[OT] This is the video the explains why, and how, Blockchain technology might re
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I skimmed through the video and I think I understand the gist: blockchain provides for single-copy, unhackable, data records, useful for financial contracts and currency.
Just curious: suppose our Federal Reserve created their own crypto-currency independent of bicoin, with some technical facility that would allow for monetary policy (ie, the Fed can control the supply of Fed-coins). Would such a Fed-crypto-currency capture everyone's attention? Or is the real excitement really political -- about doing away with government control of the money supply?
^^^ Probably would capture a lot of people's attention, if for only a brief moment. I think the heart of your question is related to Keynesian vs Austrian economics.
I actually think Fed created crypto currency is the greatest threat to Bitcoin. Maybe even possible of destroying it for all but black market activities. If the Fed is too slow, however, Bitcoin may be unstoppable. Another way to put it: the only way to destroy it is to embrace it.
My only feeling is that Bitcoin shows up at a particularly good time, however. No way a government this divided and under Trump's inept leadership is going to be to take that kind of action. Looking to me like a good chance the action only comes when it's too late.
@Random the hypothetical currency you are thinking of could either be traceable to ensure taxation, or include automatic taxation of all transaction: above ground or otherwise. Or a % of newly created coins go to the US treasury as another form of taxation.
I guess the final point to note is that depending on the anonymity properties of such a Fed block chain, it could actually be a great privacy destroyer. But would that sell? So far people have not put much of a fight for privacy during the rise of the NSA, Google, Facebook and other privacy destroyers. Bitcoin is the only serious "fighting back" so far. Again, we would have to see how many people care.
^^^ Interesting post.
As far as privacy, I would certainly care. I can imagine my wife's divorce lawyer getting hold of my bitcoin records and showing the judge every instance of buying a hotel room on Priceline :(
Guessing of course, but I think some of these smart economists like Shiller and Krugman, with a liberal bent, admire the technology but object to the idea of a currency not under government control. Almost unpatriotic.
I didn't realize that the blockchain technology has so many other applications outside of electronic currencies.
Just from this mornings news CEO Jamie Dimon of Chase calls bitcoin a scam Jamie Dimon calls bitcoin a 'fraud' money.cnn.com
Lol!
@Futuretrackstar, FTW!
Jamie "The Real Fraud" Dimon has been talking smack about Bitcoin for years. No way this is news to the market. @Meat72 asked about buying the dip. I will be starting today.
I wonder if WFC will come out now and say they agree with Jamie?
Don't have an opinion I'm taking a wait and see approach.
Wait and see? What? You've said you see no basis to value for Bitcoin. So what are you waiting and seeing on?
Just watching the action I already am in great shape I'd rather just keep pace with inflation and reduce my exposure to risk. All of my bills are paid and I have more than enough to do everything I'd like into the foreseeable future.
^^^Plus my kids education is paid for them and my family is provided for
25, great planning takes away the cerebral actions of money! No more thinking, just doing. In my line of work every body wants to be cerebral about the markets, and of course that is the biggest downfall of majority of investors.
As far as Jamie Dimon, so you think he has a little bit of an agenda against bitcoin? Lol... That's one big threat to the banking industry, because it would eliminate revenue streams for the industry. If we do embrace it, imagine all the efficient ways to make transactions increasing our productivity. Dimon's main concern verbalized was the policing and law enforcement efforts to controlling not only crypto-currency actions, but the treat on security/hackers in general.
My thoughts are it maybe too early/late in the game depending on when you place your bets on bitcoin. Volatility swings will make you feel like a genius to a dumby in short periods of time. Geopolitics and competition will sway me from sipping my toes into this crypto field any time soon, but the ideas are on my radar. Dougster, best you wait a month or two to buy any dips. Just my opinion.
My last though for now on this topic, would anyone think a smart investment would be into digital security companies?
