A Most Compelling Argument

Well if we wanna get political😁

“A free and prosperous society has no fear of anyone entering it. But a welfare state is scared to death of every poor person who tries to get in and every rich person who tries to get out.” -Harry Browne

“First take the beam out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.”

Mathew 7:5

I would add that maybe is because “Wealth and power has a way of convincing the wealthy they are entitled to do whatever they want. It’s expressed in the “golden rule”: whoever has the gold makes the rules”

Interesting quote. I've made the same argument to people who've called me racist for not wanting open borders.

I was talking about Nicespice's quote not CJKent's.

The Rev's anecdotes remind me of the time I spent with the military in Germany in the mid-80s. This was before the Iron Curtain came down and West Berlin was still an occupied, walled, island city in the middle of East Germany. Members of the WW II Allied Powers (US, UK, France) still had the right to transit transit the Berlin-Helmstedt Autobahn through East Germany to Berlin, so I took that opportunity a couple of times. It was a jarring experience.

Do you remember how the movie the Wizard of Oz is filmed in black and white at the beginning, and then color when Dorothy lands in Oz? Entering communist East Germany was like that, except in reverse. Traveling through West Germany, you saw well kept houses in picturesque villages surrounded by verdant fields. As soon as you crossed the border, it was as if the world went to black and white: shabby, dreary looking houses; pathetic, sparse crops struggling to grow in dusty looking fields; and Trabants belching smoke barely able to make 100 KPH on the autobahn. Once in Berlin, the world changed to color again, and you were in a modern, vibrant, bustling city. Then, through Checkpoint Charlie and into East Berlin, you were back to black and white. In East Berlin you could still see some areas where there was war damage over forty years later. I was driving a VW Golf, which no one in West Germany, the land of high powered Mercedes and Porsches, would bat an eye at. I parked on a side street in East Berlin, and when I came back, there was a crowd of kids around it peering through the windows as if it was a Lamborgini.

That's what socialism will do for you. Just ask the Venezuelans.

Reverend, your argument is a non-starter. What you are calling Communism is really statism. This happens in places which have no tradition of electoral democracy.

Once you have electoral democracy, then people will not accept anything other than that.

Even John Brown's Constitution was only to be provisional.

famous-trials.com

Where you have Social Democracy, it is there because people voted for it. And it is a constant give and take, as opinions sway.

If you really want to talk about Communism, the greatest Communist organization is the US Military.

SJG

The United States had enjoyed a huge advantage over other countries, because our experience of colonial rule was not that racially based. So we ended up with a middle-class sustained by the public stimulus of free or cheap land.

Other countries never got this, and so they have long been just the very rich and the very poor.

So we have enjoyed a kind of "prosperity" for a long time which was out of reach for most countries.

Its not because our system has been anti-socialist, it has actually been because our country has had kinds of limited socialism, in this free and low cost land, and then later via high progressive income tax and keynesian spending.

SJG

The problem with debating "Communism versus Capitalism" is that these two systems are a lot less different than they may appear.

Very good: amazon.com

SJG

a precursor to the type of debate we need to have in the US youtube.com

I am impressed with the reverend's insight.

In many ways one could say the USA has been an over 200 year experiment in capitalism and free markets. It has worked very well for many. In my view there is no better country on earth.

However, there is now an odd view being sold by many ultra liberal types, who believe they should be in charge of redistributing the wealth.

At the same time, college students are hearing this, and they also hear about the difficulty in finding work to support a nice standard of living. Its easy to pander to young folks and try to sell an agenda where everyone shares in the wealth. But the model is fatally flawed, and I don't believe it, and I don't trust the government to provide the level of equity that free markets do.

As a child I thought it was odd hearing about Olympic athletes from China or Russia - defecting from their country to live in free areas. If people are free, they should be allowed to come and go in a free and legal manner. Freedoms and laws are important in our society. Borders define our states and our country, if they aren't enforced, we have a boundless and lawless anarchy - and nobody (even SJG) should want that.

The United States has been a 200 year experiment in government subsidies to sustain a middle class and promote democracy, and prevent division into the very rich and the very poor.

As such we do have an advantage over other countries.

The subsidies started in the form of free and low cost land. Then later they have existed in the form of high progressive taxation, and redistribution.

This all started to fall apart in 1980 when because of Evangelical Christians entering politics and turning against their Southern Baptist Sunday School Teacher, we elected a Hollywood Playboy Divorcee.

SJG

It must be difficult to be wrong so frequently that it becomes the standard by which each of SJG’s posts are judged.

My point remains - do you honestly trust the government to equitably redistribute wealth?

The government can’t be trusted to spend within their current means.

