Is it okay to break the golden rule if you have a strong head on your shoulders?
I'm in love with the girl. I don't completely support her (financially) but I can tell that her situation would be very different if it wasn't for me. I'm also in touch with reality. I accept it for what it is. We're just having fun. And when we're together she seriously comes across like she's having fun, for real. And I don't expect her to feel anything more than that. Ideally, I'd like it to end by her eventually saying we can't get together again because she's found someone closer to her age who she can go on and build a life with (and I've shared this with her). I care about the girl and I want good things for her. But I hope it's a really long fucking time until that happens. And in the back of my mind I wonder if she'll still be clinging onto me until she's well past her prime. In all honesty, I'll be happy if she is. The girl is pretty fucking cool.
Anyone else ever been in that situation? How did it end?
Anyone else ever been in that situation? How did it end?
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63 comments
But she has given me plenty of golden showers.
But don’t worry question anon. Love is scary but if you got good head game like you said then no girl will be able to stay away
Or... you're the latest in a long series of trolls looking spin everyone up on yet another "I'm in love with a stripper" topic. This is good for a solid 15 to 25 replies that read exactly like all the other threads on this subject.
What upsets me the most is that I've been reading TUSCL for a long time and I generally respect what you have to say.
This is not a troll post.
Trish_Club_Lust - definite troll account
The number of guys here who have dated (errr... "dated") strippers and came back to say that it ended with "happily ever after" is low to non existent. Whereas the number of guys who ultimately experience some form of a high-drama, high-regret mushroom cloud is high. A lot of people here take an odd glee in those unfortunate stories. I don't.
So, the odds are against you. As long as you know that, and you're prepared to be disappointed, then do what feels right. I hope you have fun and it ends gracefully.
The third I warned against, but for a short while thought "hey, you know she just might be the real thing." That lasted long enough for her to to really destroy my buddy financially and emotionally. Because she wasn't the stereotypical "crazy stripper". She was as ruthless and inhuman as she was smart and convincing.
I hope that perspective helps.
And to be honest, I've been with the high drama girl and know exactly how it ends. This girls is different. She's a complete sweetheart. If I was younger (and single) I'd make a serious play for her. She's marriage material. But I can tell at this stage in her life she's not interested in that (even from a guy her own age), so I take what I can get (and I'm under the impression that it's more than any other dude gets out of her, but for money, which is cool), and I feel privileged to be able to experience what I get out of her. It feels very different than any other girls I've seen OTC.
Keep having fun. I hope it works out for you. That said, my perspective has not changed. I still believe that the odds are not in your favor. Good luck, though.
My advice would be to build some "cred" by posting reviews (real ones), commenting on reviews and participating in discussions for a period of time before you can expect to be believed and taken seriously.
Incidentally, the only time I got a stripper's phone number was some 30 years ago at a dive bar. She was average looking but I was turned on by her floppy, tanned tits. I called her a couple times, seeking a legitimate "date." She wanted some outrageous sum of money to see me (can't recall how much), which I wasn't interested in paying (AMPs and street walkers were much cheaper than what she was asking).
Have never done OTC (or ITC for that matter), but it's not something I would rule out for the future. I'd like to think I wouldn't break "the golden rule," but who the fuck knows? The heart is far more unpredictable than the cock (damn, I feel like a poet, or a philosopher).
This is just a remake of the same movie we’ve all seen enough to know, the damsel in not really the one in distress, she’s actually in charge of you and unbeknownst to you you’re headed for the proverbial cliff.
You’ve already gone too far, as you’ve developed feelings for the stripper. Now your perception is clouded. Feelings change your view - as things appear brighter in good times - and darker in bad times.
This girl isn’t marriage material - she’s a stripper. Hopefully you wouldn’t marry a whore - and this girl is a whore with rhythm. You might become angry reading this - and that proves your judgement is clouded.
When you pay a girl - to act interested - to suck your cock - to provide a GFE - it’s all an act. Don’t kid yourself - she’s enjoying it because you give her money. She’s happy to see your wallet - not you.
Remember a few things -
You aren’t special.
Her relationship is not with you - it’s with your money.
If she makes you feel special - she’s a better actor than other whores.
This is important - there is a huge difference between a probability and a possibility. There is a possibility she might like you - but the probability of her actually liking you is close to non existent.
I could have written your post 5 or 6 years ago. And did, in fact, do so; go read some of my articles.
Given that I’m very happily married to a wonderful woman, and have no desire to change that, it was never destined to be a “happily ever after” for the stripper and me, but it’s worked out about as well as could be expected.
She’s happily married now as well, to a good and decent man, but we still talk, a lot, and we still visit each other occasionally. Visits are generally characterized by as much fucking as we can get in.