I have a highly volatile company in TCCO, which hasn't made any money the last 3 years. It has gone from $2 to $8 several times since I've owned it. Great for trading, but maybe now I can see it for a long term play, much like bitcoin except I think it is less speculative than a crypto currency.
^^^No argument from me on your points @Meat I'm sure Dimon has an agenda but I am not sold on crypto and that's ok.
@Meat72: I'm already in (up 80%). And thanks for the advice, but I think I'm qualified to make my own financial decisions. Lol!
So 25 is taking "a wait and see" approach to "wait and seeing". Okay, got it!
I've missed a bunch of the latest hot things over many years it's ok I caught a few good ones too. My gains to this point far outweigh my losses, mock all you like I'm still in good shape.
It's just that when someone says they are going to "wait and see" it sounds like they are waiting to get in at a lower price, unless they think it's in total free fall. Just doesn't sound like something someone says when they are just planning on watching forever because they are convinced there is no intrinsic value.
As for volatility swings, they are pretty easy to withstand if you get in at a low enough price. I was about 110% a week ago, now it's only 80%, so yeah, a bit of a drop in week. Not for a second have I thought about selling a single coin though. Just moved some money in so I could buy more.
Now I guess if someone got in at the top: around $4970 if it was Bitcoin say, then, yeah, I could see a 25% right away scaring some.
Bottom line: yeah, you either need to get in low, have balls of steel and watch the ticker from day to day, or just buy, lock in a box, and not even watch the ticker.
^^^To your point I'm just not convinced, I wish you well in your endeavors but this doesn't appear to be right for me, that could change, but it's not for me now.
To support what you're stating 25, you don't need to venture into it, so why try? It's only a game for traders. Some will capitalize and others will get in at the wrong time.
Going to have to disagree with @Meat72 again. I say it's more a game for those who are able to see its value, understand that, b/c of the low market caps there will be volatility but are willing to hold through it, since they understand the long term potential. The short hand for this in the cryptocurrency community is #HODL. People have seen all this volatility and worse before and if they are #HODL'ers they know what to do: Don't panic, just hold and price will bounce back.
^^^ The same can be said about Taser stock. Those who saw the value in it capitalized on it when they got in at the right time. I've also seen many guys lose their houses because they mortgaged their homes on the stock before it crashed due to a lawsuit. Very few people need to speculate on Taser and Bitcoin, and Taser would be a much safer trade.
It's good if you're in a position to speculate on bitcoin, definitely a small % of less than 5% (or less)of your holdings. You never want to get caught on the wrong side of a cycle on this. Taser swings are wild, too and just like bitcoin it will bust too many people who don't know what they're doing.
I would wait to dip my toes into bitcoin after the hype and hysteria subsides. I think it's just a fun game to play, but not much of an investment play. I equate it to venture capitalists. They are looking to find that one big hit out of 20 failures, but that one big hit pays off for all of the previous misses. Bitcoin is playing with similar odds at this point in time. One corrupt drug dealer, terrorist could force the shutdown of the crypto currency. The idea sounds great, but there's just too many wrinkles to iron out. Good luck traders! Get out fast after you've made your money.
More carnage than the Battle of Canae this morning.
Someone is circulating a rumor that China is going to ban BTC outright and introduce a national crypto-currency back by either silver (!) or the Yuan.
Anybody dare to catch a falling knife?
Bought a little bit on Tuesday. Next week will probably add more.
Can you buy a partial coin? Meaning not the whole one at $3500, but 50% of a coin for $1750. I'm too emotional when it comes to investing on speculation, so I'm not sure how much i would be willing to throw in, since I still have various future obligations to fund.
^^^you can buy as little as 100 dollars worth but you need to set up an account and a BTC wallet to recieve you credit.
You're thinking of buying?
Sure you can buy a partial coin. It has 8 decimal places, so 10^-8 or one one-hundred millionth (aka one Satoshi) is the theoretical minimum. Most exchanges don't have that many decimal place, but in practice. Sure, you can buy very small amounts.
