"...Seeing arrangement was fun but it is so expensive "
_____________
Yes, that $90 membership fee is a hefty investment for the average SD.
An alternative would be to start some sort of charitable organization. Donate $100 million to some cause like feeding the poor or cancer research or climate-change research. Make sure your donation is covered in the local press. Then arrange a charity gala and invite trendy movie stars and singers. Eligible SBs will flock to your event without any effort on your part. Who needs S(A)?
It is 90 bucks a month with a credit card, most people get suspended within two weeks and they keep charging your card. If you use a 1 time payment t is 270 bucks, that is a lot to lose when they suspend you
1) I've never been suspended from SA in over six years.
You move the conversation off the site once you make a connection.
2) EROS is probably one of the least reliable ways to meet someone ---there is nothing to validate that the pictures are of the women are not ten years old, actually their daughter, or before they started eating at McDonalds five times a day.
I still haven't cracked SA. The girls aren't above the attractive threshold and those that are want millions. If anyone has any tips for how to find something actual legit I'm all ears.
@Chaindog. Best place to find a sugar baby with "benefits" relationship is at a strip club. I do it all the time, and have for years! No need for SA or some other online scams! Also you see what you actually get. None of that bait with an old photo and when you meet her in person she's old and ugly!
So here's what you do...first go get yourself a burner phone (prepaid, non traceable phone). Second, go to strip club a real strip club. In other words not The Club in Tyngsboro or Macs2 in Billerica, sorry to tell you those two joints are lame! My recommendation would be one of the Providence clubs, Cadillac Lounge, Desire or Foxy. I've had success at all three of those clubs. Next just find a chick you like, tell her what you're looking for and even if she's not interested she'll probably give you a "referral" and other girls will approach you knowing what you're looking for. It's a very simple concept. And IME works all the time!
For those reading along outside the northeast- I'd recommend going to clubs that have young dancers and don't offer extras or have low mileage. Dancers at non-extra/low mileage clubs don't make much money. Thus the ladies are more hungry. Younger girls are almost always more adventurous and big risk takers because they haven't been in the business long enough to be jaded and haven't been around long ebough to have been screwed-over many times (pun intended:)
The two things I do these days are SA and strip clubs. Now that I've been doing arrangements for a while, I realize that my OTC relationship with basically all of my ATFs was pretty much a PPM arrangement (not the casual OTCs, but with ATFs). I'm a big believer.
I've had more luck in non-extras clubs than extras clubs as far as OTC. I didn't necessarily notice newer strippers are "more down" than experienced strippers for OTC, I'd have to think about it more to see if I really believe that. I pretty much ask whoever I like, regardless. I have found that the most frictionless way to ask about OTC is just find a natural way to slip into the conversation that you're on SA; some outrageous percentage of strippers (at least in this area) are on SA also, and they tend to light up and tell me that "I'm on SA too!" -- and now it's a negotiation. In the rare cases she doesn't take the bait, I'll just ask outright about OTC later.
"So would you say that baby strippers are actually more down for OTC than the experienced strippers?"
This is a dude who's gotten fat and happy on Providence strip clubs, which were basically whorehouses before the state legislature was humiliated into closing a loophole in the law that allowed indoor solicitation and minors doing more than they should be able to under any other laws outside of RI. Good for them, but you have to be a little more than alive with a pulse in other places to pull decent talent out of the clubs. It's been long enough where some of the clubs are essential back to their old business models, and hopefully they don't get a second smackdown like San Diego clubs did.
Yes, that has been my guess as to the explanation also. It does beg the question -- in cities where there's a mix of extras and non-extras clubs -- why a stripper has specifically chosen a non-extras club, if she's willing to go OTC to do extras. And I think the answer is:
- She can handpick who she does has sex with a little more carefully -- while extras girls can be choosey too, most seem to take on (almost) all comers.
- It's not true that girls in extras clubs are necessarily making more than girls in the non-extras club across town, at least in the high end non-extras club and even in the mid-level clubs. So a hot chick in a high end non-extras club might be having her cake and eating it too -- making nearly as much money for doing less in the mid-range non-extras club, plus hand-picking OTC for extra income here and there.
Secret Benefits is a decent alternative. It's free, but you buy credits to unlock messages. And the credits don't expire (or maybe they do, but in like a year), so you can spend about a month's worth of SA on SB and have that last over time.
Some chick messages you and you don't want to respond because her profile isn't to your liking? Just don't unlock the message.
SA is now more hassle than it's worth. Not sure about guys who get booted, they are probably messaging girls explicitly about pay for sex. Stupid. Years ago it was an OK site. There are a few alternates, just use Google, but none are great and most are a waste of time. These kind of site only work well if you are cash heavy and willing to tolerate females who put inflates high worth on themselves. After much time you will notice some profiles linger for years while some profiles come and go within 2 months never to be seen again.
I have never done the SD thing, in the past what I have done is find avenues to meet with girls who are open-minded and broke and in the first meet at least get light p4p bt by the 2nd meet at the latest FS p4p in the 200-300 range. Do this weekly and try to juggle 2-3 girls, focus in on the ones who like to hang out and not look at the clock. After a few weeks the process usually scrubs down to 1 girl who likes to come by any time I ask, enjoy dinner or a movie, have sex, cuddle, talk, then eventually leave. A while of this often leads to hanging out with each other off the clock and only occasionally p4p but most definitely 2 things distinguish this from a normal relationship: dating and cuddling usually never implies p4p but any time sex happens it's p4p and also all dating activities are paid for by me. Very occasionally the lines are blurred and the girl insists to pay for some dating activities. It is very easy to catch feelings and becomes very awkward to know what to do, with every action toward normalcy leading to a breakdown of the dynamic.
