OT: I had read a while back that this could potentially cause a recession at som

avatar for Papi_Chulo
Papi_Chulo
Miami, FL (or the nearest big-booty club)
An explosion in auto debt threatens consumer finances, advocacy group warns


As Americans' appetite for new cars continues unabated, an advocacy group is sounding the alarm over the growing level of auto debt carried by U.S. consumers.

In a report issued Wednesday, U.S. PIRG warns that the continuing rise in auto debt is putting many consumers in a financially vulnerable position, which could worsen during an economic downturn.

The report comes on the heels of data released Tuesday by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York showing that at least 7 million Americans were in serious delinquency on their car loan — 90 or more days behind — at the end of 2018. That's 1 million more than at the end of 2010.

"More and more people are buying too much car for what they can afford," said Ed Mierzwinski, senior director of U.S. PIRG's federal consumer program.

The group's new report delves into the financial implications and policy-related aspects of Americans' reliance on cars. It shows that the aggregate amount of auto debt that consumers carry — roughly $1.27 trillion — is 75 percent more than the amount owed at the end of 2009 (it's 51 percent when adjusted for inflation).

Overall, auto debt accounts for about 9 percent of total U.S. consumer debt, up from 6 percent in late 2011, separate data from the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City show. Among subprime borrowers — those with credit scores below 620— the delinquency rate was 16.3 percent in mid-2018. In 2015, that figure was 12.4 percent.

Part of the overall growth in auto debt comes from consumers' shifting preference for larger, more expensive vehicles such as trucks and SUVs instead of sedans or compact cars. The average price of a new vehicle is now about $37,100, compared with $27,573 five years ago, according to auto research firm Edmunds.

For consumers — the bulk of whom finance their purchases — that means higher balances and loans that stretch longer. As of January, the average amount financed was $31,707 and the average loan length had reached 69.1 months, up from 61 in 2010, according to Edmunds.

Rising interest rates also make the cost of borrowing more expensive. The average rate on an auto loan is roughly 6.2 percent, compared with 5 percent a year ago. However, the lower a consumer's credit score, the more they can expect to pay in interest — even in the double digits.

To illustrate the difference that the interest rate makes: If you pay 4 percent on a $30,000 loan over 72 months, you'd pay about $470 a month and end up shelling out close to $3,800 in interest.

By comparison, the same amount financed for the same length of time but at 10 percent interest would result in monthly payments of $555 and interest totaling more than $10,000. And, the longer the loan term, the greater the chance you could reach a point where the amount you still owe on the loan is more than the value of the car itself.

Mierzwinski said the most important way consumers can keep the cost of their purchase down is to secure financing before heading to a dealership. If not, you'll be presented with options that could cost you more in interest, whether through the dealer's own financing arm or another lender that it works with.

"Get preapproved at your credit union or bank," Mierzwinski said.

Additionally, he said, add-ons offered at the dealership during the purchase process will only cost you more and line the pockets of the dealership.

"Avoid things like etching or undercoating or an extended warranty, or other products you don't need," Mierzwinski said.

Additionally, you can explore other options to to reduce your costs, such as considering a used car.

"We're warning people not to buy too much car, not to take out too much of a loan or fall for any of the tricks and traps that dealers use to get you to pay more than you should," Mierzwinski said.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/13/explosio…

18 comments

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avatar for Warrior15
Warrior15
6 years ago
We're gonna have one of those eventually. High consumer debt is not a good sign. The Fed changing it's course on interest rates is not a good sign. People will still buy that next car as long as they think their income is secure. They'll stop buying when they aren't sure about that next paycheck.
avatar for JamesSD
JamesSD
6 years ago
I think it's less a cause than a predictor. But it may also be a sign of the fact wages have been stubbornly low during this economic boom as the rich take a bigger and bigger slice.
avatar for Icey
Icey
6 years ago
we're not out of the last one yet. look at prices, stagnant wages, not a lot of good paying jobs being created.
avatar for DandyDan
DandyDan
6 years ago
I'm not surprised. The trend in auto purchasing is to get bigger cars, which cost more. It doesn't help that Americans have always viewed their cars as a status symbol. I think that whole process is insane. All I really wanted was a car that ran and was reasonably priced. Since I got my car paid for, I am basically going to run it into the ground and only get a new one (which may not actually be new) when I have to. I have enough other issues to worry about.
avatar for orionsmith
orionsmith
6 years ago
I'm hoping my current car which is 17 years old keeps running good and that no one hits me because the insurance company will likely say it's totaled now with minor damage. Someone ran into the car a few years ago while it was parked legally in front of a house. I had it fixed then but insurance was close to saying totaled if damage had been slight,y worse. I want to keep driving it. Newer cars cost too much. They are depreciating assets where you lose money every year. I thought I read the younger generation preferred uber or lyft rather than owning a car. Of course I was one of only about 8 people in a class of over 200 in an economics course that aced a test and one question involved when do you replace a car. When maintenance costs exceed the cost of a newer car was the correct answer. Most of the public would probably say when you get tired of it.
avatar for orionsmith
orionsmith
6 years ago
I'm hoping my current car which is 17 years old keeps running good and that no one hits me because the insurance company will likely say it's totaled now with minor damage. Someone ran into the car a few years ago while it was parked legally in front of a house. I had it fixed then but insurance was close to saying totaled if damage had been slight,y worse. I want to keep driving it. Newer cars cost too much. They are depreciating assets where you lose money every year. I thought I read the younger generation preferred uber or lyft rather than owning a car. Of course I was one of only about 8 people in a class of over 200 in an economics course that aced a test and one question involved when do you replace a car. When maintenance costs exceed the cost of a newer car was the correct answer. Most of the public would probably say when you get tired of it.
avatar for RandomMember
RandomMember
6 years ago
Interesting topic and a lot of parallels b/w subprime auto loans and subprime mortgages during financial crisis.

