Who could it be?....What could it be?

1. We can't answer these questions. We're not there. You have to ask your ATF these questions.

2. Why do you keep seeing your "ATF" when all she seems to do is inject confusion and stress into your life?

Most guys use the term ATF to refer to a dancer that does the exact opposite of what your dancer is doing to you.

Because I actually have feelings for her.....and I asked her but she didnt want to tell me....

And it seems like she has feelings for me as well but her friends advise her "against getting involved" with a client....

And I can't hold it back anymore next time I'm going to tell her how I feel about her.....but the potential outcome worries me......

Right. You're a RIL.

Regardless, how are a bunch of anonymous guys on a message board supposed to know who "Andrew" is?

My story is very "Pretty Womanesqe"......She was all business at first. I stood out from other guys because I respected her, her boundries, treated her like a lady, have always been there for her, and never annoyed/harrased her like other guys. I've played it James Bond Cool......She seems to have fallen for me just like in the movie.....I really want to tell her how I feel but I'm afraid that it might scare her away....

Based on the turn of events...I got the feeling that Andrew is either an obssesive customer or her pimp.....Was wondering if you guys thought the same!!!....

This shit is bugging me so much that I can't even sleep......I know her past......thug boyfriends, a stint as a porn star, escort, stripper, worked at a massage parlor, criminal record........At this point can anyone say it's lust?.....I love her and as corny as it may be sound I do want to "rescue her"......

This is gonna be worse than a train wreck, I'm thinking airplane crash no survivors over midtown Manhattan, several buildings pancaked as the jumbo jet falls out of the sky.

This is a personal opinion. Take it as such.

You're making huge, mushroom-cloud-inducing mistakes, and you should cut bait and run.

That said, you seem determined charge forward into disaster. So, I hope that you make it to the other side with some lessons learned.

Good luck.

Ok, my last OTC date is no longer the most confusing, disappointing OTC date ever.

I came to the conclusion that she doesn't know how to deal with a non-abusive guy, can't learn to appreciate a non-abusive guy, can't add non-abusive to the list of traits she's attracted to, so despite how much I'm attracted to her I'm putting distance between us and letting go.

I advise the same for you.

I'm struggling with what the question is but....to me, it reads like an elaborate, long con, hustle. Hold on to your wallet.

^ I kinda agree. Strippers know how to talk so that someone won't hear them, and how to put on a good facade. I suspect that they wanted you to hear. You atf is a nice girl, so I think friend came along to help w the hustle. I hope I'm wrong. Please don't give her a bunch of money, and I'm honestly a bit worried ab your safety.

He doesn't have much money. He couldn't cover a drink tab last time. If they're running a long con on him, they are dumber than he is broke.

BJ99.....I basically had my ear up against the door.....My ATF seemed genuinely upset something....

Oh okay. That's a big difference than if she was saying it loud enough for you hear easily. You still need to be on your guard. Ppl in bad situations can bring trouble to anyone in their life. I don't know if I'd ask or not. I don't think it was about you. You've seen your atf since the friend fiasco and you said it went well.

BJ99.....It has but the friend is a huge a cockblock and is always telling her no to get "too close to me" and to treat me like a "customer". I still wonder who this Andrew individual is....His name was mentioned in an IG and that post was deleted. He seems to be tormenting her but who is he?....

Like I previously said this guy even called her during one of our dates while her and I were busy......

And she took the call?

NaturalSelection.....Nope just stared at her phone

I'd ask her what hers friends issue is w you. If she asks why you ask that, tell her you get a vibe she doesn't like you. She might explain stuff then. I wouldn't ask ab Andrew yet.

Wait, was the OTC "date" just dinner at a cheap place, and then going to a hotel to only listen to her and her friend through the bathroom door and then it was over?

It is her husband, baby daddy or the sitter. Hell, it could have been her dad watching her baby. Her friend probably knows she gets attached easily and doesn't want to see her get hurt. She probably has some bad feelings about you since the two of you didn't seem to hit it off. Should have asked her if she needed to get that. Then right in the middle of the call go down on her.

Personally, if you can't talk honest and open with her then it will never be. Test her true love. Tell her you only make 30K a year and see if she makes a run for it.

Bj99...Her friend is holding grudge because of happened last time.....That goes without saying....

RossVa....Nope....There was more but all of this drama killed the mood and it go worst....My ATF was genuinely looking for fun and because of all this nonsense going on I got a hard off and was unable to deliver......That upset her too!....She was looking forward to some fun....

No one here will be able to properly answer your questions about Andrew. You need to come to your senses! You are asking for advice about a specific situation (and a specific person) - and none of us know the people involved.

