I was once told that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. But how many of us go back to the same club over and over again or see the same girl over and over again and expect things to get better, and then surprised when it's not. I read reviews in here all the time of guys going back to the same s**thole club only to be surprised it's still a s**thole, or to see the same dancer that is a ROB and be astounded when she rips them off again. I have found myself doing so over and over again. Is it our optimistic nature, forgetfulness, or just nothing better to do or where to go?
I’ve gone back to the same girls at the same club, but not because I *expect* things to be different, but because I *hope* they will. Sometimes it works out, like with the ATF and the MILF, and sometimes it doesn’t. But even if it doesn’t, I might meet somebody else.
Engage with a girl, do the ITC maximum. Then ASAP move to be seeing her outside, P4P, civilian, whatever works. Try to steer it to regular overnighters.
This may or may not go that well. But at least you won't be seeing her only in the club.
The best way to encourage an activity is with inconsistent positive reinforcement. Are you sure it’s always bad? Or did you once, or occasionally, have the experience you want?
Why would one want to keep seeing a girl in a strip club?
P4P sex or sex acts is never really going to be that good. The girl has got to want it. Makes no difference that she is getting money, she has to really want it beyond that.
You see her the first time and proceed, and it could be real good. But it is rare that a girl would be able to be consistently that good for you if you are just seeing her on an on and off again basis.
In countries other than the US, well off men keep mistresses. They do give them money. They are not wives, but they are not hookers either.
In AMPs and strip clubs I have usually gotten some extremely good treatment. But the reason for this is that the girl sees meeting me as the start of an ongoing and escalating relationship. So she not only gives me GFE, she gives GFA ( Girl Friend Audition ).
But when she would see that I did not follow thru and take her outside and keep seeing her regularly, she was righteously pissed. From that point on it was never going to be good.
In my experience the first ITC encounter is the best ITC you will have with her. She can really pour it. But beyond that, you need to be seeing her outside.
The girls would deal with me, not as a customer, but as a likely BF/husband. Then when they would see that that was not to be, no more like that.
And always, if you want it to be that good, learn how to get girls DFKing right off. Not really that difficult. Girls respect and deliver for guys they see as confident and assertive.
@Bj99, if you were talking to me, I nearly always get *an* experience I want, even if it’s not what I’d prefer the end game be.
For instance, if I go to a club and a dancer gives me a sub-par experience, it’s unlikely I’ll seek her out again expecting it to be better. But I won’t necessarily turn her down if *she* approaches *me* and can convince me she actually intends to give me a better time.
Now, there *is* a point at which I’ll cut my losses and bail, but even the worst club will likely get at least an annual visit just so I can see what’s up.
I was replying to the op, but I appreciate your explanation. I think it’s sometime like when women go shopping too. Like you are hoping to find a great deal, but you know you probably won’t.
Usually, in my experience, the girl may need to be charmed some first, then she is DFKing and getting front side massaged.
Or maybe she is already psyched up for full throttle GFE. If so, then she is trying to line me up for OTC's. Sometimes they even have a civilian relationship in view beyond that.
Most of them don't offer 'real sex' just for money. That would mean that their feelings are always getting hurt. They offer it for guys they have got in their sights.
Totally different, a pro who has learned to offer basic FS, and a woman who really lowers her emotional barriers and gives herself to you.
And the strength of strip clubs is always that potential for front room makeout sessions. Its the unstructured and non-committal fraternizing which make this possible.
But you will get that once, not by continuing to see her in the club. So have your outside liaisons planned out, and let her know that this is your intent at the earliest opportunity.
@ impala - Yes, I'm guilty of going back to the same lame club over and over again, and that exact quote (I believe it's usually attributed to Einstein) has popped into my head more than once. I do try and vary the days and time I go for whatever that's worth. And like Bj99 says, while it's hit and miss, good experiences are frequent enough to keep me coming back.
Knuckleheads, read what I actually said, "P4P sex or sex acts is never really going to be that good. The girl has got to want it. Makes no difference that she is getting money, she has to really want it beyond that."
Let me clarify, one time money alone is not that much of a motive for a girl to really open herself. You can have great sex with a woman in a P4P venue. But usually her motives are much more complex than money.
You are the people who have extremely limited experience, that you do not see this. Your experience may not be limited in frequency or cost, but it is limited in depth that you do not see that girls want lots of things more than money.
For me - if it's a club I've never had a good time at, I may recon-it once in a while (1x or 2x per year considering I SC a lot).