This is a sad excuse to allow more government waste - and less equitable distribution of wealth. It’s basically putting the mouse in charge of distributing the cheese.

Based on your argument - a person working in a Walmart stocking shelves - deserves free college tuition for their kids?

No they don’t. They have a job and an income - and they have opportunity to do more with their skills. They deserve to be paid for their work. They should save and invest - so they can pay for their family.

We live in a free country. We have free will. We can work our asses off an make lots of money. Capitalism allows us to get rich, and it also allows us to piss it away, but it’s our decisions that do it. I’d much rather be in control of my destiny than be dependent on government hand outs.

"If I was POTUS my system would be quite simple --- no person in America is allowed to have a net worth over $300 million."

I guess it's a good that we have this little thing called the Constitution. I don't think there is a provision in it that that allows the President confiscate anyone's wealth over $300M.

It’s taxation when it’s a tax passed by Congress. It’s unconstitutional confiscation if the president just decides he’s going to take everything above $300M that anyone makes and redistribute it the way he deems best, which is what you proposed. So yeah, it’s a good thing we have a Constitution to stop wanna be tyrants from taking over, at least until the liberals on the Supreme Court “interpret” it out of existence.

The government will redistribute wealth much better than the wealthy. As long as the money is flowing to the poor, I can handle some corruption.

"I’d much rather be in control of my destiny than be dependent on government hand outs."

I'd prefer citizens didn't starve, go homeless, or be without healthcare. Again, I can handle some corruption.

I don't care if people piss away their money as long as they actually have money to piss away.

Wow, pretty scarey that we actually have people in this country advocating for presidential rule by dictat.

You're stupid Vh. The Democrats made the same inane argument you just did in Court: And Lost. Kind of funny you had to quote a failed comedian to find something else to post. Why not quote a chef on offensive line play. How does it feel to root for a rapist like Ben loser? Social Security and medicare were revered when they were used for their original purpose and are now hated simply because filthy rat progressives use the money to buy votes. Social Security wasto be a safety net for the poor, not a fall back retirement plan for losers who need a new cellphone and car every year; i.e. millenials.

This redistribution of wealth is easy to spout off about - as it’s not your money - it’s not the governments money either - it’s privately made money - and it’s important to understand that fact.

It’s also not a little corruption - it’s incredible levels of government waste - so much waste that very little will reach those in need. So think about your claims before you think it’s for the greater good - as it’s not. It’s adding to more waste.

Redistribution is not the answer - it’s another way to perpetuate the problem.

Don’t quote Bill Maher - the guy who called the 9/11 terrorists brave -

I just don’t understand why those who are so critical of the USA, and continue to criticize it in so many facets, why do they continue to live here?

Why don’t guys like SJG and others simply leave and move to a place they think fits their ideals better? Probably because they are an official king of dumbasses!

Capping net worth is stupid. If I’m Bezos, for example, how dare I take financial risks only for someone to ring a bell and tell me I’m too successful. Want to point the finger at the Waltons? Blame fucking China for manufacturing processes allowing sweatshops, child labor, industrial facilities where pollutants laws are less stringent than the US, resulting in cost of good prices unattainable in the US. If there were higher tariffs on Chinese goods then maybe Americans would shop less at Walmart and/or buy more local from middle class owned companies. Not addressing things like this is the issue, pointing fingers at rich families is not the answer. Now, a flat tax with an upward curve, fine. Too many loopholes in the current system. How about that $300m cap idea, you run that by Jay Z, Mel Gibson, Will Smith, etc. Democrats (see new Uber retard Debra Messing) are too busy pointing fingers at individuals rather than tracing the money and trying to adjust the core problem. At least Trump is trying. And yeah look at the steaming pile of shit being put in front of us by the Democratic Party, a bunch of old ass government tit-suckers who have never been involved in capitalism, just a bunch of professional politicians which is what this country is sick of.

Wow, sounds a little bitter, doesn’t he?

“which is why we never criticize the free press“

“ you literally spewed line-for-line exactly what Handjob Hannity does every day on his Stupid Show of Lies and Delusions.”

“Handjob Hannity and Ratface Lardball”

Now that’s pretty funny. (But who’s Ratface Lardball?)

^ Rush Limbaugh

I don't agree with him. He went way off the rails early on.

But I must say - his anger and his rants are entertaining.

Gee, I wonder how he really feels about conservatives?

Wow!

Just wow!

TV has really rotted our brains!

Life is not as simple as what each 10-minute TV segment on CNN or Fox News might suggest. Capitalism, socialism and communism are not panaceas.

