Some sad Shit

29 comments

• flagooner

  •

  6 years ago

  Eye opening article. It mentions that porn is more mainstream now. Yes, it is more widely consumed and the stigma attached to those who enjoy it has all but disappeared. But the way society views the performers and producers remains the same as it was decades ago.
• Huntsman

  •

  6 years ago

  Yeah, it’s hypocrtical that society loves the sex but looks down on sex workers generally.
• Call.Me.Ishmael

  •

  6 years ago

  flagooner said: "Yes, it is more widely consumed and the stigma attached to those who enjoy it has all but disappeared." I don't think that's true at all. We just recently had a thread about how we play dumb (but not too dumb...) when people bring up the subject of strip clubs. We've had multiple threads about how to handle the awkwardness of running into dancers in public places. If the stigma was gone or even mostly gone, we wouldn't have to worry about playing dumb or any sort of awkwardness. People are (mostly) fine with guys going to strip clubs if it's a bachelor party or once-in-a-blue-moon boys' night out, but if you're actually identified as a habitual strip club regular, then most people automatically class you anywhere from weird (best case) to dangerous pervert (worst case). And that's not just women. There are plenty of guys who look down on frequent strip club patrons or adult media consumers. If the stigma were gone or mostly gone then we'd be using our real names here.
• poledancer83

  •

  6 years ago

  very well said!
• rickdugan

  •

  6 years ago

  That was nicely put poledancer. I even put on "We are the World" in the background to give it more umph. ;) But that stigma is never going to completely go away, in large part because many guys are simply never going to shack up with a woman who has had a couple of hundred cocks in her and/or who anyone can find online naked and fucking through a simple Google search. Whether that's fair or not may be worth discussing I suppose, but it doesn't change the reality. But any girl who goes into this business knows that the stigma exists and that there will be a cost for making that choice. After all, any girl over the age of 14 knows how some guys feel about so-called "sluts." So instead of getting all fucked up in the head and killing themselves once the first wave party is over, maybe instead they need to find a way to continue capitalizing on what they have and/or otherwise try to position their lives as best they can. Honestly, I think that a discussion about what phase 2 could be for these girls is far more meaningful than trying to promote a very unlikely change in societal thinking about intimacy.
• 623

  •

  6 years ago

  People are going to be judgemental whenever there is something outside their comfort zone. Until a majority of ppl watch porn openly or go to SC regularly, count on being ostracized if you do. It would be nice if American society embraced non-hurtful differences instead of being afraid of them. I doubt that will happen in my lifetime.
• Call.Me.Ishmael

  •

  6 years ago

  More to the point... there's an irony that ties together the stigma and the money made by women in the adult industry (strip clubs or porn in general). The amount of money a woman can make versus the relatively low work effort is almost entirely a function of the stigma. You're getting paid a premium at least partly because you are willing to do work that most women would be ashamed of. If there were no stigma, then the competition would shoot through the roof and your earning potential would plummet. I'm not saying that this is a good thing. An adult performer who isn't at the level of Stormy Daniels, Jenna Jameson, or Lisa Ann is an outcast and a whore. That can't be a healthy mindset for anyone long term. But, it's worth considering that more legitimacy and less stigma could come with a built-in pay cut.
• poledancer83

  •

  6 years ago

  So what about the guys that sleep with hundreds of women? They arent shamed?
• flagooner

  •

  6 years ago

  @Ishmael I stand by my statement that the stigma around consumers of porn is virtually gone. I referred to porn, not clubbing. I agree with you that people still look at clubbers with a bit of disdain, or they claim to anyway. Whether jokingly or in serious conversation, it seems to be widely accepted that almost everyone at least occasionally watches porn and, heaven forbid, masterbates. Even if they don't, they recognize that the vast majority do and don't view it as abnormal as was the perception years ago.
• mark94

  •

  6 years ago

  You’ve got your cause and effect reversed. Being in the porn industry doesn’t cause people to become unstable. Unstable people are much more likely to enter the porn industry.
• flagooner