I'm amused how ever about how some the biggest trash talkers here are indicating they will get in if the price gets a bit lower.
^^^ I'm sure you can put me into the category of trash talking bitcoin, especially after the past year's performance. I like the concept, just like the concept of legalizing marijuana. On the other side, I won't invest in marijuana stocks either due to the tremendous risk involved with government and its regulation and legislation on the drug. Sovereign rights take a long time to regain after being stripped away.
We could also start a TUSCL bartering system, ala SJG style and his organization, where our own currency would be based on individual merits. It would only be as useful as its members. Quite the risk that would be. Can you imagine what types of services and goods could be rendered? It would be efficient and we could pay for all the pussy we wanted, as long as we took care of our own. In theory this is a great idea, but putting it into play is quite a different scenario. Bitcoin is idealistically worth pursuing, over time, but who's willing to for City Hall with your wallet? Not me, at least not at this rate.
I congratulate those who ventured out and profited. I've made profits elsewhere with much less risk.
No worries I've taken risk into account. One of the reason I've invested primarily in coins which are privacy centric: that way in the worst case they still have black market value. I think I've done my homework on the coins, the people and concepts.
Right now there are plenty of indicators that it's only small money selling. Even medium money is staying put and large of course, ain't going nowhere.
TCCO anybody? Seems logical to me.
Things seem to have calmed down. I'll go out on a limb and say last night was the bottom. I didn't sell through any of it. My read is that China and Russia see BTC as a friend vs the USD. At least for the next few years. Probably lots of other countries in that boat.
I didn't sell anything through it all. Just added a bit to my position on Tuesday. May add again next week depending where prices are, but I think the best days were a couple of hours ago.
Sorry meant "best deals" were a couple of hours ago... It's fun to read how low some of the prints got while I was sleeping.
Lol!
I think the Bitcoin roller coaster is a harder ride to stomach than the Rockin' Rollercoaster. Going back up!?
According to Bloomberg, the shutdown of exchanges in China is only temporary while they get regulations in place. It's not a move against Bitcoin in general. Exchanges may re-open in January of next year.
Again, I never bought the idea of a complete crackdown which is why I held. China, IMO, is actually investing in getting their people into Bitcoin as a competitor to the USD. It's a smart strategic play, IMO.
Another reason why the rumors never made sense to me was that China controls a huge percentage of the mining power. It's hard to see their government as being foolish enough to just through that all away.
Panic was heavy in China yesterday though, onshore Bitcoin was trading by a huge % lower than offshore. People who are able to buy inside the country and short outside of it, must have made a huge no risk profit on that one.
Strategist Tom Lee states "despite wild swings, 600% upswing in bitcoin over the next 5 years!"
Very few people do I respect as analyst besides Tom Lee. He is right more than wrong, so I'm beginning to change my thoughts. Doesn't mean I'm buying, but at least it's interesting g to note Tom Lee's thoughts.
I find it obvious the Jamie Dimon comments as pro bank, anti-crypto currency. It goes against everything his business makes money on. Thanks for letting me know it's possible to buy partial coins. I'm not much of a risk taker.
@Meat72, I am risk averse as well, that's why my Bitcoin holdings is a little less than 4% of my portfolio. I just like talking about it because I think it's absolutely brilliant technology... and nobody knows the inventor to boot! It's mysterious in two ways--technically and originally!
@Futuretrackstar: Actually the NSA was able to determine who Satoshi is. There was an article about it on Slashdot. Apparently it's something like if you look at the 100? 500? words most commonly used by a person across a big enough sample of their writings, it provides a pretty unique signature. Maybe we could use it on TUSCL to play that link the aliases back to Juice game?
@Meat72: One of the few guests on CNBC I always look forward too. Him, David Tepper, and Carter Braxton Worth. The others are much more hit and miss, or some are negative correlation indicators.
