time to legalize prostitution in the u.s. again

This seems to be an incomplete cut-and paste, even to the point of having copied a reference footnote number.

Blessed are the hookers for they shall inherit the semen of men.

My 2 cents....Before modern medicine developing VD was often a slow death sentance. Strict laws regulating sexuality rewarded cultures that followed them by having greater survival rates to adulthood. This is similar to ancient taboos on eating pork which was often contaminated before the invention of antibiotics and parasite control.

I'm happy I like in a world where I can eat bacon and bare back strippers ;) Well...at least it's an option that is not normally a death sentance :P

wiki

Who gives a shit if prostitution was legal in the past. Were living in today's world where two fags can get "married" and legally fuck each other up the ass, all under the bullshit of "consenting adults" and equal treatment crap. OK, so that same logic should apply to normal straight people and therefore P4P should be legal. Also casinos and recreational weed are now legal nearly everywhere. Why is P4P any worse? I say legalize now!!!

if prostitution was leagle again. The amount of rape's would go drop in this country.

But, would spelling and grammar improve? Then I say go for it!

“But, would spelling and grammar improve? Then I say go for it!”

They would not, but the chronic depletion of precious bodily fluids due to all the “hooker secks” would make you care a whole lot less! ;)

vajmon would also be a lot more relaxed about everything. He’d be so relaxed from all the hooker sex that he’d be like “gay guys have male hookers, I’ve got female hookers, the rick animals have zebra hookers, and I’m really, really sto....”

And he’d just nod off! It would be absolutely brilliant!

sex is a crime of violence not sex is bs. it is a crime of violence for sure. but it obviously is about sex. to be clear i think rape is wrong. if i want to hurt someone but i don't want to fuck them i will punch them not rape them.

Sorry guys. Ain't gonna happen. You can rationalize it as much as you what. But what happens to the poor congressman that introduces this legislation ? He immediately gets run out of town and doesn't win another election.

The only way it will be de-criminalized is the same way weed is becoming de-criminalized. A liberal state would need to legalize it to start the ball rolling. Once other liberal states see that benefit (eg the tax revenue because we all know liberals love to tax), the slow progression thru the liberal states will begin. All the pro-prostitution lobby needs to do is find the liberal state most likely to begin the process, then for the formula established by the pot lobby.

If prostitution is legalized how will our resident pimp make a living?

^McDonalds

^hes having trouble learning how to close the sale refuses to learn the money phrase “ would you like fries with that “

Legalizing prostitution will make it much more difficult to identify and ultimately prosecute human traffickers.

Making prostitution illegal does not make sense - anyone w/o an agenda should clearly see that - making it illegal does not make it go away and just makes it unsafer and more unsavory for both the provider and the PL.

History has shown how one group will often force their personal viewpoints on others - from women not being allowed to vote, to African Americans being treated as less than full human-beings, to gays being persecuted (raids on gay-bars decades ago to where gay men would lose their jobs/careers if found-out and other anti-gay law including not recognizing their marriages as legal) - to prohibition.

All that has changed and now weed is changing (and should be extended to all drugs even though I've never done any illegal-drugs - it just makes sense IMO).

To me legalizing prostitution is similar to the cases stated above - it's silly and unproductive to keep up this charade and I would assume legal prostitution's day will come at some point (but who knows).

There has actually being a big backlash w.r.t. the recent decision of Tumblr to remove all adult-content.

Most people would only want prostitution legalized if they were sure it could be contained. Most support for declining to enforce, than for open legalization.

SJG

As I see it, the best is somewhere inbetween P4P and Civvilian.

In most countries other than the US, smart guys keep mistresses.

And it takes a certain sort to be a committed womanizer. Not every guy does it.

But I agree that sustained P4P is the stuff of PL's.

SJG

YES! And whereas Americans had been using the term Sugar Baby, which I have never liked, they are now starting to use the term Side Chick.

The Mistress is not a Hoe, but she is not a Wife either. Usually she should not be extremely young either. The term connotes a responsible and level headed women. She is that in between position.

Anyway, in Mexico, even in TJ's Zona, brothels are technically illegal. But a hooker bar is not. No way to enforce any such law via due process and privacy protections.

So if SJG goes to another state and gets a front room makeout session going in a strip club, and then he takes the girl to a motel, where is there a line where someone has broken any law?

Laws against prostitution are only enforced at the bottom end, the street. And this is done by trashing the Constitution.

wikihow.com

In every country, these matters have always been tied to the normative social status of women, and the enforcement of a marital status.

Yes, in Mexico, in many ways, there is more support for prostitution. But that comes at the expense of dividing women into two categories.