  •

  6 years ago

  ^ True, but the industry then magnifies it, kinda like a death spiral. Sorry for the pun, but that is the term.
• Call.Me.Ishmael

  •

  6 years ago

  Poledancer83 said: "So what about the guys that sleep with hundreds of women? They arent shamed?" It's a good point, and the answer depends on context. If I'm able to sleep with hundreds of women via picking them up "in the wild", then there's relatively little shaming. Although there are a lot of women and even some guys who will look down on it. Still, the level of shame is extremely low when compared to women acting the same way. But, if I'm sleeping with hundreds of women who are paid escorts and strippers, then there's orders of magnitude more shaming attached to that behavior.
• Call.Me.Ishmael

  •

  6 years ago

  Flagooner said: "I stand by my statement that the stigma around consumers of porn is virtually gone. I referred to porn, not clubbing." So, there's a guy at work. About once a month or so he and I trade books back and forth. When I can do the exact same thing, but with porn videos, I'll be on your side of this debate. And, when I get on a crowded elevator with a friend, I'm willing to talk about a bunch of topics even with a captive audience present. When it's no longer considered to be freakish and/or obscene to talk about the really fantastic Nina North blowjob video I watched over the weekend in that same elevator, I'll be on your side of this debate.
• JimGassagain

  •

  6 years ago

  It still goes back to a small subset of our culture of young inexperienced girls who like taking the risky, quick and fast rewards that come with the sex industry. Much like a stripper posting her naked photos to guys on a strip club website. There’s not a large section of women doing that either. Things that make you go hmmmm.
• poledancer83

  •

  6 years ago

  Who gives a shit what i do with my pictures?
• Cashman1234

  •

  6 years ago

  The article made many important points. One of the more honest points related to the time spent in between jobs. Also, the pressure to get more into extreme scenes due to the money was also interesting. The stigma related to sex workers might be less, but that may be why straight porn scenes pay less? There’s less taboo - and it’s pushing the industry towards more intense content. Current porn involves choking, spitting in girls mouths, throat fucking, rough anal, hard face slapping, etc. So porn has evolved as well. It’s not an easy business to be in. It’s also not an easy business to leave. The problem is that these girls find fast money and a bit of fame - but there’s no support network around them. They need a lot more support - and the industry doesn’t provide it. I respect all sex workers, but I think it’s especially difficult for porn stars to move past the biz. With the prevalence of internet porn - their past follows them forever. I don’t look down on anyone. However there are many closed minded folks who look down on sex workers. In the end, we are all trying to do our jobs, and trying to earn a living. Regardless of where a person works, they should be respected and left alone. Porn has a way of making young girls look like super human sex machines. It’s not easy to change the persona created. But, it’s very important to view these girls as regular folks, and accept them as fragile humans (as we all are).
• Call.Me.Ishmael

  •

  6 years ago

  There was a story last year (I think) about a relatively well-known, mid-tier pornstar who exited the industry to become an operating room nurse. Did her training, got a job, and was actually a year or so into her new career before her peers discovered her previous work. She lasted a couple of months in outcast / pariah status (and the hospital looking for reasons to ditch her) before she quit. I believe that she's doing porn again, because she believed that it would happen all over again if she went for another nursing job. Not surprising. But also not fair.
• Salty.Nutz

  •

  6 years ago

  the thing is, the majority of men are the ones that get trampled and manipulated by women. PL post on here that strippers are robs, sluts and so forth and not to trust them. but whenever they have that pussy in their face, men act like dumbasses and will tolerate a cheating, rob, sluty hoe. I dont think men care about shaming, as long as they get thier dick wet. its women, that do the shaming. i hope that when OP refers to "society shaming" she means women shaming. this scenario for example, is a stripper more likely to get shit from other strippers in the locker room for doing extras, or from a PL telling her to get off him for being such a big sloppy slut.
• flagooner