This process over the years has often been painful for me, as just about every girl I have done this with were open and lovable. They would not be girls I could initially get without p4p. 9 or sometimes 10 in looks but the best I can get in normal dating life would be 6 or 7. Meeting girls from SA or similar the results might be the same but the cost is huge in comparison. Nowadays with absurdly extreme feminist ideologies and ease-of-hookup social apps, even getting a 6 or 7 interested requires extreme effort and persistence. Anyone with serious money, SA is like shooting fish in a barrel, but not that many guys have such serious money. I make a decent living but the extra cash is only good for a conservatively paced p4p with occasional SC visits and occasional MP visits.
The company that owns SA also owns WhatsYourPrice which has a lot of the same time of girls but aspects are different - you pay for credits that never expire and then have to spend credits to open a conversation, but only if she accepts an initial offer for a date, which is negotiated directly on the site first. The turnover to meets is much higher on this site but going from that to anything more is seemingly near impossible. Based on experience so far as compared to SA, I've determined that 50% or more of accepted offers end up in at least a meet but 99% of the girls will only meet for dinner or similar at a public location and they will never do anything sexual, they will keep meeting men for first dates only to collect their lame $80-100 for the meet. The girls on WYP will also have this strange twist of acting like it's normal to get paid to meet for dates and nothing else happens. A lot of crazies as well. I think for any guys who have trouble talking to women, it may be good for that and just burn the money to go on 10 or 12 first dates. Do not ever pay more than $100 for a meet, nothing more will ever happen than a $100 meet. Some MILFs will meet up for $75 or $80. They all give the same BS story when talking over dinner, to pretend their way out of what the site is really for. In doing that, nothing ever ends up happening for them and you're likely to see the same profiles up for months and months. The only profiles that are very short lived are the extremely attractive ones that never accept anything under $300 to meet and give up quickly when they realize they're not getting free money even from saps.
The interesting side discussion here about choice from the sex worker side:
- Street hookers have little choice, with the primary choice just being whether the john is safe and not LE
- Brothel workers have no choice other that working or not working, though I'm not aware of any real brothels in the US other than Nevada
- Massage parlor workers have no choice about the customer but choice over how much of anything she wants to do, within the limits of what the establishment allows
- Strippers in the club seem to have less discretion concern over customers but do have clear choice on how far they are willing to go with a customer ITC and obviously absolute choice on who they are open to OTC with and what she does with him OTC
- Escorts have almost 0 choice on who they see and if they work for an agency have almost no choice on services offered
- Independent escorts have a lot ore flexibility on what they offer and who they see but their services are usually the same across-the-board with all customers. They, like agency escorts, got into it because they don't care very much about discretion over who they see and care more about the maximum money they can make within the limit of their comfort zone
- p4p girls who can be found in all walks of life and who don't depend on sex work exclusively will be hugely discretionary on who they see and what they do within their comfort zones but they are the hardest to find and take the most effort to convert
- SA and sugar baby girls are also discretionary but place inflated value on their self-worth and will usually not do p4p but seek some kid of set allowance for a fluid but generally accepted agreement
I've made this comment on here before but either I am walking on four leaf clover with SA or something is really off. I'm not saying it is perfect but the amount of times women have tried to scam me for up front meeting cost, not being the girl in the pictures or having GPS is really low compared to what I read on here.
I did learn something from Jeff however in that I see the link/banner for Whatsyourprice and often wondered if it was worth it.....obviously that is a large no.
I can count on one hand how many women have wanted money for a first meet. I don't need a single finger to count the number of times I have ever done so.
My answer and it is one I have used the few times it comes up is that I make x amount of money an hour. If you make that much I would think you wouldn't be on SA. I'm offering you to meet at a place of your choice and I am picking up the tab since I am doing the inviting. If you are not willing to invest an hour or two of your time to see if the two of us can come to an understanding on how to make your financial situation better than I wish you the best of luck and we probably are not a good match.
I've had a couple decide to meet me. One in the Philadelphia area I ended up seeing for the better part of a year until she finished college and moved to Florida.
-->"I've made this comment on here before but either I am walking on four leaf clover with SA or something is really off. I'm not saying it is perfect but the amount of times women have tried to scam me for up front meeting cost, not being the girl in the pictures or having GPS is really low compared to what I read on here. "
I'm with the others here. In general, my experience is: expect a decent percentage (15%-25%) to ask for payment just to go to the M&G, expect most girls to be 1/2 to a full point less attractive than their pics, and most importantly, expect a flake rate that exceeds whatever you've experienced with strippers (note on this last point: once you find a reliable SB, obviously there's no worry about flaking anymore. But expect to go through a lot of flakes before you get there).
-->"My answer and it is one I have used the few times it comes up is that I make x amount of money an hour. If you make that much I would think you wouldn't be on SA. I'm offering you to meet at a place of your choice and I am picking up the tab since I am doing the inviting. If you are not willing to invest an hour or two of your time to see if the two of us can come to an understanding on how to make your financial situation better than I wish you the best of luck and we probably are not a good match. "
I think that's a fine explanation, and I agree with it. But over the years, I've found that once an SB requests $ for the M&G, I've been able to talk her out of it zero times. So I no longer even try; once she asks for $ for the M&G, I just block her and move on to the next. Have you had any much luck talking these girls out of a payment for the M&G?
I while back I commented on my experience with SA, it wasn’t bad, I did meet a few hot women and never paid for a meet, the problem I found was the girls on SA were ducking flakes and delusional for the most part I did date two for a short time, I find strippers to be way hotter and much more fun.
I’m not really looking that hard ever I have a few friends with bennies that I’m very happy with.