SJG

SJG

"... Prostitution doesn't make gender relations better and I would argue about how consensual it actually is ..."

Prostitution has been around since the beginning of time - males want sex, period - this is even manifested in the animal-kingdom - fact is males are wired differently than females and they both have different biological needs/motivations.

w.r.t. consensuality - it's a job - most people do their job b/c they have to for a paycheck, not b/c they love-it - plenty of people do jobs they hate w/ a passion and do it day-in day-out until they can find something better, and sometimes something better may not come along b/c it may not pay as good or w/e.

Most of us are forced to do things out of circumstance we would rather not have to do whether it's job-related or not - as long as they are not being trafficked or pimped, sex-workers have a choice and they make the choice to pull down 4x to 5x, or more, in sex-work where you don't need any qualifications beyond being bangable.

IMO it's not genuine to constantly state that women can do anything and should be treated as equals and having equal-ability, but then paint them as hopeless victims when it's convenient - can't have it both ways - either they can do all things and can fend for themselves and don't need men "to rescue them", or they are weaker and need special treatment - can't have your cake and it eat it too.

Women want sex too. And men do want relationships. But it is patriarchy which started the problem, turning women into property, and then dividing them into two categories.

Prostitution is not a good answer for long term fulfillment. We need to make some other arrangement.

SJG

Where there is a demand (restaurants, drugs, sex, etc), there will be $$$ to be made and "entrepreneurs" willing to meet that demand and reap the reward$

^^^^^ Yes Papi, that is true. But the relations between men and women is a much more complex subject than that.

SJG

Most of the advocates today want decriminalization, not some kind of legalization. And they are willing to accept some designated zone.

If we would merely make LE keep the enforcement within the Constitution, and not portray prostitution as a serious social menace, then strip clubs and excorts could do what they do, and so could street hookers and AMPs.

Remember, it is a crime with no victim, so no victim is complaining to LE.

SJG

But what about the human trafficking epidemic? You can't just bury your head in the sand and ignore it.

Sure there's human-trafficking - but that often the ugly-ones - so you see it's not really that much of an epidemic

Human Trafficking could exist. But I would say the argument that it is common is specious.

Back in the 80's, the anti-sex feminists campaigned against porn, saying that that was abusing women. But now, with the Internet making it near universal, hard to get traction that way. So they campaign against "Trafficking". They are trying to create a victim in it.

So say there is a strip club where there are front room makeout sessions and guys leaving with girls and going to a motel. Is this TJ, no. Say it is in the US. Is any law being broken? Well if you can get people to believe that coerced or mmr trafficking are common, then perhaps there is, and LE has a mandate to close the strip club, and maybe the hotel too.

But if you just have the law against prostitution, really nothing that LE can do.

SJG

Joe Jackson Night and Day youtube.com

TJ Street farm8.staticflickr.com

adelitasbartijuanamexico.com

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So DC, do you want to Legalize or Decriminalize? And if LE just followed due process, the most of the time it is impossible to enforce the laws against prostitution.

As it stands now, they feel that they have a mandate to shred the Constitution because it is such a social menace.

And DC, remember your school work.

SJG

You don't know shit about human traffic until you try to get on the subway in Times Square at rush hour, on a Friday evening ; )

^^^^^ Having lots of immigrants does not mean "trafficking".

twentyfive, do you want Legalization or Decriminalization?

How about if LE just backs off and keeps it within due process and the Constitution.

The argument that it is all trafficking is what gives LE the extreme mandate, to intercede and arrest without evidence.

SJG

^^^^^ Sounds more extreme, but downtown SJ is similar, and SF is more so than San Jose.

So, as long as people believe that prostitution always means some kind of abuse of the service provider, the LE will still be able to close strip clubs where guys seem to be leaving with their dancers. After all, it could be a case of trafficking.

SJG

@SJG I never use the services of prostitutes and have nothing against people that do, I don't believe that there is a lot of trafficking going on here in the USA, and I don't believe that women or men should be made into criminals, over sexual acts that are consensual, other than that, I have no real thoughts, as to whether or not it should be legal or decriminalized.

Legalized usually means licensing and lots of regulations. It has worked badly against women, and the experiences in the Netherlands confirm this.

If LE followed due process, then it would work out that you could go to a strip club or your choice and select a girl and leave with her. How could there be any evidence for LE to act on?

But today, as people see prostitution as a societal menace, such a club would not last.

SJG

^ and you have evidence to back this up or you’re talking out of your ass as per usual ?

