better approach with strippers

i think you're over-thinking this

strippers aren't looking to hang out with or have sex with customers for free. therefore, the chances that its gonna happen for you is highly unlikely

i would just offer P4P

You need to align your actions with your objectives. That requires clear objectives, your question isn't clear about if you're trying to get laid for free or trying to date a girl who likes to fuck. The two are very different. Similarly, you can't try to get laid for free and for money at the same time. You can try one, then try the other. But if you try for both you'll probably get neither - ie, end up paying money and not getting laid.

That said, there is no right answer, there's too many variables. I've had business relationships lead to personal ones, I've tried to cultivate personal ones only to find out it was all business on her end and I could have saved us both the pretense by being direct. You have to read her, if part of your hypothetical is that your read is there are some genuine sparks and your desire is to cultivate a real relationship, treating her like a real person is obviously the way to go. I don't understand that would even a question. If you think there is a connection and you just wanna fuck her and not have a relationship, you can be more direct but basically what you're asking for is P4P without paying, nothing I've seen about your online persona gives me the idea you are even close to being able to pull that off.

I tend to agree with Dolfan. What you're describing aren't two "strategies", they're two (or more) completely different philosophies and ways of living, and I would question that one guy would even be capable of pursuing both or either without suffering from multiple personality disorder.

As I've said repeatedly, I don't do P4P, and the reason is quite simple, when I walk into a strip club, I'm not looking for a fantasy. And I don't like the phrase "treat her like a civilian". A stripper is not a civilian. You can't pretend that's not part of who she is. I tend to engage people very directly, very honestly, and that includes strippers. I get to know them as people, and in the past, when I was younger, that often resulted in getting to know them outside the club. Sometimes as friends, sometimes as more. I got offered pussy quite often, sometimes by girls who just straight up wanted to fuck. I guess I'm just wired differently than most guys, but if I have to pay a girl to have sex with me then I'm not interested because it's not real. I'm not saying that's wrong for other people. Everyone is different. It's just wrong for me.

I, too, find the distinction between "treat her like a civilian" and "be direct and straightforward" to be ... odd. I think it just shows a profound lack of understanding of people, and maybe that's the core to all the confusion here. It is possible to treat a stripper with respect and have her feel appreciated, without treating her as if she's a civilian ... and in fact, being direct and straightforward (when the time is right, with the right attitude) is absolutely part of that.

What I know is, here is a short list of things I'll have done the first time I meet a stripper, that I don't do on a civilian first date, in most cases:
- Get her buzzed, if not drunk
- Talk about sex, often in prurient detail
- Touch her genitals

Which doesn't mean I can't also her treat her in a way that she does not feel insulted and disrespected. But that is not "treating her like a civilian", it's just being a person. And, since strippers are offering services that civilians are not, it seems ridiculous to pretend there's no difference. Maybe by "treat her like a civilian", you guys mean "don't call her a whore or grab her ass without permission"? That has nothing to do with whether she's a civilian or not.

Luckily, there's no one formula to getting a stripper OTC, and even guys who are basically blundering around seem to score one now and then

The very best, ultimate method is the following:

OTC + ATF = TUSCL + [ ITC + $300 + PL + DATY - SS ] * YMMV + √(-1) 8 ∑ π

Here is a tried and proven system.
1. Make it rain $30K on her.
2. Don't engage in conversation with her.
3. Invite her to sporting events.
You are guaranteed to have her laught at you behind your back.

Oh wait, that wasn't the goal. Try something else.

I think you need to stop trying to make strippers into a monogamous girlfriend.

But whatever dude, just ask her out. They're are girls after all, just different line of work than normal.

"Hey, we should go do X together this week" or "Would you hang out with me outside the club"
If you want to date her, you gotta hope for the best there. If she's game, she'll say something about when/where and talk schedules.

If she's only interested in P4P with you, you'll find out based on her response. Probably something like asking what you'll do for her or something. Or maybe she'll be like "we can discuss that" or "how would that work".

I've only gone out with a few dancers (some paid, some not) so that's all the advice I can give. Never "played" for free though.

It is always, always, always better to treat women like civilians, and in all situations. This means treating her with respect and never trying to use money to persuade her.

But you can still be giving her money, and you can still be going for instant results.

You don't have to go for diner dates, and especially not with a girl you are talking with in a strip club.

Despite what so many creeps on this board say, lots of strip club girls will go home with you the first night, so long as you are not treating her like a prostitute. Most girls, especially if they are showing you their everything, are not interested in diner dates. They want to be fucked.

And if she wants money, she can steer it that way. Then give it to her as a show of respect.

SJG

Ritual Magik, Tree of Life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bem5dHPG…

also recommended:
https://www.amazon.com/New-Golden-Dawn-R…

I'm not interested in being in a relationship. Like Dolfan said I just want to fuck her and not have a relationship.

Anyone try SJG's front room makeout session treat her like a civilian method? :)

@GoVikings- plenty of people on here have talked about fucking strippers non P4P so it's definitely possible. Plus I think we have a "connection", if I ask her for P4P and she doesn't do P4P, I could definitely see her losing respect for me by even asking that question.