JeffTuscl-->"- SA and sugar baby girls are also discretionary but place inflated value on their self-worth and will usually not do p4p but seek some kid of set allowance for a fluid but generally accepted agreement"
Lots of good points Jeff, but oddly, here's one I disagree with. I have NEVER had an SB not accept PPM, even if she proposes allowance first. If I were making the same point but with my experience, I'd say: all SBs will take PPM no matter what they say on their profile or whether they ask for allowance at first; but it will often come with a request for a commitment on frequency (e.g., we see each other once a week, so she can count on 4x$PPM each month)
yup, I never pay for a M&G, outside of MAYBE some Uber money if necessary.
There's a ton of flakes on there, a ton that "my friend made me set up a profile" who aren't serious, and a ton that look nothing like their pics. The term "curvy" should be stricken from vocabulary until the fatties can stop using it. I've had no less than 3 girls show up EASILY 100# more than anticipated. UGH. I mean, they were all nice girls, but definitely not my type.
I'm the one paying, so I feel I've earned the right to be picky and choosey with who I'm going to see. They are receiving the $$ to overlook my middle-aged body and pretend like she likes me. :)
>>> "Nowadays with absurdly extreme feminist ideologies and ease-of-hookup social apps, even getting a 6 or 7 interested requires extreme effort and persistence."
I was just comparing it to regular life. If I could get a 9 or 10 to date me without some other lure, just for me being me, I would not even be drawn to the world of SC, MP or any other form of p4p. I don't think it has so much to do with the true value of who I am but more about society at large which places a huge importance on superficial values while simultaneously pretending it's not about such values - for example the contradiction of using sexuality as a lure yet publicly lambasting people who fall for the lure and act astonished when a sense of entitlement or desire is projected when such sexuality is exploited.
Anyone on this site is essentially a victim of this in one form of another. Women using their sexuality in the extreme to lure for attention, then mocking men who are drawn to it by labeling them as "thirsty". Or #MeToo hypocrisy and conflating mild male behaviors with the extremity of rape. This has left most millennial age men with a confusion and fear over overt projections of sexual interest, subsequently leaving most women confused about how to behave to attract a man they want. Modern feminism is teaching them that it's more than OK to be project extreme sexuality but to reject men who play into that sexuality.
>>> "I have NEVER had an SB not accept PPM, even if she proposes allowance first. If I were making the same point but with my experience, I'd say: all SBs will take PPM no matter what they say on their profile or whether they ask for allowance at first; but it will often come with a request for a commitment on frequency (e.g., we see each other once a week, so she can count on 4x$PPM each month)"
Not disagreeing with this, I think it depends on what you yourself are seeking and what you draw in and filter out. To me a girl who sets explicit expectations that I am not yet willing to agree to until after we meet, is essentially the same as an allowance-based SD-SB relationship. It is like asking a girl out on a date and she won't go out on a date unless you both agree how often you plan to see each other, and at what kind of times and places.
When I filter these girls out, I am left with a much smaller pool to choose from. I have noticed that on the few occasions I expanded to go ahead and meet these high expectation girls, I never saw them more than 1 meet as I found them overall annoying, demanding, superficial, and someone I would hate to spend any time with.
I had ONE that didn't want to start at PPM, but rather an allowance. Her number was twice what I was budgeting, but her frequency was too. So I halved both and we came to an agreement.
Glad I did, she's given me hand-down the BEST blow jobs in my life, and that's counting escorts. All at the age of 21 and hot as fuck.
Sadly, she left me for a vanilla boyfriend. If she texted me right now and wanted to start back up I'd drop everything and say hell yes.
Sugar Babies are basically the most delusional type of hoe. A hoe always has to place a value on herself, but she has to bring something to the table to make herself worth it. Socalled sugar babies bring nothing but extreme entitlement. But I don't blame them, I blame the losers who enable them.
@ Subraman----I've had it happen infrequently but a couple of times yes I have had luck in changing their mind about an initial meeting.
The one I mentioned in my previous comment we ended up seeing each other for nearly a year whenever I was in town. Actually we would joke about it now and then. She moved to Central Florida a few years back after finishing college so I really haven't communicated for a couple of years.
I've been flaked on a few times, had one incident where the girl who showed up was ten years older ( hard years) and 30 lbs heavier.......the meeting ended pretty quickly but overall my success rate has been good.
I've never had to block anyone to date and I do sometimes end up connecting with someone who at first attempt it didn't seem worth the effort. ( so I'm glad I didn't block them after first pass)
I basically use SA in three areas and I'm very upfront with the women I will not be around every week. I come into town for a few days, connect with them once or twice depending on my and their availability, and leave.
Occasionally I'll have a long trip planned and will see if I can find someone who wants to be a tour guide and companion for a week
(works in Las Vegas)
I don't use SA in NYC----about the only place I've not had much luck and from what I understand from a few contacts I'm not alone with the observation it isn't a easy place to find someone reasonable expectations.
Subra..."Did you start off with increments to lower your risk (e.g., weekly allowance or bi-monthly allowance), or just bite the bullet and go the whole month?"
I bit the bullet. Well, we had a partial month first. I offered her about 60% for the remainder of the month, and she delivered. Then gave her the full amount for the next month at the beginning, and she again delivered.
OMG. I had one of those potentially dangerous experiences tonight meeting up with a new SB. Two thugs walked in within minutes of my arrival. No violence but could have easily gone that way. Never had anything like this in my life.
I've read through all the tuscl SA discussions I could find, but not a whole lot out there about specific advice to make sure this doesn't happen. Of course common sense rules, but seeing if you guys have a set of rules you follow to make sure you're safe.
For those that have success, what steps do you make sure you follow so you don't encounter violent boyfriend schemes?
-->"OMG. I had one of those potentially dangerous experiences tonight meeting up with a new SB. Two thugs walked in within minutes of my arrival. No violence but could have easily gone that way. Never had anything like this in my life. "
I don't understand, they walked into where? And by "meeting up", did you follow the norm of an initial platonic meet & greet in public (in which case, I don't see what the safety issue is)? Why did you think the thugs were there for you? Not trying to be difficult, just don't understand what happened
So I met her on SA. I asked communication to go to texting. She agreed.
