tuscl

"Black" Stripclubs - The Customer & Dancer have an understanding

Friday, May 4, 2007 12:09 AM
Thinking about some of the black striclubs I have been to in the past & the one I recently visited I think that the dancers know not to try & cheat the customer out of his money. There is a difference between cheating the customer and hustling. All of them try to hustle you(Get you to spend more money)but cheating you is when you pay for something and don't get your money's worth. For instance, I have never been asked by a dancer at a black stripclub to pay for the dance before the song starts. Why is this you may ask? My theory is that alot of the black guys that come into these clubs have the "Alpha male" personality. If a dancer was to ask one of these "Thug" brothers to pay for the dance up front, or start a song late she would probably get cursed out. I am not saying you should curse anybody out(unlessen they curse you)but you have to let them know you are not a push over. No I don't consider myself an Alpha male or a Thug( I have paid for dances upfront before) but sometimes you have to put people in their place. It may also be that the club knows what the average black male likes that comes into their establishment. Even though they have signs that may say NO Touching!! Alot of the customers still do some type of touching, even if it is no more than leaning their body's across the tip rail for the dancer to rub up against. The point of my post is not necessarily to point out how black stripclubs have more contact than mixed or White clubs. It is to point out that when you go into a stripclub you aren't just representing yourself but all the other males that come into the establishment. If 60% or 70% of the males come into a club and are too nice and let the club and dancers have their way with their time and money then that's how they will treat everyone that comes into the place. To me it seems like that at the white stripclubs Mangement & the dancers have the upper hand. It is as if they are saying " You can come to our establishment and play with us, but we will always have the upperhand on you." At the predominately black clubs it seems to be a more even playground. You give me what I want(Money) and You can get what you want.(Good contact dances). This isn't meant to sound racist but I am just going by what I have experienced.

16 comments

  • evilcyn
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    17 years ago
    As a dancer I have only worked in white or mixed clubs.. I would love an environment where girls are not trying to cheat and or just right out lie to make their money...I love dancing but hate watching head games that go on between dancing.. It is up to guys not to be played by dancers, as much as it is up to dancers to be honest with their jobs..
  • shadowcat
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    17 years ago
    In all my years of strip clubbing, I have only onced been asked for payment upfront. It was at my favorite club and she was black. I told some of my favorites about it and they said that with some dancers you only have get burned once. Most of them have said that they had been burned 1 or more times and by white guys. Never saw her again after that night, untill a few months ago, I was visiting Oasis Good Time Emporium in Atlanta with Trogangreg and I ran into her. The only reason that I recognized her bcause of her stage name. "Queen". Ugh.
  • chandler
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    17 years ago
    Customers don't seem to understand how much power they have at most white and mixed clubs. Management doesn't necessarily consider dancers to be their allies with customers as the common competitor for the upper hand. In a dispute with a cheating dancer, they're far more likely to side with their customer, unless it's a flat-out ripoff joint. I do believe it should always be up to the dancer to set whatever level of contact she's comfortable with, and for us to take it or leave it. I agree, however, that whipped customers who lack the backbone to refuse to go along with crappy treatment make it more difficult for the rest of us.
  • FONDL
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    17 years ago
    I agree with Chandler, clubs and dancers only have the upper hand it you give it to them. If you don't like the way you are treated, leave and go somewhere else. Why is that such a difficult concept for some people to grasp?
  • chandler
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    17 years ago
    Except that I don't see any reason to go somewhere else. Any club can have a dancer who'll try to cheat you. It doesn't affect you unless you go along with it. The second you realize that you're dealing with a cheat, bail out and don't give her any money she hasn't earned. Otherwise, you're encouraging her to repeat the same fraud with other patrons.
