Off Topic: Law enforcement

My thought is you need to try and find out who that guy is and offer to be a defense witness.

One of my thoughts was writing my name and phone number on a slip of paper and going out there and handing it to the guy and offering to be a witness but I didn't want to end up getting myself in trouble. There's basically a law against everything and I could have been hit with a BS charge, I know if the cops want to fuck with you they will.

^I agree with DoctorEvil.

So you didn't see a breathalyzer administered?

Also, what is important is what the driver was stopped for. If there is dashcam footage (which the police SHOULD have and would be obligated to give the tape to a defense attorney if requested by that attorney), the footage will show if the man should've been pulled over in the first place; if the answer is no, it could be dismissed via surpression of evidence.

We don't know what his BAC was, or why he was stopped. We just know that you saw an arrest-happy cop administer a field sobriety test that, to you, it looked like he passed.

And for the record, cops will often still administer a breathalyzer even if the person passes their field sobriety test. It depends on the cop, his mood, and the looks and attitude of the person who is pulled over.

I agree with doctorevil, but it might be hard to find and depending on the what the blood alcohol level comes back at, it might be moot. He may have also refused the breathalyzer which in some states automatically gets you arrested.

I did not see a breathalyzer.

Sounds like a drug bust or something.

And good point rh, he may have refused a breathalyzer which is automatic but from what I saw he looked fine and should have passed. Granted i'm not a "trained professional" but to me it looked like the trooper just wanted to hit his quota.

@ chess, i watched him get frisked after he was cuffed, nothing came out of his pockets and the trooper did not look inside the car.

Well, if you think the guy was not over the legal limit, hopefully he was illegally stopped and gets good representation so it can get thrown out. Or perhaps they administered the breathalyzer at the station, he passed, and they let him go.

I'm sure everything was on tape. Nothing wrong with offering to testify to what you witnessed. A deposition might help in a plea.

I was busted for DUI once when I was not over the legal limit, it was a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It was reduced without a lawyer but still cost me several hundred dollars.

That's why even though I thought what I saw earlier was wrong, it's one of the reasons I stood out of it.

A few years back the state patrol pulled me off the interstate in one of the western states for supposedly not using a turn signal when switching lanes (I was not even changing lanes), called in the K-9 unit, and made me get out of the car and sit in the police cruiser. The dogs did not find anything, but the highway patrolmen lied and said the dog smelled something. They proceeded to rip my truck apart and look through everything. One cop was trying to rip my dashboard apart. Another cop was crawling underneath looking for something. After about 20 minutes, they find nothing. They keep lying to me, telling me I should tell them where the drugs. I told them I never touched a drug in my life and despise druggies. I don't even take Advil. I told them I just have some bottles of French liquor they could take if they were a problem, which they did not care about and obviously saw when they tornadoed through my vehicle. They then accused me of not owning my own car like I was driving a stolen vehicle or running narcotics for some cartel. Eventually they gave up their bullshit, and all three cruisers sped off. I filed a complaint with the state highway patrol and even sent a complaint to the governor. Nothing happened to these high school-educated idiots. I was fuming for months, and finally understood why people start shooting at cops. Ninety-nine percent of police are good people doing a hard job, but the one percent that abuse power are the reason for the saying: "Bad cops get good cops killed".

The only thing I could think of is that I look like a drug trafficker. I only drive loaded American trucks and am usually suited up or dressed well. I was wearing a leather jacket and a cowboy hat on that particular day. I learned a week before, on that same interstate, a drug interdiction unit caught a pick-up truck loaded with 500 pounds of marijuana bricks hidden under a false bed.

Flagooner, he can't testify to something when he doesn't even know who it was.

Generally this would be public record, but without knowing the guy's name it will be difficult.

And cops have had a trend of wanting to pull over young people and get them in trouble because they see them as easy targets who have little experience with traffic stops and don't know their rights.

I remember my dad, who's 63 and grew up on a farm, telling me about back in his days of being young and drinking, cops would just pour out your alcohol (or take it) and tell you to go home.