She invited to have me over for drinks. I asked for a selfie and she sent. Seemed to be the same person. We agreed to a time and I stopped by at the address she gave. Not far from the local University and it felt relatively safe. Not upper class neighborhood though.
She delayed our meeting 1/2 hr but thought that can just be the nature of flakes in this game. So I stayed the course. She then texted saying it would be $200. I said how about $100 for bbbj cim. She agreed.
The rate seemed in line with what I've seen at certain clubs, but now reading this discussion post, that maybe should have been a bigger red flag.
She met me outside the house and walked me in the back door. She looked similar to the pic -18-22 years old maybe - but much slimmer and her hair was up so I wasn't sure if it was her. Her SA profile said curvy. She actually was very petite and slender in real life. I suppose its not all that relevant.
We walk through the back door and the house is a dump. I immediately ask if anyone else is home and am very nervous. She says they're out at work. It's 12midnight. Right in the TV room is a futon and she says she likes to have a quick chat first. I am a bit more nervous as a few red flags are adding up in head.
Within 2 minutes of sitting down and chatting, a door opens up behind me and two AA scary looking dudes with hoodies walk in. The girl jumps over to the other side of the futon. The dudes say to her "who's this n**** " (I'm white). My clothes are all still on and hers are too. She and I say we are just friends. He then turns to me and says she's only 17 (no way she was under 18 and her SA profile says she's 22). They then tell me to empty my pockets. I do. I purposely only brought $100 and $10 for the tip. No credit cards and no id and no other cash.
They never flashed guns but I continually was checking out what they were doing with their hands in their pockets. The whole interaction lasted maybe 2 min, but felt like 10.
I'm pretty calm and just trying to think of the best thing to do. They finally say get out and walk behind me.
They then walk behind me down the driveway. And I purposely walk past my car since I didn't want them to take whatever else I had in my car.
I got to a public well lit place with people around then called an Uber to take me to my car. And made him stay until I drove away.
One thing (of many) I learned is to be very wary of anyone on SA that has recently joined as they probably just regularly open new accounts after their Sugan Daddy rats them out.
Ah, gotcha! Without seeming harsh, you basically threw all concern and common sense around your own safety out the window. So, the standard norm and safety guideline for meeting an SB for the first time -- and I emphasize SB, I realize many guys are using SA just as a way to find escort-like activities -- is an UNPAID platonic meeting in a public place. First intimate date in a hotel room. There's a lot of good reasons for this:
- SA is absolutely full of scammers, criminals, hustlers, and rinsers. Many of those won't invest their time in an initial unpaid meeting. You'll weed out 90% or more of the bad actors right there
- Given the above, meeting in public is essential. It doesn't matter whether you're looking for an SB or for an escort -- meet her in public first. This goes 10x for SBs; it is not safe for an SB to invite a stranger to her house for the first date. I'd raise an eyebrow over just the invitation.
- Given the above, safety-wise initial date in a hotel room is similarly a good practice. Hell, I've even done the initial platonic uncompensated meeting, and it went so awesome that we both agreed to have sex immediately. No thanks, I don't want to go back to your place, let's grab a hotel.
With all due respect, SA is not "safe" on any level. You need to show common sense and care for your own safety. If you want to use SA to find escorts, that's totally your choice; but you do need to be smart about it. Meet in public. Have sex the first time in a hotel room you obtained.
" If you want to use SA to find escorts" Unless you are looking to pay for platonic companionship, what else are you going to find on SA? I think that's how guys get themselves in trouble. This notion that SA girls are innocent young girls looking for a helping hand from a father figure, or something. I have never understood the distinction. A low volume prostitute is still a prostitute. If you are dealing with someone willing to sell sex, you better keep your head in the game.
Justin: to me you're conflating being in the sex industry, with offering the exact same experience. A stripper, professional dominatrix, escort, AMP girl, independent FBSM girl, camgirl, and sugarbaby are all in the sex industry. Are they all offering exactly the same experience? Not to me. A professional dominatrix is offering a completely different experience than a camgirl; an escort is offering a completely different experience than a (classic style) SB. I can say this definitively -- I do not like the escort experience and don't patronize escorts. My experience with SBs is totally different. The notion that "SA girls are innocent young girls looking for a helping hand from a father figure" is a strawman you set up; you can knock it down if you want, but I don't give you any credit for it :)
Camgirls are not FBSM providers are not strippers. You'll get a different experience with each, there are different norms, etc. They're all part of the sex industry, but we have different words for them, because what they're offering are completely different from each other.
Yes, it's absolutely the case that there are escorts (by which I mean, women offering a completely straightforward, transactional, $-for-time-with-anyone) experience on SA. I use the term "escorts" for them, because it's exactly an escort-like experience. An SB isn't better or worse, and she's certainly part of the sex industry, but we have a different word because the experience is different, the norms are way different (no such thing as a platonic uncompensated meet and greet with an escort, for the most part)
@Subraman Didn't mean to step on your toes. Certainly, there is a huge difference between a high end courtesan and a street ho. There are as many flavors of prostitution as there are tastes. A stripper, professional dominatrix, or camgirl may do their jobs without actually having insertive sex. I am kind of lumping girls that fuck for money into one category whether they sell by the act or by a block of time. My only point is if you are dealing with a sex worker of any ilk, ie an illegal activity in most jurisdictions, you can't afford to be complacent or naive.
I definitely agree with the last point. If anything, I'd strengthen it up. Whatever illusions anyone has about SA, you'll run into far more outright scammers there than you will ROBs in a club, and that's not even counting rinsers (probably more analagous to ROBs), etc. You sleepwalk through it, the best outcome is you'll merely get rinsed
@PaulDrake Yup I left them the $110. And 15 seconds into it once the guys walked in, I was sure it was a setup.
