possible motive: dude must have really hated country music. there were some nice looking pieces of ass milling around.
i wonder if he had bought dances from the spearmint rhino and had gotten off from the dancer of his choice e he might have then said "nah, what the fuck am i thinking? shoot people? fuck that shit!!! changing my mind. going to start becoming a reg at this rhino joint and cum all the time like a motherfucker."
I just read an article about it and it seems it was carefully planned, ILLEGAL fully automatic weapons and at least one helper. He waited for an outdoor event, planned his sight line and field of fire. Unless this guy was military trained he likely had a great deal of outside help he at least had out of the USA contacts to get the machine gun and belted ammunition. It take a special permit to purchase/own fully automatic machine guns or any other fully automatic weapon and that permit is expensive and requires special screening. High power fully automatic weapons are very expensive. They are black market and not used by the criminal elements because of the expense. You just can't break into a gun shop or home and steal one.
Whether it comes out or not this guy had big time backers! Isis, Clinton foundation, Venezuela, N.Korea, Iraq, Soros, ANTFA, BLM or any of the other foreign terrorist groups working to destroy the USA and take it over for themselves
Not sure if the shooter bought automatics somehow, or bought rifles to turn into automatics. This is very tragic. It's also an eye-opener that this IS a terrorist attack and that that usual US mass-murderer by gun is not the Muslims many have grown to hate... This was your "average American" like the majority of mass murderers tend to be.
Also don't think it's fair that people are calling Jason Alden a coward for running back stage. Wyd else should he have done? I'm not just saying this cuz I like some of his music. I don't think he had a grasp of what was happening when his security probably gave him the "run for your life" signal. What else was he supposed to do?
Why? Because this is a country of over 300 million people. Bad things are bound to happen occasionally. It's sad but it's not something that should make you change your plans or alter your daily routine.
It's really sad. I too am left wondering why? He waited until the last song on the last day to open fire so maybe he liked country music. If he hated country, I think he would have opened fire on day 1 and maybe aimed for the band.
Apparently it's not safe to have outdoor concerts within sight of large tall unsecured areas. I can think of other horrible worse ways to do mass murder without guns but I'm not going to publicly post them.
I saw report that said the guns were .223 and .308 AR-15s modified to full auto. These are not considered "large caliber" and don't have enough muzzle velocity to be effective at long range.
This is probably why it was 50 killed, 500 injured, instead of the other way around.
Still, 550 victims - dude fired a LOT of bullets.
A single bullet could easily injure a few people as they were likely packed like sardines. Also, injured doesn't mean they were shot. 59 have died. 525 injured. 42 weapons found. Also the police said NO evidence that anyone else helped, at least on site.
Saw an isis expert that said if isis claimed responsibility they were likely involved. Doesn't seem likely to me, but obviously then guy and a number of screws loose!
After a tragedy like this, it takes 48 hours for the truth to start coming out about the motive. Before that, it’s all rumor, speculation, and projection.
A picture is starting to emerge of a high stakes gambler who moved frequently and was a loner. His father was a sociopath bank robber who was once on the FBI most wanted list.
I expect we’ll know more in 24 hours. My personal prediction is that he was a nut job at the end of his rope and he decided to go down in a way that made him (in)famous.
I have read he was a millionaire real estate investor and only occasional whale known by the casino. His brother said he was just a regular guy who he had helped move and had no guns. There were screenshots of his facebook page taken showing some of his causes before facebook censored his page, but i don't know for sure that they were not doctored or photoshopped.
The source of a lot of the “facts” about him is his brother, who lives in Florida and has said he had little contact with him in recent years. The live in girlfriend likely knows the whole story but she’ll stay silent to try to avoid being charged as an accomplice.
1) Anyone trying to politicize this horrible act should be excoriated, and lose all credibility. Similarly, anyone who can respond to this post only by insulting the poster, loses all credibility and should be placed on ignore by the TUSCL community.