Now, there are very strict DUI laws and rarely do judges give pleas as so many states have adopted "zero tolerance" laws due to thinks like MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) who were very active in getting legislation to buckle down against drunk driving. If you take a plea, it's probably just for your sentence (if it's your first time), the charge will stick unless you have proof the cops broke laws in the stop or of course if the person was not intoxicated and/or over the limit.

Not enough information. You don't know why he was stopped or what a check of his license revealed. He may have had a warrant out for his arrest.

As far as doing the right thing, it doesn’t hurt to stop and question how much “scrutiny” you can tolerate in your life before trying to do the right thing. On the other hand, at least it’s a state trooper and not a DA. So I’m guessing the risk for retaliation is low.

In my area, state troopers are a chill group of people. I’ve accidentally passed by a few going a good 15-20 mph over the limit before on several occasions. But I slow down and they won’t pull me over, thank goodness.

But local police, especially Bexar county, I don’t trust at all. At the end of every work shift, I take my makeup off before I leave the club, and I’ll wear civilian clothes that are unsexy. I try to avoid giving them a reason to mess with me.

AS a L.E.O. I will say this no one is happy to see a cop unless you are a victim or about to be a victim.

You could be right Shadow but my perception was if there was a warrant the trooper would know early in the process and wouldn't have gone to the what looked like to me the extreme dragged out process of trying to get the guy to fuck up the tests and would have cuffed him quickly. But yes I do not have all of the info.

"I'm sure everything was on tape. Nothing wrong with offering to testify to what you witnessed. A deposition might help in a plea."

No, flagooner.

If the guy blew at or over the legal limit, he is going to most likely, for sure, get a DUI conviction, even if he takes a plea. He can get out of the DUI if his BAC was under the legal limit (where they probably would've let him go anyway), or if the evidence can be supressed because the cops had no reason to stop him in the first place.

If he blew at or over the legal limit, and takes a plea to, say, a shorter probation sentence and no jail time, he would still be pleading guilty so TheeOSU wouldn't even be able to testify. And if he tried to make a statement, it would be disregarded by the court because the statement would imply that the driver was not intoxicated when he would be pleading guilty to that very thing.

Good point shadow. Not enough info to make any valid comments. But that has never stopped me before.

"AS a L.E.O. I will say this no one is happy to see a cop unless you are a victim or about to be a victim."

You're making a stereotypical comment while stereotyping others. It's not true in my case as mentioned in the preamble. I have also partied with cops/state troopers, I've been to the houses of some and some to my house including police chiefs. I don't hate all cops but there have been some that i do hate but for specific reasons, not just because they're a cop.

"AS a L.E.O. I will say this no one is happy to see a cop unless you are a victim or about to be a victim."

Or they could be unhappy to see a cop because they fear they will become a victim of police abusing their power, like the kid in this story may have been.

There are also people who rely on the cops for nothing. When I lived in Detroit years ago and my home on burglarized and around $2,250 was stolen from me, I didn't even bother calling the cops. I knew I'd be up all night waiting for them to arrive, and that nothing would be done anyway.

In fact, back when I was a kid and lived in Detroit, my parents called the cops a total of four times: twice, they showed up within an hour. Once, they showed up the next morning. Once, they simply never showed up.

Isn't the next step a blood test? If so then pretty stupid of the cop to give the guy an extra 20 minutes to sober up.

I think there's probably more to it than what you saw.

You said he looked early 20's, perhaps he was a little younger than you thought, underage.

When seconds count, cops are minutes away. Get your concealed carry and USE IT.

Jester, technically the police are supposed to wait 15 to observe you before giving an official breathalyzer.

15mins*

And the 15 mins applies here in Michigan, other states might have different time periods in which they much observe you before doing a breathalyzer. But police often don't follow protocol when making arrests.

(LMAO I posted this in a different thread. Oops).

I said blood test, not breathalyzer.

Either way, he'd already observed him for some amount of time and he's still got to drive him wherever he's taking him. My point being seems the cop gave him extra time in a situation where that time could make a big difference. Doesn't make much sense if he's actually trying to get the guy for DUI, or whatever they call it in Ohio. As a lawyer buddy once told me, if you think you're borderline, stall.

