OT: Turbos ?

They kick ass now, my ride has what they call, the BiTurbo, don't even know it's there till you kick it, then its a fucking hoot.

Nice - a bi-turbo should have some serious kick - the kinda car I can afford would probably not have a bi-turbo though but would probably still be powerful enough.

My concern is mostly reliability since again back in the day the turbos seemed to be tempermental - I often tend to keep my cars for up to 10 years and would have reservations doing so w/ that type of seemingly more complicated type engine

You saw my ride at Vixens there are no maintenance issues yet, going over the one year mark, this car is serious fun to drive, but you need to be careful, before you know what happened you are north of a hundred MPH. It has been very reliable most new cars nowadays are.

You're right Papi, its to get the engine size down for fuel economy, while still getting good performance when wanted.

Maybe they used to be finickie, but they work well now. And there are plenty of V6's, just in larger cars that used to have V8's.

The Ford Focus RS is 4 cylinders 2.3 liters and 350hp. And I think they offer that in Mustangs too.

As far as it being two turbo's or just one big one, or even 4 turbos, it depends on the exhaust system design. Usually a V engine needs at least two turbos. But some V8's and V12's even have 4 turbos.

Anyway, I'll do just fine with my FIAT nuevo 500. I'll be driving along and then I'll see something closing on me in the rear view mirror. It blasts past me, not much sound though because it's quiet and comfortable. And I realize that its Twentyfive, his four doors blowing off my two doors.

But for the rest of us, without as much disposable as 25 has, we can still get non-turbo cars. About that hot weather issue, I would read what people are writing about that.

And for some time now, most cars have given up their anti-knock margin. So they have higher compression and totally depend on the anti-knock sensor notifying the computer, no matter what type of fuel they say to use. I would read up on that pertaining to the hot weather too. Power per liter levels have gone way up, but this does not mean that all reliability problems have been eliminated.

SJG

Toyota Supra, the king of budget street racing.

Seems to me the manufacturer warranty is typically 5 yrs 60K. If you're the kind of owner (like @Papi) that keeps his car for 10 yrs I would be skeptical. Seems to me you're pushing through more air at higher temperature and pressure, and that's got to take a toll over time.

@ RandomMember, My car has a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty, and a service plan that covers all maintenance for the 5 years it is covered under the warranty, I typically keep cars till I get to 250-300k on the odometer, as long as they are reliable, my last car was a 2009 CTS kept it to 275k sold it, then i bought this one. I typically am a high mileage driver avg,. about 28-32k miles per year, sometimes a bit more.

^^ Nice! Maybe modern turbos are designed for the long haul :)

TwentyFive likes 4 door luxury sedans.

SJG

Punched a Benz 500 SL,you could feel your body pushed back in the seat.
Punched a 911 Twin Turbo and you could feel your organs pressed against your spine.

I have a twin turbo / bi-turbo in my SUV. They do get extremely hot and I had one of the turbos shit some oil that eventually melted a hose going to the brakes. Not as big of a deal as it sounds but a costly fix that I couldn't do myself since the hose was a complex place to get to.

^^^But it's fun to kick it right.

4 liters ( bigger than those opposed engines had been ) 500hp
$143k

porsche.com

SJG

for the above porshe, curb weight: 3,116 lbs

lower than most of you current muscle cars.

SJG

700hp for this Porsche
porsche.com

SJG

Some gas engines and nearly all diesels use turbos to clean up the emissions. The turbo results in less unburned hydrocarbon emissions, particularly when the car is accelerating hard. In 20 years we will all be talking about electric cars on this forum and laughing that we used to drive turbos. :^)=

Volvo already committed to all electric cars in the near future.

Turbos extend the power envelope for stochiometric mixture. But whether a car has a turbo or not, for decades now, they have had to stay stochiometric. Long ago, cars could get more power by going to rich mixture.

So today, with the turbo, you can say that you are getting the power which used to be available with rich mixture. But those rich mixtures were long ago.

Rich mixtures mean unburned hydrocarbons and carbonmonixide. But doing that give the engine the cherry part of the reaction, so it makes more power. Today instead, the turbo give you more air, so you can also burn more fuel, but keeping it stochiometric.

SJG

Agree with HunterLap, but I'm thinking the day when we're all driving EVs is a lot closer than 20 years.

We'll see, but it'll be fun to watch.

Love modern turbos, while we have them!

