Several cities in my area have gotten rid of red light cameras, in part b/c people were majorly pissed, and in part b/c a study showed there were actually overall more accidents at the intersections w/ cameras (one of the assumptions is that drivers freaked out by the presence of red-light-cameras will slam on the brakes w/ a yellow while the car behind them thought they were going resulting in more rear-end collisions) - but several cities still have them often times in poorer of areas of the city of all fucking places (but not exclusive to the poor-areas but they seem more-common in the poorer areas).
I made a slow rolling right as the light was turning red and got nailed for a cool $158 - fucking pissed - def feels like a damn money-grab and I would not doubt many local politicians have had their palms greased by the private-companies that install these POS cameras.
Any of you PLs have these in your area (list your area/city)? How many times have you gotten a red-light-camera surprise in the mail?
Yep. Clearwater has them. And I think the Yellow lights at these are shorter to catch people also. My understanding is the company that puts these in covers all the cost of putting them in and operating them. No cost at all to the city government. But then the company gets half of that ticket. So the city views these things as revenue boosters.
We’ve had them for nearly 20 years. I LOVE them. Yes, it sucks when you get a ticket but the DC area had a real problem with people running lights. The cameras have drastically cut down people running lights which I think is one of the most dangerous violations in the road. Not in your right on red example Papi, but in the T boning another car at speed situation.
We also have lots of speed cameras that will nail you at 11 mph over. Those, I hate.
I have no idea how they could even be legal. My daughter got a couple, but there was no way to identify who was driving the car. The car would NOT pay the ticket. :)
Payment is voluntary. No points on your license if you do and it doesn’t get reported to insurance. If you want to contest it in court you are free to do so. The state has the burden of proof so maybe you show it wasn’t you. Most choose to just pay them.
If you lose in court, you get the fine, the points, the insurance hike and the court costs. Not to mention the cost of your lawyer because defending yourself exposes you to testifying under oath. If you go into court to say it wasn’t you driving and are under oath, what are you going to say when the prosecutor or judge asks you if you know who was driving? Then they ask you who has regular access to your car? And on and on. :)
At a presentation I attended in Maryland, a police officer told us that the red-light cameras and the speeding cameras are used to issue tickets for “non-moving violations”. Which is the same category as a parking ticket. In non-moving violations, the liability is attached to the car and therefore the owner of the car. The owner is responsible for paying the ticket. The police & court don’t care who the driver is. Which is why they don’t record points and notify insurance (which at most tightly associated with the driver).
Rental car companies will pass on the cost of these tickets to you, but that’s covered under civil / contract laws.
I would say it's probably a good thing. If they get you, they show you that picture, and damn they got you dead to rights. It sucks for the good drivers, who make a mistake from time to time. But it's great for the assholes who get nailed by at all the time.
Supposedly there's been a few lawsuits w.r.t. these cameras and part of the reason many cities have stopped using them although the courts I think said they could - but seems like the wide-discontent along w/ various lawsuits have made many cities discontinue them.
BoringLoser... I don't know about red light cams, but I know that dash-mounted GoPro footage has been used to overturn charges stemming from a traffic stop.
I say fuck the RL cameras. Some states have ruled them unconstitutional since there is no cop to testify or cross examine in court. It’s a total money grab. Big in Chicago
I got one of those when they were really expensive in California, they are of course an scam between the companies that sell, install and operate them. It is really highway robbery, collusion between the police, the court system and the business.
It is possible to fight the ticket and beat it, if the court system functions the way it supposed to, but as we all know it is “Justice for Some”, the rich and powerful and celebrities etc.
I used to be able to beat all the unjustified tickets I received in the 1990’s and 2000’s; Badass car and Harley chopper profiling by the many envious haters in law enforcement.
As advised by a professor, that used to be a Sargent in LAPD, just make sure you don’t get them more scared that what they already are (because they would shoot you) and be cool, collected, curtesious and professional. And most would let you go. But if you get a ticket, fight it and just make sure than when you show to court the cop is a “no show”; if you know what I mean; the judge will typically dismiss the citation—meaning you win the case and don’t have to pay the fine or worry about the violation going on your record.