There's no reason for auto lenders to give a shit whether the loan will be repayed if the auto loans are bundled into securities and sold to clueless investors. Similar to the financial crisis when dogshit mortgages were bundled into mortgage-backed securities, repackaged into CDOs, and sold off to clueless pension-fund managers and other investors all over the world. If I had to guess, biggest difference appears to be magnitude of loans: Mortgage-backed securities amount to something like $9Trillion whereas auto-loan securitization is more like $200B. So doesn't sound big enough to bring down the financial system. But who knows, and we have clueless politicians now bent on deregulating everything.
avatar for mark94
mark94
6 years ago
The auto industry is facing huge changes
- the advent of all-electric cars which is going to happen much faster than most realize
- a generation of young consumers that is more interested in cell phones than autos
- ride sharing in urban areas resulting in less interest in car ownership
- ever more long-lasting autos resulting in less frequent car purchase

GM and Ford are scaling back their capacity in anticipation of a plunge in the number of internal combustion vehicles sold. Since the auto industry accounts for over 5% of GDP, this will impact the overall economy.
avatar for Papi_Chulo
Papi_Chulo
6 years ago
^ being a consumer-economy one would think the $$$ not spent on cars in the future would be spent elsewhere in the economy analogous to creative destruction
avatar for Lurker_X
Lurker_X
6 years ago
Historically, automobile sales correlate well with economic cycles. During a recession people keep repairing their beaters. When people find the economy improving and better jobs are available, they tend to treat themselves to a new car that they have been waiting for.

Automobile manufacturers tend to get caught towards the end of an economic boom with a product mix of larger, fuel inefficient vehicles and they must retool and quickly introduce smaller ones. This happened in 1959, 1973, 1990, 2007. When the economy is improving, you will see articles that mention how larger and more feature-laden vehicles are being introduced.
avatar for AZFourTwenty
AZFourTwenty
6 years ago
Correlation is not causation.

I think we are getting to a point where our recession will be caused by global slowdown and will be prolonged. The Asian/third world boom of the past 20-30 years is petering out without anything to take its place.

Keep in mind that governments are the final ponzi scheme.
avatar for clres007
clres007
6 years ago
I read somewhere that sales figure of non trivial things such as underwear could be used as leading indicator for predicting a recession. It is plausible, I think.
avatar for Papi_Chulo
Papi_Chulo
6 years ago
I read that a decline in sales of strip club VIPs was a very-strong recession leading-indicator
avatar for Icey
Icey
6 years ago
You can get a nice car for cheap. I got a 2009 BMW X5 for $5000
avatar for mark94
mark94
6 years ago
Just wait until your “cheap” BMW generates its first repair bill of $5,000.
avatar for Papi_Chulo
Papi_Chulo
6 years ago
^ a used car can often be a good deal but I'd be wary of owning an expensive used foreign-car that is out of warranty especially if I'm not the original owner and don't know how the previous owner(s) treated it - but it's one way to drive a nice car w/o paying thru the nose
avatar for san_jose_guy
san_jose_guy
6 years ago
Recessions are always caused by over production and over consumption. There is lots of instability built into our economy.

Very hard to stop busts once they start, but if we refuse to support the booms, then the busts will be mitigated.

SJG

Love for Sale ( really cool cover of Billy Holiday )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8htJVyav…
avatar for san_jose_guy
san_jose_guy
6 years ago
Our economy has been turned into a giant Ponzi Scheme. I all depends on over consumption. So almost anything could bring it down by spreading fear. And really, the sooner the better. The sooner it comes down, the less the harm.

SJG
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