Changing the "relationship" dynamic

Yeah - I have the same problem - 9 times out of 10 dancers don't wanna take my $$$ to have sex with me - I guess it's a burden "guys like you and me" must bear.

Easy, say you have been thinking about it and the idea of spending more time in bed sounds awesome (be positive) but you still want to give her something. Offer half of whatever it normally is. Get this out of the way immediately. If she questions it say you had a mistress before and want to transition slowly.

I'm of the PL school of thought that there's no such thing as a free-lunch, particularly when it comes to sex with women and more particularly w.r.t. strippers.

You've been a PL long enough to be able to handle what she may throw at you - I think this thread is more of a humble-brag

All women have needs and insecurities. If hers can’t be satisfied w cash, then a married man would not be wise to have an affair w her.

You said you had a mistress once and don’t want to go there again. I think you are going there again if your relationship with the stripper changes. I don’t think FWB is impossible but I think it is very difficult to go p4p to free with no adverse side effects. I think you’d experience all the joy of the prior mistress.

^^^ Bj he’s not looking for advice he’s just humble bragging as Papi pointed out.

As a wise-man once said - "men use love to get sex - and women use sex to get love"

This can perhaps be extrapolated to women using sex to get anything, and that it may not be about the sex.

Not saying it's universal but ...

My guess? You're close enough in age where she has genuine feelings for you. Does she have kids? She might really need someone there for long-term financial support. After 1.5yrs, you should be able to talk honestly about what she wants.

@ 25, I don’t see what’s to brag ab. Even married women still want their husband’s money. Its totally possible she’s developed feelings for him and wants (needs) more, but that’s not a good thing.

^^^ That’s the brag the douchbag wants us to know there’s at least one person in this world that doesn’t consider him to be a douchebag.

Girl doesn't want money, that's okay. But you might still want to be giving it to her, "let me take care of you, with money, making sure your bills are paid and that you have some savings." That makes it mistress maintainence.

But, she might be wanting more relationship than you want.

SJG

@rick: Is she still taking your money at the club?

On the surface, this looks like the same situation I have with the MILF. She won’t take my money for OTC, but won’t hesitate to take it in the club. Of course, she’s not doing anything but dancing for me at the club, and I’m not doing much more than drinks or dances there.

She’s since made it clear that she’s only really interested in my tongue, and to a lesser extent (see what I did there?), my dick during the OTC, no riding off into the sunset together or anything like that. She’s as happily married as I am, and wants to keep it that way.

If I were you, I’d ask her straight up what she’s looking for. If you’re not prepared to meet those needs, make that clear.

You know the kinds of things of which you need to be wary, just pay attention.

@Papi, way to go, 90% failure rate but keep on trying. Did you learn that healthy attitude from observing strippers? - frequent rejection but keep on trying and onto the next person.

It’s a stripper, so money will definitely come back up with her.

I agree with Papi, he knows a thing or two about humble-brags

@Papi, no humble brag intended. I'm inclined to turn this down and disengage from the girl because of the potential complications, but thought I'd poll this community of degenerates (myself included) first to see if there is a common angle that I am missing here.

@gmd: I am not paying her very much ITC and never have. I buy a few drinks, give her a few stage tips and occasionally slip her a $20 ITC. The bulk of her earnings from me have always been OTC, but on ITC/OTC combo nights I am a decent take as I also cover her tipouts to leave early.

@Bj: What you posted about some legit attachment is probably my biggest concern. I have zero interest in anything remotely like that, which is why I am actually hoping that this is just some ploy to convert me into a sugar daddy. I can deal with this as a commercial thing but not as anything else, including some messy romance hustle. One of my fears is that we have spent so many nights OTC that she has become comfortable being with me - again another reason why it might be time to disengage.

@25: Seeing a pedophile defender like you calling someone else a d-bag is rich indeed.

Thanks for recognizing my strengths realDougster

Yeah realDougster likes to make cute little observations from the safety of his non-funny parody profile.

"I am actually hoping that this is just some ploy to convert me into a sugar daddy."
___________
What's the difference between a sugar-relationship and a paying the same person for sex for 16 or 17 months? Seriously, they're one and the same, to me.

I dunno Dugan you seem to be the guy who likes to victimize young drug addicted women, I bet IRL you are a ghoul.
I stated this a long time ago, your main theme has been as long as you have been posting here, is how can I use someone else’s misfortune for my personal benefit.
If you aren’t a sleezeball and a douchebag, than I don’t know who is.

Maybe she wants a regular allowance, instead of pay for each time.

Well then, here’s hoping all she wants is more of your money. :)

Ask her what her angle is. She may be getting ideas in her head. Squash them before they become an issue. IF you're looking for drama free tell her you want to keep it professional or if she's looking for a fuck buddy tell her you'll think about it.

I have a similar situation, but I always p4p. Keep what you are doing and let her end the situation as it is now. You have been doing fine with her for a year and a half, until she demands more, then walk if you want.

"Maybe she wants a regular allowance, instead of pay for each time."
_________
I don't think there's any set definition for sugaring and PPM is just as likely as regular allowance.

Most well-adjusted guys would just ask her intentions after 17 months -- but that's apparently too complicated for @Dugan, who's looking for attention here.