As for the shooting itself, a lot of the initial rumors have been debunked. His girlfriend was in Tokyo at the time of the shooting, I haven't seen any official mention of fully automatic weapons- much less belt-fed, and the ISIS claims seems dubious at best. Most unfortunately, the son of a bitch killed himself before he could be taken into custody. I do hope the police can find some answers, a manifesto, emails, anything.
"Isis, Clinton foundation, Venezuela, N.Korea, Iraq, Soros, ANTFA, BLM or any of the other foreign terrorist groups working to destroy the USA and take it over for themselves"
just noe reading this thread as i am trying ignore any possible political threads. And yes it goes without saying its horrible what happened.
But wtf are you talking about tiredtraveler?! This was the act of one sick individual. Nobody else is to blame. Not guns. Not clinton. Not BLM. No! This was one individual that clearly needed help and nobody noticed. Such a shame. my heart goes out to all those effected.
bump fire stock
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Still tied up with political matters, trying to take down a clique of muggles and crypto-Republicans. Have to save extensive thread reading for later.
SJG
Tasmin Archer - Sleeping Satellite
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Kim Wilde
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Karnivool
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Massacre at Montsegur: A History of the Albigensian Crusade
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Unfortunately having a large crowd near unsecured areas in the perimeter seems to be asking for trouble nowadays. A couple weeks ago, I thought If I could have a super power, I would want it to be to instantly heal people and even raise them from the dead and even make their bodies physically much younger and pain free. That would be a marvelous super power. There is too much pain and suffering in our world.
There are a few questions bouncing around in my head that are not adding up but hopefully time will reveal the truth. ( key word being hopefully)
I've never stayed at this property but I have stayed recently at the Encore and Wynn.....if I had tried to lug 42 suitcases in by myself regardless if it was at a time or in a group someone would have noticed....you can't burp in Vegas without a video camera picking it up.
Secondly and this is the one that is really sticking in my mind.....this guy had an incredible accuracy to hit that many people from a distance. Regardless if we are talking automatic rifle into a crowd or not the hit rate is high for someone not known to be a expert with weapons.
Third in an open venue like this one there are typically a lot of exits....seems this one there wasn't. Oddly.
And there are a few others as well . No, I'm not a conspiracy nut but sometimes the math on events is just a little bit off from what we hear from our media and authorities.
The thing that I don't understand about this is how he was able to break the glass window - without causing some sort of commotion?
I remember reading that he had a hammer to break the glass window. If even a small piece of glass falls from 30 floors - it becomes a very dangerous projectile. Wouldn't hotel security become aware of something being done immediately after the window was broken?
I agree - the other questions posed here need to be answered as well. At this point there are many more questions than answers.
He definitely had training - as a small change in aim from that distance - and he would have missed everything.
I have herd a lot of talk by military and ex-military guys I know or work with, and they think no way a flabby 64 year old with no weapons training could pull this off alone, even trained with full auto it wouldn'y be easy. They also brought up how come there was no muzzle flashes, and they think it may have been belt fed auto to do that, apparantly modded guns with gattriggers or those spring loaded stocks are hard to keep from jamming or over heating and can't hold enough ammo for the sound to match what was fired. Also very convenient the guy who would be the killer/scapegoat is dead
This whole thing is fucked.
there were in excess of 20000 at that festival. i had driven by it twice friday/saturday and it was absolutely packed. and the sidewalk outside was a sea of humanity. many metro cops out there doing crowd control. i shoulda taken some pics. i was thinking of checking it out but parking was a big challenge.
the shooter's rifles were legal. bump stocks are legal. he had so many in his room... he would switch from one to another so it could cool down. ammo clips held 60 to 100 rounds.
a monster. basically low profile. obviously insane for whatever reason.
there were more than two windows busted out apparently. So many theories and we will never get the true story. We will get a story but doubtful the real story.
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No matter what the truth is the fact that someone can be evil enough to do this is horrifying. No laws or regulations stop people like that.
