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OT: Future of Broadcast Radio?

san_jose_guy
money was invented for handing to women, but buying dances is a chump's game
What do you think the future of broadcast radio can be?

Consider that we have The Internet, WiFi, and the cell phone system. So is there still a role for broadcast radio?

Should it be talk or music? Serious talk, or the usual right wing bullshit?

How about HD Radio?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Radio
https://hdradio.com/

And then how would it be paid for, standard paid advertising? The Pacifica Listener Supported model? PBS mixed model?

For a pay to listen model, probably better just over The Internet or the cell phone network.

https://www.amazon.com/Jingles-Write-Pro…

Interesting book about how to write and record jingles for radio ads, and do it all cost effectively. Usually radio ads have been for local retailers.

So what do you think, where is the future of broadcast radio?

SJG

Panthers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bcubkt6…

25 comments

  • shailynn
    •
    8 years ago
    I guess since you live in your mom's basement you don't get Satellite Radio down there? That's a format that apparently you don't know about since it's not on your list. You should check it out:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_…
  • ime
    •
    8 years ago
    It already happened, they are called podcasts.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    8 years ago
    Sounds like something which requires a satellite dish, hence installed on the outside of a building.

    Yes, it is broadcast radio. But it is going to be microwave. We can talk about it. But I was more interested in use of the AM and FM bands.

    The new HD Radio technology makes better use of those bands. Receivers don't need to be big or expensive. Transmitters can be retrofitted, but people are offering new HD Radio ready transmitters.

    And then, what kind of programming, and what kind of revenue model?

    Thanks,
    SJG
  • skibum609
    •
    8 years ago
    As long as it is not the ridiculous fraud called mainstream news, which is just more bitching and whining from the mental defectives called Progressives, no Americans care.
  • DoctorPhil
    •
    8 years ago
    @san_jose_guy. still hearing the voices in your head aren't you. well take your fucking meds you PSYCHO little bitch
  • rickdugan
    •
    8 years ago
    We've had wi-fi, satellite radio, cell service, etc. for a very long time now. Yet broadcast radio is still going strong. This might have something to do with the fact that radios are built into every car driven in America. Oh yeah, and most of those radio stations also live stream their broadcasts now, so people are listening to them on wi-fi and even their cell service as well. Now satellite radio has gotten some traction, but many people have made it clear that they would rather listen to radio for free and tolerate some commercials than pay for a satellite subscripton.
  • shailynn
    •
    8 years ago
    Ricky is right, people have made it clear they don't want to pay for their radio. I wonder how many subscribers would leave SiriusXM if Howard Stern was gone? After all he only goes live 3 days a week now.
  • Dougster
    •
    8 years ago
    Well as far as cars go, they will be moving to self-driving in a few years then people can watch videos instead. I have an Amazon echo sitting next to me on my desk at home and sometime's get it to play music for me when I'm doing stuff on the internet (like slam dunking RickyBoy) that doesn't require alot of concentration.

    Haven't looked into it, but if Echo can't already it will probably be able to stream internet radio, including SiriusXM soon.
  • shailynn
    •
    8 years ago
    It may already do that Doug? Not sure I have one too but I haven't even taken it out of the box yet!
  • deogol
    •
    8 years ago
    "Should it be talk or music? Serious talk, or the usual right wing bullshit?"

    Well, it won't be the usual left wing bullshit, as "Air America" went bankrupt and sent many commentators to MSNBC.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Americ…
  • twentyfive
    •
    8 years ago
    I find satellite radio to be easier to listen to than FM nowadays, I am on the road for 20 hours a week visiting various job-sites and for the low cost I think it's under $150 a year and I use Sirius satellite radio, its built into my car and has been in my last 5 vehicles, you don't lose stations when driving from one state to another and I haven't listened to Howard Stern since I was in my thirties.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    8 years ago
    25, I am surprised that satellite radio works on a moving vehicle. I had not followed that. Sure if it works, it would be good if you drive long distance. Been out in the middle of nowhere myself, very few stations. And those they have are not very good.

    So it looks then like Internet podcasts and livestreams are here to stay, and so use them when available.