Where I get into PL-trouble w.r.t. a club is when it's a club I consistently had a good-time at but then the club started going sideways per se and I keep going-back either trying to recreate my old good experiences, or thinking that perhaps I've been hitting it at a bad-time - sometimes these clubs just stay sideways and I eventually give up on them, but sometimes they do make a comeback if only somewhat close to what they used to be.
my life is pretty boring. i rather be at a SC looking at ass and getting faded than watching tv, playing video games, looking at porn, being at a regular night club. i go during working hours so it does not cut into my time with wife and kids.
I tried the near impossible tonight ( for me). Sex two nights in a row. Last night was heaven. Hard as a rock, 3 or 4 positions, mutual climax ... an ideal evening for a man approaching mid 70's.
Tonight she (my ATF) initiated it. I took a viagra, took a shower, she undressed and climbed into my bed with me. Our usual foreplay and yet I was still limp.
Now am I insane to have done the same thing over again and expected the same result? Or a different result? I'll hand it to my partner - she knew what she wanted; and she worked on it 15 or 20 minute BBBJ and the little head responded. No where near the intensity of 24 hours earlier, but still everything I could want.
My point is that there needn't be a hum drum boredom to p4p with the same dancer; it's just tied to expectations and mutual satisfaction. She's off to work tomorrow night and I'll pick her up at 1:00 am for the ride home and hear her stories of PL's dropping their money on her. Life is good.
SCing would be an exercise of insanity if you really did do the exact same things every time and got the exact same results every time, but expected differently. However, a different girl and sometimes a different club can make all the difference. Even with the same girl and the same club, you don't always do the same things and get the same results. So it's not the same hopes and disappointments every time. Sometime i've gotten more than i hoped for or expected. Sometimes a new girl comes along and blows your old experiences away. As well as how realistic your expectations really are. Or sometimes i pretty much do pretty similar things as the last time but i expect pretty similar results as the last time. And it usually ends up being that way. That's not the definition of insanity.
"I read reviews in here all the time of guys going back to the same s**thole club only to be surprised it's still a s**thole"
Sounds like many of my reviews. :D
Except I'm not surprised that it's still a shithole, I expect that it will be. The difference is that I go back hoping that I run into that gem that I do find every once in awhile.
If there weren’t “insane” pl’s - there wouldn’t be many dancers with regulars. If guys can’t be strung along - like puppy dogs - then how could the clubbing industry survive?
Bj’s right - a tiny change to a dancers approach - and some pl’s will think she really likes him! “She doesn’t smile at the other guys like that!” It’s smart dancers who know to make little changes - to keep Horny customers coming back again and again.
I think part of the reason some of us go back to the same shitholes is we’re thinking there is going to be a new dancer(s) there.
Because, face it, it’s a tough industry to be doing for 20 or 30 years. Most girls don’t last very long. Turnover is pretty high (at least in my area). You may have a few that have been doing it for years, but most get burned out on it, or they find a PL to take care of them.
So I think much of it is hoping to find a new gem in that shit hole. lol.
Warhawks - that’s one of the things that keeps me coming back. I like the variety and the potential of finding a new hot dancer.
I’m like Forest Gump - as I think certain clubs are like a box of chocolates - as there is a different line up each time I open the door and my eyes adjust to the lighting!
It’s definitely dependent on the club - as I’ve heard certain clubs have the same lineup more frequently than others.
Like Papi and others have mentioned it is worth occassionally stopping into a club that has let you down in the past. Dancers, managers and rules change over time and what had been a disappointing club can turn into a great club. Even if the club as a whole hasn't changed you always have the chance of finding a new dancer that will make the visit worthwhile.
As for going back to a particular dancer that has disappointed you repeatedly in the past, that's just insane. There are plenty of other girls out there. If it's someone you've had a lot of good experiences with in the past I can see continuing to go back after 1 or maybe 2 subpar visits but beyond that just move on. Anyone csn have a bad day or two but beyond that is a trend that isn't worth continuing.
One of the reasons I quit going to clubs in DC is exactly that, no matter the variables the end result isn't or at least for me hasn't been different.....same with some of the places in Maryland although the reasons for dissatisfaction there have more to do with the appearance of the dancers ( especially in Baltimore)
There are a fair amount of pieces to the puzzle of why a club is good---management, clients, noise level, comfort level, quality of the girls, sometimes the quantity of the girls, decent bar, safe parking, etc.....not to mention in my case at least my mood and when I realized had the free time to go mongering.........( I normally end up in clubs as a last minute idea)
Without the "bad" in life the "good" would soon stop being good. An 80 degree day in San Diego means jack, an 80 degree day in April in Boston is better than sex....
