If I were to go into a club where I'm not known, find a dancer who I like (I like young and sweet looking), get to know her a little, then ask her if she would be interested in letting me hire her for some OTC one-on-one entertainment, what do you guess the odds would be of her showing any interest? And would the odds increase if I spent several visits with her first?
Depends on the club, the patron, the girl, the time, the date, the context, everything. There's no one answer. First, it's gotta be POSSIBLE. Depending on club, bouncers, setting, etc., it might be perceived not to be. Beyond that, I think the most important factor would be, how much money for what services? Next most likely would be, how trusting is she relative to how trustworthy (not a cop) do you seem, and how well can you play that social dynamic to your advantage?
I would say spending a few times with her would certainly not hurt. As for her interest, visiting her a few times will almost certainly answer that question.
FONDL: I never ask. If she trusts you (and sometimes even if she is just stupid) she will approach you. In general the odds get better as you become a regular-but not always. I have a young ladies card in my wallet right now who I met about a month ago at one of my regular clubs. She handed me her card after our first ever dances together and told me to give her a call. I probably won't but I was amazed at how fast she gave up her info. On later visits she seemed concerned that I was so friendly with the house mother and managers at the club....
The thing to remember is that dancers who do OTC do it for money. They all have a different selection process but, if they want your money, they won't be shy about letting you know they are available one way or another.
It really all depends on the dancer. I've met some dancers who asked me out the first night they saw me. I did ask a couple of dancers out as in date when I was a newbie and was wondering if they went out with customers. Someone told me no but I had to learn the hard way. The second dancer I asked said ok. I was ticked off when I found out she wanted money just for her time. In spite of a rocky start I seemed to develop a relationship with her. Just think very pretty golddigger. Kind of like a high maintenance automobile. Always giving problems but she sure did look good. Single, nice tits, around 20 or 21 years old, no kids, no drug problem, very fit with a nice figure. I thought it was hilarious one time when she threatened to call up all my friends and family to tell them I was seeing her as if that was a threat to me. I don't remember what she was pissed off about that particular time.
It's always possible. I don't know about the young and sweet part, but I've had a couple OTC experiences where I just met the girl that night. One thing that may work is if you say you're from out of town and there on business, or you're passing thru the area. I'm sure they were probably glad its some out-of-town guy at the time when we met OTC.
Here's the scenario I was thinking about. Say I'm a laid-back friendly non-threatening older retired guy living alone in a fairly nice home in an area where there are a lot of mid-level (not too fancy, not too seedy)strip clubs near by. I'm looking to hire an attractive young girl mainly for companionship to hang out with me (eg. drinks, dinner) and possibly provide some adult entertainment on a regular basis, say weekly. I'm assuming there are a lot of dancers in the area who aren't making as much money as they'd like (the clubs never seem very busy) and who wouldn't mind supplementing their income if they could do so easily. And I'm willing to pay a lot more than they'd make at Walmart but less than they'd make working for an escort service. What are the odds of me finding someone who is interested? And how do I go about it?
FONDL: You just asked the same question again using different words. The odds are probably not that great because it isn't the venue where one should assume that such services are available, even if they sometimes are.
If they are interested they will approach you. If you want to be proactive about this type of arrangement I would suggest you do what I did: Turn to escorts. I know all of the arguments about buying a pig in a poke etc. but in the internet age it really isn't that big of a gamble. There are review boards and web sites that focus on promoting women who WANT to date you for money. Now, I'm not saying you will never find such an arrangement with a dancer but the odds, in my opinion, are against it.
BTW, from my experience, the escort route almost always turns out to be cheaper and with less drama. Good luck in your quest...
Not so theoretical afterall, I see. It sounds like you hope a bourgeois image and ambivalence towards sex will keep the price down. It might help get a girl to agree to OTC, but I don't think she's going to give you cut rate. I just don't see a girl agreeing to that upfront. Only if you luck into some ambiguous arrangement with a girl who has conflicted feelings aout OTC, where you "hang out as friends", then slip her some money under the guise of "helping her out". She might be led on by the expectation of a big payday. But I doubt if that's something you can set out to find.
Hey this is really funny. Guys, it's theoretical, I have no intention of doing this. I'm not in the situation that I described, I couldn't do this even if I wanted to. I'm not looking for a cut-rate hooker or someone to help. It's all just a fantasy.
Let me ask a different but related question. Do you guys think that girls are likely to be more receptive to some sort of OTC arrangement if they work in a club that isn't very busy and they aren't making much money? Seems to me the rational answer is yes, but I haven't met too many rational dancers.
