Off Topic: Law enforcement
TheeOSU
FUCK IT!
In this case, state highway patrol AKA state troopers.
Preamble: I've known many police and state troopers over the years, some were/are good guys that I considered friends and some were/are total dickwads. I've had good and bad experiences interacting with the law so I'm not heavily opinionated in regards to them one way or the other but I just watched an incident that leans towards the dickwad designation.
I just came home from being out for awhile and a state trooper was conducting a traffic stop right in front of my house. It was a rusty old Mustang and I didn't pay any attention as I pulled into my driveway. A few minutes after being home I glanced out the window to check on the traffic stop and the trooper had the Mustang driver, a younger early 20s guy out standing in front of the cruiser so I decided to watch what was going on.
He was just starting a DUI test where they move a pen in front of your eyes to watch if your eyes jerk. The trooper was going to extremes holding the pen at various angles of the driver's peripheral vision and holding it there for what I think were extremely long periods of time. I went through that once and I kept my mouth shut but i recall thinking that the trooper was pushing the limits trying to make me nervous or make me fuck up but he ended up letting me go. Back to the incident in front of my house, being around 80 feet away and the driver's back to me I can't give an opinion on how he did in that test.
Next up was the walk heel to toe walk test. I watched as the driver did the 10 or so paces, pivoted and did 10 paces back and he didn't waver or miss a beat. I'm thinking he passed that test. Then the stand on one foot with your hands at your side and count to 30 test. The driver had his foot up about 8-10 inches and was doing fine and the trooper motions with his own foot for the driver to lift his leg higher which he does and once again he doesn't quiver or loose his balance. I was thinking that he did better than I would have and I haven't had a drink in days.
Then the trooper has the driver tilt his head back, put his arms out and touch his nose one hand at a time. The driver was steady and appeared to be doing fine.
Next thing I see the trooper turns the driver around, handcuffs him and throws him in the back of the cruiser and I'm thinking WTF? the driver did not look impaired at all from what I had just watched. I thought about going outside and saying something but my better judgement told me to stay out of it.
Right about then a metroparks ranger SUV with 2 rangers pulls up behind the trooper's cruiser and a minute later 2 more trooper cars pull up and everybody gets out and they're standing on the side of the road talking and yucking it up. This goes on for a good 15-20 minutes while the driver is sitting in the back of the first trooper's car and I'm thinking "there's my tax dollars at work" as all of these LEA people are having a roadside convention while real criminals and drunks are in another part of the city with no cops around.
Then the rangers eventually get in their SUV and drive off, a little while later one of the other troopers drives off and a bit later the other trooper drives off making a u-turn in front of an upcoming car that had to slam on its brakes to keep from hitting him. The final act was the original trooper driving off with public enemy #1, the mustang driver.
Sorry for the long winded post. I'll end up telling various friends what I watched when I see them but until then I had to get this out now so you dear TUSCL is who I've chosen to vent to.
Any thoughts?
Preamble: I've known many police and state troopers over the years, some were/are good guys that I considered friends and some were/are total dickwads. I've had good and bad experiences interacting with the law so I'm not heavily opinionated in regards to them one way or the other but I just watched an incident that leans towards the dickwad designation.
I just came home from being out for awhile and a state trooper was conducting a traffic stop right in front of my house. It was a rusty old Mustang and I didn't pay any attention as I pulled into my driveway. A few minutes after being home I glanced out the window to check on the traffic stop and the trooper had the Mustang driver, a younger early 20s guy out standing in front of the cruiser so I decided to watch what was going on.
He was just starting a DUI test where they move a pen in front of your eyes to watch if your eyes jerk. The trooper was going to extremes holding the pen at various angles of the driver's peripheral vision and holding it there for what I think were extremely long periods of time. I went through that once and I kept my mouth shut but i recall thinking that the trooper was pushing the limits trying to make me nervous or make me fuck up but he ended up letting me go. Back to the incident in front of my house, being around 80 feet away and the driver's back to me I can't give an opinion on how he did in that test.
Next up was the walk heel to toe walk test. I watched as the driver did the 10 or so paces, pivoted and did 10 paces back and he didn't waver or miss a beat. I'm thinking he passed that test. Then the stand on one foot with your hands at your side and count to 30 test. The driver had his foot up about 8-10 inches and was doing fine and the trooper motions with his own foot for the driver to lift his leg higher which he does and once again he doesn't quiver or loose his balance. I was thinking that he did better than I would have and I haven't had a drink in days.