I keep going back to the same club over and over again because after 17 years of being a member on TUSCL. I know I'm not going to find anything better without traveling outside of the U.S. I've only hit one other club in the last year and it was just out of curiosity since it is the closet to my house. So my number of reviews has fallen off to nearly nothing. And that is probably not going to change.
I have often gone back the same clubs now and in the past. There's a lot of turn over in the clubs. For me though it's months between visits so take that into account.
Only once, and the world famous saloon, have I had to say enough's enough and stop going back to that well. As the visits kept being not to my liking.
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." To define the broad scope of insanity in such narrow terms is pretty silly. One can do the same thing, but results can be influenced by variables. Strip clubs have variables. :)
Thank you taxi_driver for using your own density to so well illustrate my point.
One time P4P money is not much of a motivation for a girl to open up.
As you wrote, "Then you've never had sex with a p4p virgin who only decided to break down and take you up on the offer because she's pissed at her boyfriend for cheating. Trust me SJG, the girl will open herself up pretty quickly."
That is a classic case of a girl having a more complex motivation than one time P4P money.
She wants to be fucked. Paying her is just a social conviviality like buying her a drink.
Most of the people on TUSCL are really dense about women and their motivations.
You talked about a girl yielding and going for P4P, because she was mad at her boyfriend. But you tried to use that as an example, and you proved my point, that one time money alone is not enough to get her to open up. She has to want to fuck you.
Well I would suggest that the reason that that one was so good was that she had more complex motivations.
If you treat the girls like civilians, and never act like money buys them, give them money but never mention it until they do, then you can very often get mind blowing service.
I first learned this decades ago in AMPs. Other guys are lying on the table offering the girl money, while I am on my feet smooth talking her and DFKing her.
It does not always work that way, but when it does the FS which results is mind blowing, more of a Girl Friend Audition.
Being the world class ace you are, SJG, obviously it hasn't occured to you that assertions you make have any interest to us and that this forum would be better if you weren't clogging it up with your inanity.
Vince, what caliber of gun is being held to your head. Revolver or semi-auto? Muzzle loaded dueling pistol?
Most of the time when guys pay women, it is paying for instant action, paying for her to go away and not get involved with him, paying for permission to treat her like a prostitute.
Well most guys treat the women in strip clubs and AMPs like prostitutes.
I learned decades ago that this is not a good idea, and to recognize the ways that works.
For guys accustomed to dividing women into two categories, the Mother - Whore dynamic, what I am saying will be beyond that capacity of the human digestive system.
Then I also draw from what Strippers and AMP Girls tell me, and what people write on RubMaps.
For example we have talked about this. One guy said that if he wants to be doing OTC with a strip club girl, he will ask something like, "Do you do outside sessions?"
I flagged that right off as treating her like a prostitute, or potential prostitute. A lengthy heated exchange ensued.
I would NEVER do what that guy does. If I like a girl I come on to her in a 100% civilian manner, like I was just meeting her at a party.
Same for that chumps game of 'buying dances'. Guys start off asking what they can do and for how much money.
I would never do that. I am telling her about myself, politely asking about her, and trying to steer it to a full blown front room makeout session.
If she is refusing my advances, but still trying to sell dances, that does not bode well for her.
But if she is accepting my advances, then it is full speed ahead.
Money will be talked about, but not until the first mention of it comes from her.
Some AMP girls will initially refuse full service. So guys offer money. I never do that. I just keep talking to her, coming on to her, getting to know her. Eventually she mentions money. It is because I never try to offer her money that she treats me very differently from a standard customer, so much so that they are still talking about me when I come back in, say, 2 weeks later.
SJG
This kind of stuff has been talked about at great length in previous threads and posts.
I give them no BS. No reason to. I am 100% straight with them, I learned how much pull this has with them in my earliest visits to strip clubs, many decades ago.
Girl who started with, "*I don't go out with customers*" and then hearing me talk matter of factually about who I am and what I do, and then being almost apologetic for her brusqueness, "You don't understand, I get hit on by 50 guys a night." And then I come home late from work around 10pm the next night and find her voice on my old mechanical answering machine.
That women should ALWAYS BE TREATED HAS CIVILIANS has always paid off for me, and I never deviate from this. I think it is just common sense.
In my view, treating women as prostitutes is stupid, its done by people who have some really screwed up ideas about women.
SJG gives the prostitutes he’s not fucking, no BS he comes here and gives us the BS. LOL
You dumbass you haven’t interacted with a non inflatable woman in your whole life.
"and then you end it with unsupported assertions about other people. Can women sense the negativity towards others radiating from everything you do?"
????