  •

  6 years ago

  I see your point Ish.
• flagooner

  •

  6 years ago

  My main point was that it is much more acceptable to be a consumer now, but nothing has changes for the providers.
• flagooner

  •

  6 years ago

  Saying the stigma was virtually nonexistent was a bit exaggerated.
• Cashman1234

  •

  6 years ago

  Flagoneer - that’s a good point - regarding the stigma that was associated with consumers of porn. Years ago, porn was relegated to the back room of a video store. Before that - porn consumers had to go to sleazy movie theaters. Now porn comes right to our homes - via porn websites - and on demand movies. You don’t need to wear a trench coat and a hat to watch. But - the truth about the performers remains. One appearance in a porn video - and a girl is a drug addicted, random cock fucking, whore. I think that’s a horrible brand to attach to anyone. I don’t know how folks can perform in porn and remain sane. I’d definitely find it difficult to detach from having feelings for a costar - but then attempt to attach and have feelings for a partner or spouse. Maybe a major part of the porn stigma is our inability to understand how they can maintain a normal relationship? Many times - when something or someone is misunderstood - it’s easier to shun them - than to take the time and understand how they do what they do.
• Cashman1234

  •

  6 years ago

  One other note - and then I’ll step off the soapbox. If folks hear a girl was in porn - I’m guessing most will think she’s a whore immediately. If folks hear a guy was in straight porn - I’m guessing most will think he’s got a huge cock. Maybe I’m wrong -
• Call.Me.Ishmael

  •

  6 years ago

  Flagooner said: "My main point was that it is much more acceptable to be a consumer now, but nothing has changes for the providers." That's not an unrealistic argument. The needle has probably moved a little bit in favor of porn consumers. But, except for a small fraction of guys in a narrow set of lifestyles, we're mostly in the shadows about it and feel safer that way.
• flagooner

  •

  6 years ago

  ^ You aren't wrong. One thing that has loosened a bit. Celebrities who have sex tapes released aren't treated the same way they were before. Think Pam Anderson, Paris Hilton, Kim Kardashian, and many others. It gets a snicker now when it used to be that they would be humiliated. Of course they aren't considered professional porn stars either, though that is how some got their notoriety.
• Call.Me.Ishmael

  •

  6 years ago

  At this point, when I see news about a celebrity sex video, I assume that the celebrity wants it seen by the public. Because I'm a cynic and they're narcissists.
• skibum609

  •

  6 years ago

  We live during the end of a dynasty. When countries fail the populace dies. Stories like this are the beginning and in ten years will be so common they won't even make the news. As far as being a consumer? Prostitution patrols around here go after the Johns and FOSTA was designed to go after the buyers or force them out of business.
• theDirkDiggler

  •

  6 years ago

  Well from what i gleaned from the article, it seemed the main reasons of the suicides were financial hardship and general loneliness and the inability to deal with them rather than slut shaming. Common reasons regardless of what industry you work for. I think many of the girls in porn own the fact of what they do. Still doesn't make it right and it is an unfair double standard. There were some parallels to the industry of stripping that got my attention. Sex workers in general have to work harder for the same or even less money now because of the great recession and cheaper (free even) alternatives as well as workers that are willing to work for less as well. This is not an industry with infinite paying demand where you can just work as much as you can and make as much as you can, assuming that you don't burn out doing it either. There is also constant competition with newer younger talent that are often (but not always) willing to do more for less. So there is much more awareness or pressure of one's "shelf life". Drug and alcohol abuse are also a major problem that needs to be addressed. I don't have any answers or even suggestions really, just saying. Many of these deaths, whether suicide or not involved drugs and/or alcohol. Substance abuse is usually a symptom and not the cause though. The reasons for the abuse is probably what really needs to be addressed.
• rogertex

  •

  6 years ago

  Feel bad when I read these stories. Sex workers learn the ropes through word of mouth or their own experience. That's the hard way. Many can get it wrong.