I guess I'm more aggressive on Bitcoin than most. Over 50% of my non-retirement money is now in crypto-currencies. I'm think of taking on an even bigger stake by going to work for one of the crypto-currency projects.
It's funny because although the net swing this time (assuming it's over) was more than 40% I never thought of selling. Like I say, have a good entry point from late spring helped, along with getting used to it. Not to mention grade A analytical powers. Lol!
Pretty ridiculous that grown men have nothing better to do with their time than trying to make money be investing in currency schemes.
SJG
But, SJG I'm going to contribute to the development of one the coins and we are going to get an Athenian Democracy because of it. How can that not be good?
^^^^^^^ Your version of Athenian Democracy will be a two tier society. So it is bogus.
You want to finanicalize everyone's labors, financialize everyone's hopes and dreams, and financialize the tallow extracted from our bodies for making candle wax.
SJG
Incorrect, everyone will get to vote.
Some of the people I'm talking with want it to be all rules based, or rules based as much as possible, but that viewpoint is not winning and not going to win.
Everyone gets to vote already, and you see that that alone gives us nothing at all like democracy. There has to be revolutionary consciousness, and your financialization works in direct opposition to this. Financialization is what has given us the insane financial situation we are now living in.
SJG
Wrong: right now people vote for representatives who take it from there. In this project I am thinking of joining people would vote directly on each decision.
Yes, I understand that difference. I know that once Kurzweil's singularity manifests and you and your bro's are in your high rises, that you will govern that way, one homo one vote.
But that would never work on a nation wide scale. It has to be a representative democracy. But even that doesn't work because most people lack revolutionary consciousness. They are more interested in playing meaningless games to get money.
So you are still bringing on a two-tier society, Masters and Slaves.
And yes, the slaves will have voted for it.
SJG
Oh, we are aiming far bigger than national scale. Already got people in dozens of countries.
Yes I know that. Its the postwar Nazi Party.
SJG
And SJG loses once again by Goodwin's Law. Lol!
Yes, you've talked about this Goodwin's Law before.
Undoubtedly Godwin is part of it.
I'm not making Hitler analogies anyway. I am saying that you and your ilk are trying to bring about fascist rule. That is not an analogy. It is just a straight forward reading of the direction things are going.
Democracy is always under attack. Hitler considered it to be against the "laws of nature". And with his speech at the Industry Club of Dusseldorf he was able to use this idea to gain their full support.
You Dougster are just a furtherance of this objective.
SJG
Pink Floyd: A Saucerful of Secrets 1968 youtube.com
So now SJG is basically saying "Just because I called someone a Nazi doesn't mean I called someone a Nazi!"
Identifying that you and your ilk are furthering Nazi objectives is not merely calling someone a Nazi, nor is it making analogies. It is just the very simplest Occam's Razor way of describing what is happening.
SJG
Actually it was a Liberal professor talking about black men in particular (he was thinking specifically about the low life expectancy of black men in America). But it should apply across the board if true. Like I say, though, I think men will always compete for the top women who are not hookers.
@SJG: It's all there in black and white above. You said the project I was working on was for the post war Nazi party. There's just no escaping that you've lost by Goodwin's Law anymore than vinceygirl michaels can get out of his contradiction about serving in the military/no-no protesting the war.
Adapting Darwinism to the social world? That is exactly how the Nazi's operated. Its how the New Economy operated too.
SJG
Not at all. The Nazis wanted to kill Jews who were the smartest part of German society. Instead of survival of the fittest, it was more like "death to the fittest".
Another interesting things is that they wanted to reduce schizophrenia by killing schizophrenics. Makes sense right? Turned out schizophrenia rates were actually statistically higher after their program than before it.
"It's funny because although the net swing this time (assuming it's over) was more than 40% I never thought of selling."