Incidently, I'm not so sure that hookers make all that much, except maybe the very top ones. Around here a young escort will visit your house for $200 an hour, and she only gets to keep half of that. Which means that if you inclcude her travel time she's only making around $50 an hour. If I were the theoretical guy in the original question I'd probably be willing to pay at least that, so it isn't cut rate at all to the girl. Seems to me some strippers are making a whole lot less than that, at least on week days.
FONDL: Escorts come in all sorts of price ranges. Girls who work that cheap and give up half are probably not going to be very good at their job. Most of the better agency girls pay about a third to their agency and keep the rest-$300 to $400 an hour. A smart independent lady will charge the same rate and keep all of it. Of course there are expenses involved but that holds true in any field. I know girls who do one, the other or both. The money is better in escorting but sometimes you need a break from boinking guys for money and dancing there to take up the slack. Most of the girls I know who do both prefer escorting.
Actually, in my experience, girls who charge less are usually more enthusiastic and less jaded, than girls who are the upper end of the princess-on-the-internet price-range. There are women who give you 4 times as much at $400 than you would get at $100; but most of the women who charge $400 give you about 2/3 of what you could get at $250, in my experience. In attitude, specific services, time, and general pleasantness to be around. When they value themselves very high, in terms of their hourly rate, they also over-value their worth relative to toher humans, and don't often behave as though I'm of as much value as they are.
I think the original idea is possible but not necessarily likely. Perhaps if FONDL was a good customer in the club and the dancer didn't mind a little extra income without doing too much for it. I think I could arrange it for free with some dancers but I believe those girls would want to do more than just eat the food. I currently know of two dancers who expressed an interest in spending time with me away from the clubs. You might call me crazy but as my first encounter with one dancer outside the club, I'm thinking about going to a nearby waterpark with her. I suggested she would already have her flotation devices :) two big ones (0)(0) up top. :)
Am I some weird exception here? I have never gone the escort route. That just seems too impersonal to me. You just dial a number and sex is delivered to your door. But you have little choice on who shows up. I would rather pick my date at a club. In the last 10 years the most that I have paid for full service OTC is $150 and it has been as low as $100.
Shadow: you're bragging. You must have Russel Crowe's face and James Bond's body and automobile, for the prices to be that low for you. Is the convenience there, or are you getting to know these women over weeks or months?
Shadowcat, I've never gone the escort route either, it doesn't interest me and probably never will. But I don't see anything wrong with it if casual sex is your objective, that just isn't what I'm looking for.
But to get back to the original question, I don't fit the profile because I don't live alone and probably never will. If I did, I'd probably try all the massage places in my area first to see if I could find a special lady who I really liked - I've found that I really enjoy a good massage from a pretty lady. Next I'd probably also become a regular at a nearby inexpensive neighborhood strip club and try to find a club buddy. But I wouldn't be in any hurry to look for an OTC arrangement, having a club buddy would pretty much satisfy my interest in companionship.
I've discovered that I enjoy intimacy (which I define as two souls joining together) more than sex (two bodies joining together). Maybe it's an age thing but I think I've always felt that way. I'm guessing that makes me unique here.
Bookguy: Yes, I am bragging and maybe more than most guys on here do but I am not bull shitting. When I read a review and some guy says "I got 3 lap dances for $100 and I could touch her anywhere except the kitty." Well great. For $100 I could have got 10 lap dances and my hand under the thong with at least half of them.I don't seek out dancers for OTC expierences. I let them come to me.
I used to have a regular at the Memphis PP. I didn't have her cell phone number but any time we were at the club at the same time, we wound up back at my hotel room for $150. The last time I saw her, she shows up with her girl friend. They were car pooling. She whispers in my ear, "don't worry, this is not going to cost you more." After a drink and some laughes, the friend says "should I go wait in the car?" My favorite says "No, I want you to join us." She did.
More recently, before the crack whore, as I was checking out of my hotel, I ran into another favorite, who was also staying at the hotel. We had an afternoon delight at 11:00 A.M. for $100 but she had to give her brother $20 to get lost at the club so that we could be alone. Later that afternoon we met up in the club. She introduced me to her brother, who was visiting from Florida. Later she got me all hot and bothered and I did another stupid thing. After a BBBJ, I let her slip it into her pussy without protection. Total cost. $40 for 4 lap dances. Bull shit? Ask "Pop". He was directly across from me with another favorite of mine. A while later I asked Pop, on here, if he knew that we were fucking. His reply, "I couldn't see but I knew that something was going on."