Treating a woman like a prostitute is not very bright.
Once they see that I am not doing that, they shift gears completely. I learned that early on, when I found her voice on my answering machine the next night. And I learned it in AMPs too.
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This may or may not go that well. But at least you won't be seeing her only in the club.
SJG
P4P sex or sex acts is never really going to be that good. The girl has got to want it. Makes no difference that she is getting money, she has to really want it beyond that.
You see her the first time and proceed, and it could be real good. But it is rare that a girl would be able to be consistently that good for you if you are just seeing her on an on and off again basis.
In countries other than the US, well off men keep mistresses. They do give them money. They are not wives, but they are not hookers either.
SJG
But when she would see that I did not follow thru and take her outside and keep seeing her regularly, she was righteously pissed. From that point on it was never going to be good.
In my experience the first ITC encounter is the best ITC you will have with her. She can really pour it. But beyond that, you need to be seeing her outside.
The girls would deal with me, not as a customer, but as a likely BF/husband. Then when they would see that that was not to be, no more like that.
And always, if you want it to be that good, learn how to get girls DFKing right off. Not really that difficult. Girls respect and deliver for guys they see as confident and assertive.
SJG
For instance, if I go to a club and a dancer gives me a sub-par experience, it’s unlikely I’ll seek her out again expecting it to be better. But I won’t necessarily turn her down if *she* approaches *me* and can convince me she actually intends to give me a better time.
Now, there *is* a point at which I’ll cut my losses and bail, but even the worst club will likely get at least an annual visit just so I can see what’s up.
Boy are *you* wrong. Your experience is apparently very limited.
Or maybe she is already psyched up for full throttle GFE. If so, then she is trying to line me up for OTC's. Sometimes they even have a civilian relationship in view beyond that.
Most of them don't offer 'real sex' just for money. That would mean that their feelings are always getting hurt. They offer it for guys they have got in their sights.
Totally different, a pro who has learned to offer basic FS, and a woman who really lowers her emotional barriers and gives herself to you.
And the strength of strip clubs is always that potential for front room makeout sessions. Its the unstructured and non-committal fraternizing which make this possible.
But you will get that once, not by continuing to see her in the club. So have your outside liaisons planned out, and let her know that this is your intent at the earliest opportunity.
SJG
SJG
Let me clarify, one time money alone is not that much of a motive for a girl to really open herself. You can have great sex with a woman in a P4P venue. But usually her motives are much more complex than money.
You are the people who have extremely limited experience, that you do not see this. Your experience may not be limited in frequency or cost, but it is limited in depth that you do not see that girls want lots of things more than money.
SJG
Where I get into PL-trouble w.r.t. a club is when it's a club I consistently had a good-time at but then the club started going sideways per se and I keep going-back either trying to recreate my old good experiences, or thinking that perhaps I've been hitting it at a bad-time - sometimes these clubs just stay sideways and I eventually give up on them, but sometimes they do make a comeback if only somewhat close to what they used to be.
SJG
Tonight she (my ATF) initiated it. I took a viagra, took a shower, she undressed and climbed into my bed with me. Our usual foreplay and yet I was still limp.
Now am I insane to have done the same thing over again and expected the same result? Or a different result? I'll hand it to my partner - she knew what she wanted; and she worked on it 15 or 20 minute BBBJ and the little head responded. No where near the intensity of 24 hours earlier, but still everything I could want.
My point is that there needn't be a hum drum boredom to p4p with the same dancer; it's just tied to expectations and mutual satisfaction. She's off to work tomorrow night and I'll pick her up at 1:00 am for the ride home and hear her stories of PL's dropping their money on her. Life is good.
I just hope it's a comedy, not a tragedy.
Sounds like many of my reviews. :D
Except I'm not surprised that it's still a shithole, I expect that it will be. The difference is that I go back hoping that I run into that gem that I do find every once in awhile.
Bj’s right - a tiny change to a dancers approach - and some pl’s will think she really likes him! “She doesn’t smile at the other guys like that!” It’s smart dancers who know to make little changes - to keep Horny customers coming back again and again.
Because, face it, it’s a tough industry to be doing for 20 or 30 years. Most girls don’t last very long. Turnover is pretty high (at least in my area). You may have a few that have been doing it for years, but most get burned out on it, or they find a PL to take care of them.
So I think much of it is hoping to find a new gem in that shit hole. lol.
I’m like Forest Gump - as I think certain clubs are like a box of chocolates - as there is a different line up each time I open the door and my eyes adjust to the lighting!
It’s definitely dependent on the club - as I’ve heard certain clubs have the same lineup more frequently than others.