@Sub And looks like meeting in public is one of many takeaways from this. I think my previous positive escort experiences in London and Cancun (where's it's totally legal) gave me a false sense of security. And no kidding about the red flags. I had a few that i intentionally ignored.
Yeah, SA is absolutely not safe. Don't get me wrong, you find the right girl, it's awesome. But until you know you've found the right girl, stick to the best practices, IMO.
Since the decline of SCs in this area over the past couple of years, aside from looking for "legit" SBs, I sometimes use it for shorter-term things, but I still start with the initial public meeting, even if we end up going to a hotel -- hotel, not her place -- afterwards.
With escorts, you have the advantage that you can often find reviews, or if she asks you for a reference, you can always ask your reference escort whether she knows her. On SA, totally anonymous, you are starting off with less research than a random escort, IMO.
I was more conscious at the time about making sure I wasn't going to be recognized and my identity and activities revealed. Also was more conscious of the girl matching in the photo. Didn't really think about my safety.
Whether it's a stripper, a SB, or an escort of any variety, it would take a *very* long time (and a lot of good behavior) before I trusted the girl enough to go to her place or let her come to my place.
Even then, I'm not sure it would ever happen.
I know some guys on here balk at paying hotel fees in addition to what the girl gets, but for me the peace of mind is worth it.
-->"Whether it's a stripper, a SB, or an escort of any variety, it would take a *very* long time (and a lot of good behavior) before I trusted the girl enough to go to her place or let her come to my place."
@Sweethard: "She then texted saying it would be $200. I said how about $100 for bbbj cim. She agreed."
_____________________
So you made a deal, documenting what you plan to pay and what sex acts are involved before you've even met her in person. Like countless other posts on TUSCL, you're using the site *exactly* like Backpage and you can pretty much expect what transpired. I'm not judging anyone for looking for cheap cheap sex -- but that's not what SA has in mind and if enough people use the site that way it will ruin it for the rest of us. You're also sampling from the dregs that SA has to offer.
As @Subra points out, one or more unpaid platonic dates weeds out most of the Backpage escorts. I would guess more like 99% than 90% if you include careful screening and common sense.
My best arrangements (two that lasted over a year) started with a quick Starbucks date. I've done first-dates at restaurants, too, but it's a waste of time and money if she shows up 30 lbs heavier and 10 yrs older. I had two experiences like that in August.
New SB now who lives in Vail and she comes over twice a month. Cute, petite, blonde 23-yrs-old. I paid for her STD panel and presented my test results, too. Trust her over at my place and it has very little to do with saving on hotel bills. Enjoy showing off my house and I've never had a single problem.
I've never had an interest in the slam pigs that advertised locally on Backpage (around here, BP was the online equivalent to the cantina scene in Star Wars...) . But if that's your thing, then that is the site I see referenced most often.
58 comments
_____________
Yes, that $90 membership fee is a hefty investment for the average SD.
An alternative would be to start some sort of charitable organization. Donate $100 million to some cause like feeding the poor or cancer research or climate-change research. Make sure your donation is covered in the local press. Then arrange a charity gala and invite trendy movie stars and singers. Eligible SBs will flock to your event without any effort on your part. Who needs S(A)?
You move the conversation off the site once you make a connection.
2) EROS is probably one of the least reliable ways to meet someone ---there is nothing to validate that the pictures are of the women are not ten years old, actually their daughter, or before they started eating at McDonalds five times a day.
So here's what you do...first go get yourself a burner phone (prepaid, non traceable phone). Second, go to strip club a real strip club. In other words not The Club in Tyngsboro or Macs2 in Billerica, sorry to tell you those two joints are lame! My recommendation would be one of the Providence clubs, Cadillac Lounge, Desire or Foxy. I've had success at all three of those clubs. Next just find a chick you like, tell her what you're looking for and even if she's not interested she'll probably give you a "referral" and other girls will approach you knowing what you're looking for. It's a very simple concept. And IME works all the time!
For those reading along outside the northeast- I'd recommend going to clubs that have young dancers and don't offer extras or have low mileage. Dancers at non-extra/low mileage clubs don't make much money. Thus the ladies are more hungry. Younger girls are almost always more adventurous and big risk takers because they haven't been in the business long enough to be jaded and haven't been around long ebough to have been screwed-over many times (pun intended:)
I've had more luck in non-extras clubs than extras clubs as far as OTC. I didn't necessarily notice newer strippers are "more down" than experienced strippers for OTC, I'd have to think about it more to see if I really believe that. I pretty much ask whoever I like, regardless. I have found that the most frictionless way to ask about OTC is just find a natural way to slip into the conversation that you're on SA; some outrageous percentage of strippers (at least in this area) are on SA also, and they tend to light up and tell me that "I'm on SA too!" -- and now it's a negotiation. In the rare cases she doesn't take the bait, I'll just ask outright about OTC later.
This is a dude who's gotten fat and happy on Providence strip clubs, which were basically whorehouses before the state legislature was humiliated into closing a loophole in the law that allowed indoor solicitation and minors doing more than they should be able to under any other laws outside of RI. Good for them, but you have to be a little more than alive with a pulse in other places to pull decent talent out of the clubs. It's been long enough where some of the clubs are essential back to their old business models, and hopefully they don't get a second smackdown like San Diego clubs did.
- She can handpick who she does has sex with a little more carefully -- while extras girls can be choosey too, most seem to take on (almost) all comers.
- It's not true that girls in extras clubs are necessarily making more than girls in the non-extras club across town, at least in the high end non-extras club and even in the mid-level clubs. So a hot chick in a high end non-extras club might be having her cake and eating it too -- making nearly as much money for doing less in the mid-range non-extras club, plus hand-picking OTC for extra income here and there.