    I would say then that the main benefit of AM and FM broadcasts is the low cost and the high tolerance to roving up to moderate range, plus the fact that it is live and most anywhere.

    AM and FM broadcasts are a 1 : multitude communications medium, so it should cost little. Where as the internet is always 1:1, 2 way communications system.

    Cell phones and WiFi, I believe still have problems with continuity during roving. And somewhere, the higher cost of their systems is getting paid.

    Satellite radio, working on a moving vehicle? Well I believe there would still be situations, like when out jogging, when it would not be workable.

    So then what kind of program material? Well it would be best for what is live, like news, or events.

    Now there is established precedent that people can listen to radio while driving or doing some jobs, but not watch video. So this gives it a niche.

    I find it easier to do chores while listening to audio, than with video going.

    And then the HD system allows additional channels and makes a huge improvement in sound quality. The cost addition, especially at the receiver end, should be minimal.

    So about mainstream news, less and less of that today. What has really risen, is right wing news. From reading this forum, that is obvious. Hard to do anything about that.

    Funny that someone mentioned AirAmerica. That was along the lines of what I was thinking. If the costs can be lowered, then maybe it could go again. We have lots of college stations here, and Pacifica Network KPFA. I don't think any of these things cost much money to operate.

    But unlike AirAmerica they don't have nationally known personalities. They have volunteers. Both music and progressive leaning talk. The music is eclectic. The talk is enjoyable, but it is not jocular or intended to entertain.

    I don't deal much with consumer media.

    Do people here own HD capable radios?

    1. for car?
    2. table radio, w/ alarm clock?
    3. real small, like for carrying with you, or while jogging or bicycling?
    4. designed to operate while connected to computer?

    Do you listen to HD stations? AM band or FM band?

    I guess people will not ever want to have to subscribe. Would soliciting donations and the coffee mugs be okay? Or should it be supported by commercials? Usually commercials would be local retailers. But also, AM radio has a tremendous range, if you have the right kind of license and enough power.

    Anyone listen to short wave radio stations?

    Thanks,
    SJG
  • twentyfive
    •
    8 years ago
    Satellite radio basically works anyplace you can recieve line of sight signals from I believe are 9 geostationary sattelites, if you enter a tunnel or are in the shadow of a mountain on the blocked(or dark) side it won't receive a signal but other than a cutoff from line of sight the signal will carry. Occasionally bad weather may interfere and entering a garage or covered parking lot will totally block your signal but it works fairly well much better than AM, FM or short wave and CB or comm radios. If you subscribe to a service like Sirius XM your content is tremendous from their own stations broadcasting commercial free content mostly music to news programs rebroadcast like CNN, FOX , Bloomberg, to right wing talk radio left wing talk radio, sports the spectrum is tremendous PBS has a few channels.
    I find it to be great when I am on the road.
  • JimGassagain
    •
    8 years ago
    Most cars have satellite installed. People who want to hear higher quality shows with less advertising are going to pay for that service, therefore the revenue stream will always be easier than trying to sell crappy advertising space like terrestrial radio has to in order to survive.

    Howard Stern will always maintain some presence at Sirius/XM, so that crowd will never go away. Plus there will be other talk shows of high quality to help fill the void as he begins to slow down.
  • Dougster
    •
    8 years ago
    25: " Occasionally bad weather may interfere "

    Even too many trees can do it.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    8 years ago
    Well, you can see that I am not really into consumer electronics. More often than not, over the last 30 years, I've driven around in cars without a radio.

    But I agree that radios in cars do have a big appeal.

    About satellite radio being in most cars. You've seen how they have to aim the small dishes when they are installed. So I wonder if to make it work in cars they have to have a two dimensional phased array, with aiming software, to keep it working as the car changes orientation. I still have my doubts about how well that would work. I understand the line of sight idea. But they at least used to need quite a bit of directivity, antenna gain, to get good reception from the satellite.

    Now as far as the driverless cars, yeah yeah yeah, Dougster, always clearing the way for Kurzweil's Singularity, and the human race splitting into two.