  • Book Guy
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    17 years ago
    I frankly haven't found the up-front-payment system to be a mainstay of African-American clubs. In fact, when I'm at those places (and I'm a pasty white guy), especially the ones in "ghetto" areas or with lower-class clientele, generally there's an "understanding" that I will probably pay MORE than the average customer, so there's less fear of me sneaking out without tipping rather than more. I do find that there is a cultural difference between "typical suburban white" clubs and "typical ghetto African-American" clubs, of course. The expectations are different, the attitudes, everything. Why do some hot-looking black women choose to dance at predominantly white clubs? Do they get huffy if you expect them to provide extras "merely because" their skin is darker? Why do some wealthy black men choose to patronize predominantly white clubs? Why do most "ghetto" clubs play hip-hop music? Why do most young annoying white males who affect "ghetto" clothing go to white clubs instead of going to Af-Am clubs and GETTING THE SHIT BEATEN OUT OF THEM? :) I agree, you can generalize about groups. The 60-70% does categorize the overall feel of a club. TUSCL helps us guys to "drive" that feel in the direction that we want it to go, but many places can't be driven by us TUSCL-ites simply because the remainder of the clientele is out of our control. I like Af-Am women, especially the more muscular ones (the gene-pool here in North America DOES hearken back to slavery's days of genetic selectivity for manual laborers, don't forget it). I'm kinda turned on by Venus and Serena Williams, for example -- they're a bit too butch for me; but a girl who happened to be their sister but didn't do professional athletics would pretty much be my body-shape ideal, I'd guess. So, sometimes I get a hankerin' for girls at Af-Am clubs. Doesn't mean the skin color is a turn-on for me.
  • Jpac73
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    17 years ago
    BookGuy I can see where you are turned on by Serena as far as her shape but I don't find Venus attractive at all. She is too thin and not particulary all that attractive. However, I do agree with everything else you said. The part about White guys who act "Ghetto" not going to all black clubs is so true. You might see one of them with a group of black guys but never in a group by themselves.
  • FONDL
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    17 years ago
    I don't think the stuff here has anything to do with race, I think it's mainly a function of type of club. A lot of predominantly white clubs are fancy GCs or GC wanna-be's, where you're more likely to encounter the kind of annoying crap like up-front payment. All the predominantly black clubs that I'm familiar with are smaller local dives. But you don't find this stuff in predominantly white dives either.
  • Book Guy
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    17 years ago
    Yeah, but in the USA groups distinguished by means of "culture" and "race" and social "class" (for lack of better terms) quite often overlap.
  • FONDL
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    17 years ago
    Book Guy, the point I was trying to make, and I don't think I said it very well, is that if you look strictly at the small neighborhood strip clubs inhabited by locals, I think the dynamics between customer and dancer is much the same regardless of whether the club is predominately white or black. But both are usually quite different than the dynamics in a GC, most of which are predominately white. It's the type of club that makes the difference, not the race of the dancers and customers.
  • Book Guy
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    17 years ago
    Yeah, I can't think of a predominantly black club that is also trying to be a "gentleman's club" with things like expensive cigars and champagne, a strict no-touching policy, an evening-gown requirement for the women, etc. I don't like that kind of club, white or black, and my assumption about social/economic class overlapping racial groups in America seems to be borne out in the fact that I can't readily think of a "high class" club that is also primarily black. The local clubs' interactions DO change, region to region. In a given city, I think one tavern is an awful lot like another tavern, and the question of where to go is probably mitigated mostly by which dancer works where. But as you move across the country, what passes for major levels of contact in Atlanta becomes the bare minimum norm in Texas, whether you're at a neighborhood tavern style strip club or a gentleman's club style strip club. Also, there's a third category of strip club. There's the local tavern, and there's the (supposedly) high class gentlemen's club. But there's also the "standardized North American strip club." To me, the old Memphis Platinum Plus epitomizes this place -- plenty going on in the VIP, depending on whether it's an election year and on which dancer you pick; otherwise, it's a big hootenanny of screaming, plus one or two stage-shows, lots of titty-tipping, and a paucity of drinks or cigar options. The girls come and go, are mostly college-aged (and not attending college) or a little older, the clientele is largely white, there are lots of mirrored walls, at least one glitter ball, and songs by Kid Rock and Snoop Dogg play all night. The DJ is annoying, the couches seedy, the carpet pocked with cigarette burns, the drinks served in plastic glasses, there's a huge parking lot (which fills up on weekends), the girls deal drugs from the dressing room to one another, some pimps do pimp out some of the girls but mostly the girls can work for themselves, you can get several levels of sexual service (ITC or OTC, depending on the city) if you're enough of a trusted customer, and I LOVE it. :)