That said, it wasn’t always an easy road. There were days..., well let’s just say they were hard, and that my wife is, in fact, a wonderful person, beyond, and beyond, what I sometimes feel I deserve.
I acknowledge that we probably aren’t very typical of customer/stripper relationships at all, and you should probably not use us as an example of how things are likely to turn out. You *might* get lucky, but then again, you might crash and burn in spectacular fashion.
If she does not return your feelings, or does, but not at the same level, you are, at some point going to be hurt, probably very badly.
Good luck.
If I thought that you had any real control over this, I would tell you that you're weak and selfish and need to cut the girl loose so that she can still build a real life while she is young enough to do so.
But since you're really not running the show in any way, instead I'll say that you are weak and self-deluded. I think that she is living a lot more than she tells you. Pretty young girls with codependency issues are almost never single and an old needy dude is no substitute for what she needs. But she'll happily help you believe whatever you need to in order to collect, at least until you are no longer worth the effort.
But hey, there is a silver lining. If you follow the Gawker System™ you might keep her on the hook for several years. All you need to do is clean out your life savings and remortgage your home, which will hopefully yield several hundred thousand dollars, over a handful of years to support her and her various boyfriends.
Anyway, thanks for sharing I suppose. ;)
We had a long talk about keeping her secrets. I told her how much I appreciated the memories she made for me and would honor my promises. I always had a lot of respect for her. I still think fondly of her and occasionally check her FB page (that she rarely posts to), just to see that she is doing well.
Had a few others since then. Most were too young to be serious and the relationships fizzled out with little drama. Guess I have just been lucky, because most of these girls are drama queens outside the club.
It sounds like you have a reasonable idea of what to expect out of this. You have romantic feelings for her but know that you will never actually get that in return. This is sort of like the mirror universe version of being friend zoned by a hot girl. You get to fuck her but not actually get a genuine connection. There are 2 red flags I can see in your post:
1. "We're just having fun. And when we're together she seriously comes across like she's having fun, for real."
If you aren't sure that she is having genuine fun that is a problem. You should see another girl occasionally just to keep some perspective.
2. "Ideally, I'd like it to end by her eventually saying we can't get together again because she's found someone closer to her age who she can go on and build a life with. I care about the girl and I want good things for her."
I can relate to the "caring about her in a genuine way" thing. I am the same type of person. It is important to remember that if you are feeling that way that you are extra vulnerable. She is not a little baby bird that needs your guidance in life even though you want to give that to her. You need to be extra on guard if she tries to ask you for extra money to help with things in her life.
Giving her extra money will not make her love you, like you, or give you genuine affirmation or acceptance.
Customer/PL - “I’m tapped out. I’ve run out of cash. When can we get together again?”
Whore - “No money? Really? Totally dry?”
Customer/PL - “Yes. I’m totally out of cash.”
Whore - “Lose my number. We are done.”
tahoecruz – thanks for sharing. What you describe is pretty much what I’m looking for, except there’s probably a bigger age difference. I hope it ends with her leaving the industry for something else, in time, and I anticipate that I will not be in the picture when that happens. I’m having fun and collecting good memories. And I think the memories will be better if it doesn’t end on a sour note.
PaulDrake – I won’t give too many details, but I’m not new to mongering. I have no desire for the girl to develop the same feelings, and zero anticipation that she will. Your advice in bullet 2 is helpful. She has asked for more, and she’s totally cool about it when I tell her not this time. But at the same time, she shows me a better time than the other girls have, and I appreciate it. There have been times when I’ve done extra for her without being asked. I don’t feel like a chump about it. She’s the one I want coming back. I get it for what it is. And I give her the incentive.
Rickyboy – Your responses always make me smile. And there’s always a good deal of truth behind it, even if your choice of words changes the context. Most likely, I’m giving her far less money than what you’re thinking. I already know my monthly limit for the hobby. She of course doesn’t. And be it her or any other girl, I’ll cut ties and move on without batting an eye if our “thing” continuing becomes contingent on my exceeding that limit. Of course, that would mean it ends on the sour note that I’d like to avoid, but hey, I can’t support myself and continue strip clubbing if all I have are good memories. I need my money for that.
Cashman1234 – Thanks! Our “thing” doesn’t feel quite as whorish as what you depict, but I get it for what it is. I’m not going to contact her when I don’t have money to spend. And if things continue the way they have, she’ll make herself available to me whenever I do feel like spending the money. That’s pretty much what I expect it to be.
I've been in a handful of relationships with sex workers -notice the broad based term-- and strippers in my experience are the most difficult to maintain any semblance of normal.
Cashman has the most on spot answer in my mind which is its really only dating/relationship if you aren't paying her to spend time with you.