    Now, about programming. I think it is a lot like the way music went. When most people just listened to AM, there really was one music market. When it went to FM also, in the 70's,then the musical genre's split.

    Seems to be the same way with news. There had been a kind of official news, which at least I grew up with. And they tore LBJ and Nixon to shreds.

    But with these new types of media, like cable TV and the internet, news has split. Many younger people have no idea what the old mainstream news was like. Sad. But what has taken off is right wing news, having absolutely no relation to reality whatsoever, and the world views of many people being completely defined by it.

    How to counter that? Should we even try? So back to AirAmerica, as I see it in retrospect, that was intended to counter Fox, more than anything else.

    Some of it I liked, some I did not really care for. Al Franken, with his Henry the K. impersonations, is hilarious.

    But I found reception difficult. Third tier low power stations with limited coverage.

    And it was supported by local ads, "crappy advertising space". I don't have a sense for the economics of that.

    How to make very effective and economical radio ads:
    https://www.amazon.com/Jingles-Write-Pro…

    So I don't have cable TV, and I am not ever going to. What pays for Fox? Local ads? Nationwide Ads? Corporate name sponsorship? Same money which pays for the Republican Party? I really don't know.

    Was the Air America on air talent an excessive financial drain? It was supposed to be a nationwide network.

    What does seem to work, not to counter Fox, but just to be enjoyable, are the local stations, with locally produced content. And on the fully commercial side there haven't been many of these in decades.

    But what we have are the 3 college stations ( SJSU, Stanford, KFJC at Foothill College )

    Pacifica, KPFA.

    And then KDFC, Classical Music, I think it still runs.

    For many years I listened to NPR, but now I really don't have the patience to listen to it. It is that Sensible Shoes Perspective. They believe that all problems would be solved if women just wore Sensible Shoes. And then there was all the continual boosting for the dotcom boom. So I can do without it today.

    So I'm not sure how well classical music works on the radio, but KDFC, as I remember they had very low key ads, read by the host, more like sponsorship from local retail.

    The college stations, I think they do fund drives. KFJC is the one I've listened to the most. And their fund drive spots are always hilarious. They are making fun of mainstream and commercial media, and they do it very well.

    So for me it is Pacifica and these three College Stations.

    So it is eclectic music, and the HD modulation system would improve it.

    And then it is talk. Most of the talk is not a direct attempt to refute right wing media. Usually they are not going down the days news with a critique. That can be had on Democracy Now. But most of the other talk, it is topical, and for the most part it does support a very different world view than right wing media. For me, it is usually more interesting than AirAmerica was.

    So could the college stations support themselves? I don't know. But KPFA must be able to.

    Most all of it is local.

    https://kpfa.org/schedule/

    Probably what I have over the years found the most interesting is this "Against the Grain". Most of the time it is someone who has written a book.
    https://kpfa.org/program/against-the-gra…

    And also there is a book with many of their interviews:

    https://www.amazon.com/Capital-Its-Disco…

    But this kind of stuff is not live events, and often I am listening via pod casts.

    And of the eclectic music on these stations, usually it is music I otherwise would not even know of.

    And of live events, usually small stations don't have the resources for that. Also, some live events come across better with an after the fact mix down.

    But KPFA has done live coverage of Uri's Night, at Moffett Field NASA Ames. But mostly this is just having their host there, letting you hear some of the sounds, between musical selections. It did move me to go up there though.

    I got to look at some large aircraft, rolled out of hangers to open up space, and to hear:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu4U3VG1…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOkAvsOe…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwe7ELM1…

    A decade ago there was a discussion about the future of NPR, and they were saying, get out of the studio and get out to lecture halls and concerts, "where culture happens".

    I understand the idea, but I wonder. Maybe their are more local things which would come across well live on the radio.

    Before Reagan, there used to be requirements that radio stations had a certain amount of talk shows. So the rock stations often had very good and interesting talk shows, often late at night.

    And then I always loved to listen to Stan Dale:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyfbDg5M…
    Very different world view than what I saw around me each day.

    So most of this stuff, its music I did not know about, events I did not know about, and people who have points of view which are entirely new to me.

    I think people agree that AM and FM are underutilized, and that there is space for more low power stations.