Then the trooper has the driver tilt his head back, put his arms out and touch his nose one hand at a time. The driver was steady and appeared to be doing fine.
Next thing I see the trooper turns the driver around, handcuffs him and throws him in the back of the cruiser and I'm thinking WTF? the driver did not look impaired at all from what I had just watched. I thought about going outside and saying something but my better judgement told me to stay out of it.
Right about then a metroparks ranger SUV with 2 rangers pulls up behind the trooper's cruiser and a minute later 2 more trooper cars pull up and everybody gets out and they're standing on the side of the road talking and yucking it up. This goes on for a good 15-20 minutes while the driver is sitting in the back of the first trooper's car and I'm thinking "there's my tax dollars at work" as all of these LEA people are having a roadside convention while real criminals and drunks are in another part of the city with no cops around.
Then the rangers eventually get in their SUV and drive off, a little while later one of the other troopers drives off and a bit later the other trooper drives off making a u-turn in front of an upcoming car that had to slam on its brakes to keep from hitting him. The final act was the original trooper driving off with public enemy #1, the mustang driver.
Sorry for the long winded post. I'll end up telling various friends what I watched when I see them but until then I had to get this out now so you dear TUSCL is who I've chosen to vent to.
Any thoughts?
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56 comments
So you didn't see a breathalyzer administered?
Also, what is important is what the driver was stopped for. If there is dashcam footage (which the police SHOULD have and would be obligated to give the tape to a defense attorney if requested by that attorney), the footage will show if the man should've been pulled over in the first place; if the answer is no, it could be dismissed via surpression of evidence.
We don't know what his BAC was, or why he was stopped. We just know that you saw an arrest-happy cop administer a field sobriety test that, to you, it looked like he passed.
And for the record, cops will often still administer a breathalyzer even if the person passes their field sobriety test. It depends on the cop, his mood, and the looks and attitude of the person who is pulled over.
The only thing I could think of is that I look like a drug trafficker. I only drive loaded American trucks and am usually suited up or dressed well. I was wearing a leather jacket and a cowboy hat on that particular day. I learned a week before, on that same interstate, a drug interdiction unit caught a pick-up truck loaded with 500 pounds of marijuana bricks hidden under a false bed.
Generally this would be public record, but without knowing the guy's name it will be difficult.
And cops have had a trend of wanting to pull over young people and get them in trouble because they see them as easy targets who have little experience with traffic stops and don't know their rights.
I remember my dad, who's 63 and grew up on a farm, telling me about back in his days of being young and drinking, cops would just pour out your alcohol (or take it) and tell you to go home.
Now, there are very strict DUI laws and rarely do judges give pleas as so many states have adopted "zero tolerance" laws due to thinks like MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) who were very active in getting legislation to buckle down against drunk driving. If you take a plea, it's probably just for your sentence (if it's your first time), the charge will stick unless you have proof the cops broke laws in the stop or of course if the person was not intoxicated and/or over the limit.
In my area, state troopers are a chill group of people. I’ve accidentally passed by a few going a good 15-20 mph over the limit before on several occasions. But I slow down and they won’t pull me over, thank goodness.
But local police, especially Bexar county, I don’t trust at all. At the end of every work shift, I take my makeup off before I leave the club, and I’ll wear civilian clothes that are unsexy. I try to avoid giving them a reason to mess with me.
But yes I do not have all of the info.
No, flagooner.
If the guy blew at or over the legal limit, he is going to most likely, for sure, get a DUI conviction, even if he takes a plea. He can get out of the DUI if his BAC was under the legal limit (where they probably would've let him go anyway), or if the evidence can be supressed because the cops had no reason to stop him in the first place.
If he blew at or over the legal limit, and takes a plea to, say, a shorter probation sentence and no jail time, he would still be pleading guilty so TheeOSU wouldn't even be able to testify. And if he tried to make a statement, it would be disregarded by the court because the statement would imply that the driver was not intoxicated when he would be pleading guilty to that very thing.
You're making a stereotypical comment while stereotyping others. It's not true in my case as mentioned in the preamble. I have also partied with cops/state troopers, I've been to the houses of some and some to my house including police chiefs. I don't hate all cops but there have been some that i do hate but for specific reasons, not just because they're a cop.
Or they could be unhappy to see a cop because they fear they will become a victim of police abusing their power, like the kid in this story *may* have been.
