You can't save them

Maybe not save her but I truly feel she will feel like a new woman after I fuck her. It should help her out a little bit.

I agree, playing Captain Save-A-Ho doesnt work.

I need to cogitate on this treatise a bit more, but I think I agree. With the exception, of course, that sometimes I offer my management services to her. Life changing.

I bet SJG disagrees with you. 24/7 draining you dry with stripper grade hotties in his organization.

^ I’m with you on the management services and shit and shit too Subra ;)

TRUE TRUE !!!!! Once a whore always a Whore........goes where the money is !!!!

Not up to me to save anyone from the choices they make as an adult.

Sad, but true

I’ve been with the same hookeri for 10 years. She is a heroin addict currently 10 months sober. I didn’t “save” her. I, in fact, was her #1 enabler for most of those years. 18 months ago I was giving her shit about her habit when she turned to me with tears in her eyes, and screamed, “Do you think I like living like this?” She talked and I listened. She said that with heroin she felt she could keep up her habit for another 10 or 15 years. But with the proliferation of fentanyl she knew that within a month or 2 she’d be dead, either accidentally or not. She said that her desire to keep living waned back and forth. She came to live at my condo. She overdosed; she burnt holes in the carpeting, we occasionally fucked and she concluded that she wanted to live but had to move away; not that drugs aren’t everywhere, but ALL of her friends were in the drug life.
She and I drove for 10 days, stopping frequently as she kicked her drugs - heroin, fentanyl, cocaine, benzoes, and she cried, she got sick, she puked, and she shit herself. I cleaned her up, I wiped her ass and I held her hand. The next to the last day we were together, she asked me to take her to an ER cuz she was going to have a seizure. The doctor couldn’t do anything other than say she could have one at anytime as she detoxed from Xanax. Sure enough, the next day she had 2 seizures.
She now has a full time minimum wage job and is engaged to get married this fall. I flew down to meet her fiancé and gave her my ok, which she wanted.
I didn’t save her. She did it herself. I like to think I put her in the best position to do it herself. I like her as a person, maybe even love her in some ways, but I’m 40 years older than she. I never dreamed of riding off into the sunset with her. Do I miss her touch? Sure. Do I want her to be happy? More than I can say. If I had it to do over again there are several things I’d do differently, but I don’t regret the hundreds of thousands of dollars I spent, I don’t know how to describe our relationship. We talk on the phone daily. I help her a little financially and spent time today explaining how and why that’s got to end soon.
Life’s not so black and white that rickdugan paints it to be.

As I often post, strip-clubs are bizarro-world - the avg inexperienced and/or not TUSCLarly-educated PL just can't comprehend the two worlds or more precisely the often stark differences b/w them - the inexperienced PL just does not have the proper frame-of-reference to understand and/or accept the realities and stark-differences of bizarro-world - it's like going to live in a foreign-land but even more different

@gawker: You didn't spend your life savings saving her. She put most of that up her arm. You just happened to be there when she finally decided that enough was enough. I'll give you credit for helping her over those 10 days, but when the ledger is balanced you are definitely still deep in the red for all the harm you caused her with your long-term enabling. Shit, you were even driving her to drug buys at one point. You're right that life is not black and white, but I suspect that she would have hit rock bottom and been forced to face this reality years sooner if you weren't in her life.

I agree with @rickduggan they don't want to be saved and they don't want to saved by a customer.

I experienced the want to save one of the 1st dancers who let me in to her private life.

As a newbie, I thought she liked me as a person and would appreciate help getting out.

I learned very quickly she had no interest in me or in help getting out but was using this as a method to sell more dances and VIPs.

I gave up on advice years ago unless they ask. I will give advice but i never expect them to take it. I do offer to work out some sort of recurring meetings if she says she is serious about school or some business venture. I suggest we meet once or twice a month to pay a significant portion of her tuition. Most say no but tell them twice a month will buy half of the drugs they use or fund their shoe addiction and they have their phone out open to their calendars.