"I said blood test, not breathalyzer"

A breathalyzer is a "blood test" in the sense that it it measures a person's blood-alcohol content (BAC).

A blood test as in actually drawing blood is not a normal part of a DUI/OWI procedure and generally is only used if the officer gets a warrant for it, or if it is the only option in testing for intoxication (like if the person is suspected to be on other drugs but not alcohol, which doesn't appear to be the case here).

The reason they have to observe a suspect for 15 minutes is to make sure they do not eat, puke, smoke, (etc) that could lead to a false BAC level.

Kind of a side note because I only know about Minnesota, but cops carry a portable breath test device that is not considered reliable to even be admitted into evidence at trial. It is used as one indicator along with the other field sobriety tests TheeOSU saw administered. The driver could have been given the PBT earlier or not at all and it’s really here nor there to establish probable cause to arrest.

The official breath test is done on a machine called an intoxilizer and it’s back at the station. It’s a breath test that is considered reliable and is admitted into evidence. As some on here have said, it’s a crime unto itself to refuse the intoxilizer or, in the alternative, a blood or urine test. But that’s not part of the field sobriety tests.

Nobody calls a breathalyzer a blood test.

Blood tests are more accurate than a breathalyzer and in some states, don't know about Ohio, you have the option of declining a breathalyzer in favor of a blood test. They can get a warrant or they can get your verbal consent, just like a breathalyzer refusing means you lose your license.

I agree DC9428. Most people in Detroit are packing (either legally or illegally).

I am thankful to live in a safe suburb now, but I still am very serious about my right to own firearms, both a pistol shotgun (for home) and a pistol (for carry). And of course when I visit my mom and other family or friends in Detroit, I have some sort of weapon - I at the very least carry pepper spray. I used to also always carry a stun gun, but my sister "borrowed" it from me which means I'll never see it again and need to get a new one.

In times when I was younger and sometimes had to walk home in the dark in Detroit, or wait for a bus in a sketchy area, I would make anything out of a weapon and walk with it grasped in my hand with my sleeve pulled over it so no one can see me, so if someone tried to grab me, I could stab them and get away. I would use a pen if that was all I could find. I still will do that if I'm not actually carrying a standard weapon.

I'm not a crazy gun toter, but I appreciate a beautiful firearm and enjoy skeet-shooting.

"Blood tests are more accurate than a breathalyzer and in some states, don't know about Ohio, you have the option of declining a breathalyzer in favor of a blood test. They can get a warrant or they can get your verbal consent, just like a breathalyzer refusing means you lose your license."

They will get a warrant for a blood test IF the person is refusing a breathalyzer. Again, as I said, most DUIs that occur do not involve blood tests. As far as consent goes, who is going to be stupid enough to volunteer their blood to the police (especially if they've done other drugs) instead of doing a breathalyzer? A small percentage of people might try it, to buy time, but most people would rather blow into a machine than get blood drawn. Lol. That is why they are not a part of a standard DUI/OWI charge.

Oh and the only other time they tend to get an actual blood sample besides the two I mentioned (warrant, because they refused the breathalyzer, or if they are suspected to be intoxicated but not from alcohol) is if the intoxication resulted in a car accident (etc) and the person ended up in the hospital. There, can't even do a blood sample without the person's consent; if the person is not conscious, no blood test. The best they could do is try to supbeona a blood sample from the doctor/nurse who took it for treatment purposes.

And all three reasons I mentioned still make the percent of blood samples involved in DUIs generally low and uncommon.

Ive been told if you’re close to being over the limit as a driver, as only you really know how many drinks you’ve actually had, you tell the officer you haven’t had any drinks. If he is suspicious because of smelling alcohol in your breath, you’re next step should be to deny the breathalyzer and request only a blood test.

My guess is This driver may have been going through what he deems necessary if he had 3-4 drinks, and does not want to have a breathalyzer used as testimony, even though a blood test is automatically administered on anyone who fails a breathalyzer. He could have just told the officer no breathalyzer please.