All just navel contemplating
Some chick messages you and you don't want to respond because her profile isn't to your liking? Just don't unlock the message.
I have never done the SD thing, in the past what I have done is find avenues to meet with girls who are open-minded and broke and in the first meet at least get light p4p bt by the 2nd meet at the latest FS p4p in the 200-300 range. Do this weekly and try to juggle 2-3 girls, focus in on the ones who like to hang out and not look at the clock. After a few weeks the process usually scrubs down to 1 girl who likes to come by any time I ask, enjoy dinner or a movie, have sex, cuddle, talk, then eventually leave. A while of this often leads to hanging out with each other off the clock and only occasionally p4p but most definitely 2 things distinguish this from a normal relationship: dating and cuddling usually never implies p4p but any time sex happens it's p4p and also all dating activities are paid for by me. Very occasionally the lines are blurred and the girl insists to pay for some dating activities. It is very easy to catch feelings and becomes very awkward to know what to do, with every action toward normalcy leading to a breakdown of the dynamic.
This process over the years has often been painful for me, as just about every girl I have done this with were open and lovable. They would not be girls I could initially get without p4p. 9 or sometimes 10 in looks but the best I can get in normal dating life would be 6 or 7. Meeting girls from SA or similar the results might be the same but the cost is huge in comparison. Nowadays with absurdly extreme feminist ideologies and ease-of-hookup social apps, even getting a 6 or 7 interested requires extreme effort and persistence. Anyone with serious money, SA is like shooting fish in a barrel, but not that many guys have such serious money. I make a decent living but the extra cash is only good for a conservatively paced p4p with occasional SC visits and occasional MP visits.
The company that owns SA also owns WhatsYourPrice which has a lot of the same time of girls but aspects are different - you pay for credits that never expire and then have to spend credits to open a conversation, but only if she accepts an initial offer for a date, which is negotiated directly on the site first. The turnover to meets is much higher on this site but going from that to anything more is seemingly near impossible. Based on experience so far as compared to SA, I've determined that 50% or more of accepted offers end up in at least a meet but 99% of the girls will only meet for dinner or similar at a public location and they will never do anything sexual, they will keep meeting men for first dates only to collect their lame $80-100 for the meet. The girls on WYP will also have this strange twist of acting like it's normal to get paid to meet for dates and nothing else happens. A lot of crazies as well. I think for any guys who have trouble talking to women, it may be good for that and just burn the money to go on 10 or 12 first dates. Do not ever pay more than $100 for a meet, nothing more will ever happen than a $100 meet. Some MILFs will meet up for $75 or $80. They all give the same BS story when talking over dinner, to pretend their way out of what the site is really for. In doing that, nothing ever ends up happening for them and you're likely to see the same profiles up for months and months. The only profiles that are very short lived are the extremely attractive ones that never accept anything under $300 to meet and give up quickly when they realize they're not getting free money even from saps.
- Street hookers have little choice, with the primary choice just being whether the john is safe and not LE
- Brothel workers have no choice other that working or not working, though I'm not aware of any real brothels in the US other than Nevada
- Massage parlor workers have no choice about the customer but choice over how much of anything she wants to do, within the limits of what the establishment allows
- Strippers in the club seem to have less discretion concern over customers but do have clear choice on how far they are willing to go with a customer ITC and obviously absolute choice on who they are open to OTC with and what she does with him OTC
- Escorts have almost 0 choice on who they see and if they work for an agency have almost no choice on services offered
- Independent escorts have a lot ore flexibility on what they offer and who they see but their services are usually the same across-the-board with all customers. They, like agency escorts, got into it because they don't care very much about discretion over who they see and care more about the maximum money they can make within the limit of their comfort zone
- p4p girls who can be found in all walks of life and who don't depend on sex work exclusively will be hugely discretionary on who they see and what they do within their comfort zones but they are the hardest to find and take the most effort to convert
- SA and sugar baby girls are also discretionary but place inflated value on their self-worth and will usually not do p4p but seek some kid of set allowance for a fluid but generally accepted agreement
I did learn something from Jeff however in that I see the link/banner for Whatsyourprice and often wondered if it was worth it.....obviously that is a large no.
I can count on one hand how many women have wanted money for a first meet. I don't need a single finger to count the number of times I have ever done so.
My answer and it is one I have used the few times it comes up is that I make x amount of money an hour. If you make that much I would think you wouldn't be on SA. I'm offering you to meet at a place of your choice and I am picking up the tab since I am doing the inviting. If you are not willing to invest an hour or two of your time to see if the two of us can come to an understanding on how to make your financial situation better than I wish you the best of luck and we probably are not a good match.
I've had a couple decide to meet me. One in the Philadelphia area I ended up seeing for the better part of a year until she finished college and moved to Florida.
I'm with the others here. In general, my experience is: expect a decent percentage (15%-25%) to ask for payment just to go to the M&G, expect most girls to be 1/2 to a full point less attractive than their pics, and most importantly, expect a flake rate that exceeds whatever you've experienced with strippers (note on this last point: once you find a reliable SB, obviously there's no worry about flaking anymore. But expect to go through a lot of flakes before you get there).
-->"My answer and it is one I have used the few times it comes up is that I make x amount of money an hour. If you make that much I would think you wouldn't be on SA. I'm offering you to meet at a place of your choice and I am picking up the tab since I am doing the inviting. If you are not willing to invest an hour or two of your time to see if the two of us can come to an understanding on how to make your financial situation better than I wish you the best of luck and we probably are not a good match. "
I think that's a fine explanation, and I agree with it. But over the years, I've found that once an SB requests $ for the M&G, I've been able to talk her out of it zero times. So I no longer even try; once she asks for $ for the M&G, I just block her and move on to the next. Have you had any much luck talking these girls out of a payment for the M&G?
