OT: Florida Stand Your Ground Trial

I followed this incident as it was unfolding. Tough to decide. The guy was probably scared for his life after he hit the ground. The guy that put him there is younger and stronger and thus posed a definite threat. However, the old man technically instigated the confrontation by approaching the girlfriend to Bitch about an inanimate parking space. I would have to see all the presented evidence before concluding my thoughts.

a) she shouldn't have parked there illegally taking up a space that is meant for handicapped people

b) the guy that got shot shouldn't have put his hands on the guy that shot him

I'm of the thought that you only put your hands on someone bc they put their hands on you, not bc there's a disagreement - once someone gets physical all bets are off as far as I'm concerned

This is probably one reason that I don't own a gun. I wouldn't want to be put in this kind of position. The old man just got knocked senseless by a very large, angry man that came at him. He pulled out his gun and pointed. Probably had no idea that they guy was backing up from him at that time. He was scared out of his mind.

Put yourself in that position. I mean really think about what that old man was thinking at that moment in time. I'm sure he was scared for his life. Would you have even noticed that the guy took one step backward ?

It sounds like justifiable homicide to me. The man spoke to a woman who was illegally parked in a handicapped space. The woman should not have parked there and she should have moved when called out. Then her boyfriend comes out of the store and immediately assaults the man. The boyfriend seems to be a lot bigger and younger than the man. He then defends himself as is his right. He shoots the boyfriend and the boyfriend dies.

This was all avoidable. Don't park in handicapped spaces. Don't knock a man to the ground, no matter how heatedly the man may be yelling at your girlfriend. Don't shoot anyone unless it is absolutely necessary.

I usually carry a gun. I have never had to draw it and I hope I never do. But in this case I might acted like the man who was knocked to the ground.

This happened a couple of months ago here in Miami - a young Mexican actor punches a 63 y/o man after a traffic dispute and the man dies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPx1HBHT…

Another recent example of a man whom was also killed from a punch over a misunderstanding where the victim thought it was his Uber ride - bottom-line is too-many people in this country in particular feel violence is the way to solve a misunderstanding, or an opinion the person doesn't like, or someone doing something a person doesn't like - too many thugs act w/ impunity b/c most people are scared to stand-up too-them - if enough thugs get blown away then perhaps they'll think twice b/f putting their hands on someone to solve an issue:

https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/News/video/wa…

The man that died had absolutely no justification to physically assault the shooter and the shooter was justified in defending himself from a violent assailant.

Was the shooter an idiot for verbally going off on the woman? Yes, but saying stupid things is not a justification for assault. The fact that he lost his temper and vented his frustration at the driver was what started the chain of events but that didn't justify violence against him.

I look at this situation much like a road rage case. Just because some idiot cuts you off and the flips you the bird doesn't justify you running up to his car at the next red light and sucker punching him through the driver's window. If you do, he has the right to defend himself against your attack.

The shooter would've been better off snapping a picture of the license plate and the car parked illegally and calling the police while the driver could hear what he was doing. The threat of police involvement would've most likely convinced her to move or at least to not risk doing it again.

"... The fact that he lost his temper and vented his frustration at the driver was what started the chain of events but that didn't justify violence against him ..."


Kinda my point when I posted "too-many people in this country in particular feel violence is the way to solve a misunderstanding, or an opinion the person doesn't like, or someone doing something a person doesn't like" - if someone gets called out for doing something they should not be doing/illegal, the reaction should not be to use violence for being called-out for doing something illegal; and a citizen should not have to be subject to violence for calling someone out doing something wrong - as far as I'm concerned the driver caused this situation by doing something illegal; basically "yeah it's a handicapped spot and I'm not supposed to park there but basically I don't give a fuck I'm gonna park there anyway and do what I wanna do and no one better not tell me anything".