"even though a blood test is automatically administered on anyone who fails a breathalyzer." ^^^You are saying a person whose breathalyzer reads over the legal limit automatically gets a blood test (via blood sample)? That is absolutely false.

If he refuses the breathalyzer is when a cop can get a warrant to do a blood sample... they don't automatically give people blood tests once they "fail" which I assume in this context means blow over the legal limit on a breathalyzer.

Like I said, blood tests are not the common route for DUIs. It is a breathalyzer that typically digs people their graves for DUIs. That's why I mentioned the 15 minute observatory period, to make sure the person doesn't do anything to skew the breathalyzer results.

With LE,

1. never answer questions,
2. never do the eye or toe walk test or leg in the air test,
3. never do the hand held breath test

In most states, you may have your license taken if you refuse the breathalyzer down at the station so think carefully.

Smoke cigars in the vehicle. Officers cannot smell alcoholic beverages over cigar smoke period.

Or the preferred solution.

DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE

^ That would never work

Unless you're a full-blown alcoholic, a DUI is one of the easier things in life to avoid. (So is running out of gas).

I think a LOT of people would be very surprised if they found out how many times they have actually driven while they were over the legal limit but felt fine and didn't get pulled over.

For that reason, and others, I think if people are going to drink at all and drive, they should go buy a breathalyzer. I saw a shelf of them at Best Buy and bought a little inexpensive one that you can put on a key chain. It only measures to the hundredth, but it if it's anywhere near a .08, I don't drive. I will call an Uber, Lyft, a friend or, often, my mom.

I was a public defender for several years and the comment about 1% of cops being bad is way off it's more like 50%. Plus more like 99% are assholes

There you go being insufferable again, Nina. WTF would you say someone who blows over the legal limit wouldn’t get blood drawn later on at the station, that’s why officers are also phlebotomists.

But of course you have to go off trying to prober your knowledge on a topic you know very little about. A person can be booked on breathalyzer alone, but it’s easier to beat than the blood test, which is why almost every major Police Department draws blood after a driver fails breathalyze as part of a field sobriety test.

Why the hell would anyone refute that, unless you’re a wanna be know it all stupid fuck?

This is clearly a topic on which we are all experts. I had a close friend who was a one man criminal defense attorney and he got to be pretty good at contesting breathalyzer results. Sometimes on the officer’s training, sometimes on the machine’s calibration; sometimes on the validity and reliability of the results. His fee for a DUI including arraignment and trial ran from $7500 on up with most exceeding $10,000. Justice for all, but especially those with deep pockets.

@gawker. "This is clearly a topic on which we are all experts. "

C'mon now. You can't be so naive. Nina is the only expert on anything, and she is the expert on everything.

"There you go being insufferable again, Nina. WTF would you say someone who blows over the legal limit wouldn’t get blood drawn later on at the station, that’s why officers are also phlebotomists.

But of course you have to go off trying to prober your knowledge on a topic you know very little about. A person can be booked on breathalyzer alone, but it’s easier to beat than the blood test, which is why almost every major Police Department draws blood after a driver fails breathalyze as part of a field sobriety test."

I actually know exactly what I'm talking about, you are the one who is wrong. I have helped represent people who've been in those situations and I know people personally in those situations.

Cops do NOT administer blood samples just because someone's breathalyzer results were over the legal limit. If a cop administers a breathalyzer and the person's BAC is over the limit, they have all the evidence they need to charge that person with a DUI/OWI. Why on Earth would they request another test that could potentially warp or destroy their evidence? They don't.

^^^ “Why on earth would they request another test that could potentially warp Or destroy their evidence? They don’t.”

Here’s all the proof I need of your conceited ass being as wrong as a 50 year old grandmother stripping. Especially after Gawker’s post validated why police always get blood tests, because breathalyzers aren’t as accurate. Of course in a cash strapped poor area such as the Detroit Metro area that you’re in, municipalities could try to save money and push through cases without blood tests, yet since they’re easier to get out of dui if you fight. Personally, you don’t help represent shit, other than push papers onto lawyers so quit pretending you know what your talking about Erin Brockovich wanna be. You’re a paralegal/stripper, and since I know approximately over a thousand police officers in my area, many of those officers are trained to draw blood. I even went on a ride along where the officer did the sobriety test, breathalyzer, and then had to haul the driver into the station for the blood test. Maybe Nina your thinking about your DUI conviction since you have one on your record. You were probably so drunk that they had all the evidence needed to find you guilty from the field test.