Treat her like a civilian is the wrong phrase. I meant like treat her nice and respectful like a girl you wanna date.

@Dolfan- I've actually fucked one stripper without paying, but that one kind of fell into my lap. Fucking her for free is not a main thing, I really just want to fuck her period.

Larry, people have posted that for them front room makeout sessions are a requirement before going into any back rooms or booths with the girl.

Treating her like a civilian means nice and respectful, like a girl you wanna date, but you can still go for instant action.

As far as not being in a relationship with her, why not, don't you like her? Wouldn't you like to be fucking her night after night?

SJG

SJG yes I do like her, and I would like to be fucking her night after night, but like Houjack says I can't try to make strippers into monogamous girlfriends.

Larry, you're contradicting yourself from one post to the next. No girl is going to want to fuck a guy who has all the backbone of a piece of jello - except of course the ones who are nothing but trouble. They would love a guy like you that they could pussy whip 24/7.

You are still dividing women into two categories, going along with the double standard. Men are admired for sexual prowess, while women are looked down upon for it. As long as you feel that way, you are only harming yourself by spending time and money in strip clubs, because you see the women as tainted.

SJG

Tarot and Tree of Life

https://www.bota.org/resources/index.htm…

http://www.corax.com/tarot/index.html?tr…

w/ serpents and dragon guarding access to Daath
http://www.tarotofthepomegranate.com/kab…

https://tarotskeptic.files.wordpress.com…

big enough to read cards
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mH3T-_8JAcU/Up…

Dove and Serpent OTO
http://doveserpent-oto.org/reference_lib…

Practical Magick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZUYF9cZ…

Pussy whipped 24/7? That could be true, but tell me why.

I agree that the only girls who like jelly fish guys are 100% trouble. Personal experience.

SJG

If you just want to fuck and not interested in any type of relationship then it might be in your interest to get an account on TER...

Best to meet your girls F2F, like at strip clubs.

But why not go after girls you actually like and respect, and not to divide them into two categories.

SJG

@trackstar- I'm not saying I wouldn't be interested in any kind of relationship. I'm saying I'm not interested in dating her exclusively. With my crazy work schedule right now it's hard for me to give a girl the attention she deserves, plus I'm not gonna act that she probably wouldn't be fucking other guys too. I wouldn't mind going to social functions with her and what not. I would never go the escort route, I'm too afraid I'd get caught in one of those LE stings.

-->"Treat her like a civilian is the wrong phrase. I meant like treat her nice and respectful like a girl you wanna date."

Larry, getting you to realize that "treat her like a civilian" is the wrong phrase was step 1 in my larry rehabilitation plan :) It's not just the wrong phrase, it's borderline childish. Are you really going to go into the strip club and not get lap dances, not talk about sex, sit and talk about her hobbies and what movies she's seen, like you would a civilian first date? She's a stripper, it's never appropriate to treat her that way ... which doesn't mean you can't treat her in a way that she feels respected and valued. I would NEVER treat a stripper like someone I want to date, either, which is just another way to say "treat her like a civilian".

Usually if you would not be seeing her exclusively then it is better to be POLITELY handing her money, making her into your mistress. The girl in question may or may not be open to this.

But you don't have to discuss this with her, just let it go that way. Just don't treat her like a prostitute or as someone you look down upon or see as beneath you.

SJG

For the most part you don't seem to know what you want or even what you believe, and to the extent that you do know you don't seem willing to stand up for your beliefs. You come across as being very dishonest and very weak-willed because your opinion on any given subject seems to be whatever the last person you spoke to believes. All of this is incredibly unattractive to women. The only women who would accept a guy like this paradoxically enough, are certain strippers and prostitutes and drug addicts who don't want or can't accept any boundaries. They don't want a man in their life controlling them or telling them what to do in any way, so a guy like you who can give them dick but won't make any demands on them is perfect. This is one reason I've told you that you shouldn't be going to strip clubs. If you get hooked up with a woman like that you will be fucked up even worse than you are now. There are guys on this board who have spent thousands, even tens of thousands of dollars to fail spectacularly with women. Don't be another failure.

If you are in your 20's and want free sex, develop your game and go anywhere BUT a strip club to sarge. Strippers are all about money. Why would she fuck you for free when there are tons of other guys willing to pay hundreds or even a thousand dollars to fuck her? It is okay to be young and go to a strip club here and there, but if it is your sole outlet for meeting women to bang, you are headed for a lifetime of hurt.

I can't even bust this fuckers chops because he is so pathetic. At least Sinclair gave him a honest dose of reality.

Fishsticks pussy game is weaker than a Clackport song.

"@GoVikings- plenty of people on here have talked about fucking strippers non P4P so it's definitely possible. Plus I think we have a "connection", if I ask her for P4P and she doesn't do P4P, I could definitely see her losing respect for me by even asking that question."

well sure its possible to have sex with strippers for free, but its also highly unlikely. strippers are about money. i don't understand why you don't get this.