Oh, I couldn’t keep up with her $300 daily habit. And I’d be kidding myself if I felt I could keep up with her in other ways as well. Lots of other guys did their enabling ,too. My point is that sometimes they see the light. She was a hooker and I was her John. I also spent money on other dancers and escorts. I’ve justified it in my mind and who knows if she’d have gotten clean years earlier or fatally overdosed if I weren’t there. Sometimes when I’d have pangs of consciousness she’d say, “ if not you, I know 5 other guys who’ll ...” we always went bareback which was a requirement for me, I personally thought she was a 10 ( I know others who see her as a 7), when she’d go on a bender or a lengthy rehab, I had a #2 and knew several other dancers happy to please me in any number of ways for the right amount of money. I had a generally happy marriage of 49 years and didn’t pay for sex until in my 60’s. And that was because I wanted young beautiful women. If you want a job done well, hire a professional. I’m hearing more and more voices advocating the legalization of prostitution ( Boston Globe had a 3 page examination of prostitution around the world and I saw a woman give a TED Talk on why we need to decriminalize it. I fully understand the religious right’s objections, but things will eventually improve.

The White Knight Syndrome.
I’ve heard of this and witnessed it in action. Haven’t been inflicted with it yet. I think it helps when you don’t monger locally (only in TJ and GTA for me). But I realize most do.
I’ve worked hard for many years saving and investing to accumulate a nice portfolio and intend on passing it along to my children when I’m gone, not some crack whore.
Easy for me to say don’t get involved in a ho’s personal life (stripper, SA or even civvie) but I can imagine being sucked in when you’re older, lonely and vulnerable.

i help lovely ladies financially. i hope they spend it wisely.

Does this mean that I’m not gong to marry the DS?

This is an interesting discussion - made more interesting by Gawker’s description of his ATF - and their relationship.

Aside from Gawker - we are customers and they are whores - it’s that simple. We don’t have any business paying them for sex - then telling them to get out of the lifestyle. It actually sounds bizarre.

I’ve had my share of girls that made my inner white knight, go whoa, but I’ve also learned that trying to change the behavior of others is a useless endeavor. Now I listen to the voice in my head that says just enjoy the experience and don’t bother looking too hard at who they are or wish they would be.

I have a theory that a PL's eagerness to save a girl is directly correlated to how lonely he is. Some guys just crave drama and neediness as a way to fill a void in their own lives. Maybe I'll face this someday and have a different take, idk. But right now my cup overfloweth already, for which I'm grateful. I've even had a few extended favorites over the years try to suck me more into their drama and look butt hurt when I refused, but my reaction is always the same: no-fucking-thank you.

At the end of the day. all I want is to go into whichever shithole area the club is sitting in, have my fun in that same area and then leave it all behind once I re-enter suburbia. I know what I am and accept it for what it is. Whether I'm doing more harm than good in the grand scheme of things will be for others to judge, but I save my charitable pursuits for those who truly want and need them, not for girls who I am already paying good money for sex in a hotel room. What they do with that money is entirely their call. Now I do indeed avoid obvious drug users, but also know that some girls are great at hiding it, so who knows what they spend the money on?

Anyway, for you guys who really need to feel like you're doing good and not causing harm, pick a different outlet for your sex drives or get over it. Maybe you should get a dog if you need a friend, get involved in local charity drives if you need to feel like a good person or do whatever else you can to fill whatever hole you need to.

Anyway, that's the end of my fucking rant. ;)

===> "Aside from Gawker - we are customers and they are whores - it’s that simple. We don’t have any business paying them for sex - then telling them to get out of the lifestyle. It actually sounds bizarre."

Cash, that was perfectly said. But you'd be amazed how many guys get twisted in knots over some girl they meet in a strip club or even in the local escort scene. Gawker is an extreme example, but I've scene others who parted with serious money thinking that they could help some girl change her life. In most cases they do more harm than good and end up broke in the process.

"We don’t have any business paying them for sex - then telling them to get out of the lifestyle. It actually sounds bizarre."



I am sure others have similar experiences.

I never told any to get out of the business. Women do not need to be saved from being sex workers. There is nothing wrong with being a sex worker.

Many have told me they would like to finish a degree or whatever. what stops them? No Money. The bag she has would pay for at least six credits. That bmw costs as much as a four year degree. I pointed out that a few different choices would fix those problems and we could set up a schedule so she would have the money when she needed it. The answer was always No.