"Maybe Nina your thinking about your DUI conviction since you have one on your record."

I've never been convicted of a DUI, have zero points on my license, and don't even have a traffic ticket on my driving record. My driving record is cleaner than yours. Get over the fact that you were wrong.

"Especially after Gawker’s post validated why police always get blood tests, because breathalyzers aren’t as accurate."

Police rarely get blood tests, and only for the reasons I have already explained. If they get a person to blow over the legal limit on a breathalyzer, they're not going to risk getting contradictory evidence since they already have evidence via the breathalyzer, they're not going to risk a sample that could destroy their evidence. And as Hunstman pointed out: "The official breath test is done on a machine called an intoxilizer and it’s back at the station. It’s a breath test that is considered reliable and is admitted into evidence."

If police "always do blood tests" as you say, why did the Supreme court rule that the police need a search warrant to do one? google.com

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

DUI is a violation of state law only, not federal law, unless it occurs on federal property, which is not the case here. Criminal procedure and rules of evidence vary state to state, but typically a breathalyzer is all that is needed to prove a DUI. A blood draw usually done only when a breathalyzer is refused because there is no practical way to force a person to take a breathalyzer, which requires cooperation. And as NIna has pointed out, a blood test now requires a warrant in most cases. I don’t know anything about Michigan law, but is sure sounds to me that Nina knows what she is talking about. Paralegals don’t just push papers to attorneys. That’s what legal secretaries do. A paralegal is required to have some knowledge of the law and rules of procedure.

^Thank you. Unfortunately DoctorEvil, I'm just a dumb stripper. ;)

I'm willing to speculate that young driver may have had outstanding warrant or parole violation, and that cop was seeing if he could pile on a DUI conviction on top of that. Or maybe dude was driving the Mustang like he stole it, because he did actually steal it.

Fortunately, I've mostly had "good" encounters with leo's, having been let off with a warning in several cases. There was 1 case that I mentioned in my "Police Stop Stories" blog on SW (late 2009) whereby the bordering states finest were VERY determined to nail me with a double speeding ticket. Basically, they timed/tracked/monitored/followed me for over 30 miles from where they pulled me over, to the state line. I set cruise control 1 mph under speed limit, so I avoided the double jeopardy ticket.

some were/are total dickwads

You had me at total dickwads. Don't knock it until you've tried several. The first few might have been having off days.

^Thank you. Unfortunately DoctorEvil, I'm just a dumb stripper. ;)

With ears like that, you don't have to be smart, baby. You just have to be here.

I just wonder if Meat72 has anything else to say since I, once again, proved him wrong.

I just wonder if Meat72 has anything else to say since I, once again, proved him wrong.

I just wonder if NinaBambina is going to post another photo of that sweet sweet face with or without the ears or if we need to goad her on some more.

Tag, you're in, bother Meat!

Some police are good cops, some aren't and are dickwads sounds like a good description. Having once lived in a small town and having the police actually call your house just to attempt to harass a relative saying they are going to nail him one of these days, just confirms they like like to harass people. It was probably due to a neighbor harassing the police just because she didn't like my brother revving his engine as he drove past the bitches house. She was a bitch and complained about everything. I heard she complained about me too after my brother left town. At that point, I believe the police must have finally realized she was a bitter bitch ready to complain about everything. Many neighborhoods have a neighborhood bitch.

One of the funniest comments I heard was from a nearby neighborhood where the bitch complained to the guy extending my fence and my neighbors fence to within a few feet of our backyard borders, one comment was, well how are the fire trucks supposed to be able to drive behind our properties? So stupid. My otherwise very nice fence guy and neighbor said she was a bitch. I heard a few complaints, definitely. The police in several small towns probably get calls from bitches all the time while almost no one else calls unless they need help.