ask about mileage/extras b4 the dance? reasking later after a no to mileage/extr

So I read back over a couple of your reviews because I thought you had this stuff worked out already. That one about the stain at Showcase Theater is still burning my eyeballs. At any rate, it sounds like you are typically in a place where nothing much happens ITC. Why not just take a break and see where things are when you go back?

Where are you clubbing where this kind of stuff happens? Last time I went to a club, the dancer wouldn't even give me her number unless I took her to the VIP, which I did not do because it's $250 for a half hour, and there are cameras.

@ lech:

A stripper telling you she'll give you her # only if you take her to VIP is a con and she's most-likely trying to string you along to get all the $$$ she can out of you w/o giving you what you want

I normally don't go to SCs w/ extras in mind - I normally like to get some VHM dances to get turned on and then I may try to go for the extras.

A SC is business (def for her) so it's best to be straight forward and ask about what you want - better that you call the shots and be in control rather than the dancer (afterall you're the one paying so you should get what you want rather than what the stripper decides to give you) - having said this it can often work better if one has a bit of a rapport w/ a dancer b/f asking for the whole shebang - but nothing wrong w/ asking for what you want and what you're interested in and walking if you don't get it, it's your $$$ (until you give it to her then it's gone so best to ask what you want beforehand) .

Generally if a dancer doesn't perform to expectations I don't bother w/ her anymore since I'm into variety and rarely get hooked on any one dancer (even if she performs well) - but strippers are often a crapshoot, I've had strippers treat me poorly on one visit then rock my world the next time I see them in the club - also sometimes it takes them a while to warm up to high-mileage - I've seen strippers be low-mileage when I first see them then be VHM a few months later.

There probably isn't a hard fast rule when dealing w/ strippers b/c many of them can be all over fhe place and be too unpredictable - as long as you can see what's going on and not thinking w/ your dick you can treat each situation individually depending on the girl.

I DO ask explicitly about extras. Typically, in extras clubs, I start off with a $20 lap dance, and I ask about the extra I want while she's still on my lap, about 2/3 of the way into the dance. If she says yes, I negotiate right there, again while she's on my lap.

I DO NOT ask about mileage ahead of time. Typically, the way I SC in no-extras clubs, by the time we're going back to the VIP, we've been drinking and having fun for an hour already, chances are we've done some groping out on the floor at the table, and frankly, I feel like I owe her $100 no matter what. So I just take her in the back and whatever happens, happens. If it sucks, well, counting floor time and VIP time I've had 90 minutes of fun with her, so I just move on, pretty happy. If it's great, even better.

-->" I used to believe, if you ask, she will say no automatically, if you physically try, she will look the other way and go with your flow. If you asked before, she would have said no, then enforced the no in VIP. Now I always ask, because Im not desperate."

If you don't negotiate extras beforehand, you're begging to get ripped off. I don't bother negotiating mileage beforehand, as explained above. But, in the actual VIP, I absolutely seek consent as I push the boundaries. Not because "I'm not desperate", but because the feeling you had before ("if you ask she'll say no, but if you just do it she'll let it happen") is understandable but backwards: there are many girls who will let a customer go further if they trust him more, I've seen it any number of times as my buddies and I get dances from the same girl and later exchange notes... the handsiest most-assertive guy routinely gets less mileage than I do, although sometimes there are stark exceptions where he just overwhelms a girl and she lets him do whatever he wants (this in itself might make for a super fun thread)

i'm all over the map on this question. but i think i experience more success in taking my chances of a OMG KMSO experience with a dance that just happens to click.

Treat girls like civilians. Make it happen with her in the front room. Don't let them sell you dances. When you have a makeout session going and it is time for your pants to come down, then you invite her to the back room. Totally civilian in style.

Sometimes there are limits on what can happen in clubs, but if you do it this way you will probably end up waking up in the morning with the girl. So the club limits won't matter.

I learned to approach girls this way in AMPs, as our local strip clubs are strict no touching. But I also noted how sometimes when a girl was trying to set herself up with an OTC for that night, she would start DFKing in defiance of the rules.

SJG

IMO... I think the first step is to determine what kind of mileage can be expected in a particular club. How you approach a Detroit club vs say cowtown PA should be different. Second, I try to ask open ended questions: What are YOUR (her) rules? How do the room dances compare to the LDs? Admittedly maybe not a great strategy. Answers range from vague to specifics. Ultimately you DO need to negotiate terms and price. Third, I believe (in general) the menu improves when you are a known quantity in a club. Maybe this does not apply somewhere like Detroit or Follies, but where I tend to club the experience is generally better when the dancers recognize you.

mjx has a point about getting the lay of the land. If I were to add anything to that, it'd be to say I handle every visit on a case-by-case basis.