There are also people who rely on the cops for nothing. When I lived in Detroit years ago and my home on burglarized and around $2,250 was stolen from me, I didn't even bother calling the cops. I knew I'd be up all night waiting for them to arrive, and that nothing would be done anyway.
In fact, back when I was a kid and lived in Detroit, my parents called the cops a total of four times: twice, they showed up within an hour. Once, they showed up the next morning. Once, they simply never showed up.
I think there's probably more to it than what you saw.
(LMAO I posted this in a different thread. Oops).
Either way, he'd already observed him for some amount of time and he's still got to drive him wherever he's taking him. My point being seems the cop gave him extra time in a situation where that time could make a big difference. Doesn't make much sense if he's actually trying to get the guy for DUI, or whatever they call it in Ohio. As a lawyer buddy once told me, if you think you're borderline, stall.
A breathalyzer is a "blood test" in the sense that it it measures a person's blood-alcohol content (BAC).
A blood test as in actually drawing blood is not a normal part of a DUI/OWI procedure and generally is only used if the officer gets a warrant for it, or if it is the only option in testing for intoxication (like if the person is suspected to be on other drugs but not alcohol, which doesn't appear to be the case here).
The reason they have to observe a suspect for 15 minutes is to make sure they do not eat, puke, smoke, (etc) that could lead to a false BAC level.
The official breath test is done on a machine called an intoxilizer and it’s back at the station. It’s a breath test that is considered reliable and is admitted into evidence. As some on here have said, it’s a crime unto itself to refuse the intoxilizer or, in the alternative, a blood or urine test. But that’s not part of the field sobriety tests.
Blood tests are more accurate than a breathalyzer and in some states, don't know about Ohio, you have the option of declining a breathalyzer in favor of a blood test. They can get a warrant or they can get your verbal consent, just like a breathalyzer refusing means you lose your license.
I am thankful to live in a safe suburb now, but I still am very serious about my right to own firearms, both a pistol shotgun (for home) and a pistol (for carry). And of course when I visit my mom and other family or friends in Detroit, I have some sort of weapon - I at the very least carry pepper spray. I used to also always carry a stun gun, but my sister "borrowed" it from me which means I'll never see it again and need to get a new one.
In times when I was younger and sometimes had to walk home in the dark in Detroit, or wait for a bus in a sketchy area, I would make anything out of a weapon and walk with it grasped in my hand with my sleeve pulled over it so no one can see me, so if someone tried to grab me, I could stab them and get away. I would use a pen if that was all I could find. I still will do that if I'm not actually carrying a standard weapon.
I'm not a crazy gun toter, but I appreciate a beautiful firearm and enjoy skeet-shooting.
They will get a warrant for a blood test IF the person is refusing a breathalyzer. Again, as I said, most DUIs that occur do not involve blood tests. As far as consent goes, who is going to be stupid enough to volunteer their blood to the police (especially if they've done other drugs) instead of doing a breathalyzer? A small percentage of people might try it, to buy time, but most people would rather blow into a machine than get blood drawn. Lol. That is why they are not a part of a standard DUI/OWI charge.
And all three reasons I mentioned still make the percent of blood samples involved in DUIs generally low and uncommon.
My guess is This driver may have been going through what he deems necessary if he had 3-4 drinks, and does not want to have a breathalyzer used as testimony, even though a blood test is automatically administered on anyone who fails a breathalyzer. He could have just told the officer no breathalyzer please.
^^^You are saying a person whose breathalyzer reads over the legal limit automatically gets a blood test (via blood sample)? That is absolutely false.
If he refuses the breathalyzer is when a cop can get a warrant to do a blood sample... they don't automatically give people blood tests once they "fail" which I assume in this context means blow over the legal limit on a breathalyzer.
Like I said, blood tests are not the common route for DUIs. It is a breathalyzer that typically digs people their graves for DUIs. That's why I mentioned the 15 minute observatory period, to make sure the person doesn't do anything to skew the breathalyzer results.
1) never answer questions,
2) never do the eye or toe walk test or leg in the air test,
3) never do the hand held breath test
In most states, you may have your license taken if you refuse the breathalyzer down at the station so think carefully.
Smoke cigars in the vehicle. Officers cannot smell alcoholic beverages over cigar smoke period.
DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE
I think a LOT of people would be very surprised if they found out how many times they have actually driven while they were over the legal limit but felt fine and didn't get pulled over.