Guys like Pop, Shekitout, and Bones know that I am not bull shitting. They have been there and seen it. So how do I get this kind of mileage for these prices? Weeks, months and even years gaining their trust by being honest and entertaining them. They don't call me the "Candyman" for nothing.
Look BG: I promised to be nice on here but if you and Yoda whant to mock me, I can dish it out too. Maybe if you consintrated on getting a job, so that you would actually have some money to spend in a strip club, you could actually share some expierences with us. Rather than deep shit about economics and politics.that you so longly spew. I have news for you. I have a job. and a damn good paying one. I have views on economics and politics too but this is not the board for that. Duh! I can afford to spend a lot more in strip clubs than I do but I don't need to. Come on down. I'll pay for your bus ticket.
Shadowcat: I know you've never used an escort but honestly, it's nothing like the way you think it is. I have complete control over who shows up in my hotel or who I visit. The fact of the matter is I am hiring a woman with posted reviews that I know is going to deliver what I am looking for. Escorts are not very different from dancers. The good ones stay busy by knowing what guys like and want. There is no more mystery to how she is going to perform than how your favorite OTC stripper is going to perform. In short, you don't know until she gets there!
BG: My experience has been very different than yours but a lot also depends on where you live. In my area the going rate for a GFE lady is around $300. Most girls who charge less are cut rate street hookers who are just using the internet instead of strolling. I've visited other parts of the country where the going rate for a good GFE was lower. Sorry, but I don't really believe in the whole concept of the woman "overvaluing" herself. it's her body and it's worth whatever she thinks it is worth.
Yoda: you're right, the "over-valuing" was a bad usage choice of mine. But a woman's behavior can under-value a fellow human. The princesses in the clubs who treat their customers as though those men don't deserve respect, for example, are guilty of this.
OK,FONDL, I'll answer your hypo? with a somewhat real analogy. Firstly, Walmart worker makes roughly $7 or so/hr. The "going" rate for escorts seems to average roughly $300/hr. So, average escort makes about 40 times what Walmart worker makes. I'm guessing that the rate you have in mind for your "companion/escort" falls between $10-$20/hr. Meanwhile, in Japan(a country that has made impressive industrial strides last half century), average CEO makes about 10 times what LOWEST PAID Worker makes(This ratio is roughly what 4-star Admiral/or General makes over lower tier enlisted ranks). Contrast this to what average US CEO makes: 411 times what AVERAGE(Not lowest paid) worker makes(2005 data).Now, FONDL, put yourself in the shoes of an executive recruiter. You are searching for an outside CEO for your Fortune 500 company. You tell the "headhunter", that you're willing to offer prospective CEO a total compensation package equal to 10-20 times what your average employee makes(clue-will be south of $1M). How do you think executive "headhunter" would respond? I'm willing to bet that responses from headhunter, and "prospective escort" would be remarkably similar.
BG:Self respect is something you are born with. Being treated badly by another person, male or female, is a drag but they are the ones with the problem. People can only make you feel undervalued if YOU allow them to.
I don't bother with women or men who don't treat others with common human decency. From where I stand, the decision is ours, not theirs...
Minnow, I don't think your analogy makes any sense, you're comparing very different things. But that aside, let me respond to it any way.
As I said before, where I live there are plenty of escort services that charge $200 an hour, of which the girl gets maybe half. Plus she has travel time, so she has to work maybe 2+ hours to earn one hour's pay, so at best she's making $50 an hour. Which is still pretty good compared with what a lot of strippers make on a week night. I hadn't really given much thought to how much I might be willing to pay my theoretical friend, but $50 per hour seems pretty reasonable.
Yoda makes the point that a lot of successful independent escorts charge $300 per hour (ignoring the sizeable expenses that they have - eg. advertising, security, booking appointments, hotel rooms, hair and nails etc.) But I look at that the same way as I look at strippers: there are the seasoned pros who work very hard at it and make a lot of money, and there are the young amateurs who don't do either. And whether you're talking escorts or strippers, I'd prefer the young amateurs.
I'll back up shadowcat. Been with him twice at his favorite clubs and all the dancers know his limits, monetarily and other ways. Being a regular, he is one up on most of us at the club. I envy his status myself, but also have been able to acquire good dances and cheap prices there also.
Bones: Thanks for the compliment but you were also a hit the last time you were there. Pop said that A----- is back from Myrtle Beach and was asking about you. Anything you want me to tell her? From your description of the baby maker, I do think you know who I was talking about. Answer your emails!