I agree that electric motors are the wave of the future but I don't think in 20 years we all will be driving fully electric vehicles, as far as Volvo's intentions to go all electric may hit a few setbacks and even if they manage to complete a transformation of that nature, their total production is only a minuscule fraction of all vehicles manufactured, when GM or Toyota commits to that, then, and only then, will I believe that combustion engines, are on their way out.

The trend to turbos is not only with high-end cars, supposedly the 2018 Honda Accord is only a turbo version and no V6 option - the 2017 Honda CRV is a non-turbo 2.4L V4 in the lowest trim but the 3 upper trims are all 1.5L V4 turbo engines.

India will soon be the most populous country on the planet. They've supposedly declared all ICE will be banned by the year 2030. That means no ICE in a country with 1.5 billion people.

Germany has also supposedly banned all ICE by the year 2030, as has France, which is 150 million people. Norway, admittedly a small country, supposedly already has 55 percent of its cars on the road are EV.

That means alot is happening in the future of EV.

You seem very knowledgeable regarding cars, SJG.

@ WetWilly you have the right idea but the facts are a bit different, Norway is looking to do away with ICEs by 2025, in Germany the passed a resolution to ban ICEs by 2030, however a resolution is far from law, and India also is playing with the idea by 2030, so as you can see it is still far from a done deal at this point.
Here is an article about this subject material.
google.com

25, no one called this a done deal. Re-read your post in 10 years, though :-)

We're witnessing history.

^^^ I agree but not yet going to bet the farm.

Thread hijack, but I wonder how the majority of electricity will be generated if cars are all electric? Renewables like wind or solar? Maybe safe and modernized nuclear power? Or will we burn fossil fuels and defeat the purpose? It is really exciting, and agree that we're witnessing history.

Seems like they are making the biggest push for solar, but it's still quite expensive. However, arguments like "currently too expensive", "currently to slow", "currently not enough range" just invite scientist and engineers to improve the situation.

Interesting that the end of ICEs is slated to occur about the time nearly all vehicles will be able to be self-driving. (And also when Kurzweil is saying we'll have machines first able to pass Turing tests.)

All part of the convergence on the Singularity and the greatest economic boom in world history!

@Dougster, the eternal pessimist :)

Yeah, hopefully the cost of solar will come way down. Coal is really cheap in certain parts of the country -- but burning coal to generate electricity for cars is worse for the environment than ICEs. Trump wants to cut funding for renewables at the DOE by 70% which makes perfect sense. And the G20 stance on climate change is now (G19 + Trump). But eventually he will drop dead or get impeached.

25, I'm definitely willing to bet the farm on EVs. I'm perfectly ok with anyone betting on ICE, I know better.

Volvo is a minor, minor, player across the globe........ take a look at the facts here:

driving.ca

All that being said, I love modern day turbos, especially with the more elegant transmissions. No longer need the expensive dual clutch transformations to combine them with the new generation turbos.

^^^Or better take a smaller position in EV and increase it as the use becomes more widespread.
@ RandomMember there has been increasing electricity production and capacity will continue to expand with demand.

PS to Random Trump hasn't been able to get any of his agenda moving, I sincerely doubt that he will be able to reverse the shift away from coal it's happening in spite of him and continues regardless.

BTW Wet Willy that is what I said Volvo is minuscule compared to The manufacturers cited in your article.

I owned a turbo and never again.
It's simply old technology with recurring issues (150,000 RPM fan can only last so long).

If you want the kick of a turbo - opt for "super charger" instead. More reliable.

That said - I agree EV will be the technology of future and I have the low-end Tesla on order.

^^^Sounds like fun drive a funny car on the street )

To complement Roger's point about the advantages Supercharger over turbo, here is one view of the differences between the 2 designs.
Super charger gets its power directly from the crankcase.

youtu.be

Interesting comments from Tesla CEO Elon Musk today.

TESLA'S ELON MUSK SAYS REGULAR CARS WILL BE LIKE HORSES IN 20 YEARS.

evannex.com

^^^ Sorry about reviving a kind of dead issue but here is another take on the debate for the future of ICEs

money.cnn.com

I drive a four cylinder w a dual turbo. I don't think there is actually any fuel economy, since it requires premium fuel. It is fun to drive, and especially nice for when you need to speed up suddenly, like for merging quickly. It doesn't handle very well in rain, but I haven't had any issues with heat. That said, I don't live in Arizona, where all cars have heat related issues. My car is a more firm, sports like ride, than the six cylinders and big engine vehicles I've driven, but I grew up driving a maunual, so I like the responsiveness, even if it's a little less comfortable. There are a lot of "wee!" moments in the car when I'm driving lol.