I’m not really looking that hard ever I have a few friends with bennies that I’m very happy with.
Lots of good points Jeff, but oddly, here's one I disagree with. I have NEVER had an SB not accept PPM, even if she proposes allowance first. If I were making the same point but with my experience, I'd say: all SBs will take PPM no matter what they say on their profile or whether they ask for allowance at first; but it will often come with a request for a commitment on frequency (e.g., we see each other once a week, so she can count on 4x$PPM each month)
There's a ton of flakes on there, a ton that "my friend made me set up a profile" who aren't serious, and a ton that look nothing like their pics. The term "curvy" should be stricken from vocabulary until the fatties can stop using it. I've had no less than 3 girls show up EASILY 100# more than anticipated. UGH. I mean, they were all nice girls, but definitely not my type.
I'm the one paying, so I feel I've earned the right to be picky and choosey with who I'm going to see. They are receiving the $$ to overlook my middle-aged body and pretend like she likes me. :)
I was just comparing it to regular life. If I could get a 9 or 10 to date me without some other lure, just for me being me, I would not even be drawn to the world of SC, MP or any other form of p4p. I don't think it has so much to do with the true value of who I am but more about society at large which places a huge importance on superficial values while simultaneously pretending it's not about such values - for example the contradiction of using sexuality as a lure yet publicly lambasting people who fall for the lure and act astonished when a sense of entitlement or desire is projected when such sexuality is exploited.
Anyone on this site is essentially a victim of this in one form of another. Women using their sexuality in the extreme to lure for attention, then mocking men who are drawn to it by labeling them as "thirsty". Or #MeToo hypocrisy and conflating mild male behaviors with the extremity of rape. This has left most millennial age men with a confusion and fear over overt projections of sexual interest, subsequently leaving most women confused about how to behave to attract a man they want. Modern feminism is teaching them that it's more than OK to be project extreme sexuality but to reject men who play into that sexuality.
Not disagreeing with this, I think it depends on what you yourself are seeking and what you draw in and filter out. To me a girl who sets explicit expectations that I am not yet willing to agree to until after we meet, is essentially the same as an allowance-based SD-SB relationship. It is like asking a girl out on a date and she won't go out on a date unless you both agree how often you plan to see each other, and at what kind of times and places.
When I filter these girls out, I am left with a much smaller pool to choose from. I have noticed that on the few occasions I expanded to go ahead and meet these high expectation girls, I never saw them more than 1 meet as I found them overall annoying, demanding, superficial, and someone I would hate to spend any time with.
Glad I did, she's given me hand-down the BEST blow jobs in my life, and that's counting escorts. All at the age of 21 and hot as fuck.
Sadly, she left me for a vanilla boyfriend. If she texted me right now and wanted to start back up I'd drop everything and say hell yes.
The one I mentioned in my previous comment we ended up seeing each other for nearly a year whenever I was in town. Actually we would joke about it now and then. She moved to Central Florida a few years back after finishing college so I really haven't communicated for a couple of years.
I've been flaked on a few times, had one incident where the girl who showed up was ten years older ( hard years) and 30 lbs heavier.......the meeting ended pretty quickly but overall my success rate has been good.
I've never had to block anyone to date and I do sometimes end up connecting with someone who at first attempt it didn't seem worth the effort. ( so I'm glad I didn't block them after first pass)
I basically use SA in three areas and I'm very upfront with the women I will not be around every week. I come into town for a few days, connect with them once or twice depending on my and their availability, and leave.
Occasionally I'll have a long trip planned and will see if I can find someone who wants to be a tour guide and companion for a week
(works in Las Vegas)
I don't use SA in NYC----about the only place I've not had much luck and from what I understand from a few contacts I'm not alone with the observation it isn't a easy place to find someone reasonable expectations.
SJG
The Jeff Healey Band - Live In Belgium (Full Concert 1993)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_ufNFTA…
TJ Street
https://farm8.static.flickr.com/7318/961…
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/9620…
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5449/96322…
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2849/96290…
The Jeff Healy Band Hell To Pay (FULL ALBUM) HQ (good!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59h1M5xr…
The Jeff Healey Band - I Can't Get My Hands On You
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X1Glm72…
Border crossing times:
https://bwt.cbp.gov/index.html?com=1&pas…
I bit the bullet. Well, we had a partial month first. I offered her about 60% for the remainder of the month, and she delivered. Then gave her the full amount for the next month at the beginning, and she again delivered.
Thanks Warrenboy75, I'll listen more and find more videos.
SJG
I've read through all the tuscl SA discussions I could find, but not a whole lot out there about
specific advice to make sure this doesn't happen. Of course common sense rules, but seeing if you guys have a set of rules you follow to make sure you're safe.
For those that have success, what steps do you make sure you follow so you don't encounter violent boyfriend schemes?
I don't understand, they walked into where? And by "meeting up", did you follow the norm of an initial platonic meet & greet in public (in which case, I don't see what the safety issue is)? Why did you think the thugs were there for you? Not trying to be difficult, just don't understand what happened
She invited to have me over for drinks. I asked for a selfie and she sent. Seemed to be the same person. We agreed to a time and I stopped by at the address she gave. Not far from the local University and it felt relatively safe. Not upper class neighborhood though.
She delayed our meeting 1/2 hr but thought that can just be the nature of flakes in this game. So I stayed the course. She then texted saying it would be $200. I said how about $100 for bbbj cim. She agreed.
The rate seemed in line with what I've seen at certain clubs, but now reading this discussion post, that maybe should have been a bigger red flag.
She met me outside the house and walked me in the back door. She looked similar to the pic -18-22 years old maybe - but much slimmer and her hair was up so I wasn't sure if it was her. Her SA profile said curvy. She actually was very petite and slender in real life. I suppose its not all that relevant.