You could look back at some of my past comments. In my case I dated a dancer off and on starting before she became a dancer and to me it is also the most telling because the changes in her in how she thinks about men, life in general, and money since she started dancing are immense. ( and in her case rather sad)
For the majority of guys I'd caution against it. I still talk to my ex although I didn't for over six months, but I'll never take her back again.
What intrigues me the most about your response is "I dated a dancer off and on starting before she became a dancer and to me it is also the most telling because the changes in her in how she thinks about men, life in general, and money since she started dancing are immense."
Can you elaborate on that? I haven't known this girl since the beginning, but I have given serious thought about calling it quits with her and changing my entire approach to clubbing to just generally be more casual about it and never really see the same girl twice. I understand that she's going to do whatever she wants regardless of my involvement with her, but I've noticed the "unhealthiness" of what I believe you're saying, and often ask myself if I want to be the one enabling her. Frankly, I think she's better off running around with me than other guys, but who doesn't think that about themselves? I really don't have concerns about being sucked in and taken advantage of myself. I have a budget and I'm not going to exceed it. If that causes a problem, then it was fun while it lasted.
Remember that us guys have an unfulfilled need to give women guidance and protection in life. We want to be rescuers. And strippers are good at helping fulfill or exploit that desire.
A golden rule to remember: Never give strippers life advice unless you think they actually want it.
I met her on line dating but we started to see each other any time I was in her area.
Without getting into details I broke it off with her basically for not being honest with me. About a month before we parted ways she had mentioned her friends were telling her she should be a dancer but it was a once and done conversation and I didn't give it any thought until she contacted me about five months later and wanted to get back together. At that point she was dancing. I tried twice and during the time I did whenever we would have a knock down dragout fight she'd go back to the pole. Each cycle she's basically fallen further and further into all the normal traps you see, hear, and read about strippers. Her life and pretty much all her dreams and ambitions in my mind are pretty much down the drain. Financially she is living hand to mouth. If I believe her she hates her life and she hates dancing but of course all her decisions are someone else's fault.
The guy she dated before me was a professional jock...( talk about pressure) but most of the guys that have come along since I left are pretty much deadbeats and wannabe's I hear about it third party all the time.
At the moment she is in Vegas working the graveyard shift at one of the clubs and living in an Air-BnB --one room, living a double life and trying to fake out the people she knows back in her hometown as if life is wonderful. Pretty sure the lie is wearing thin and people are a lot smarter than what she thinks.
I won't see her again, nor will I go out and spend time with her. I was in Vegas this year and I didn't know for certain but I had heard she was there. Instead of looking her up I spent my week with a girl from SA.
I did finally start talking to her about a month ago, mostly e-mails. I won't give her my cell. Changed the number. Mostly at this point I pity her.
I'd suggest you stick to your budget. As a rule money comes into play at some point in all relationships and the way to keep the craziness at an acceptable level is to stay within the lines you set.
That and it helps to cut the conversation short and get to selling dances. Hooray for the stupid party slut image! xD
"I'm in love with the girl."
"Ideally, I'd like it to end by her eventually saying we can't get together again because she's found someone closer to her age who she can go on and build a life with (and I've shared this with her)."
TO THIS...
"I’ll cut ties and move on without batting an eye if our “thing” continuing becomes contingent on my exceeding that limit"
I think I just got whiplash. ;)
Girls in my regular clubs who I interact with often tend to believe that I don't give a shit about anyone or anything (besides my family). This is not true at all, but rather a function of self-discipline. I'm mostly hardened to SS, but once every couple of years a girl will strike a chord in me, though she will likely never know as I don't show it. In those extremely rare instances in which I start to feel more than a tingle of caring about a girl's well being that goes beyond general human decency, I go into cold Asshole + mode and do something that pisses on it. My favorite option is to take another girl out from the same club and not bother to hide it, which is the kiss of death when the favorite in question is a low volume girl who took time to procure in the first place.
You might want to consider diversifying a bit more instead of waiting for her to move on, which, as you previously stated, you hope doesn't happen "for a really long fucking time." Maybe you could buy a dog, or do some civvie dating, or at the very least find another club to visit for a while. Getting emotional over a stripper inevitably ends badly - the only question is on whose terms and how much damage is done in the process.
Good luck.
Can I ask you to elaborate on what kind of damage you see (or have seen with others) happening? I'm not ever going to spend more than my budget, so it won't be financial damage. Basically, the money I spend on her would have been spent on others if not for her, so if it ends badly I may have missed out on some good (or better) times, but I won't be walking away in a different financial position because of her. Right now I'm sacrificing a bit of variety for her, but when it's over I'll be happy (or perhaps just content) to get that variety back.