    Thanks everyone for all the info,
    SJG
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    8 years ago
    Satellite Antenna for Car
    https://www.amazon.com/SiriusXM-NGVA1-Ma…

    Not sure how this works. But it had been that satellite dishes needed to be aimed.

    So when busy doing other things, I cannot watch videos. And I cannot really run a computer to search for podcasts.

    So radio, cheap, HD, can be good. Best is if it offers me things like eclectic music, and talk about things which go beyond what I know. So you could say, it is the diametric opposite of right wing hate radio and the programmed music stations.

    Consider this:

    Table radio with alarm clock. Has two speakers, but it can also dock cell phone, charge phone, take music from it. Can connect to computer and be run by it. But also it's two speakers can be the computer sound system. And it has place to connect two more speakers and sub woofer. But all by itself, computer off, it can be alarm clock and for listening to radio.

    Then also real small radio to carry around with you. 2x AA cells or wall wart for power.

    Would such eclectic radio stations make money? Could be non-profit and use a combination or local retail sponsorship and fund raising.

    Maybe not making much money, but it still should be able to go.

    SJG
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    8 years ago
    Like this, still looks not to be HD Radio capable, and I guess also still analog tuned.

    https://www.radioshack.com/products/am-f…

    SJG
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    8 years ago
    Digitally tuned, but not HD Radio capable

    https://www.radioshack.com/collections/r…

    SJG
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    8 years ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Radio

    Well, this is ibiquity's system. Would not like the idea of having money going to someone for developing such a system. Needs to be open and free.

    But doesn't seem to be used, much, even quite a few years in.

    https://hdradio.com/

    https://hdradio.com/get-a-radio/home-rad…

    yeah, need to make sure this is a free system, as all of our other modulation schemes are.

    SJG
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    8 years ago
    6 FM and 1 AM for San Jose. Not that many.
    https://hdradio.com/stations

    And I think we should plan on having some license fee free digital HD system.

    But a non-profit HD radio station that does eclectic music and talk, and live feed from local events, could be real good. And using the AM and FM bands could be better than Internet, Cell Phone, or Satellite.

    Most of the show hosts could be unpaid. And making it non-profit makes it easy to solicit money on air, along with having sponsorship messages. And money could be solicited for all start up fees.

    HD, Bluetooth, Satellite ready car radio
    https://www.walmart.com/ip/New-Kenwood-C…

    SJG
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    8 years ago
    There are lots of situations where I could be listening to radio, while doing other stuff, but not watching video or looking for stuff to listen to on a computer.

    HD Radio would help because of the better sound quality, way above broadcast format analog FM.

    Best program material

    1. New eclectic music
    2. Eclectic talk
    3. Live local events

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBiquity

    But if this means royalties, then I suggest making something else, something better.

    The analog color television format was very complicated, for its day, NTSC. But no royalties. Should keep it that way. Or a one time pay off to make it royalty free.

    SJG
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    8 years ago
    Visited a Radio Shack. This was where I first saw HD Radio's, years back. Today they don't have any and they don't even seem to know what they are.

    Lots of Wifi stuff, and HDMI switches. I've always felt that video game boxes should be made with HDMI switching capability.

    But no HD Radios. What the did have, to me, seemed out of date and overpriced, not really well thought out and well designed products.

    SJG
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    8 years ago
    Visited a Radio Shack. This was where I first saw HD Radio's, years back. Today they don't have any and they don't even seem to know what they are.

    Lots of Wifi stuff, and HDMI switches. I've always felt that video game boxes should be made with HDMI switching capability.

    But no HD Radios. What the did have, to me, seemed out of date and overpriced, not really well thought out and well designed products.

    SJG
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    8 years ago
    Montrose at KSAN, 1973. This was before they released their first album. And I like it better.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzC835bh…

    We have had recording studios which are also little night clubs. As they have no alcohol license, they usually make it for under 21 or under 18.

    Could a new local radio station broadcast such performances, with or with out the live audience?

    This way they would be creating their own live events.

    And then some sorts of music aren't really for night clubs anyway.

    SJG
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