I guess The System has unintended consequences

Do hotel. When done place the usual cash on the table. She'll grab it. Problem solved.

@gmd: Fingers crossed.

@Bj: Exactly, or maybe she wants me to start picking up some of her bills, or pay to get her car back on the road, or rent an apartment for her and her kids, or etc.,etc. Things aren't going well with her SO right now, so maybe she's lining her ducks in a row for an escape plan. Who knows? i'm concerned that after 17ish months and maybe 25-30 OTC trips she is starting to view me through a different lens, which I do not want. I enjoy our time in the sack precisely because she is affectionate and fun, but I have a bad feeling that she has other angles in the works.

God damn this is an easy answer while all you guys over analayze things.

Strippers want husbands too, and in some cases strippers think what appears to be a successful businessman would fit the bill perfectly.

she might be hoping for help w getting a new place or bills, and might need a lump ammt. Definitely, talk to her.

@Bj: Agreed. To be clear, I questioned her motives when she first brought this up, but she stuck to her original story. Obviously I don't believe her and I doubt that most others here would either in a similar circumstance, so here we are. Thanks again for your input in this thread.

She wants a dude with a big dick

If she’s refusing your money it means she probably wants you to see her in a different way. Either that or she’s expecting that you’ll pay anyway and she’ll earn some points with you. Either way not your problem. She’ll either get pissed you didn’t offer to pay or she’ll get back to business next time. Why sweat it until she starts asking for more of you. When she does that’s when you shut it down.

simply get married. make life simple. give her all your money.

@Skin: It's the "pissed" (read:scorned) part that I don't want to deal with. It's hard for a girl to feel truly taken advantage of when she agrees to sex for a price and then is paid the agreed upon amount. It's quite another when she has sex with you for some other reason and then feels put aside. I won't get into what I had to do to shake loose of the last scorned mistress (who was a strip club bartender, lol), but it was not good and not something I never want to repeat.

If she’s going though a hard time, it’s better to talk to her and give her a little bonus somehow, rather than get involved in any way. When I hear ab a dj or manager going through a hard time, I’ll tip them extra generously for a little while (like a week or two) and tell them, “I’m sorry you are going through a hard time. I’m putting you on double tips for the week” or something like that. That’s better than, “call me if you need anything.” More like, “here’s a little extra money to pay a friend/family member to help you if you need anything.”

i’m going through a hard time...

Rick, you know that what she wants is more than money. But also, cheating on a spouse is not a long term viable strategy. I figured that out a long time ago, when AMP girls wanted me to be seeing them at their homes. I knew that that would be explosive, as even though the girl would be getting money, eventually her feelings would get hurt.

Eventually you need to either make our marriage work, or end it. You need either a Marriage Counselor, or a Divorce Lawyer.

We have at least one Divorce Lawyer on this forum, what say he?

I knew one strip club dancer, tall, huge tits big haired Latina bombshell. She laughed when she told me she was going to school to become a marriage counselor.

Justme62, hope you are okay.

SJG

Well, to close the loop on this, I declined. Sure I could have handed her the money anyway at the end, but I have no interest in any drama or ambiguity of intentions. Also, it's definitely time to find a new favorite, though I have enough decent options in the meantime to hold me over until I do.

What did she want? Or did she refuse to lay it out there?

I have a similar issue. The only difference is that it involves 4 strippers at the club, each of them want to have no strings attached sex with me OTC. I think I'm going to turn them down though because it would change the current relationships that I enjoy.

Any suggestions?

Bj, I never got to the point of figuring that out as I didn't want to hear it. In part I think it is because I know myself well enough to realize that, if I kept interacting with her and she held to her original story long enough, I would have ended up in that hotel room with her. She is hot as hell and a very fun lay. From there, the potential complications would doubtlessly rear their ugly heads. So instead I scratched my most recent itch with one of my holdover girls.

There was an AMP girl who wanted right away to move in with me. This bomb shell hot Thai girl who dressed exactly in the slutty way that I liked. She'd be welcome in any strip club. And she gave a FS-GFE audition which was second to none.

I did come back to that shop, and encounter her in other shops, trying to cut in with me with other girls. I would not deal with her though, as she was just too much.

She had the right to try and make things go the way she wanted, and I wish that as a minimum I could have been bedding her regularly.

But I could not because I was married. I had tried a marriage councilor, and it only made things worse. So what I needed was a divorce lawyer. You don't find so many of those working in AMPs.

But I still wasn't ready yet. And later I would stop AMPing and SCing, to try and make the marriage work.

Cheating on a spouse to get polygamy is not a long term viable option.

Swingers Clubs yes, as the spouse will be there with you. But going out to play while she stays home, no. That does not work.

Today such an AMP girl, yes she'd get bedded regularly, and be well paid for photo modeling sessions. But I still would not let her move in with me. I don't want that. Eventually she'd be meeting the people of the group I am building, and likely end up being inducted in to it. She may or may not want to retire from commercial sex work, but either way, she'd be well taken care of and would be groomed for a later professional career and gain many other social and financial security benefits as well.

SJG

Led Zeppelin, Danish TV 1969. They only had their first album out when this was made.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-WSbMW7…