Other than cash, what else should I be looking out for?
If you had actual experience in these matters, your posts wouldn't read like this. You'd understand that lines in the sand re: spending decisions are only as firm as the emotional resolve of the person who draws them, which is why many experienced hounds pull back before getting sucked down a rabbit hole. In fact, if you really liked the girl as much as you claim, you'd have already been tempted to overspend (whether you succumbed or not) and we'd be hearing about that instead of posts professing love and affection immediately followed by casual contradictory comments about cutting the cord if spending ramps up.
I was having fun playing along to this point, but now the whole suspension of disbelief necessary to do so has been shot. Dammit. ;)
I have a very intimate relationship with my personal finances. I spend more time budgeting, forecasting, and analyzing investments than I spent with any girl from a club, and I even love this aspect of my life more than my children, dog, or ex-wife. Yes, I have affection for the girl I speak of. I honestly want the best for her. But it's nothing compared to the intimacy I share with my personal finances.
I actually have gained knowledge from your replies. And I thank you for that. It's just a shame that everything you write sounds like it came from a frat boy still trying to relive his glory days at the expense of others. It forces everyone else to read between the lines in order to grasp the the true substance behind what you have to say, which in all honesty, can be pretty insightful.
personal finance is only to provide me a wonderful time enjoying beautiful ladies.
You created a new identity to post. This is an anonymous board so you could have used your usual login unless some of us have met you IRL. In which case they have probably figured out who you are. Tell us your usual login if you want the troll accusations to stop.
The relationship you describe in your OP is common. You have a P2P relationship with some genuine affection. Many of us have these relationships. They are great.
In your follow up posts you mention things like marriage material, making a play for her and she is different. None of these things fit with your OP of "just having fun". That takes us back to you are a troll or an idiot. Not because you have feelings for a woman but because you contradict yourself within a few posts and argue it when it is pointed out to you.
Assume she isn't different until she proves other wise. Cashman had good advice, pretend to be broke and see if she meets up with you or even keeps in touch with you. As for cashman's spot on comment about her relationship is with your money, I think the you admit this when you write you won't see her when you are broke.
Friends and girlfriends usually remember and give presents on special days like holidays and Christmas. Does she remember you and give you gifts? Does she ask you what are your plans for her special days like her birthday? Does she tell you about her personal life and about those people special to her. Not just the problems. Not just her plans for the future that require money.
Does she tell you what books, movies or music she likes now? Or does she only talk about herself and her problems? Is money the solution to those problems?
Girlfriends and women friends try to fix the men in their lives. If all she does is tell you how great you are and she never offers up any critical advice or suggestions about your wardrobe, grooming habits or how much money you spend on strippers, she isn't your friend of girlfriend, she is your employee.
This post is already long so I will stop here. Perhaps we need an article , if we don't already have one, on how to tell if "she is different"
To answer your questions - she does some of the things you describe as putting her into a friend category, but not all of them, and there's definitely a line where it ends and the nature of what we're doing is very transparent. I don't have a problem with that and really think that’s how it should be. She comes across like she wouldn't do OTC with just anyone, but I've met her standards and she feels comfortable with me.
While I acknowledge the benefits of cashman’s advice, I don’t think I’m going to use it in this situation. I’m comfortable with the way things are working out. I’m the one who approached her with money, and in doing so I wouldn’t expect her take on the situation to change just because of the way I think of her. And it would be really weird if it did.
While I appreciate the serious responses I’ve received, I believe many readers see the situation as follows:
Man offers girl money for good time.
Girl gives man good time.
Man really likes it and keeps offering money.
Girl thinks this is great and continues to give him a good time.
Man develops feelings for girl.
How dare she not love him back? What a fucking whore.
I have no expectations (or desire) for feelings to be reciprocated. I want the girl to have fun when she’s with me and feel like the whole thing is a pretty good deal for her. I’d also like to see her grow and move on in life, and though I acknowledge that her personal life is just that (it’s HER personal life) and it’s not my place interfere, I wonder if my continued offers enable her not to grow.
I’m not concerned with being taken for a ride financially. I’m very disciplined when it comes to that. Most of the serious replies I’ve received focus just on being used financially. And while I appreciate the concern and acknowledge the relevance of such discussions, what I’m really interested in discussing are situations where the PL acknowledged the “relationship” for what it was, and how did it eventually end?
Kindly show where any of us post anything like that.
Most just taper off as life or other interests get in the way. Some ended abruptly when she left the business or got into a relationship.
The ugly was never too bad. It was mostly abusive texts and phone calls when I refused to bail them out of a financial situation or they got too drunk or high and said or did the wrong thing.