For that reason, and others, I think if people are going to drink at all and drive, they should go buy a breathalyzer. I saw a shelf of them at Best Buy and bought a little inexpensive one that you can put on a key chain. It only measures to the hundredth, but it if it's anywhere near a .08, I don't drive. I will call an Uber, Lyft, a friend or, often, my mom.
But of course you have to go off trying to prober your knowledge on a topic you know very little about. A person can be booked on breathalyzer alone, but it’s easier to beat than the blood test, which is why almost every major Police Department draws blood after a driver fails breathalyze as part of a field sobriety test.
Why the hell would anyone refute that, unless you’re a wanna be know it all stupid fuck?
"This is clearly a topic on which we are all experts. "
C'mon now. You can't be so naive.
Nina is the only expert on anything, and she is the expert on everything.
But of course you have to go off trying to prober your knowledge on a topic you know very little about. A person can be booked on breathalyzer alone, but it’s easier to beat than the blood test, which is why almost every major Police Department draws blood after a driver fails breathalyze as part of a field sobriety test."
I actually know exactly what I'm talking about, you are the one who is wrong. I have helped represent people who've been in those situations and I know people personally in those situations.
Cops do NOT administer blood samples just because someone's breathalyzer results were over the legal limit. If a cop administers a breathalyzer and the person's BAC is over the limit, they have all the evidence they need to charge that person with a DUI/OWI. Why on Earth would they request another test that could potentially warp or destroy their evidence? They don't.
Or destroy their evidence? They don’t.”
Here’s all the proof I need of your conceited ass being as wrong as a 50 year old grandmother stripping. Especially after Gawker’s post validated why police always get blood tests, because breathalyzers aren’t as accurate. Of course in a cash strapped poor area such as the Detroit Metro area that you’re in, municipalities could try to save money and push through cases without blood tests, yet since they’re easier to get out of dui if you fight. Personally, you don’t help represent shit, other than push papers onto lawyers so quit pretending you know what your talking about Erin Brockovich wanna be. You’re a paralegal/stripper, and since I know approximately over a thousand police officers in my area, many of those officers are trained to draw blood. I even went on a ride along where the officer did the sobriety test, breathalyzer, and then had to haul the driver into the station for the blood test. Maybe Nina your thinking about your DUI conviction since you have one on your record. You were probably so drunk that they had all the evidence needed to find you guilty from the field test.
I've never been convicted of a DUI, have zero points on my license, and don't even have a traffic ticket on my driving record. My driving record is cleaner than yours. Get over the fact that you were wrong.
"Especially after Gawker’s post validated why police always get blood tests, because breathalyzers aren’t as accurate."
Police rarely get blood tests, and only for the reasons I have already explained. If they get a person to blow over the legal limit on a breathalyzer, they're not going to risk getting contradictory evidence since they already have evidence via the breathalyzer, they're not going to risk a sample that could destroy their evidence. And as Hunstman pointed out: "The official breath test is done on a machine called an intoxilizer and it’s back at the station. It’s a breath test that is considered reliable and is admitted into evidence."
If police "always do blood tests" as you say, why did the Supreme court rule that the police need a search warrant to do one?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/verdict.jus…
YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
Fortunately, I've mostly had "good" encounters with leo's, having been let off with a warning in several cases. There was 1 case that I mentioned in my "Police Stop Stories" blog on SW (late 2009) whereby the bordering states finest were VERY determined to nail me with a double speeding ticket. Basically, they timed/tracked/monitored/followed me for over 30 miles from where they pulled me over, to the state line. I set cruise control 1 mph under speed limit, so I avoided the double jeopardy ticket.
You had me at total dickwads. Don't knock it until you've tried several. The first few might have been having off days.
With ears like that, you don't have to be smart, baby. You just have to be here.
I just wonder if NinaBambina is going to post another photo of that sweet sweet face with or without the ears or if we need to goad her on some more.
Tag, you're in, bother Meat!
One of the funniest comments I heard was from a nearby neighborhood where the bitch complained to the guy extending my fence and my neighbors fence to within a few feet of our backyard borders, one comment was, well how are the fire trucks supposed to be able to drive behind our properties?
So stupid. My otherwise very nice fence guy and neighbor said she was a bitch. I heard a few complaints, definitely. The police in several small towns probably get calls from bitches all the time while almost no one else calls unless they need help.