Prostitution is one of the only crimes that be charged when two consenting adults perform a legal act.

For several years, indoor prostitution was legal in Rhode Island. That ended in 2009 (officially). See link:

en.m.wikipedia.org

In late 2017, the "Review of Economic Studies" published a study by Scott Cunningham and Manisha Shah that examined the impact of an extended period of decriminalized. Here is the abstract. Note the closing statement.

"Most governments in the world, including the U.S., prohibit sex work. Given these types of laws rarely change and are fairly uniform across regions, our knowledge about the impact of decriminalizing sex work is largely conjectural. We exploit the fact that a Rhode Island District Court judge unexpectedly decriminalized indoor sex work to provide causal estimates of the impact of decriminalization on the composition of the sex market, reported rape offences, and sexually transmitted infections. While decriminalization increases the size of the indoor sex market, reported rape offences fall by 30% and female gonorrhoea incidence declines by over 40%."

Link to study: academic.oup.com

Personal opinion... legalizing prostitution would present challenges (similar to legalizing pot). But, I believe that once those challenges are overcome, the benefits outweigh the problems.

^And the majority of them are pimped that’s just wishful thinking on your part.

^You make such bold statements back it up with a legitimate source, otherwise it’s just fake news.

^See you’re a troll, you can’t respond to genuine questions, you know very well your credibility is shit so rather than respond you try to provoke a response that you can use to claim that you’re a victim. What a sad ass loser you are.

The most exploitative aspects of the sex trade (pimps, etc.) are outgrowths of its illegality. In places where it's legal (Nevada), professional prostitutes can, if they choose, be much more open about their career choice and have greater control over their life and income.

Some even capitalize on their sex work to great advantage...

thealicelittle.com

IceyLoco... now is your cue to provide a repetitive, logic-free disagreement and continue to shame guys on a site dedicated to strip clubs over their enjoyment of strip clubs.

@CMI I don’t need validation from a wanna be pimp, he’s been making all kinds of assumptions about me and many others you know that when you assume you make an ASS out of U not ME. Funny how trolls talk like the voice of experience but refuse to cite any real life examples

IceyLoco... as trolls go, you're both predictable and tedious.

^Well you think that your experience is more reliable than multiple data sources you made assumptions about me that are absolutely incorrect, you come on a board where there are numerous people contributing towards making this a community and tell us that you’re an expert, yet you have yet to write a single review, as far as I know you are unknown to any person posting here, you make outrageous claims constantly. You seem to think you’re the smartest guy in the world, I’m sure Einstein was so awed by your brilliance he needed to wear sunglasses in your presence.
It’s been great chatting wit ya, we’ll do it again sometime.

Little Love Left For Brothels latimes.com

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Remember, the 1972 George McGovern Democratic Platform said anything goes in the bedroom between two consenting adults. That likely was intended just to mean homosexuality. But it would certainly speed moves to decriminalize prostitution.

Shows picture in Pahrump Chicken Ranch businessinsider.com

differencebetween.com

csun.edu

prostitution.procon.org

Problem With Swedish Model newrepublic.com

If you want to stop prostitution you just need to pass a law against marriage.

You can go to a maximum mileage strip club or AMP. You can pay a girl and have sex with her. But this does not need to mean that her primary motivation for having sex with you is money. And you don't ever have to tr;y and use money to persuade her or act like money buys her.

Money is what allows her to be there, instead of having to be doing something else, likely a total waste. And if you met her someplace else, you might be able to get her into bed pretty soon any way, and never find out that she is a sex worker.

The money is just a show of respect, and of care.

Some guys use it because they are cheating on SO's, or because they just don't like women or know how to deal with them. So it is hush money, and the act of a desperate creep.

As I see it, this world is full of social norms, and much of this centers on the rules of marriage. So P4P can be liberating because it helps break down the rules of marriage, like who is eligible, and that it has to be an escape proof death trap. Not everyone wants to live that way. Not everyone could live that way.

Many want legalization of prostitution because they feel that that makes it safe. But often that safety is obtained by putting the women into very bad situations, treating them like they are a societal menace.

And then legalization does not make illegal prostitution go away. In places like the Netherlands, the women will only register after they have been busted. Otherwise they don't want there to be a record.

Don't know about Mexico and the health exams.

As it is now, prostitution laws are enforced in total opposition to Due Process and the US Constitution. If you make LE comply, then the prostitution law will be largely unenforceable.

Suppose we just say that a man and woman who meet in a strip club and decide to walk across the street to a motel, are not doing anything which is anyone else's business.