TUSCL has been helpful in deciding which places to visit in which town and which order, but once I'm in a club it's all about what's there in the moment. When it gets down to it, the girl is going to do what she decides to do regardless of the rules or what the club allows. If your goal is to get a certain type of dance, that's one thing. If it's getting the girl you want, that's another. Guys trying to get both at the same time is how these clubs stay in business.

Playbooks help, but don't get too attached to one approach. One of the hottest dances I got last year was from a hostess who I mistook for a dancer in street clothes. First and last time in the club. The less than stellar stripper I'd tipped $5 for being nice offered to watch the door for her while we disappeared for a half hour.

-->"Second, I try to ask open ended questions: What are YOUR (her) rules?"

The girls on stripperweb would give you a gold star! :) :) Just teasing, but definitely not a strategy I'd follow... at the no-extras low-touch clubs I go to, in my experience from my buddies who ask this type of question, nearly 100% of girls will tell a first-time customer some variation of "no touching my pussy"/"no touching wherever my thong covers"/etc. Meanwhile, I don't ask such things, and get to touch their pussy or places their thong covers nearly 100% of the time. They learn pretty quickly that -- at least in non-extras clubs -- such open ended questions by a first-time customer get a canned response that's mostly aligned with club rules. For myself, if there were a specific act I MUST have, and that act were a bit iffy rules-wise, I'd be asking about that act specifically DURING a lapdance (before I did the VIP), for a number of reasons.

-->" I think the first step is to determine what kind of mileage can be expected in a particular club."

Agree, although any club has a huge range, even no-extras clubs have girls who do extras, etc. But beyond that, there will be a "club culture" that the girls follow, and train their customers (at least the regulars) to follow, too

Yeah, IME often times open-ended questions get sorta open-ended answers - sure, in some clubs or with some dancers one gets what they want w/ the simplest of questions or even w/o even asking, but in my PL-experience I've gotten the most by pushing the envelope vs sitting back and letting the dancer to her own devices - often times IME is up to the PL to get the most out of the interaction w/ the dancer - often times I just go for it and the dancer responds in kind (but not everytime of course but enough times to make it worth pushing the PL-envelope)

What would everyone estimate the percentage of dancers st no touch (but one way contact from the dancer, including grinding) clubs eventually allows her tits to be touched?

I've been a somewhat regular at w club like this and my mileage has gotten a little better with anparticular dancer. As far as I know it's a no touch club (although there's hardly any reviews over the past couple years). There are cameras (not sure if they work) but no bouncer by the LD booths. I had one dancer say no touching other than her hips and the other dancers haven't said anything. I had been seeing one dancer a few different times, after that I put my hands on her hips and then gradually moved them to her ass. She had no problem with me squeezing her ass. I was very tempted to move my hands up near her tits but I didn't want to do something I wasn't allowed to.

At this same club there was a different dancer that encouraged me to squeeze her tits all I wanted in a different lap dance room but I have no interest in getting more dances from her.

So I'm trying to figure out if touching if touching is allowed or if that one dancer was the exception. Next time I see the other dancer I think I'll just ask if I can touch her tits.

Don't have much experience w/ no-touch clubs but in my limited experience I've gotten no-touching or maybe a quick squeeze at best - perhaps that dancer took you to a part of the club she knew wasn't camera-monitored and why she let you touch her?

w/ a low-mileage dancer "sometimes" mileage has gotten better the more dances I've gotten I assume b/c she wants/likes me spending on her

It's kind of a weird layout at the club I mentioned. The regular lap dance area is called the Champgaigne Lounge and has probably 10 leather chairs lined up next to each other with a divider in between each one. There's a wall behind al the chairs with a walkway down the middle that leads into the room and then a walkway along the front of the chairs. Then there's a long mirror that runs across the length of the chairs that you look into as you sit. This is the room where I've gotten most of the dances and touched the dancers ass. There are cameras visible and other people a couple chairs down can kind of see what you're doing cause of the mirror.

Then there's a separate smaller room in a different part of the club. It's not called anything but when I agreed to get dances from the dancer that allowed me to touch her tits she took me into this room. It's a little darker but still has a camera. There's a couple couches (no divider) but no one else was in there with us. Is we walked in we went to the right a little bit then sat down. When we sat the doorway was on the wall in front of us but we were to the left of it so anyone that walked by wouldn't be able to see us unless they walked in. It was in this room that she put my hands on my tits, flashed her pussy (topless only club) and kissed me. I just paid for regular lap dances so I'm not sure why we were in this other room. I've only seen this dancer and one other dancer use this room.

The next time I saw the dancer whose ass I touched (and want to touch her tits) I asked her what the difference was between the rooms but she really didn't give me an answer.

-->"What would everyone estimate the percentage of dancers st no touch (but one way contact from the dancer, including grinding) clubs eventually allows her tits to be touched?"