IMO the takeaway should not be don't call somebody out for doing something wrong - this is why often times people just stand by and don't do or say anything when someone is being victimized - this society is afraid of thugs and it should be the thugs that should be afraid of the actions they take - for the most-part law-abiding citizens on avg live life afraid of thugs and why thugs do what they do b/c they know people for the most-part are pussies

Another recent example of unnecessary violence on a 68 y/o man that basically put the old-man in a coma over nothing:

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Elde…

Not guilty. The girlfriend shouldn’t have parked in the handicapped parking spot. I remember this case. What was the old man supposed to do, let this huge man kick the shit out of him and put him in a hospital. No choice.

Here's the thing though. The thug had stopped advancing. Then both the shooter and thug hesitated then the shooter plugged him.

I wouldn't convict this guy of manslaughter but there should be a penalty for what he did.

As I stated earlier, I would need to see/hear testimony before passing any judgment. Yes, there was a pause. Yes the big guy stepped back. HOWEVER, hitting a solid ground (asphalt/concrete ) at his age can be extremely disorienting. I don’t know how good his vision is/was, if he was able to discern the guy to be backing off, thought the guy was pulling foot back to punt kick him in the face, etc. hard to tell what is going through the old man’s mind in the Seconds required for him to
Act in defense??.... or offense??

If someone dies I assume manslaughter is the min they can charge him with?

If so, the shooter would get off if I was on the jury. No way I would send someone to jail for decades for that.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Lots of police on the board!

i feel his arrest is valid. In most places you only use equal force when assaulted first. If someone punches you in the face, you have the right to PUNCH, KICK OR SLAP them back. A gun is an unnneccesary form of assault when dealing with hand to hand combat and rightfully punished in many circumstances. We can say he feared for his life, but apparently he has a history of whipping out the strap when it comes to handicap sections.

@Papi-Chulo she wasn't parked, she was considered standing the handicap spot. There is no written law against standing or sitting in a handicap zone in most places unless otherwise EXPLICITLY stated.

If I were the judge, I'd book him and send him off for manslaughter at least. But I'm just a citizen so take my opinion for what it is, an opinion.

LOL, mention cops and here comes daddyshortstack, his old lady must have been fucking a cop as much as he hates them.... lol fucking loser

@Estafador:. That thug could mop the floor with me.

Are you saying if a dude like that decided to give me a whooping, I should only be allowed to use hand-to-hand to defend myself?

This sad story is a good reason why people should mind their own fucking business.

∆ so true. A few weeks ago some idiot started aggressively honking at me because I blew thru a school bus with the stop sign out that was four lanes over going the opposite way. I didn't see it.

Horn blowing idiot will never understand that he created far more danger than me blowing thru the bus's stop sign.

As being one that has a handicap parking permit, in Florida, and licensed to carry, I'll admit it burns my ass when people abuse handicap parking or people use a spot they shouldn't.

Now looking at the video already in progress, when the man is shoved to the ground, he can rightfully defend himself from then on, BUT I didn't see any continuation from the guy that shoved him. Had the guy come after him again, a righteous shooting. Per the video, not so.

*sigh nope not today

I don’t understand how stand your ground is allowed to apply for a conflict you initiated, and really was none of your business

If the person is doing something wrong it is IMO everyone's business - most people respect the handicapped spaces for those who genuinely need it - if everyone else parks farther away or in the correct spots, why should someone that does not require that space park in it and not be called-out on it - if you are doing something wrong you should be called out on it and the answer to being called out should not be to physically assault the person

The lady broke the law parking in a handicapped space, then her BF broke the law by putting his hands on the guy - calling someone out is not a crime but putting your hands on someone is (assault)

How would you know that the person wasn’t handicapped and even more important who made this individual boss, and appointed him to watch over the parking spaces, and he could have very simply snapped a pic with the plate number and sent it to the proper authorities it’s nor like the person parked in that handicapped spot posed a real threat or public hazard. Sorry Papi, that guy is a dick and deserves jail time.
There is so much wrong with this I barely know where to begin.

^ i.e. IMO their actions caused the results - follow and respect the law instead of doing w/e the fuck you wanna do

At least in my county there is a website where one is supposed to report handicap parking violators so that means one is encouraged to get involved.

"... How would you know that the person wasn’t handicapped ..."