You can google how to fight the ticket and find a way to win, take it as a challenge, and adventure.
Just don’t get the judge or anyone mad because they will retaliate against you.
These are a couple of websites that have good information:
“In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers, we are not simply protecting their trivial old age, we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.”
Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago 1918-1956
Chicago and the IL, politicians probably top 5 most corrupt in the country, and I'm being generous. handful of the past governors are in jail, and I Definitely a couple of rolling reds with still cam images, rolling stop violations most if not all at busy times, mind you. Even some BS tollway system issues which were all resolved, but if I didn't notice the letter in the mail in the time allowed it would have been 20$ per violation 50 cent or 1.00., I had one up to 160 in fees since I used the tollway every day for work, AND it was their fault.
As for proving you were driving, many of the ones in Georgia take three pictures. The car and its tag behind the line at the moment the light is red. The car entering the intersection after that. From a 2nd camera a photo of the driver.
Yep, if I remember correctly , it was pretty the same for Lake County, IL. all nicely wrapped up in envelope with Black and White images on a standard piece of paper.
You can increase the chances of getting a no show;
Postpone the court date as many time as is allowed, this can significantly increase the possibility that the officer will not be present during the trial, because he might forgot the details of the case, or might interfere with his personal life.
Never go with the date on your ticket, because cops try and scheduled all of their court dates an the same day. If you schedule for an extension that falls on a different day, it is likely they aren't going to come in on their day off just for one person.
When rescheduling choose a court date that is closer to the holidays or summer vacation days when most cops in that are are on vacation.
But first you might want to try the “trial by mail” (Trial by Declaration if you are entitled to it in your state). You submit your case to show you are innocent in a letter, and the cop that gave you the ticket must do the same. Now days cops will often show up for court because it may be an overtime opportunity, “trial by mail” is a lot of paperwork, and they will often not bother to submit their side of the story (equivalent to no show) because might not be paid for it. If you “lose” the trial by mail, you can still request the in person trial.
We in California also have the right to a speedy trial (45 days from the date of the infraction) and if you know the courts are busy as won’t be able to hear your case , within those 45 days, then your case must be dismissed.
like the professor that was a LAPD Sargent told us;
“Accidents will happen sometimes, no matter how careful a man might be...”
“Your honor, this is a tragic accident,and one of the saddest stories that the court will ever hear. But it did not involved criminal intent.”
@Papi
You can fight the camera ticket in court, if they don’t bring the video and show it, case dismissed, if they bring the video; as soon as someone (typically a cop) says anything to “prove their case”, you just object "hearsay". If the cop didn't actually see you do anything, he or she is relying on the observations of someone/something else. As a result, the cop can't testify as to what you did wrong., case dismissed.
I used to think it was my duty to get justice, no duty, my privilege to get justice and do the right thing, fight for the right when I was young. Now I may be to old for that...
You young guy go ahead is your turn, enjoy the privilege...
This discussion about traffic cameras reminds me to avoid driving a convertible, especially when chauffeuring a hooker who might be providing the driver some special attention.
You state "If you lose in court, you get the fine, the points, the insurance hike and the court costs. Not to mention the cost of your lawyer because defending yourself exposes you to testifying under oath. If you go into court to say it wasn’t you driving and are under oath, what are you going to say when the prosecutor or judge asks you if you know who was driving? Then they ask you who has regular access to your car? And on and on. :)"
All valid points. One word comes to mind, extorsion!
In Arizona, you have xx days to respond to the ticket. If you do not respond, they have I believe 20 days to serve you by process server. All you need to do is take measures not to get served. If you are not served, the ticket is dismissed.
i got a ticket rolling slowly thru a public parking lot stop sign that was at the Start of an entrance ramp. it had a video camera focused on that stop sign.
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We also have lots of speed cameras that will nail you at 11 mph over. Those, I hate.