You need to think about what your situation, and you need to calm down, take a walk or something, and then attempt to view this from an external perspective. You appear to be acting emotionally - and that's clouding your judgement.

Keep in mind the facts (that you already know): She has a kid with another guy. (The other guy could be named Andrew). Those ties can be powerful.

She has wide emotional swings. She was happy at the start of your date - and she was a mess by the end. That spells drama and it should be a red flag.

She has a friend who either meddles in her shit - or who is a neutralizing force - and either way she upsets her emotional state.

Don't - I repeat don't tell her you have feelings for her! Don't think Pretty Woman thoughts! If you have these thoughts - take another walk outdoors - breathe deeply - enjoy the feeling as the fresh air fills your lungs - and keep walking! Let your head clear - allow your emotions to calm - and remember that you've created an emotional attachment to someone who views your dates as business transactions (it's not love!)

MrBater......She's not married, baby daddy has a different name and they don't talk (in fact they can't stand each other and that's been confirmed), dad has different name and doubt dad grabs her "cooch and refuses to let go" as was stated by them.....Get hurt how?....Everyone tells me that I treat this girl in a way that no other guy will ever treat her (I probably treat her better than a GF maybe even better than a wife)......

It sounds like her friend has more issues w you, if you are who she was talking ab, than just the threesome thing. You've seen your atf since then. Plus, sometimes it's best not to make assumptions, even when you think the answer is obvious. It's will touch on the subject in a way that is your place to ask. She might explain everything without you having to ask ab Andrew, or admit that you heard them taking.

Ha e you banged this chick yet? I’m confused. Recap me...

1. You went to dinner with ATF.

2. ATFs girlfriend shows up.

3. All 3 of you travel to hotel, is this a hotel you paid for?

4. ATF and ATFs buddy go into hotel bathroom and ATF cries for 30 minutes while your eavesdropping.

Everyone leaves? Did you bang one or both of them?

Were you supposed to bang the ATF by the ATFs girlfriend ruined it?

I’m so confused!

Negative about the baby daddy....Baby daddy has a different name and again they can't stand each other I know this for a fact.....

Bj99....Yeah her friend is a total btch!!......I'm hoping but I don't think she will....

Shailynn We have been spent together 14+ times at least

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes / Yes
4. Yes We tried to have fun but the drama killed the mood and my little friend was as limp as a noodle....ATF's friend ruined everything......

So regardless of what was said in the verbal drama this 2nd girl screwed up your date again!!!! Tell your ATF exactly that and dont make that mistake ever again. If she shows up then buck up and say this is not gonna work. This bitch is fucking up her and your mojo.

You gotta draw the line to cut this third party out and that means YOU.

This is true regardless of a business transaction or personal relationship. Hell...maybe more in a business transaction since you are a completely dissatisfied customer.

Cut bait my friend seriously cut bait

You know what you should run. Everyone is telling you to run. You won't. Like many of us, you are a PL looking for permission to take the wrong path.

BOOOM that's the last sound you will hear as your airplane falls from the sky. Hey guys our OP ain't gonna listen and I really don't care to watch a plane creas.

You said it perfectly K. He won't take the recommended path. He appears to be fully in a RIL world - and sadly nothing good can come of it.

Probably would be a good idea to bang the friend several times, so then you can tell your ATF, baby, she's just jealous. If only you had given it up the first time around with her, maybe they would be fighting between themselves over who got the semen instead of talking in the bathroom about some random other guy who did that but also beats the fuck out of your ATF.

@ppwh - I think the atf and her friend both know he's basically in love with the atf. They know how to manipulate him - and this won't end well.

Well, obviously. If a guy who all involved know how he feels is saying stuff like: MAYBE IF I JUST TELL HER HOW I FEEL!!!! things are clearly going terribly wrong.

Cashman1234......Yes unfortunately that has now become very apparent....The friend said last night "he wants to go with you......since he loves you"......In a snide tone.....My ATF was like "he doesn't love me"....(Probably in attempt to get a reaction)......

@SebastianCobb, so why are you burning to throw yourself at her feet and loudly proclaim that you're the biggest pussy that she knows instead of challenging her to earn a spot with someone who is less of a loser than the other guys she knows?

It seems like every week some guy posts the same type of question. I think they know the answer. The right thing to do, but they just want somebody to try to talk them out of it.

@SebastianCobb since they both know how you feel - and since they are both strippers (and otc girls) - they both know that they can manipulate you (as they know your feelings).

In many cases the girl doesn't know (for sure) that a pl has such stong feelings.