I don't think there's any use in asking, every club is different, and things differ between cities. In the city I live in: 0%. In the major city an hour away from me: 0% of girls during lapdances, but closer to 80% in the VIP. But, one of my SC buddies, who is painfully shy (which can sometimes come off creepy) probably only gets a third of his strippers to let him touch her tits in the VIP, even when he gets dances with the same girls I do. So, the customer matters too -- don't believe the guys who don't SC with other guys, and who therefore have no basis of comparison, but are convinced of their theory that "all girls do the same thing for every guy for the same price"... that's just SW-style trying to fit reality into their theories.

I feel like Subra's approach above is both damn solid and most in line with mine.

This is where I think it's a good idea to post the Tucker Max article about the best way to get in a woman's pants: Earn her trust. http://thoughtcatalog.com/tucker-max/201…

I think a lot of your experience with a dancer breaks down to the initial conversation you have with her on the floor. If either of you -- you or her -- just breaks with convention and cuts to the chase about mileage in the first couple minutes of talk, it's clear one of you doesn't really care about the other's satisfaction, and it's hard to trust someone when that happens.

- For the dancer, the guy that asks about mileage that fast isn't going to care about tipping, not being too rough, either her rules or the club's rules, if she gets fired, whatever. So yeah, not a desirable customer at that point.

- For the customer, the girl who just wants to be dirty and nasty right away isn't even taking the time to think about what feels good to the guy. The ones that are real up-front and pushy strike me as the ones too desperate for cash. More than likely, these girls are either going to be a dead fish once you pay for the dance up front, or are going to do what they think works, not try and read you to see what works for you. I'm an individual, too, damn it.

A dancer who has good conversation in the beginning gives you a good feel for what she'll be like. If she's lackadaisical and disinterested, her dances will be the same. If she's flirty, fun and interested, and doesn't seem to be faking it, those dances will be fun. If you show you're smart, courteous and trustworthy, but a little freaky, she'll generally let you push boundaries, because she probably sees herself the same way. If I can sneak in a little backrub, nice and solid with a couple fingers under the shoulderblades, that usually shows I can be trusted to care about her comfort, too, which she might interpret as "good tipper" and "enjoyable customer." Often times, if she's open to that and actually likes it, she'll be open to just a lot of other touches as well. Rare exceptions, but I find they do tend to be exceptions.

I usually make it known in the conversation that I'm a good guy, considerate, polite, but with one big vice, which is why I'm at the club. My answers to a lot of common dancer questions work around that principle:

- "Have you been here before?" "Yes, but it's been a while." I am aware of the ways of the club, but I'm not a skeezy regular freak. I have self-control; but I like to get what I want. I usually up the amount of time since my last visit. If it's been four weeks, I say three months. Makes it sound like there's a reason for them to try and work hard to entice me back.

- I sometimes counter with "How long have you been working here?" Dancers with very short tenures might not know or care about the rules yet; dancers with long tenures might have their longevity because they've figured out how to work around the rules. In the middle (six months to two years) tends to be bad.

- (At a non-extras club) "What do you like to do here?" "I get dances, mostly. I'll occasionally do rooms, but I start to feel like you're just giving a middleman a cut for what two people can do on their own." I only give this answer if I'm actually considering dances. Otherwise, I say I'm just here to hang out. This makes it known that I am conscious of rules in place, as well as OTC, and have a subtle disdain for them. It also makes the dancer feel like a room can be possible with effort and allowing things to slip here and there.

- "How often do you come here?" "Eh, every couple months or so. I travel, so I end up in different places like this. It's weird how things are different from one place to another." This is where I bring up how some places have a lot of rules to protect the girls, while places like Detroit kind of let anything go. This implies that I know various clubs have different rules and that I may not be used to, or a fan of, more restrictive ones. If a girl here starts talking about how happy she is to be someplace with a lot of rules and bouncers to protect her, I kinda know the dance will suck because she's already walling me off. This is also when either I'll ask, or dancers will mention, if they've danced in other places. If I hear a girl has danced in an extras-friendly part of the world (Detroit, Miami, Texas, L.A., etc.), I perk up.

At an extras club, the conversation beforehand is just as important. You're probably paying about 5-10× more for extras than you are a simple dance, but what good is it if you don't hit it off with the dancer? Even a super hot dancer with a shitty attitude doesn't get it done for me. But if she's willing to not only do something with you, but seem like she actually likes you while doing it, then hell yeah, it's worth it.

I find that good conversation at an extras club often leads to a dancer offering up if she has a menu on her own when she wants the conversation to turn toward making money. At a place like Penthouse, they know the drill, they know it will come up eventually, and they'd rather be the one that gets the money you brought, not some other girl. If it doesn't come up, then yeah, 2/3 of the way through a dance isn't bad. By then, you know if you want more (or don't). If she says she has no menu at that point, then hey, you're only out a couple dances and you move on.