Rental car companies will pass on the cost of these tickets to you, but that’s covered under civil / contract laws.
Saw the flash go off, new I was caught. Eventually it came in the mail.
SJG
Mexico City
http://doxyspotting.com/?p=112750
http://doxyspotting.com/?p=97293
http://doxyspotting.com/?p=70423
Wouldn't it just be the ultimate to have an apartment in one of these neighborhoods?
I got one of those when they were really expensive in California, they are of course an scam between the companies that sell, install and operate them.
It is really highway robbery, collusion between the police, the court system and the business.
It is possible to fight the ticket and beat it, if the court system functions the way it supposed to, but as we all know it is “Justice for Some”, the rich and powerful and celebrities etc.
I used to be able to beat all the unjustified tickets I received in the 1990’s and 2000’s; Badass car and Harley chopper profiling by the many envious haters in law enforcement.
As advised by a professor, that used to be a Sargent in LAPD, just make sure you don’t get them more scared that what they already are (because they would shoot you) and be cool, collected, curtesious and professional. And most would let you go. But if you get a ticket, fight it and just make sure than when you show to court the cop is a “no show”; if you know what I mean; the judge will typically dismiss the citation—meaning you win the case and don’t have to pay the fine or worry about the violation going on your record.
You can google how to fight the ticket and find a way to win, take it as a challenge, and adventure.
Just don’t get the judge or anyone mad because they will retaliate against you.
These are a couple of websites that have good information:
https://www.drivinglaws.org/resources/fi…
http://www.highwayrobbery.net/redlightca…
Always remember;
“In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers, we are not simply protecting their trivial old age, we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.”
Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn,
The Gulag Archipelago 1918-1956
To answer your question;
You can increase the chances of getting a no show;
Postpone the court date as many time as is allowed, this can significantly increase the possibility that the officer will not be present during the trial, because he might forgot the details of the case, or might interfere with his personal life.
Never go with the date on your ticket, because cops try and scheduled all of their court dates an the same day. If you schedule for an extension that falls on a different day, it is likely they aren't going to come in on their day off just for one person.
When rescheduling choose a court date that is closer to the holidays or summer vacation days when most cops in that are are on vacation.
But first you might want to try the “trial by mail” (Trial by Declaration if you are entitled to it in your state).
You submit your case to show you are innocent in a letter, and the cop that gave you the ticket must do the same. Now days cops will often show up for court because it may be an overtime opportunity, “trial by mail” is a lot of paperwork, and they will often not bother to submit their side of the story (equivalent to no show) because might not be paid for it. If you “lose” the trial by mail, you can still request the in person trial.
We in California also have the right to a speedy trial (45 days from the date of the infraction) and if you know the courts are busy as won’t be able to hear your case , within those 45 days, then your case must be dismissed.
like the professor that was a LAPD Sargent told us;
“Accidents will happen sometimes, no matter how careful a man might be...”
“Your honor, this is a tragic accident,and one of the saddest stories that the court will ever hear. But it did not involved criminal intent.”
@Papi
You can fight the camera ticket in court, if they don’t bring the video and show it, case dismissed, if they bring the video; as soon as someone (typically a cop) says anything to “prove their case”, you just object "hearsay". If the cop didn't actually see you do anything, he or she is relying on the observations of someone/something else. As a result, the cop can't testify as to what you did wrong., case dismissed.
I used to think it was my duty to get justice, no duty, my privilege to get justice and do the right thing, fight for the right when I was young.
Now I may be to old for that...
You young guy go ahead is your turn, enjoy the privilege...
You state "If you lose in court, you get the fine, the points, the insurance hike and the court costs. Not to mention the cost of your lawyer because defending yourself exposes you to testifying under oath. If you go into court to say it wasn’t you driving and are under oath, what are you going to say when the prosecutor or judge asks you if you know who was driving? Then they ask you who has regular access to your car? And on and on. :)"
All valid points. One word comes to mind, extorsion!
I was also wondering what color the sky is?
But then again...