They would gladly set up a recurring session or skip meals if the goal was to buy drugs or more stuff.

I know several women that were using this business to get a degree or start a business. Those ladies did not buy expensive shoes, drove an economy car and always tried to set up the next date or lap dance. They did not need to be saved. Most of those women did get out of sex work and have good lives.

In almost any circumstance in life it’s not a good idea to unsolicited advice in an effort to “save” someone.

Isn't there some hip-hop song about this?

I don't think this is specifically only a PL/dancer thing.

I think there are people, both men and women (probably more women than men IRL), that for w/e reason have that innate "need" for lack of a better word to always try and "fix things" - sometimes it may be boredom in their lives and they kinda get off on the drama, sometimes it's being a bit of a control freak, but often their hearts are in the right place although there execution may be misguided.

Papi, I’m not even sure the heart is in the right place for those folks. Like you said, some may get off on the drama and some may be control freaks. In either of those cases, the person who is trying to “fix things” has made it about himself or herself, not the person who they have decided “needs” the help.

-->"Aside from Gawker - we are customers and they are whores "

While I agree strongly about not "saving" the girls, "they are whores" is definitely not me either. "Whores" has a connotation of contempt, or at least complete depersonalization. I like all the girls who become CFs to me, and really like (and get to know well) my ATFs... in fact, my experience on SA has showed me that my relationship with my ATFs is generally indistinguishable from a PPM-based arrangement. None of that means I'm trying to save anyone; like many PLs, I've learned the hard way that "never teach a pig to sing" applies perfectly here. But not totally depersonalized, don't-care-whether-they-live-or-die whores either.

Someone should do a statistical analysis: I'd estimate that 80% of @Dugan's posts are cartoonish lectures (like this one) about what it means to be masculine. Like an overgrown frat-boy. As if the rest of us are just too weak and emotional to pay for sex without falling into a melodramatic funk.

I don't worry about "saving" these girls I see on the side because I choose partners that don't need to be saved.

This was the hip-hop song I was thinking about:

https://youtu.be/kR1KKL2s678

The overlap between the girls worth saving and guess who want to be saved is very small.

Oh, I couldn’t keep up with her $300 daily habit. And I’d be kidding myself if I felt I could keep up with her in other ways as well. Lots of other guys did their enabling ,too. My point is that sometimes they see the light. She was a hooker and I was her John. I also spent money on other dancers and escorts. I’ve justified it in my mind and who knows if she’d have gotten clean years earlier or fatally overdosed if I weren’t there. Sometimes when I’d have pangs of consciousness she’d say, “ if not you, I know 5 other guys who’ll ...” we always went bareback which was a requirement for me, I personally thought she was a 10 ( I know others who see her as a 7), when she’d go on a bender or a lengthy rehab, I had a #2 and knew several other dancers happy to please me in any number of ways for the right amount of money. I had a generally happy marriage of 49 years however my wife suffered from Primary Progressive Aphasia, which included dementia. I didn’t pay for sex until in my 60’s. And that was because I wanted young beautiful women. If you want a job done well, hire a professional. I’m hearing more and more voices advocating the legalization of prostitution ( Boston Globe had a 3 page examination of prostitution around the world and I saw a woman give a TED Talk on why we need to decriminalize it. I fully understand the religious right’s objections, but things will eventually improve.
I spent a great deal of money on my ATF, however my sick wife had the best care and treatment in the world. No expense was spared on multiple doctors, home health care, and finally a skilled nursing facility. So, the likelihood of loneliness being a factor is quite real.
Does this not support the need for legal sex for pay? I have 5 neighbors who are widowers. Two are dating and the other three either can’t get it up or don’t care about getting it up. And Bob Kraft isn’t one of them.

Very timely post, I needed the reminder

Women don't need saving, they need acceptance and understanding.

If you want a bad girl, show her you're a bad boy... be the opposite of a captain save a ho and you'll get her.

That said, be careful about getting involved with women into hard drugs.There is no happy ending

I have never once tried to save a dancer.

As long as she is satisfying me I'll get dances. If she is too strung out, starts loosing her looks from her hard lifestyle, or starts turning into a ROB to feed her addiction, it's to the next dancer.