FONDL: We're on different pages- I was assuming that you desired some "C&C", "D&D" multiple nights/wk like 3-5, not 1. In that case, plan makes more "sense". However, if 1 nite w. you is good, then 1 or 2 nites w. someone else will be better. "Tradeoffs" can work both ways---
shadowcat - Just tell A that I miss her HOT HOT dances in the VIP lounge.
Am currently in TN/MS. Am non-revving back to OH tomorrow at 9:10AM, via IAH. Will answer emails upon return.
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The thing to remember is that dancers who do OTC do it for money. They all have a different selection process but, if they want your money, they won't be shy about letting you know they are available one way or another.
If they are interested they will approach you. If you want to be proactive about this type of arrangement I would suggest you do what I did: Turn to escorts. I know all of the arguments about buying a pig in a poke etc. but in the internet age it really isn't that big of a gamble. There are review boards and web sites that focus on promoting women who WANT to date you for money. Now, I'm not saying you will never find such an arrangement with a dancer but the odds, in my opinion, are against it.
BTW, from my experience, the escort route almost always turns out to be cheaper and with less drama. Good luck in your quest...
Well, one thing for sure, don't get married!
Let me ask a different but related question. Do you guys think that girls are likely to be more receptive to some sort of OTC arrangement if they work in a club that isn't very busy and they aren't making much money? Seems to me the rational answer is yes, but I haven't met too many rational dancers.
Incidently, I'm not so sure that hookers make all that much, except maybe the very top ones. Around here a young escort will visit your house for $200 an hour, and she only gets to keep half of that. Which means that if you inclcude her travel time she's only making around $50 an hour. If I were the theoretical guy in the original question I'd probably be willing to pay at least that, so it isn't cut rate at all to the girl. Seems to me some strippers are making a whole lot less than that, at least on week days.
But to get back to the original question, I don't fit the profile because I don't live alone and probably never will. If I did, I'd probably try all the massage places in my area first to see if I could find a special lady who I really liked - I've found that I really enjoy a good massage from a pretty lady. Next I'd probably also become a regular at a nearby inexpensive neighborhood strip club and try to find a club buddy. But I wouldn't be in any hurry to look for an OTC arrangement, having a club buddy would pretty much satisfy my interest in companionship.
I've discovered that I enjoy intimacy (which I define as two souls joining together) more than sex (two bodies joining together). Maybe it's an age thing but I think I've always felt that way. I'm guessing that makes me unique here.
I used to have a regular at the Memphis PP. I didn't have her cell phone number but any time we were at the club at the same time, we wound up back at my hotel room for $150. The last time I saw her, she shows up with her girl friend. They were car pooling. She whispers in my ear, "don't worry, this is not going to cost you more." After a drink and some laughes, the friend says "should I go wait in the car?" My favorite says "No, I want you to join us." She did.
More recently, before the crack whore, as I was checking out of my hotel, I ran into another favorite, who was also staying at the hotel. We had an afternoon delight at 11:00 A.M. for $100 but she had to give her brother $20 to get lost at the club so that we could be alone. Later that afternoon we met up in the club. She introduced me to her brother, who was visiting from Florida. Later she got me all hot and bothered and I did another stupid thing. After a BBBJ, I let her slip it into her pussy without protection. Total cost. $40 for 4 lap dances. Bull shit? Ask "Pop". He was directly across from me with another favorite of mine. A while later I asked Pop, on here, if he knew that we were fucking. His reply, "I couldn't see but I knew that something was going on."
Guys like Pop, Shekitout, and Bones know that I am not bull shitting. They have been there and seen it. So how do I get this kind of mileage for these prices? Weeks, months and even years gaining their trust by being honest and entertaining them. They don't call me the "Candyman" for nothing.
I don't bother with women or men who don't treat others with common human decency. From where I stand, the decision is ours, not theirs...
As I said before, where I live there are plenty of escort services that charge $200 an hour, of which the girl gets maybe half. Plus she has travel time, so she has to work maybe 2+ hours to earn one hour's pay, so at best she's making $50 an hour. Which is still pretty good compared with what a lot of strippers make on a week night. I hadn't really given much thought to how much I might be willing to pay my theoretical friend, but $50 per hour seems pretty reasonable.
Yoda makes the point that a lot of successful independent escorts charge $300 per hour (ignoring the sizeable expenses that they have - eg. advertising, security, booking appointments, hotel rooms, hair and nails etc.) But I look at that the same way as I look at strippers: there are the seasoned pros who work very hard at it and make a lot of money, and there are the young amateurs who don't do either. And whether you're talking escorts or strippers, I'd prefer the young amateurs.
Am currently in TN/MS. Am non-revving back to OH tomorrow at 9:10AM, via IAH. Will answer emails upon return.