- The RSI of the Bitcoin 12 hour chart hit a low of 18.4 during the last nose dive which ended on July 15th, 2017. Yesterday the RSI of the same Bitcoin 12 hour chart hit a low of 18.6, when it reached the price of the former resistance line at $3000, before rebounding. I suppose anything is possible for the price of Bitcoin, but I would place my bets that ~$3000 was really the floor on this one. The low also coincided with the 38.2% Fibonacci line (with 0% at the prior low on July 15th, and 100% at the high of $4980).
Technical analysis, eliminating fundamentals is something I would avoid when picking an investment, but in this case how do you evaluate it? I guess chart reading is the only game to play.
@fts: I'm looking at GDAX. $4970 was the top tick and $2950 yesterday the bottom. So a 40.65% drop off the highs.
Good observations about the RSI and Fibonacci lines, but I think you mean it was a 61.8% retracement.
Apparently a big buyer yesterday was... Get ready for it... JPM Chase. Seems to be the pattern we are seeing alot of:
"Bitcoin is a worthless fraud with nothing to back it up! It'll go to zero. I'd never buy any!" "Oh, wait. We can get some around $3000 again? Shit, missed the last move, better pick some up this time."
@Meat72: I'm confused if you really believe you can't time the market then neither fundamental nor technical analysis nor any combination there of make any difference. You just buy as soon as you can because it's all a random walk, and you don't want to miss the slight upward expected (in the mathematical sense) move in between.
@Dougster here's a question in 2 parts for you I'm not the person who posed this originally but it is floating around just like many other unconfirmed internet rumors. A)What if anything besides belief in some unknown person, group or entity give value to bitcoin? B) what if bitcoin or other cryptos are an attack on the US economy by a hostile state actor or Terri ST type org. ?
Think I've answer some of these before:
a) Mainly the "provably" limited and predictable supply, and ease of transfer. Anonymity is another property although it isn't that great with Bitcoin. Also the fact that it is not tied to any one government, person, group or entity. "Decentralization" is spirit, although in practices some things about still need improvement.
b) In some sense they are. China and Russia and other countries, IMO, like and promote BTC b/c it is a competitor to the USD. Some people inside the US also like the fact that it's an alternative to the USD. I've written what I think the best way for US to respond to BTC is: make a national crypto-currency backed by federal reserve notes as competitor. Do it reasonably quickly too before BTC has built up the mindshare and infrastructure to be unstoppable.
^^^i hear what you are saying but my point especially part B of my question I don't believe the Fed can actually create a competitor in that arena as it would be undermining to "the full faith and credit of the United States".
Why that's? They just say that instead of printing 100x federal reserve notes this year, they are going to print 80x regular federal reserve notes and 20x US crypto currency notes 1:1 redeemable for regular federal reserve notes.
Or they could even have a mechanism where in addition to printing new ones to get one of these US crypto currency notes you had to "burn" one federal reserve not. Just like paper money gets taken out of circulation and destroyed all the time to be replaced by newer notes.
Not so sure that would work well in a country like this it might fuck the economy and make it even more favorable to the top tier of earners the so called 1%
Ah, now that is a new criticism of Bitcoin that is indeed starting to popping up. That it favors the richest of folks and what we've seen recently is the 1% starting to realize that and it adopt it because of that.
I've heard that it actually favors the poorest of folks.
But I don't think I've heard all the arguments and thought deeply enough about them yet. One thing I will do as I decide whether or not to contribute beyond passive investing to the one project I'm interested in.
Dougster thinks he is a leader in a master race. But in fact, he's just a whinny little faggot.
SJG
SJG loses by Goodwin's Law. Again! Lol!
hey san_jose_guy do you really have to try to ruin EVERY thread on TUSCL? just like all the other threads and like your very existence on this planet, you have absolutely no value to add to this one so SHUT THE FUCK UP asshole
Sure he has something to contribute:
PersonX: says something promote a belief completely the opposite of Nazism!
SJG: "You're a Nazi"
PersonX: No idiot, I advocated something which is the complete opposite of Nazism!
SJG: "So what? You're lying! Nazi!"
