Let him have his temper tantrum, drink an ensure, and lay down for his morning nap. He'll forget about it by sundown.

^Dumbass

25, what would you do if you were governor of Florida right now? How would you handle the covid crisis?

@founder
Not sure, but what they have been doing isn't working, not really interested in fighting, and I believe from what I see myself that too many are going to these large functions, and ignoring the recommendations of the epidemiologists. I doubt that burying your head in the sand and denying the facts is helping.
I never claimed to have solutions, but what keeps being promulgated here is stupid, I also don't believe it's necessary to lock everyone down, but it might be necessary in some areas, I don't claim to know.
All I do know is I ran a business for many years finally sold out past September, out of 27 employees only 2 got infected, I paid them while they were out, mostly out of a sense of fairness, one thing for sure about our red state governor, he did very little to help workers the state unemployment web site crashed multiple times, maximum Florida Unemployment payout was $275. a fucking joke and the state made it difficult to get that, another issue was health testing when the employees that did get infected got sick it took ten days for them to get results, I needed to make them stay home so that was when I instituted the policy of promising everyone 75% of their salary if they were sick, last thing I needed was for desperate sick folks to come in and infect everyone else.
There is so much that is wrong with this government, you know it as well as I do, I'm sick and tired of folks making stupid pronouncements here on this website that are just plain dangerous, Dugan is one of them, here's a guy boasts about serial sexual encounters while having a wife and three daughters at home, it doesn't get more dirt baggy than that, if you care about other people in your life maybe it's not a bad idea to modify your behavior at least, until this crisis ends.
Does that answer your question ? Because that's the best I have.

One other thing I highly resent that dirt bag twisting my words, both Dugan and Icey both do that incessantly, you are aware of my circumstances I don't need Government help, nor am I cowering in my basement, but I'm not going to hang out in a strip club bar, until there is a positive resolution as I am old enough that I prefer to avoid added complications to my life, I have not told anyone what to do, except if you are going to be around me wear a mask

Bitch, bitchbitchbitch, bitch, biiiiiitch. C'mon, man! Don't ask a demented old fool to solve a global pandemic, that's just mean, lol. Yeah, 25iq is off ignore. I don't want to miss his confusion and delusion as 2020 delivers the final, crushing blow.

Seriously though, that demented, flip-flopping, delusional old fool is utterly unable to type a coherent thought, much less address a global pandemic; and Joe Biden is no more competent nor cogent than him. TUSCL know this, and the American voter knows this.

25, your "solution" sounds more reasonable than what our California governor put out. From what I hear you saying is that you want people to be responsible for themselves, stay home when sick, be considerate of others. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that what all of us "twats" have been saying all along? Let us live our lives and it will all work out?

July 20, 2020 Dugan: “I’ve had enough. This is the last thread re COVID that I post in.”

https://tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=7291…

Let COVID have the win. Determine your personal level of risk and risk tolerance. Set your boundaries and plan your activities accordingly. Stay informed of changes and emerging information, adapt accordingly.

Not unrelated: scientists have determined that 1)immunity from a strain you recovered from lasts only a few weeks, 2) the second European wave is a different strain than the first, a strain which mutated in a group of farm workers in SE Spain. There will be no panacea or universally effective vaccine. Be sure to thank the Chinese Communist Party by voting for Donald Trump and keeping their puppet Joe Biden out of the White House.

F, what he actually said is that FL's Governor has failed because the virus keeps spreading. He has also expressed an acceptance of at least targeted lockdowns as a means of control. He is hardly a fan of the personal responsibility approach.

that is what I have been saying, I reserved the use of twat for the like of Dugan, and no it really isn't what many have been saying, what many are saying is you have no right to tell us what to do, that's where we disagree, if you can't find it in your heart to be considerate of others, when there is a national emergency we need to force compliance of certain behaviors, I am willing to live and let live, but be aware, the right you have to swing your arms ends, before there is contact with my jaw. if some can't respect that than a mandate is reasonable and needs to be enforced.

@founder the "twat" again makes my point for me, he should shut the fuck up and stop putting words in my mouth.

25, as I told you months ago, I actually respected what you did for your employees. But you are criticizing the Governor of FL for doing the very things that made your generosity possible, which is mind boggling to me. If he had kept lockdowns in place longer or implemented multiple starts and stops, you might not have had a business to sell or from which to pay your employees. Same if he had used the more expansive definition of "non-essential" applied in places like NY and IL for a number of months.

And contrary to your characterization of me as a reckless cowboy, I am anything but. I have watched every single press conference held by DeSansis on COVID and am on the state health department site every single day looking at updated case counts and positivity rates not only in my state, but in the specific counties that we live and shop in. Any decisions I make about acceptable risk are informed by these stats as well as CDC guidance on mortality rates.

What I AM is a guy who is concerned about a lot more than just himself. I have children who need to be educated. I am involved on the front line in charities that provide goods to at risk needy families who absolutely MUST work to survive. I share office facilities with a lot of good people who run businesses which depend upon an interactive economy. I have seen what even FL's light lockdown did to all of them and simply can't imagine what is must be like for those enduring more drastic control measures. THIS is why I am a supporter of DeSantis' balanced approach of protecting the vulnerable and allowing the young to keep living.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/28/politics/…

March 28, 2020

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Saturday in an interview with CNN that he didn't believe a possible New York quarantine was legal and that it would be a "federal declaration of war" after President Donald Trump said he was considering such a tactic for the New York metro area as US coronavirus cases increase.

"It would be chaos and mayhem," Cuomo told CNN's Ana Cabrera. "It's totally opposite everything he's been saying. I don't think it is plausible. I don't think it is legal."

More than 52,000 of the nation's over 113,000 coronavirus cases have been reported in New York state alone. And officials are forecasting that the apex of the pandemic there is still 14 to 21 days away.

"This would be a federal declaration of war on states," Cuomo said, adding that he doesn't think the President is looking to start a war with states.

Dugan yet you twist every post into a big fuck'n deal, I refuse to get drawn into your compulsive overwrought, drama's any longer, I responded to founder because unlike you he does have an appetite for compromise, you just want to argue and insult at every turn, and I really have had enough of your drama, you have become an annoyance at best.