I am from West Texas and was as rabidly pro-capitalism and anti-communist as anyone you might expect to meet who grew up on the high plains of West Texas.

Then I began traveling all over the world and living in wildly different places on four continents.

America is a great place to live, but I can assure you it has NOT cornered the market on great ideas for structuring a society or even an economy.

Go spend some time in Canada, Sweden, Switzerland, Japan, Denmark, Australia, New Zealand or Singapore.

They have some good ideas too!

Look past the political labels and consider instead the practical results of alternative policies.

It’s interesting how the so called progressives advocating socialism like to throw around the word “fascist” when the original fascists were socialists: the National Socialist German Workers Party, better known as the Nazis.

If these countries are so wonderful, you and the rest of the Hollywood idiots came move there.

It's amazing how bitter the left is that they lost the election. I mean what a bunch of whiny twats. Oh here comes Socialist Bernie or Alzheimers Biden to save the day in 2020...

Obama was in office when Bin Laden got caught. Thanks, GWB.

Am for flat tax, so wealthy cannot abuse tax loopholes and they pay fair share.

Using China because lower cost of good is way of life. Do you contribute to your 401k in companies that self regulate their earnings or do you want the companies providing best return to stakeholders?

Maher is a blithering idiot that went off the rails long ago. He used to be middleish then discovered, capitalism in play here, his ratings and earnings went up when he panders to the wacko extremist left.

Trumps not a racist, he is just a business man and trying to run America like a business. Sure, some people that vote for him are, not his fault. Same way some people voted for Obama because of his skin color.

Anyway, it's amazing how stupid the left is these days. They are blinded with irrational rage as they lost to orangemagaman.

“If these countries are so wonderful, you and the rest of the Hollywood idiots came move there.”

I am an American. I am most comfortable living among other Americans. But I realize that America is imperfect and that it can be improved. I favor any ideas (regardless of where they are sourced) that can improve my country.

That’s what patriotic people in a free society do!

We can disagree on what would help make America a better place. But that’s OK. We are allowed to disagree.

This isn’t North Korea.

I fear for the future of this country, what’s happening here is what’s wrong with our America, my understanding of our founding fathers is that they were fiercely partisan but committed to a common bond, yes fights broke out all of the time and they defended their point of view as strongly as they could, yet mostly understood that at some point a consensus would be necessary to keep things moving forward. If this bickering doesn’t end it doesn’t say good things for the future of these United States.

VH,

Luckily for our country, your "rules" are a fantasy. President Trump WON!

Get over it!

I wonder how many strippers are in communist nations

@VH unfortunately most of the voters in the younger age brackets never learned civics in school as a result they don’t vote, not a fan of the current administration but not gonna lie as a centrist, the left wingers scare me just as much as the right wingers, I worked hard to get to where I am, and I don’t appreciate folks thinking that I owe them a living, things like UBI and free tuition will kill the little work ethic that’s left in this country, not going to vote for Trump not ever I don’t like him at all, but truth is if the devil is in the details best get those details covered.

'Draft dodging pussy grabbing' - are we talking Trump or Billy Boy here? 🤣🤣🤣

At the end of the day if you're a loser who contributes nothing, you vote democrat.

This my money, I earned it, fallacy is so widespread and deeply rooted, that it probably is going to take nothing less than a purge, to change it.

Well so be it. I would never be part of such a thing in any other country, but in my own country, of course.

No one person is going to be redistributing any wealth. It is obviously to be a collective process. And it won't be just one redistribution, it will have to be a continual process.

There really is no other choice, as advanced industrial, information, and agricultural technology has made it so that labor is in extreme surplus. We don't want people like Jeff Bezos in charge. And if the likes of Harry Browne were in charge he would turn this into a third world country in no time.

SJG

B52's youtube.com

^Jesus Christ—we have a true believer!

Yes, I do agree with you.

Good book, but I have only read a portion of it so far:

amazon.com

SJG

I agree with VH_Kicks that is.

SJG

money. But now imagine 90,000 Amazon workers all making $100,000+ a year because of the Bezos wealth distribution --- now you got 90,000 people buying 90,000 cars and 90,000 big-screen TVs and 90,000 vacations and 90,000 kids getting their tuition paid

So you're a believer in trickle down economics... hmm maybe there is some hidden republican blood in you yet lol

Bezos single handedly destroyed out bricks and mortar bookstore industry. While maybe that was bound to happen anyway, maybe it would not have happened. Eitherway, we should not have our government supporting Bezos, not to create jobs, not for any other reason.

SJG

I am totally opposed to trickle down thinking, and I agree with what VH_Kicks has posted above.

Reagan and trickle down was a huge mistake.

SJG