I can’t imagine that really working out. It doesn’t seem like a natural progression. I can see a guy perceiving it that way, but I would think it would always be hustle on her part. If she had real feelings, there would be a whole lot of crazy drama going on. Strippers in love aren’t chill. It’s just that those kinds of walls (if the chemistry and feelings had the potential from the beginning) would be hard to break down. I’d think there would be resentment, a lack of trust, and a lack of respect.
@bj99 "would be hard to break down. I’d think there would be resentment, a lack of trust, and a lack of respect" is this always the case if you know your gf is a stripper? even if you didnt meet your gf in a strip club.
No. I don’t think so at all. I think it would be to going from regular, to friends w benefits, to gf. There’s a lot of blanks in there, especially If there was real chemistry on her part.
I went from regular to friend with stripper benefits with my ATF gridget(TUSCL) but there was never any illusion by either of us that it would ever be more than that.
There is a better chance if two things happen....1) she decides to quit stripping 2) he decides to stop going to clubs.
I can speak from experience with this topic ( probably could write a novel) and there is always a lot of crazy drama going on........ along with a lack of trust and at least a perceived lack of respect.
I have to admit that I’ve been extraordinarily lucky in this regard. Little to no drama, and each of our spouses has been tolerant.
Of course, too many bad things would have to happen to each of us, that neither of us wants to happen, for either of us to have any illusions about we two being any more than we are. So we thank our lucky stars that we have what we have, which really is pretty damned great, and not worry about what we don’t have.
I think the first transition can maybe happen but it would be very tough. I don’t think the fransition from fwb to gf would happen. Whenever the relationship starts out in the realm of sex and money, both parties intentions will always have a cloud of questioning motives and, perhaps, a lack of true respect for the other, at least to the level of respect necessary to get to the gf level. Thus, I think that when something starts as a transaction, at least one party has that in their mind and categorizes things accordingly. The guy might become a RIL and develop more feelings and the gal might genuinely think he is a nice guy. But the psychological limits are already in place for at least one of them.
I do think that theoretically the same stripper and the same customer could’ve ended up in a non-transactional relationship but only if they had met when she wasn’t already naked and he wasn’t already shelling out currency.
@Huntsman: There’s no such thing as a “non-transactional relationship.” We’re always trading in *something*, even if it’s an intangible such as “it makes me feel good.”
Now, if by “non-transactional,” you mean “no money,” I’d tend to agree, if it weren’t for my own experience.
^ but in p4p the trade off for money being the transactional medium is emotional needs. You are paying her not to have emotional needs. Girls use the money to separate themselves. They don’t feel used bc they are getting paid; not bc you have mutual feelings. It’s got to be hard to come back from that.
GMD, I do mean “no money” when I’m talking about non-transactional relationships. I realize things are always more complicated and that even in a good marriage, money is involved. So is security and visions of a fairy tale life we probably all envisioned when growing up.
My point involves the beginning of the relationship where the woman is a stripper or escort and the guy is spending money seeking pussy. When a relationship starts that way, I don’t think it’s going to transition into anything else.
I do realize that you’ve had a different experience. I thinks that is extraordinary.
I've had not one, but several transitions of ATF to FWB, over a few decades of SCing (although all but one happened when I was in my 40s). I only considered trying to shift to GF once, and I count my lucky stars that that didn't happen (she was the one who wasn't interested, so not my choice, but in hindsight, I really dodged a bullet). I just could not handle the emotional rollercoaster of being deeply emotionally involved with a stripper who is still in stripper mode. By contrast, though, FWB with a stripper is amazing and if I could make it happen again, I'd do it in a second. Note, of course, that's it's not really my choice: in all cases where there was a transition to FWB, the stripper clearly made the decision that's what she wanted, and pursued me until she got it.
My belief as to the "whys" in all this have changed. I had at the time believed she likes me, enjoys hanging out with me, and is attracted and excited and turned on by me, exactly as with any other FWB in her life -- very much about the sex. These days, with some hindsight, yes of course she liked me and enjoyed hanging out, but I'm not so certain about the attraction, which means I was NOT "exactly as with any other FWB in her life". My current theory is that, in all these cases I was an attentive older man who supported and guided and validated her, to some extent I was the person she could vent to that could talk her down (that is, I was the stand-in for the gay best friend all women secretly want LOL), I was the older man who was always on her side (uh what was I standing in for now? huh, not sure on this one), and I gave her access to some life wisdom she otherwise didn't have (mentor and guide). And I think the sexual benefits were not because she was attracted to me, but because she liked me and wanted me in her life, so the benefits were something to keep me there.
My experience. If it doesn't change that first night ( as in she has a change of heart and doesn't want you to pay because she feels it means more) then it ain't gonna happen.