As for going back to a particular dancer that has disappointed you repeatedly in the past, that's just insane. There are plenty of other girls out there. If it's someone you've had a lot of good experiences with in the past I can see continuing to go back after 1 or maybe 2 subpar visits but beyond that just move on. Anyone csn have a bad day or two but beyond that is a trend that isn't worth continuing.
There are a fair amount of pieces to the puzzle of why a club is good---management, clients, noise level, comfort level, quality of the girls, sometimes the quantity of the girls, decent bar, safe parking, etc.....not to mention in my case at least my mood and when I realized had the free time to go mongering.........( I normally end up in clubs as a last minute idea)
Only once, and the world famous saloon, have I had to say enough's enough and stop going back to that well. As the visits kept being not to my liking.
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." To define the broad scope of insanity in such narrow terms is pretty silly. One can do the same thing, but results can be influenced by variables. Strip clubs have variables. :)
One time P4P money is not much of a motivation for a girl to open up.
As you wrote, "Then you've never had sex with a p4p virgin who only decided to break down and take you up on the offer because she's pissed at her boyfriend for cheating. Trust me SJG, the girl will open herself up pretty quickly."
That is a classic case of a girl having a more complex motivation than one time P4P money.
She wants to be fucked. Paying her is just a social conviviality like buying her a drink.
Most of the people on TUSCL are really dense about women and their motivations.
SJG
If just one time money is her primary motivation, then what you get will be shit.
SJG
SJG
If you treat the girls like civilians, and never act like money buys them, give them money but never mention it until they do, then you can very often get mind blowing service.
I first learned this decades ago in AMPs. Other guys are lying on the table offering the girl money, while I am on my feet smooth talking her and DFKing her.
It does not always work that way, but when it does the FS which results is mind blowing, more of a Girl Friend Audition.
Same applies in strip clubs.
SJG
This is treating the girl like a prostitute.
I NEVER DO THAT!
SJG
Most of the time when guys pay women, it is paying for instant action, paying for her to go away and not get involved with him, paying for permission to treat her like a prostitute.
SJG
Believing that money is the primary motive for women opening up and giving mind blowing sex, is just such insanity.
SJG
I learned decades ago that this is not a good idea, and to recognize the ways that works.
For guys accustomed to dividing women into two categories, the Mother - Whore dynamic, what I am saying will be beyond that capacity of the human digestive system.
Rather like swallowing a box of:
http://www.falconworkshop.co.uk/Screw_Ey…
SJG
Then I also draw from what Strippers and AMP Girls tell me, and what people write on RubMaps.
For example we have talked about this. One guy said that if he wants to be doing OTC with a strip club girl, he will ask something like, "Do you do outside sessions?"
I flagged that right off as treating her like a prostitute, or potential prostitute. A lengthy heated exchange ensued.
I would NEVER do what that guy does. If I like a girl I come on to her in a 100% civilian manner, like I was just meeting her at a party.
Same for that chumps game of 'buying dances'. Guys start off asking what they can do and for how much money.
I would never do that. I am telling her about myself, politely asking about her, and trying to steer it to a full blown front room makeout session.
If she is refusing my advances, but still trying to sell dances, that does not bode well for her.
But if she is accepting my advances, then it is full speed ahead.
Money will be talked about, but not until the first mention of it comes from her.
Some AMP girls will initially refuse full service. So guys offer money. I never do that. I just keep talking to her, coming on to her, getting to know her. Eventually she mentions money. It is because I never try to offer her money that she treats me very differently from a standard customer, so much so that they are still talking about me when I come back in, say, 2 weeks later.
SJG
This kind of stuff has been talked about at great length in previous threads and posts.
Girl who started with, "*I don't go out with customers*" and then hearing me talk matter of factually about who I am and what I do, and then being almost apologetic for her brusqueness, "You don't understand, I get hit on by 50 guys a night." And then I come home late from work around 10pm the next night and find her voice on my old mechanical answering machine.
That women should ALWAYS BE TREATED HAS CIVILIANS has always paid off for me, and I never deviate from this. I think it is just common sense.
In my view, treating women as prostitutes is stupid, its done by people who have some really screwed up ideas about women.
SJG
You dumbass you haven’t interacted with a non inflatable woman in your whole life.
????
Treating a woman like a prostitute is not very bright.
Once they see that I am not doing that, they shift gears completely. I learned that early on, when I found her voice on my answering machine the next night. And I learned it in AMPs too.
And TwentyFive, expect the WebVan guy to be knocking at your door soon:
https://www.exmed.net/p-3050-boudreauxs-…
SJG