PersonX: Okay if that's all you got you lose by Goodwin's Law.
SJG: I did not call anyone a Nazi! And I do not lose, you Nazi!
This is the
This is what SJG is reduced to these days. Gone are the days of 10,000 word essays, citing 20 books by French Marxists to support his beliefs. Now it's just "call them all Nazis!"
Godwin's law is nonsense. We are talking about basic fact, those who are working to split the human race into two tiers.
SJG
Do You Know the Kissing Wench, the Kissing Wench, the Kissing Wench... kyddryn.blogspot.com
Pink Floyd - Dogs youtube.com
Maybe Dougster skips some of their meetings in Bayreuth, where they listen to Wagner. But he is still working to split humanity into two tiers.
SJG
SJG is what is known as a useful idiot. An example if you will as in if you do the opposite of anything he says you'll be fine.
@twentyfive "SJG is what is known as a useful idiot"
no one sane or not could dispute the idiot part but as far as useful goes you may have some convincing to do
Twentyfive, for you to take such a position means that it is you are such a useful idiot.
SJG
Well every living organism has some use I figure him as a bad example.
Walking into a strip club with a baby or a puppy? tuscl.net
Only one way to go beyond that.
I'm making you one just like this, only much larger: img0.etsystatic.com
Tell me which strip club I should send it to, so they can keep it in the corner for when you come in and need to use it.
SJG
Robbery Suspect Killed In Officer Involved Shooting mercurynews.com
Pink Floyd - Dogs youtube.com
Well SJG if you weren't such a threadjacker and killjoy it would benefit you greatly. You think every one needs to conform to your thinking and it ain't gonna happen. You act vindictive when you are called out rightly so and you insist thet you know everything but never cite any real experience just a bunch of made up shit about a Pentecost molester. You find no joy, in anything and any who finds something that gives them pleasure you try to convince them that they're wrong. The only reason you are here is because you can't. be anyplace else.
Hang in there 25, the webvan guy will be at your door an minute now: desitin.com
SJG
Frijid Pink - House of the Rising Sun youtube.com
^^^All you do is prove my point over and over.
This is why I love TUSCL, because of the highly unregulated intellectual content involved, except for the part that SJG contributes. If you can sift through the stupid stuff that SJG writes and ignore it, you can find some pretty useful conversation topics on this thread. Good job guys! Not you SJG, you just being down the LCD (lowest common denominator) of this thread. Everybody on here has called you a stupid fuck, and your only response is "I'm not s stupid fuck, you're the stupid fuck!"
Kind of like Tommy Boy when Chris Farley mumbles something in response to Richard (David Spade) and Richard says,"What was that? (nothing) That's what I thought!" Lol!!
Gaffigan:
SJG
Lol! JimG is right on again you stupid fuck SJG.
you guys really think that san_jose_guy is a stupid fuck? i guess that the world has finally found something we can all agree to. maybe working from this one universal truth, that san_jose_guy is a stupid fuck, all peoples and all governments everywhere can learn to work together and maybe just maybe achieve peace in our time
Trump administration is doubling down on its support for blockchain technology.
If you have government behind you, odds are it's a good long term investment
Read that Goldman Sachs is also at least considering implementing Bitcoin trading.
@Meat72 It depends how they go about it. For instance Jamie Dimon is all for BlockChain, but he think it all needs to be sovereign backed to have value. He is very wrong about that, but it is a credible position. How the Trump admin approaches is key: They might say we will let the free market come up with the best solution, which would be terrific news for Bitcoin, or they might say it's the Fed/NSA/NIST/academia who need to come up with solutions.
Or they can do a hybrid. Let the free market come up with the best technology, and then basically just take it over by putting a sovereign backed coin under.
New Hampshire seems to be going the route of looking for a free market solution. Excellent news for Bitcoin!
And, you can safely bet your ass/farm that GS wants in on Bitcoin trading. Same with the big, really-can-beat-the-S&P hedge funds.
Good link!