Now you're grasping at straws and getting into suppositions - with all the reporting done that would have come up and it hasn't - it was reported they dud not have a handicapped sticker and w/o one the law states you can't park in one

Disagree strongly, there are ways to approach this that don’t have to end in a deadly conflict
If you approach a guy that is flagrantly breaking the rules, what’s to say that he won’t act the way this guy did, sorry but you’re job is not to be a vigilante rather if you feel strongly get a trained Law Enforcer involved, vigilantism is frowned on in our society for very good reason.

We disagree I guess - physical violence should not be the first resort but for many in our society the way to deal with any conflict is to use violence

I'm reading where the shooter threatened to shoot someone over the same parking space back in Feb 2018. The jury will hear this.

I don’t think we disagree as much as you think, but I don’t feel that the initial contact was smart and yes for assault the person who committed that deserves a jail sentence but this guy had a history of prior confrontations and should have been stopped from further confrontations long before this occurred
It was both predictable and preventable

I've posted several links depicting how thugs in our society act with impunity and why in *our* society one needs stand your ground - this is a another semi-recent example in my SoFlo area:

https://www.local10.com/video/woman-beat…

^ the video may take a few seconds to load

I see the same news you do Papi, and yes there are thugs that need to be dealt with, if something is occurring and you are able to do something about it by all means do it if you must, but explain the urgency or need for vigilantism over an un occupied parking space, what is the pressing need ? A pregnant woman needs some ice cream, or a handicapped person needs some groceries 5 minutes won’t make much of a difference really man that idiot wasn’t intervening in a mugging or a rape, he was indulging a power trip.

^ I'm gonna stand-my-ground on yo ass

😂

When I see someone parked in a handicap that does not have proper credentials, I inform them that I assume the handicap they have is mental because anyone else would know not to park there.... so far this has started very few fights and none that I did not win

I also carry sidewalk chalk so I can redraw the parking lines for assholes that double park, leaving them a nice message.

I also comment to people who park in the fire lane while they run in the store real quick.

If the store catches on fire and people die because some lazy fuck stick would not walk the 50 feet from the spaces I hope they give them the death penalty.... fuck the 50 dollar fine, kill the sob

My view is that the shooting was self defense but it’s messy as these cases usually are. And the guys questionable history of being a self appointed parking monitor is going to be difficult to overcome. What he should have done is draw his weapon but not fire unless the guy came after him further.

I don't usually use my handicap parking unless it's a long walk. A bit ok at a place I frequent I saw a handicap spot opened but as usual went a bit further away. At I was heading to my destination, I see a domino's pizza guy pull into the handicap spot. It's right in front of their shop. I say something to him and get a "I'll only be a minute." response. I followed him into the store and asked for the manager. I'd seen him in the store as I walked past many times. Once I got him I told him about the driver and basically the same response. I mentioned that there is a SERVICE ALLY that is right at their back door! He said some smart ass comment I've forgotten. I did contact domino's headquarters. They weren't very happy. Don't know for sure, but I never saw the manager in the shop again.

Bottom like, it takes a real asshole to park in a handicap space when they aren't allowed to do so.

@lone wolf you act like the young whippersnapper was continually being aggressive. We both saw him push once then back off. So yes, the old man shooting was entirely unnecessary.

@papi chulo wow, I noticed a certain change in opinion from years ago, what's happened to you over the years? Buddy, you may say it's wrong for the woman to STAND in the handicap area (engine running, not park), but the man came forward aggressive. That was unnecessary since no one else was being affected at the time.
He was shoved once and not persued yet immediately brought out a gun and shot without warning. The man has a history of violent assault making racial profiling a possibility. He's already been in jail once.
The question was should he be punished for the assault. He didn't practice stand your ground, he just target practiced against an unarmed citizen. The answer us yes because he got away with the bs once and if allowed again, he will think it's ok to shoot with impunity. Making him a dangerous, unstable individual.

Its like all you folk read the headline and ignorantly spout off from there.

Holy shit, already at closing arguments. Will be interesting to see how this turns out.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/08/23/us/fl…

As all the 2d Amendment defenders point out, guns don’t kill people. People kill people.