You had an otc date - and you didn't even get to f--k your atf. She allowed her friend to cock block you because she knew you are so in love with her that you wouldn't do anything. There's no need for you to tell her how you feel - as she already knows you are totally into her.

Cashman1234......I didn't get to f--k her because of technically difficulties not because she wasn't willing.....In fact she wanted it!!....She was craving it which makes me feel worst because I couldn't deliver!.......I kept getting soft every time I tried inserting the pencil into the sharpener. My ATF got really annoyed and upset about this because she was looking forward to it!.......I don't think my ATF knows for sure how much I care about her and that's why she's so hot and cold because she's confused......Maybe it also frustrates her maybe she wants to hear me tell her?.....

Did you pay her for any part of this date?

If the answer is Yes - then you are a customer - not a boyfriend.

Once you are a customer - that's what you will remain.

Furthermore my ATF describes herself as a "bad bitch", an alpha "bitch", she's got a really tough exterior (think Michelle Rodriguez). She's a bad girl but it's all in the exterior. It's a just big front. I've always known it (and it was confirmed yesterday when she broke down) that deep down inside she's very fragile and very insecure. The reason why she became upset when I couldn't "deliver" was because that makes her very insecure. In her mind I couldn't it get it going because of her. Because there is something wrong with which couldn't be far from the truth. She's the most beautiful girl I've ever met and the reason why my friend who lives south of the equator kept going into a coma was because of external issues not related to her (drama killed the mood coupled with alcohol consumption). Now she feels as though she's not pretty enough and as though she can't turn a man on but that couldn't be farther from the truth. Either way she manifested her insecurities through anger yesterday. Now I feel as though she won't want to talk to be anymore because of this. Because not only can I not provide her with physical fulfillment but I cannot boost her ego either....

cashman1234......There's a 1 in 10 chance that there might be exceptions. Not to toot my horn but I'm probably the best that's ever come across her (at least since a very long time ago). Think about it, most of the guys that she comes in contact with are shitbags.

I'm confused: you sound like you're 12 . . . but your peen sounds like he's 102 :)

Just raggin' on ya, man! Though I've never been cock-blocked on an OTC date by another chick, I've certainly been in the position of wondering whether I should have told my ATF how I felt about her. I never did, really. (However, on our first date, overnight in a hotel room, I did tell her that I loved her -- and she said it back! We both laughed it off in the morning, except I wasn't really laughing.)

My short answer to your question is: don't tell . . . and run!

Dear captain of the drama club, you're probably better off telling her that her friend was such a buzzkill that you couldn't even get it up when she was around, and that everything goes wrong in her presence. It's not like it's the first time or that it should come as a surprise. You might offer her to fuck her friend several times separately to smooth things over in case she centers her life on her friend's drama. It could be that her friend is actually the better catch and was just acting out because the guy she wanted started out with her loser friend.

Put your emotional diatribes aside and start thinking logically.

Did you pay her to go on the otc date? If you did - think about that.

Don't worry about her ego. You paid her to go out with you - she's a fucking pro - and she couldn't get you off! Did she give you the money back? No, she kept it. Think about that -

You know @Cobb you are making a mistake if you think that all of us here are "shitbags" plenty of guys go to strip clubs all over the world and your stupid condescending childish attitude is going to be what does you in. Go for IDGAF most here have given you strong advice but I see from your responses that you think a bit highly of yourself. Have at it you'll get your head handed to you that's the only way you'll learn anything.

@ TwentyFive.....When did I mention you guys?....Or a any normal SC patron?.....I stated "Most of the guys that SHE comes in contact with"....."She" being the keyword.....Ive seen them and heard about them! Not once was this a generalization of a normal SC goer!

Well that's the way you worded it I'm sure that your lady friend loves the drama, she probably comes in contact with plenty of nice guys as well but she has issues that you ain't gonna fix.

dude....You are worried she wont take your $$ and have (or attempted) sex with you again because of your performance?? What is this, high school prom night in the back of the car ?!?!

You got your head all twisted up on this girl and until you go on an unpaid date with her this is just a paid session. She may be dissapointed but she will still always take your $$ again and again like cashman says...and if she likes you the performance issue would also be forgiven.

Tell her you just want to meet her for lunch sometime and hang out (just her) See how she reacts. Until there is no $$ involved you cant say she has more than just business feelings. Yknow she can still have positive feelings for her favorite pls who treat her right?!?! Dont get that confused with civie love until she treats you like a civie.

I have a few questions - how old are you? Are you married? Are you divorced? If so - how recently?

Those answers will tell me a lot about your motivations and emotions.