He probably busted the windows with a sledge hammer just before he started shooting than barricaded himself inside. If you sneak a couple of dozen guns into your room also sneaking in a sledge hammer should be no big deal.
Also I would imagine if you are firing a machine from your room, you won't need much of a barricade to keep most unarmed people from interrupting you and letting you go about your business.
I'll have to defer to others on how hard it is to hit that many people from that distance, but it seems to me that with the height advantage and crowding you don't have to be a superb marksman. Who knows though. Not my area of expertise.
I'm sure they did notice the broken glass right away, but still you have to determine what floor it is and get people up there, past everyone exiting.
9 minutes to do that doesn't seem unreasonable. They probably got some phone calls too: "It sounds like some psycho in the floor above/below me is shooting a machine gun or something!" So it probably won't take to long to get an approximation where he was, then just follow the loud sounds to get the exact room.
I don't see anything wrong with bringing up gun control issues after a tragedy like this. It might require a tragedy get some type of legislation through so that we have a society more like the UK, with far fewer gun deaths. Who cares if we're "politicizing" what happened? We're trying to save lives in the future, which honors the 50+ who died.
Nothing ever does happen, though. Gun lobby owns Congress. Few months from now, it will all be forgotten.
The logical people will say all tall shooting points around large crowds need to be secured before allowing a large crowd. The gun control people will likely be ignored like normal. The religious folks I read today will argue people need more religion.
I read the guy was a loner, a millionaire bored with life and suicidal with little to no religious beliefs. I read there are millions of loners but not all loners are mass murderers. Too bad we can't convince people there is an afterlife and that it will be terrible for murderers and really terrible for mass murderers. Some people have to learn the hard way. I have little doubt these mass murderers are suffering great pain in hell but that does nothing to ease the suffering they left behind among the living.
Religion is good in preventing mass murder and suicide. Without it, we only have laws which get broken all the time. People are much less likely to break strong religious beliefs that they believe strongly in. Atheists may think poorly of religion but I believe it really does help keep a peaceful society. Without religion, everyone else's pain and suffering and even their bodies are nothing but objects unless you know and care for someone. I will pray that the suffering of survivors is healed.
One of the best things I heard was that to forgive is golden or something like that. I didn't say forget. The reason I heard was that all that anger towards someone bottled up inside does nothing towards those you hate. It hurts yourself and your own body. To forgive someone allows you to release all that pent up anger hurting your own body. To actually hurt someone else is revenge and makes you be like the person you hate. If they are going to hell, some people choose to go with them. It's hard to do right. It's easy to go to hell.
Gun control by itself if implemented would likely lead to using explosives, poison gas, overhead drones and projectiles shot into crowds from unsecured areas because evil people don't need guns to do mass murder or mayhem. Just driving a big truck through a crowd of 20,000 probably would have killed more if the area wasn't secured against large vehicles. I'm not trying to give away ideas, just saying if guns aren't used,other methods can hurt more people if evil people are determined. I personally wouldn't mind making it harder for mass murderers to get guns especially if they are mentally disturbed or think it's ok to shoot at crowds. I don't know how we could identify that psychology.
I think I know how terrorists could take out large planes but they would have to be suicidal and enough of them. Another method I hope terrorists never get access to.
I even thought of a way to get power to the people of Puerto Rico quickly but it would require building tesla towers to broadcast wireless power and then homes would need receivers to pick up and convert the power. I'm not sure how they would meter or charge for the power unless the government controlled the receivers and installed meters. It would save billions in not bothering with all the utility pole and power line installations etc. plus it could restore power quickly. Possibly even in the continental US if we developed spare towers and lots of receivers for everyone to quickly restore power in the event of a catastrophic power loss, potentially saving the lives of 90% of the US. I propose the US government develop lots of backup spare tesla towers and millions of spare building receivers to restore power in the event of a national emergency.