When the old guy decided to buy, load and carry the gun and instigate a confrontation, he is responsible for the outcomes of those, many decisions.

No, the girl shouldn’t have parked in a handicapped spot. No, the dude shouldn’t have knocked the old guy down. But since when are we ok with the penalty for either of those actions being death? That’s fucked yo.

[I tried to type “that’s fucked up” but got autocorrected to “that’s fucked yo.” Made me feel all gangsta so I left it.] 😁

It is fucked up... but that is the society we live in. People show no respect for anyone any more. Showing someone respect says more about you than it does about the person you are respecting. It's cool to not show respect. A long time ago a comedian talked about the problem in America was that we built decks on the back of our houses instead of front porches. People used to go walk after dinner and talk to their neighbors on the front porch.... then we built back decks and privacy fences. Now people stay stuck on their phones, message boards, twitter, instagram, etc.... and they have forgotten how to deal with real live people.

Look on this board....

Rick Dugan..... do you think he would say half the shit he says on this board if he had to say it to the persons face.... Hell no, and its not because he is a pussy its because I would hope he would have better manners and show some respect. On here he can be the biggest cocksucker in the world because he knows he will never be held accountable

DaddyShortStack..... all that FTP shit, no way he acts that way live.... at least I hope he is not that fucking stupid

SJG.... no I think what we see here is what we get, bad example

But you get the point, so this girl parks in a handicap spot because she believes nobody has the balls to say shit.... She should have known better and not started that shit. Was all of it fair, hell no but fair is where you get corndogs and funnel cakes, maybe ride a ferris wheel. If you are gonna fuck with people you have to be prepared for them to be unstable in todays world and if you are not prepared for that shame on you

I’m not sure but I think I agree with that @Dadillac it goes to my original point that the big problem in today’s society is that some folks just don’t know when to mind their own business and some things just aren’t with the fuss.

The problem in society is certain people choosing the rules of society don't apply to them (parking in handicapped spots plus much more); and resorting to violence as a first resort (putting your hands on someone bc they did something you didn't like)

At the LA Fitness I work out at all the handicapped spaces are usually taken up by sportscars and nice vehicles - 90% of the time I see someone going over to their car in the handicapped spots it's a 20/30-something that spent 2 hours working out in the gym.

If they can spend 2-hours working-out in a gym they don't need a handicapped spot - a big-portion of people that use handicapped spots are milking the system where they get a sticker for an elderly relative then use it for themselves.

Every once in a while when they do a news investigation about people using handicapped spaces they bust people time and time again.

A couple of days ago at a Starbucks I see a 30 y/o or so Cuban chick dressed in a nurse's type uniform park in the handicapped spot with a handicap sticker - easy to assume if she can work as a nurse that she shouldn't be using a handicapped spot (I can only assume that she maybe takes care of an elderly person and why she has a handicapped sticker to take the person around but also uses the sticker for herself) - the sister-in-law of a friend of mine has a daughter with advanced ADD so she has a handicapped sticker bc of her daughter's condition but the lady uses the handicapped spot every time her daughter is not with her).

At least down here in Miami the handicapped parking system is severely abused/milked similar to people abusing the support-animal thing on planes and wanting to take anything on board.

The handicapped parking abusers should def be called out - if everyone else parks farther away so should they.

Let that be a lesson to the next angry black man who beats the old overbearing white guy with the big mouth. Next time beat the whiny d-bag unconscious. ;)

^ Because there’s handicapped parking spaces in the gym parking lot I find that funny, truth is people shouldn’t use those spaces if they don’t need them, but it is something that is abused by both sides, government for mandatory handicapped parking in absurd locations and pricks that use them without regard for the people who need them, that’s an area that would benefit from cameras issued summonses rather self appointed vigilantes patrolling parking spaces with firearms.

^Dat u lonny
https://youtu.be/Uzae_SqbmDE

If you are going to take the time to go to the gym park in the back of the fucking parking lot to get some cardio.

Found Guilty!