These shitbags that your atf deals with - are they other guys who pay her for otc dates? If they are - remember - she's getting paid to get f--ked by other guys -

Shadow He doesnt want anyone to talk him out if it. He wants permission to make the worst mistake if his life. If even one of us gives him a half assed excuse justifying what he wants he will go for it

Uprightcitizen.....Would dancer take a pic with a favorite PL?...I thought the same rule that applies to hookups applied to them....no pictures.

Cashman Early 30s, single, met her during a bad breakup.

One of them was her ex....They didnt meet on the job. I believe this Andrew Character might date her OTC...But again don't know who he is...

K is right! He's looking for a tiny sliver of validation - so he has a reason to make a huge mistake.

The best advice I can offer is to wait a few weeks before seeing her again. Don't text her. Clear your head - and relax without her. Then see how you feel.

If you still want to see her - invite her to a civilian dinner date. Just the two of you. Don't pay her - and act like she's a civilian girl.

Well if you dont listen to advice at least keep posting updates on your drama. Inquiring minds want to know....

Yes of course she could take pics together with you. Damn I have plenty want to take a pic and I said no way. ...and some rare cases I did allow, perhaps regretably for a couple.

You have probably more of a reason not to be in a pic with her than her with you.

Have the balls to simply discuss this stuff with her. Not to the point of saying your ear was on the door - but man up and explain why you could not perform and that you don't need the 3rd wheel around. If she will not see you alone then you have your answer, insofar as your real priority in her life.

He's good ab following advice. He has gotten out of some nasty/confusing situations w our help lol.

Bj99 Is there a better place for sound relationship advice than a strip club site? Dr Phil can't match the wisdom of this discussion forum! LOL!

Bj99...Yes I have many thanx!

Uprightcitizen why did she tell her friend "take a picture of me and my baby"....?....Why the sudden affection. That's what Im trying to figure because she wasn't like this before...

Affection shown ≠ affection felt. But you're desperate to take every sliver of perceived hope and make it into indisputable evidence.

Do this. Remove money from the equation and see how long her affection lasts.

"Sigh"...BJ can you take this one. You are nicer than me (....and in the trade of making us feel like there is a chance)

Would dancer take a pic with a favorite PL?

Sure, so she could show it to other dancers to compare notes, or to the guys she is going to have rob you. In fact, you don't even have to be a favorite for that.

The only time a dancer has ever taken a selfie with me, she was the worst I have encountered to be associated with. I was among the fortunate and cut bait when things started looking sketchy. It was a great photo, though. She was beautiful and just my type, so we looked really good in it.

@Sabestian ... Are you interested in her as a side piece aka as a plaything? Or are you interested in her as potentially being @Mrs. Cobb aka you serious date and court this chick?

Your answer will determine how I answer.

Eww. Marry a former porn actress? And your friends and family search for the recordings? :-p

Dominic77.....Serious dating.....She means a lot to me....

Lurker_X.......Her career was short lived. IDGAF what ppl would think about her because deep down inside she has a good heart. She's beautiful inside and out.

@SebastianCobb, I think the Bloodhound Gang really gets your predicament and that you should consider studying The Ballad of Chasey Lain.

youtube.com

It's far fetched, but I still think there's a half a chance that the OP is a Fisherman alias.

I know that this is unlikely. And, at least partially motivated by my wanting to believe that this is trolling and not a real guy sticking his arm in a wood chipper while screaming "I'm pretty sure this will feel better once I get my shoulder in there!"

"deep down she has a good heart" You should be worried if it is deep down. What is that good heart buried under?

I can't believe no one has asked for her porn name or the name of a movie she starred in

Ishmael....not trolling at all

K....A front?.....Hardened tough chick....but a real tender sweet soul underneath...

K....I can't believe it either...

This is your chance to brag

K.....bahahaha nope....Im not outing myself or anyone else!!!

You need to put your hopes that she might like you on the back burner and focus on the concern in your post, first.

Omg ppwh, that's a contendor for the real strip club anthem. Lol.

Bj99....Do you think call her tomorrow to set up another OTC would be a bad idea?....I want this next to OTC to be fun n drama free...

drama free? That ship has sailed. You caught feelings for her.

Give it at least a week or so. Maybe this drama will blow over, or you might just get more of the same.

Agree that two days is too soon. IMO, you're best off making like no drama ever happened and act like it's normal the next time you see her. If anyone needs to join her drama circle and participate in two minutes hate about some guy she keeps going back to, that is all her best girlfriends. Unless you want to suck that guy's dick, participating in that is best avoided.

Q. How does a stripper get to a man's heart? A. She stabs up under the rib cage.