Suppose we say that trafficking only exists when there is shown to be force, coercion, fraud, or mnrs, because current federal law imposes server penalties without having to ever show such. So the law against prostitution is enforced like it were enforcement against trrrsm, always acting before the fact.

IAACM ( I AM A CHRISTIAN MOVEMENT ) churches tell people to ignore politics, but then keep them on edge with stories of Sex Trafficking.

SJG

TJ Street farm8.staticflickr.com

adelitasbartijuanamexico.com

Well if you meet her in a strip club and want to make things happen, she will expect money, and it would be difficult to change this. If you don't want that, better not to go into the strip club.

If you are seeing her outside regularly this might change, but it might be easier just to go along with it. I would suggest getting her used to the idea that you just want to give her money to take care of her. So it becomes mistress maintenance.

As I know, if you try and get a working girl completely off the clock she might just say something like, okay, so marry me right now.

If you want to live with her and pay for rent and food it might work. But I would not really suggest either of those routes. I think beyond a point, mistress maintenance is a better route. But this does not mean that the relationship is ever totally based on money.

Marriage is just like Russian Roulette, except instead of using just one bullet, you are using three. Been there done that. Anyone who has survived it will always count themselves lucky. Marriage is a near death experience.

The organization I am building is the alternative. You take the women you have loved and when the sexual experience peaks, they get groomed and inducted into the organization. They don't have to go for it right away. But it will always be there for them. And they are encouraged to develop camaraderie with both the women and the men. So though you may have been the one who brought her in, her going further does not have to depend on you.

Civvie or sex worker it makes no difference. There will never be any pressure for her to give up sex work. But that is a type of a life which does have a built in low retirement age. The real issue will be in convincing the women that our way is better than marriage. But even this I don't think will be all that hard. There are just natural and social forces which will come into play.

SJG

TJ Street farm8.staticflickr.com

adelitasbartijuanamexico.com

Issac Hayes - Walk On By (From Montreux 2005) youtube.com

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Dione Warwick and Burt Bacharach - Walk On By, I Say A Little Prayer, Do You Know The Way To San Jose en.wikipedia.org Bacharach now 90 years old.

Isaac Hayes - Shaft - live 1973 - love this song! youtube.com

This was 1973, and that's Jessie Jackson up there on stage with him.

Jessie had a way of getting in front of cameras at the right time.

This is a really gross subject. But in 1968 Jessie was not up on the balcony of the Lorraine Motel in Memphis with Dr. King and Ralph Abernathy at the critical moment. The photo which shows that he was there was a publicity photo taken the day before.

But somehow, as the television crews were arriving, somehow Jessie must have gotten some blood, because it was smeared all over his shirt and he got in front of the cameras, and he was still wearing that same bloody shirt the next day on a television interview show. And his explanations for all of this have changed over the years.

Dr. King had already politely told news reporters that he was cutting Jackson loose. And King talked about the "band leader instinct", seeming to refer to Jackson.

nytimes.com

paraphrased from george carlin... if selling is legal and sex is legal... why isn't selling sex legal?

^ LOL - good one :)

Icey, what makes a guy a trick is how he talks to the girl, treating her like a prostitute.

My first time at a strip club engaging with a girl, Sunnyvale Brass Rail. As was the custom there I asked this dancer Cathy to sit and have a drink with me.

So she did and I introduced myself and asked her if we might go out some time.

"Sorry, I don't go out with customers."

Feeling that my honor was being attacked, but still not really understanding her, I proceeded to just talk about myself, quite matter of factly, not anything rehearsed.

So mostly just trying to restore my honor, I just took a cocktail napkin and wrote my name and home telephone number on it and and handed it to her.

Seeing now that I was not asking her for P4P or treating her like I think money buys her, she took it, and now standing, she held it out at arms length and looked down at it.

She said in an apologetic tone, "Well okay. You don't understand, I get hit on by 50 guys a night."

I did not understand that she meant p4p offers. But I still felt that my honor was being attacked. I decided to leave before it got any worse.

The next day I worked very late, forgetting about the matter. And this was long before cell phones, when women were much more careful about their phone numbers. Getting home at 10pm I saw a message on my old mechanical answering machine. I pressed the button, and there it was, her voice, "I want to see you!"

That was my first such experience, but it would be repeated many many times in our local strip clubs and in the AMPs of 3 counties. The most important thing is to never treat the girl as a prostitute.

You may end up giving her money, and there is nothing wrong with that. But so long as you never treat her like a prostitute, she will never see you as a trick.

SJG

1177 BC: The Year Civilization Collapsed (Eric Cline, PhD) youtube.com

His book: amazon.com