I saw on ancient aliens Tesla was building a tesla tower to transmit free power to the people but I think I heard Rockefeller was funding Teslas project and when he found out what tesla was really trying to do, he put an end to it quickly. It would have been wireless power. The power transmitted would gave cost money to transmit or generate but nothing on the receiving end if you had the right way to receive and use it. Thus my idea to quickly restore temporary power with tesla towers and home receivers. No utility lines and billions of dollars spent restoring the entire electrical infrastructure. However I'm not sure if tesla towers can transmit enough power for today's heavy power use. No one is talking about alternatives either. tesla the company might advertise solar shingles etc for power and backup power units for homes but all that is expensive. There might not be any cheap alternative.
Tesla towers might be able to power home computers and maybe refrigerators and get a society functioning again if the parts had been made already so that in an emergency, people get power.
I'm aware before I even ask that this may be a silly question, but with regard to the shattered window, is there a chance that he perhaps shattered it shattered it via the first gunfire???
Some people are saying there were multiple shooters. FBI was investigating this before it got shut down by orders from FBI headquarters. I've read about several people claiming they saw multiple shooters. Makes me wonder but I haven't seen video proof. I don't think too many people were standing around taking panoramic videos though.
I also read a woman claimed an hour before the shooting, you are all going to die, they are all around you. I read she and her boyfriend were escorted off the grounds and had no ties to the shooting. Makes me wonder what she saw.
vm,
The lack of answers is frightening. Difficult, if not impossible to defend against the unknown. Pre-9/11, who would have thought of box cutters? I used to have them around all the time. 3 or 4 in my car. Almost always one in my pocket. Came in handy to cut open boxes at my dad's store!
I've always feared we'd start having attacks where their only motivation was to take out as many as possible before going down themselves. I think this could be one of those. The sad reality is that if someone really wants to kill people (I'm not talking about gun control) they'll find a way to do it. This guy had money and intelligence which just made it easier.
If you look at other mass shootings there was usually a pretty clear motive or target often mixed with some serious mental health issues.
He clearly didn't just snap one morning, it doesn't seem like he was targeting anyone specific.
My concern is this guy just decided he wanted to go out with a bang
Unfortunately there are politicians with the motive of never letting a crisis go to waste to achieve an agenda of theirs. Conspiracy theories arise because of all the agendas out there. One agenda some say by the global elites is to take away guns from Americans. The easy way to do that was via the Supreme Court. That was taken away with Trump winning and appointing conservative judges for at least 4 years. The other way is to pin the blame on lone gunmen with lots of mass shootings, using fire arms in all cases because just killing people using other means won't help with gun control. Then only criminals will have guns like the left wants it. Bump stock will likely get banned. Hotels and high rise structures near large crowds will likely have more security checking baggage and rooms. If the conspiracy is real, then more mass shootings with guns will likely happen but get blamed on loose gun control. I agree we would all be safer if criminals did not have guns but we would all be safer if no one ever shot anyone else and everyone obeyed the law.
I could go on and say that we would all be safer if no one, not even the police had a gun. They shoot first out of fear and claim it was self defense. In that case, I think we have a fear issue among police forces. If they weren't so afraid, I dont think they would be shooting so quickly. In this mass shooting, it was evil and hatred at society at large in my opinion. If someone has to have a motive to feel better about it. He wanted to further the pain among the public by not leaving a clear motive and wanted to hurt as many as he could. Pure evil. He liked his guns and wanted to use them. He could have used other more destructive methods but enjoyed his guns. There's a motive. Evil enjoys causing pain to others. Evil feels pleasure in causing pain. Some people do not understand evil and deny it exists.
Jester,
"He clearly didn't just snap one morning, it doesn't seem like he was targeting anyone specific."
Pretty much exactly what the authorities are saying. That's scary, bt I do think there is more involved. I was kidding when I first heard isis had claimed it. But there was no evidence they did. I told my wife, perhaps they just targeted him because they knew somehow we was a "nobody and clean". They kidnap him, do every thing else themselves, kill him, and walk out the door before the police arrive. As crazy as any other "theory"!
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