  • redhot
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    17 years ago
    Hello everyone, this is my first time posting on the [view link] Guy, there are a few upscale AA clubs, they are just few and far in between. But I am sure they will catch on anywhere the location has the clientele to keep it open. There is Club Onyx (apart of the Rick's Cabaret chain) in Charlotte. Also Magic City, Body Tap and Strokers (and another soon to be reopened Onyx in Atlanta) are the most upscale AA clubs in the area. No the women do not wear gowns (unless the want to and I don't know about a cigars being sold). But the clubs are safe, no touching 99% of the time. (You may be able to get away with it when the club is packed) These clubs are not 'high class' like PEC in NYC- but the AA crowd likes that. I've been to NYC with some professional black guys and they didn't really care for gowns, low heels and no poles. I guess you could say many are conditioned to expect a show. Shows that would make your jaws drop or hands clap from the dancers sexiness, athletic ability, pole work, whatever. I have worked in both mixed and black clubs. I have seen white guys, from the age of 21 to 91 come in the club either alone or in a group. I have never seen any of them bothered or beat up. Anyone who bothers or annoyes dancers or other customers will be removed promptly by the bouncers. Everyone's cash is green and it is sad to see that doesn't register everywhere.
  • FONDL
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    17 years ago
    Book Guy, there are many other types of club that don't fit either category above (GC and local neighborhoood bar), I was oversimplifying to make a point. For example, there are a lot of small dive-type clip joints where the dynamics are pretty similar to the GCs. There are a lot of what I call LD factories, which are quite different (my ATF worked in one of those - no booze, no amentities whatever, just girls dancing naked and giving inexpensive medium-to-high-contact LDs out in the open.) There are also many other kinds of places that don't fit in any of these categories. I find the variety to be interesting, it's part of the fun of visiting new places.
  • Book Guy
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    17 years ago
    Types of clubs: -- Lap Dance factories (Tampa Mons Venus, 2001 Odyssey; Memphis old Platinum Plus) -- Lap Dance Extras factories (Houston Treasures; San Francisco MBOT) -- local neighborhood tavern (New Orleans Visions; plenty of others) -- Gentleman's Club (Tampa Thee Doll House; New Orleans most French Quarter clubs) -- clip joint dives (New Orleans Iberville-at-Chartres clubs; Micanopy truck stop) -- brothels (Tijuana Adelitas) Your thoughts?
  • FONDL
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    17 years ago
    Book Guy, we had this discussion some time ago. I pretty much agree with your list (although I think "clip joints" aren't a separate category, every category has it's clip joints.) I'd also add 3 other categories: GC Wannabe - larger local taverns and chain clubs that go fancy and pretend to be GCs but don't quite make it. There are a lot of these. Tavern/LD factory hybrids - Local tavern-type places that have a back room and have gone into LDs in a big way. These are also common, I'd put Brad's in this category. Other - there are a lot of places out there that are pretty unique and don't fit readily in any category. What I find especially interesting is that there are huge regional differences in commmon club types. Many areas are fairly homogenous. One of the things I've always liked about clubbing in the Philadelphia and Baltimore-Washington areas is their wide variety of clubs - there's at least one club of almost every type in each of these areas. I think that's unusual.
  • FONDL
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    17 years ago
    Just thought of a couple of other comments. I wouldn't have "LD extras factory" as a category - IME extras can be found in some clubs of all types, although I grant you that they may be more common in LD factories. I also don't consider brothels to be strip clubs but that's a minor point. One other possible category is the sex emporium. I'd put MBOT in this category, along with Show-n-Tell Showbar in Philly, but there aren't many such places. I think the local taverns (with dancers of course) are the most numerous type of strip club - probably more than half the clubs in the country belong there. The hybrids and GC wannabe's are also fairly common, and the latter may be the fastest growing category. The other types are much less common IMO - eg. Baltimore-Washington has only 3 LD factories and 2-3 GC's out of a total of nearly a hundred clubs. The situation in Philly is similar. The LD factories and GCs seem more common than they are because they are often highly rated and get the most publicity. And many people have a much broader definition of what constitutes a GC than do I.
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