You're looking for a casual "friends with benefits" arrangement. Not easy to pull off with civilian women, and nearly impossible with a stripper (especially if they initially meet you in the strip club). Strippers prefer to get money for sex acts, hence "sex workers".

And if you're looking for some sort of "fuck strippers for free" formula or strategy, then you've overdosed on PUA videos on YouTube.

Stop trying to engineer a black swan event into existence. That's not how black swan events work.

Larry here's something you should seriously consider. You get legitimate advice from many here and I mean that but the craziest most batshit out there character the one that is the most dishonest is the one you seem to engage with the most. Either you really are young and naive or you are trolling us, I hope for your sake it is the latter because if you are seriously considering the advice from crazy there is no hope left for you. Again I am not looking to insult you I am trying honestly to get you to look at things realistically.

^^^^ He's also not a very good rapper

Thanks for the insight and the tough love from some of you, I needed that. A lightbulb just turned on in my head.

RickyBoy's The System. Get your white three piece polyester suit ready!

Larry, I haven't been trying to insult you either. I just know that when a guy like you walks into a strip club it's not gonna end well. The #1 tip off is that you actually think it's a good idea to fuck or date strippers. There are exceptions to everything, but generally speaking that's a really bad idea. Girls don't become strippers by accident. It takes a lot of bad decisions to get to the point where semi-prostitution is your only way of paying the bills. My #1 reason for walking into a strip club is job stress. I look at the girls as a pleasant distraction or entertainment, and until you get to that point you need to stay the hell out of strip clubs.

If I were you, I think I'd probably get on Tindr. It's a free download. I'd try to set up a date with a different girl every week, not with the intention of fucking her but just to get some experience with women. Try to figure out what you want in women. Try to figure out what you do that makes you fail with women. If you meet a girl you like and it doesn't work out, just move on. There are more women on this planet than you could possibly date in ten lifetimes. Don't waste time or energy on the relationships that don't work. Use what you learned to do better the next time.

I do a combination of both. The A. part is treating like I would a civilian, but only offering like food after their shift. Nothing above and beyond that would require prior planning.

I've almost come to the conclusion that, unless you got it for free the first time, it's all about the money to them. You may have a connection or get along well, but that doesn't mean it's not about the money. Hell, if I could get paid to have sex and hangout with a woman Im somewhat attracted to and we get along well, I'd keep fucking and hanging out with her all the while accepting her money.

A fav I've known for about 3 years (latter part of knowing OTC began) could only simply say "I was cool" when I asked her what she liked about me. Note, OTC is never timed especially if she doesn't have to get back to her kids and she's offered and I have stayed the night once with no additional money out of pocket.

One more point that nobody is making. Even if she turns out to be the unicorn and falls in love with you it isn't going to change a lifetime of poorly thought out decisions and bad life choices, whether you believe it or not most strippers do not think the same as civilian women.

^ And it will be difficult for you to put behind you the fact that she was once a stripper and all the preconceived notions you have with that.

Oh, and you're a douche.

Larry, listening to what you describe, I think many guys get what you are wanting by being business travelers. They have multiple women in different places, and usually they are giving them money. It is not straight hooker fees, it's mistress maintenance. You might need to be a bit older though for that.

FWIW, in the organization I am building, all the guys get all the stripper grad pussy they want on a daily basis, and never any money involved.

For myself though, in places beyond the borders of the above, I will be using the mistress maintenance method.

SJG

How many people are in this organization? Is there a membership fee?

As of right now it is just a handful of people, locally, and without any legal incorporations.

But there will be membership fees and those pay for the club houses and a fleet of shuttle vans. The money will be strictly accounted for any my own salary will be $1 per year.

SJG

^^^Correction; a handful of imaginary people.

SJG m, why is it that every post you create just repeats what you've already written?

Don't you have anything better to do?

Ha Ha Ha there #25.

And Gaffigan, because some people ask for clarification, and I guess don't read every post that carefully. Don't you have something to do besides posting negative meta-narratives?

SJG

What do you mean by "front room friendliness"?

Like others have said, strip clubs are just place to look at attractive wonen and escape from stress for a few hours. If your intention is to date/hook up with a stripper and have a real life bf/gf relationship with them it's highly unlikely that will happen. The most you can hope for is OTC p4p, if that is even possible because not all dancers will go there, even that is stretching it for a bit.

If you go off the deep end you end up becoming the 'stalker guy' dancers have fear about!

gunrack, Strip clubs nominally are as you say. But everyone's fantasy is to start dating or hook up with a stripper. In my very first strip club visits, over 30 years ago now, I found that that was quite plausible, just so long as you don't treat them like prostitutes. Most guys ruing it because they treat the girls like prostitutes.

flagooner, Front room friendliness, means don't buy dances, feed her money and engage in the front room. That way you can lead it. Best is a makeout session, lots of DFKing, tittie massaging, and sometimes even FIV.

SJG