OT : ID REFUSALS/FIRST AMENDMENT

According to US law if you are stopped by Leo while driving in a vehicle you are required to provide ID upon a request

This guy was acting like an asshole. Driving is a state law issue, not federal, but Georgia law requires you to show your driver's license if stopped while operating a vehicle. I would guess that most if not all states require it too. But other than identifying yourself, you are not required to answer any questions. That's not a First Amendment issue though. It's based on your Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. This guy was stopped by a park ranger, though. I'm not sure if he was in a State Park or a U.S. park. I think state driving laws are enforced on federal property.

London, the courts have upheld that we can be required to produce ID if we are driving or a passenger on an airplane. The theory holds that these are voluntary activities that we can avoid if we so choose.

Additionally, about 24 states have various forms of "stop and frisk' laws. But in order to do so, the cops have to have reasonable suspicion that we committed, are committing or are about to commit a crime. Under these circumstances, the police can arrest the suspect for refusing to identify himself.

But with all of that said, we do not have a requirement to show papers or other ID in everyday circumstances where no clear evidence of a crime is evident.

Police here are sometimes referred to as the "thin blue line," a reference to the common blue uniform color for US police. The blue line on the flag is a show of support for police. Technically, I think it violates the U.S. flag code which prohibits defacing or altering the flag. The flag code is law, but not really enforceable.

By the way, when I said the guy being an asshole, I was referring to the driver, not the cop. If the driver had an obscured vehicle tag, that is a valid basis for a stop and he could have been ticketed. It seems to me that the cop was nothing but courteous and professional.

As others have said, I'm pretty sure all states have a requirement to produce drivers license and registration while operating a vehicle, and there is a federal law requiring it on planes for all passengers. So, in this case the guy was wrong. Once he's stopped, he has to produce ID. It's a little unclear if the officer had a valid reason to stop him, but that's a more complex issue.

As far as "why" they ask, there's a bunch of reasons. I know in at least a few departments, it's department policy or at least a heavily stressed point in training. One of the reasons it's that way is because it provides a good way to check for things like outstanding warrants or criminal history. Cops love to "get lucky" pulling someone over for an expired tag and "get a criminal off the street" who has a warrant for something else. Along the same lines, they're often looking for glimpses of anything else. For example, if they see paraphernalia while the person is producing ID and registration, they'll escalate to a search & it's the same thing; an expired tag turns into a drug arrest because someone had a little weed in their car.

Stop and frisk is based on the officer's safety, not whether or not they "suspect or guess" the person has committed a crime. If they suspect a crime they can ask for ID and make inquiry, which requires no response. If they fear for their safety they can pat you down, but for no other reason.

A few years ago I got pulled over for speeding. It was more than 20 mph over the limit which, in NJ, is the threshold for a really bad ticket. I had forgotten my wallet at home and didn't have ID. The cop was a nice guy. Registration and insurance were in the glove box so he looked at that. Asked me a few questions until he was comfortable that I was the owner of the car. Looked me up in the computer and saw that I had a clean driving record. Gave me a ticket for "failure to produce documentation" or some such thing. Minimal fine and no points. He let me go on the speeding.

Conversely, I got stopped once for making a right on red where it was posted "No Turn On Red." Okay, I did it so no complaints. Gave him the license, registration and insurance. He comes back like 10 min later and asks, "Do you have insurance on this vehicle?" Didn't really know what he was talking about since I gave him the insurance card. Turns out a month or two before, my wife and I got our annual updated insurance cards in the mail, and I had mistakenly put them in the wrong cars. So the card had her name (same last name, and very unusual last name at that) and her vehicle on it. Oops, my bad. I showed him like 3 years worth of expired insurance cards which were still in my little glove box folder. My car, my name, and the exact same policy number as the one he was holding in his hand. Politely explained the mix-up to him. He tickets me for the red light, and a second one for "operating an uninsured vehicle." I know the asshole looked it up or called it in from his cop car. He knew damn well I was insured. (He must have because he let me drive away.) Should have given me a "document" violation, but no... I had to spend half a day in court to avoid a massive fine and probable license suspension.

Like everybody else, some cops are cool and some are jerkoffs.

I drive a WRX and as such I get stopped 5-10 times a year, based on car. Labor day 2019, on the way to the Spa at Saratoga to play the ponies and on rural roads. Go by a county fair and of course the cop eyeballs the car as we drive by. I tell wife we're getting stopped, but after 10 minutes she feels we are free ...until I am lit up. Car is insured and inspected, but the registration expired the day before. Cop apologizes for stopping me (they always are when they see an old man and not a 19 year old kid behind the wheel), but they have to impound the car and arrest me, making my 60 year old wife walk to Greenfield some 27 miles away I ask? Well, if you go on line and re-register I can let you go. Great .... Colrain MA has no internet and no 4g, or 3g. Sgt, comes by. They chat. Put me (Uncuffed) in the back seat of the cruiser and drive me to a mountaintop in another town 15 miles away where I get internet, reregister the car and am let go. Typical of about 33 of my last 35 stops.

^^ Drop the mike on that one skibum.

*mic

What is it about the WRX that makes them hot targets for pull-overs?

The civilian seems like one of those anti-authority looking-for-a-fight types - as others mentioned, the cop was professional and respectful from the get-go; it was the civilian that was antagonistic from the beginning.

IMO, it's usually best in life to examine things in context vs absolutes - this civilian is picking an unproductive fight IMO and comes across as one of those Timothy McVeigh anti-government types - in context, asking for ID is a good thing IMO; if one is law-abiding and has everything up-to-date as required by the law, then 99.9% of the time the only bad outcome is that you wasted some time - in context, if by asking for ID it means potentially apprehending people that shouldn't be on the streets, then that's a good thing,

I do feel that sometimes they give out too many tickets for minor infractions - I'm all for ticketing someone committing a serious traffic infraction putting others at risk; but it seems many things can be let go and they are things that cops often do themselves when they drive their cop-cars - my conspiracy-theory side also wonders if excessive ticketing is something that comes from the top including the politicians of the city as a revenue stream.

Are cops not required to provide a badge number when asked? If so, why not?

Usually if you get a ticket the officer's name is on the ticket

@londonguy

I think the video shows a perfect example of how the 1% in America keeps tricking Americans into fighting among ourselves while they rob us blind.

The police was created to protect and to serve the 1% from the rest of the people, they are the “Uncle Tom” of today, regardless or race.

The Thin Blue Line Flag is yet another example of how the system created by the 1% fosters this ‘us versus them’ mentality. That is the reason they have it in their uniform.

When I ride my Harley Chopper, I always have everything “legal”, insurance, registration, Identification with no warrants, etc.

And follow the recommendations of police friends, that indicate that nowadays the police officers are scared, because they can be killed more now than before, so you have to be careful when dealing with them.

So I always behave like a gentleman with everyone, police included. I answer politely and show the requested basic information and I have never received a ticket. Just been told thank you.

If you ever are in a situation where the police ask you questions trying to incriminate you, your answer should be, no matter what: “I need to talk to my attorney”.

Most likely they will let you go. Because that are just “fishing”, to see if someone bites.

Again Cops are part of the 99% but the fact that they “serve and protect” the 1%ers makes them, like I say before, arguably commit treasonous acts against 99%, the American People.