That was quick.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/23/us/florid…

Papi,

With a handicap placard, one can not use a handicap space UNLESS the holder of said placard does whatever needs doing.

Example: If I use my placard and park somewhere in a handicap spot, my SO can't run in and get something while I sit in the car. Same as not even having a placard.

With that guilty verdict one bullet took out not one but two morons. While I agree that the dude should never have assaulted the old d-bag, from everything I saw and read the old man was itching for an excuse. Who the fuck approaches a car out of the blue with a gun in his pocket and starts berating a woman?

Why does this dumb muthafucka keep addressing me? Fuck. The. Police. You not going to stop me from saying it or believing it. At this point your dumbass could come up with the greatest thought the world has seen and I'd still call you a lying dumb bitch.

That includes you police on this board that take it upon yourselves to act as police. Fuck you.

I'm sorry you get skull fucked by your on the down low brother in blue every time one of these issues comes up and feel the need to take your frustrations out on me. But please please just tell him you like it gentle.

*no judgment. Folks like what they like

lol... somebody is triggered.... what a pussy

FUCK daddyshortstack....... big talker behind the keyboard.... fucking cocksucker in real life


No judgement DSS.... a lot of bitches love to suck cock

So it's ok to kill someone as long as they are standing in a handicap spot unauthorized, is that what erre saying? No don't hold the old man shooter accountable for shooting without probable cause, hold the woman responsible for standing in the handicap zone?
You people are ridiculous

@lone wolf, sometimes even justice can work correctly when need to. Hopefully this cures everyone's hate boner.

Esta,

Please, "...standing in a handicap spot unauthorized..." was not the issue! The fellow was PHYSICALLY attacked.

Dumbass can't stop and won't stop. Oh well what can I do? Oh yea, trigger your dumbass. Wait for it....


FUCK THE POLICE

Now go back to offering your mouth as tribute

lol... like a circus monkey you are well trained

Call you a dumbass. Check
Reiterate FTP. Check
Give you the attention you wanted so bad. Check

Interesting stuff to want someone trained to do but to each their own I guess

Ohhh I feel so awful... big dadday short stack called me a dumbass and he is so tough he can say FTP lol

What a fucking broke dick loser

Enjoy sucking that dick fucking deeeetroit trailer trash

I'm bored with you now daddyshortstack, you are dismissed back to your shithole

txtittyfag, how are the horns gonna be this year

Clubber, as well he should have been for continuing to berate a woman in front of her 3 children. If that was my wife and kids he was pulling that shit on I might have punched the cunty d-bag too.

Getting popped for being an obsessive a-hole with a big mouth doesn't give you the right to shoot a man. That was never what "Stand Your Ground" was supposed to be about. SYG is about being able to use deadly force to protect yourself from the imminent threat of death or great bodily harm. In this case the assailant just shoved him once and also backed away when the gun was pulled out.

Dismissed...not just a dumbass but a witty one too!

Testify rick my friend. Dumbasses gonna dumbass. If a dumbass gets shot and another dumbass goes to jail then good riddance!

Scuttle! Scuttle! Scuttle!

Besides, I don’t get why anybody cares about “handicapped parking”. You know what crabs do when another crab gets injured and can’t walk as far or as fast as other crabs? We eat him. You apes should learn from us!

Scuttle! Scuttle! Scuttle!

^ Who on here hasn't stopped the car someplace he shouldn't so that his SO could run in and out of someplace? Sure she shouldn't have been in the handicapped spot, but it wasn't like she couldn't move the car if needed. But this guy decided it loitering there to yell at her and walk around the car peering into the windows, all while she was alone with little children.

Honestly I wouldn't have minded if the angry black guy caved this fucktard's testicles in, if for no other reason than to actually keep him from accidentally impregnating a hooker someday with his progeny, since I'm sure that no woman would breed with him on purpose.

Testify, rick my friend. Some people take names and kick asses. ricks just kick asses.

Act like a douche on the ricks’ watch and you’re some sort of ass whooping. If it’s me you lose a testicle to a giant crab claw!

Scuttle! Scuttle! Scuttle!