With all the cut rate airfares these days, some people in crappy club locations might want to think about skipping a trip or to so they can pay for a flight to someplace decent. Some things you just have to see to appreciate. I got my start in places where the clubs were good to great, so I know pretty quickly if a club is ok or not after walking in. If not, then the question is whether or not I feel like sticking around to see if there's a dancer I can work with to redeem the visit. This may not be much help to guys asking these questions, but a good way to up your odds of being able touch are having the dancer feel like you know what you're doing. Practice. Pick girls you're not that into (in the club or IRL) so you won't miss them if you screw something up. Ask questions.

Subraman's got a point about the club rules. There are some places where the management is just really on some shit about their rules. I had a bouncer at the Scores in Cary, NC literally sit down right across from me and stare for a song or two. I was liking the girl and her set so I just got to see her fuck with the guy for two songs. She turn would turn and do something to make him get up, then showed him enough where he'd sit back down again. Like a puppet. It was funny. My hands were down by my sides unless she moved them. This isn't magic and we aren't Jedi. Are there some places where I've had stuff go down in front of bouncers and a whole bunch of cameras trying to prevent it? Yup. But that's the exception and not the rule.

^ a lot of people don't have the flexibility to just jump on a plane and hit SCs all over the country, either:

* they have a wife and family and just can't take off whenever they want to

* may not have the funds to do it regularly, SC trips not only mean airfare but often hotel and car rental (or Uber or taxis)

* some people also don't have as much free time and may work a lot of hours or hwae to do other things that take up their time

Detroit is about a six-hour drive for me and business occasionally takes me in that direction.

But once, my SO was out of town for a weekend for work. I had some Saturday afternoon business, then was free and clear the rest of the weekend, so I scheduled a drop-in, drop-back flight to Detroit for one night of fun. Saved up a healthy amount of money to make it worthwhile. Flew out on Saturday evening, came back Sunday afternoon. Got a cheap hotel room and rental car to make OTC possible, though I didn't follow through on that piece. Made the most of the trip to Penthouse: Happy endings with two different ladies, probably both 8.5s or so, within two hours. It was like being in my own, multi-scene porno with me as the star. Massive outflow, sure, but one of the best nights of my life and worth it. Didn't even have to burn any vacation time.

If you can save up about $1K total for flight, car, room and club experience, and can spare the time, I recommend it. Not for everyone, but if you can, it's pretty sweet.

Just to follow up on my post from a few hours ago, I went to the club today so the the dancer. I started off feeing up her ass again like I did last time. A song into our dances (paid for 4 in advance, requirement to pay in advance) she started rubbing her tits on my bare chest. I realized that would be a good time to slowly move my hand closer. I was able to touch one of her tits and she didn't object. My next set was to squeeze them a little while still being discreet. She got on her knees and started titty fucking me over my pants, i used that opportunity to grab both her tits. Again she didn't object, so I started thinking maybe this was a two way contact club with the right dancer.

She got back on top of me but then a few seconds later the bouncer came over (he must have been watching the camera from the other side of the club) and politely told me to watch my hands.

I though I was being discreet, not sure how he was able to tel on the camera what I was doing. Oh well, I gave it a shot. Still can't figure out how I was able to touch the other dancer and the bouncer didn't see it.

Another possibility is perhaps the other dancer is greasing the bouncer?

Maybe you should start smartly angling for OTC if ITC is gonna have such restrictions.

I'm going to guess the part where both hands were on both tits while she was kneeling in front might have tipped the bouncer off.

@wallanon That's what I thought but I dibt thinks that's what did it. The bouncer showed up seconds after I started doing that. He had to have started walking over before I did that cause he was sitting at the other end of the club. Only other thing I can think of is they don't even allow you to touch a dancers ass cause I wasn't very subtle about that.

-->"I though I was being discreet, not sure how he was able to tel on the camera what I was doing. Oh well, I gave it a shot. Still can't figure out how I was able to touch the other dancer and the bouncer didn't see it. "

A couple of years ago, I was in the VIP with my then-ATF and somehow the conversation came around to "how the strippers use bouncers as an excuse to stop the customer from groping". She was saying sometimes just telling the customer "there's cameras, the bouncer will see" is enough. When it's NOT enough, she showed me what she does... first, she distracts the PL, usually by kneeling on his lap and burying his face in her titties... and while he's completely distracted, she turns her head, looks directly at the camera, and nods her head. Bouncer will be in a few seconds later.

Anyway, don't underestimate the possibility that all of this touching is at the girl's discretion, and the first girl was fine with it, but the second one signaled the camera. Certainly, it's a brilliant sales strategy -- rather than coming on here and complaining what a no-mileage cunt that second girl is, now you just complain the bouncer caught you.

Just another explanation. Papi's "one girl was greasing the bouncer, the other wasn't" is just as likely, and can very much make a huge impact