GACA: my experience is the opposite: in 100% of cases, she was my ATF and I was her best regular first. Now, who knows what goes on in a woman's mind, she might have been thinking, "this is a good one, I'll keep him paying as long as I can, but eventually let him switch to free to keep him around" from that very first night. It just didn't feel that way to me, it felt like we got closer and closer, and then I wasn't paying
Thanks for all the great responses....I'm trying to keep things all p4p....But sometimes I hang dangerously on the edge of something else....maybe too friendly, too close, hanging with the stripper friends...but I've always made sure I paid...I think I pissed her off a couple times....She said, i thought you were low on cash, (but I had made some more on sales)....I told her you know I don't want to waste your time, i always come with money....She says its all good...so I guess it is.
But I do get the feel of what Subraman is talking about...Its just I'm not trying to go in that direction, but she seems to like that I'm older and will listen to anything and not judge...and the stuff I've heard is pretty personal...I'm also venting too, but hey I'm paying so......It's just really cool to have someone listen to you who doesn't seemingly judge...and who will listen to anything....like a therapist only better because of that amazing sex...
I've had the ATF to FWB part, but I never had any intention of ever going to the gf part. I never got emotionally attached in that way. I enjoyed her company we had a good time together but when it ended, I didn't fell sad at all. I knew it would eventually end and I just moved on. That might be hard for some to believe but the fact it was transactional for a long time made it easy to understand what this was about. She also had the stereotypical stripper flakeyness and phone issues which made it easy to not get attached.
I assume that in OP's phases (ATF to FWB to GF), the ATF phase included PFP extras/sex.
Leaves me wondering if the ATF phase was just dances in club and not sex, could the transition to GF be more easily made.
Purely academic reasons, of course, ya right.
I suspect I'll get some don't be an idiot responses, but had to ask.
@Bj99: “but in p4p the trade off for money being the transactional medium is emotional needs. You are paying her not to have emotional needs. Girls use the money to separate themselves. They don’t feel used bc they are getting paid; not bc you have mutual feelings. It’s got to be hard to come back from that.”
I won’t comment on why girls do it, other than to say that my general observations back up your contention here.
As for the guys, I definitely agree with you there, though I think that’s tied in with the fact that for old, fat, ugly guys like me, it’s easier to get laid if one is willing to pony up cash. I’m not sure which of those is primary/cause, and which is secondary/effect, if either are, but it’s spot on with me.
@Subraman: “I was an attentive older man who supported and guided and validated her, to some extent I was the person she could vent to”
WRT my one experience with this type of transition, this hits the mark exactly. For anyone who’s read my <a href=“[view link] Losers Anonymous</a>article, that shit actually happened.
It was hard for me to believe at first, but to her, I *was* different. She told me, on more than one occasion, ever after leaving town and getting married, that I was respectful, I didn’t pressure her, I didn’t judge her, I treated her like a person, I listened to her, I gave her as good as she gave me, and I was never rude or tried to get her to do something she didn’t want to. And *she* was the one who first started “forgetting” the money issue, leaving without it on more than one occasion.
I won’t suggest that anyone else deliberately try to go out and make this transition, quite the opposite actually, because I’m sure the fact that this has all worked out as well as it has is a fluke. It could have been a *lot* worse.
On the other hand, I was telling another dancer last week as I was stroking her naked body and relating my “other side of the country” woes when she kind of cynically said “maybe you just need a new girlfriend.” I told her, “Nah. It might not be the very smartest thing I ever did, but I don’t regret it, and I can’t just kick her to the curb because she’s far away.”
She sat up at that point, gave me a very surprised look, and hugged me.
So maybe I am different. I don’t know.
This is not my own experience just hypothetical. My own latest is ATF no extras other than maybe FIV and DFK which really isn't an extra...then OTC...FS...Now it's mostly OTC. She's very open about everything and I hear it all...I've been to her place and hung with her and stripper friends while they Doo all sorts of things...I've never asked her to do anything she doesn't want to and shes incredibly nice to me..I would say I'm pretty generous.
My biggest problem I had with the dancer I am referring to is that I met her before she became a stripper and the relationship for lack of a better term was on again off again --during one of the off times she became a stripper and once that happened for all practical purposes the dynamic changed.
Although I am not one for stereotyping in her case they fit. In my mind I was still dealing with a person that no longer really existed and I was willing to give her way too many chances although with each meltdown that occurred I became less and less forgiving.
Overall I've been extremely lucky with the women I have met dancers or not, through SA, or in any type relationship. For whatever the reason in this one instance I was willing to let it go on to long....
I’d try to avoid the transition described by the OP. I don’t think it’s healthy. It’s possible for it to occur (but rare). There can be more drama than desired. There can also be jealousy and your desires will most likely not align with the dancer’s desires.
If you begin a relationship with a dancer entirely outside of the club - it’s possible to be successful. But the guy must have his shit together. No jealousy, no inquiries about what his dancer gf did last night, no checking her texts.
And the bf must deliver the bacon in the bedroom! Lots of thick hard bacon!
37 comments