We walk through the back door and the house is a dump. I immediately ask if anyone else is home and am very nervous. She says they're out at work. It's 12midnight. Right in the TV room is a futon and she says she likes to have a quick chat first. I am a bit more nervous as a few red flags are adding up in head.
Within 2 minutes of sitting down and chatting, a door opens up behind me and two AA scary looking dudes with hoodies walk in. The girl jumps over to the other side of the futon. The dudes say to her "who's this n**** " (I'm white). My clothes are all still on and hers are too. She and I say we are just friends. He then turns to me and says she's only 17 (no way she was under 18 and her SA profile says she's 22). They then tell me to empty my pockets. I do. I purposely only brought $100 and $10 for the tip. No credit cards and no id and no other cash.
They never flashed guns but I continually was checking out what they were doing with their hands in their pockets. The whole interaction lasted maybe 2 min, but felt like 10.
I'm pretty calm and just trying to think of the best thing to do. They finally say get out and walk behind me.
They then walk behind me down the driveway. And I purposely walk past my car since I didn't want them to take whatever else I had in my car.
I got to a public well lit place with people around then called an Uber to take me to my car. And made him stay until I drove away.
One thing (of many) I learned is to be very wary of anyone on SA that has recently joined as they probably just regularly open new accounts after their Sugan Daddy rats them out.
Ah, gotcha! Without seeming harsh, you basically threw all concern and common sense around your own safety out the window. So, the standard norm and safety guideline for meeting an SB for the first time -- and I emphasize SB, I realize many guys are using SA just as a way to find escort-like activities -- is an UNPAID platonic meeting in a public place. First intimate date in a hotel room. There's a lot of good reasons for this:
- SA is absolutely full of scammers, criminals, hustlers, and rinsers. Many of those won't invest their time in an initial unpaid meeting. You'll weed out 90% or more of the bad actors right there
- Given the above, meeting in public is essential. It doesn't matter whether you're looking for an SB or for an escort -- meet her in public first. This goes 10x for SBs; it is not safe for an SB to invite a stranger to her house for the first date. I'd raise an eyebrow over just the invitation.
- Given the above, safety-wise initial date in a hotel room is similarly a good practice. Hell, I've even done the initial platonic uncompensated meeting, and it went so awesome that we both agreed to have sex immediately. No thanks, I don't want to go back to your place, let's grab a hotel.
With all due respect, SA is not "safe" on any level. You need to show common sense and care for your own safety. If you want to use SA to find escorts, that's totally your choice; but you do need to be smart about it. Meet in public. Have sex the first time in a hotel room you obtained.
Unless you are looking to pay for platonic companionship, what else are you going to find on SA? I think that's how guys get themselves in trouble. This notion that SA girls are innocent young girls looking for a helping hand from a father figure, or something. I have never understood the distinction. A low volume prostitute is still a prostitute. If you are dealing with someone willing to sell sex, you better keep your head in the game.
Camgirls are not FBSM providers are not strippers. You'll get a different experience with each, there are different norms, etc. They're all part of the sex industry, but we have different words for them, because what they're offering are completely different from each other.
Yes, it's absolutely the case that there are escorts (by which I mean, women offering a completely straightforward, transactional, $-for-time-with-anyone) experience on SA. I use the term "escorts" for them, because it's exactly an escort-like experience. An SB isn't better or worse, and she's certainly part of the sex industry, but we have a different word because the experience is different, the norms are way different (no such thing as a platonic uncompensated meet and greet with an escort, for the most part)
Yup I left them the $110. And 15 seconds into it once the guys walked in, I was sure it was a setup.
@Sub And looks like meeting in public is one of many takeaways from this. I think my previous positive escort experiences in London and Cancun (where's it's totally legal) gave me a false sense of security. And no kidding about the red flags. I had a few that i intentionally ignored.
Since the decline of SCs in this area over the past couple of years, aside from looking for "legit" SBs, I sometimes use it for shorter-term things, but I still start with the initial public meeting, even if we end up going to a hotel -- hotel, not her place -- afterwards.
With escorts, you have the advantage that you can often find reviews, or if she asks you for a reference, you can always ask your reference escort whether she knows her. On SA, totally anonymous, you are starting off with less research than a random escort, IMO.
You can bet that will never happen again.
Even then, I'm not sure it would ever happen.
I know some guys on here balk at paying hotel fees in addition to what the girl gets, but for me the peace of mind is worth it.
Cost of doing business.
Fuck yes.
_____________________
So you made a deal, documenting what you plan to pay and what sex acts are involved before you've even met her in person. Like countless other posts on TUSCL, you're using the site *exactly* like Backpage and you can pretty much expect what transpired. I'm not judging anyone for looking for cheap cheap sex -- but that's not what SA has in mind and if enough people use the site that way it will ruin it for the rest of us. You're also sampling from the dregs that SA has to offer.
As @Subra points out, one or more unpaid platonic dates weeds out most of the Backpage escorts. I would guess more like 99% than 90% if you include careful screening and common sense.
My best arrangements (two that lasted over a year) started with a quick Starbucks date. I've done first-dates at restaurants, too, but it's a waste of time and money if she shows up 30 lbs heavier and 10 yrs older. I had two experiences like that in August.
New SB now who lives in Vail and she comes over twice a month. Cute, petite, blonde 23-yrs-old. I paid for her STD panel and presented my test results, too. Trust her over at my place and it has very little to do with saving on hotel bills. Enjoy showing off my house and I've never had a single problem.
http://skipthegames.com
I've never had an interest in the slam pigs that advertised locally on Backpage (around here, BP was the online equivalent to the cantina scene in Star Wars...) . But if that's your thing, then that is the site I see referenced most often.