1st time ITC discussions: story of the clean dancer & the extras girl (long)

I've never heard of dancers going on break. Is this common?

Shadow beat me to it...dancers taking an hour break? I have seen them go sit with other girls and play on their phone for what seems like an hour but wouldn't consider this a break

No I wasn't disappointed under the circumstances. $600 at Follies of the Southwest is more than even I would pay. And she was hot, but not DS hot.

I did kind of hope to be there to witness DaOnion after he had his first ITC extras. However, he's clearly well on his way to PLdom. It's only a matter of time until he gets his dick wet. My guess is that in another couple of years DaOnion will be fucking strippers along with the best of us.

Nice story Onion

How does this new blonde spinner compare to Blair?

PM me the name please. If not I understand you want her all to yourself.

Shadow & Jay: The club we were at is really busy until 6pm and then it is pretty empty for a few hours until it gets very busy again later. Some girls at this club may go in for the busy afternoon shift, leave for the slow period, then return. Not sure. It could also be that this particular dancer only works once in a while, so she wanted to maximize her $ for the day and left for a long dinner break during the slow time.

Bavarian, Blair was hot and sweet, but a little too tall for me, so I couldn't do the reach around on her. This spinner was more perfect in my book. Just my type.

Meat, I'll pm you. I was just visiting, so I may never see her again. Fun night though.

DaOnion - All of the clubs that I know won't let a dancer leave and then come back the same day. They don't want prostitutes to come in to pick up Johns.

Interesting Shadow, did not know that. It happened to be this dancer's birthday. The DJ announced it when she was on stage and everybody wished her a happy birthday. Maybe they made an exception for her birthday, so she could have a birthday dinner or something. Not sure. Or, maybe that club has lax rules compared to other clubs. Don't know.

Good report. Where is this place? That seems like a lot of $$ for a HJ. I'm from the NE and 2.5 - 3 is probably the highest I've spent in VIP.

Shadow - at this club from what I can tell, dancers come in at different hours and leave when they want. I'm sure they have to put in a certain amount of time and pay their house fees but I know some who come in mid to late afternoon and stay until close. Others may roll in early evening and some wait until 10-11 when it's busy to come in and hustle hard until close at 2 am.

DaOnion - a good move on your part to turn her down. That price is outrageous for itc fs. There are many more lovely ladies you can bust your itc cherry to for much less.

'san_jose_gay' is an impersonation troll, so please read carefully.

SJG

French Resistance youtube.com

Way to stay strong. 3h for a handsy is way too much. Much better value at that club if you are patient. Surprised a known extras honey would qoute that much. I would have broke out laughing and im as big a PL as they come.

sp, rh, & lw: yeah, she could probably smell the inexperience on me and tried to get me to overpay. I'm a newbie, but knew that price was way too high. I could probably have negotiated her down if I had been thirstier and more eager to set something up. I agree - better deals will be available, so I'll be patient. SP, this place is out west, but she was trying to overcharge by double, from what I can tell. The NE rates you mention are probably market rates for this place too.

The Rustic Frog in Indiana was letting the girls who work a full shift take an hour break for dinner. Was happening between 7 and 9, which is their dead time.

Good call on passing on the extras. She was WAY overpriced!!! I would straight up laugh at a dancer if she told me 300 for a HJ!!!

She needs to take her nose out of the air

Like mrrock said, $300 for an HJ is ridiculous

I was at a Charlotte, NC club to meet up with a dancer with whom I had had ITC fs at another club. She told me if I wanted to get a room close by, she could take off to see me, then come back. Also, a fav at PP Greenville returned after I had contacted her to let her know I was coming in. She had already left for the day but came back. No biggie apparently...she just had to pay tip outs again I think.

If this was "Follies of Southwest" then I do know that dancers can leave and come back. I saw it happen there in my couple visits

I hope Hanna is working when I finally make it to Tootsie's for the first time. I'll tell her to "say hello to my little friend". Since I don't own a gun, she'll say "that'll be $600". Damn.

It’s not uncommon for dancers to start w/ inflated prices for VIP since most custies in SCs are often inexperienced custies that hit SCs infrequently and thus many will pay the inflated prices not knowing any better.

It’s best to more or less know the going-rate and tell a dancer how much you are willing to pay vs asking her how much - it’s your $$$ and you should be in control of how it’s spent not the dancers.

That's a good point Papi. Going into this, I knew what I was willing to spend, but I've never discussed ITC or OTC before, so I didn't know the best way to have the conversation with the dancer.

I asked her how much for different services and she came at me with her rip off prices, hoping I'd bite. When I said no, that's more than I want to spend, she then pressed me for how much money I had to spend. This is where I blew the negotiation. I told her $300 and then she tried to sell me the lowest level service for the maximum that I had to spend.

I was tired and ready to go home, so I gave up and didn't attempt to negotiate further. Plus, after 2 dances, I wasn't as into this girl as I was the first one. Anyway, in the future though, what do you veterans recommend?

Is it best to throw out an offer first or let her quote a price first and then negotiate down from there?

I usually let the dancer quote me her price. if the prices is within $100 or so of reasonable, I'll say ok. I'm not going to have a dispute over a small amount of money when it comes to fucking a cute young thing. If her price is more than $100 above what I consider reasonable, then I tell her the truth -- I do this a lot, I'm generous, but I know the going rates and I'm not going to pay anything exorbitant. Then I make a reasonable counter offer.

Sometimes the girl will want me to tell her what I'm willing to pay. If so I'll offer about 75% of what I'm willing to pay, leaving me a little room to negotiate up but not too much.

Of course the rules are different with a DS candidate. but I've posted that system elsewhere.

“… she then pressed me for how much money I had to spend …”

To me that is often a red-flag – comes across as the dancer wanting to take all you have for herself – your $$$ and how much you have it’s really none of her business – a more proper question is for her to ask “how much are you looking to spend”.

In the end – since it’s you w/ the $$$ then it’s you who should control the negotiation and set the price as long as it’s fair – it’s your $$$ - don’t give her the control.

One needs to have a basic knowledge of the going-rate and what is a fair-offer and stick to that and be willing to walk-away if she’s not content w/ a fair offer.

I’m not a good haggler and prefer to not have to do-it – I state what I believe is a fair offer and stick to that – if she thinks she’s worth more I respect that but I won’t go past what I’m comfortable paying and feel is fair – and I don’t try to low-ball her to try and eventually get to a fair price.

Thanks Papi. Yeah, she seemed like a hustler and that was a red flag for me too. I had an idea of the market rate, so in retrospect, I should have just presented her with a fair offer and see if she agreed. I think you're right that it's probably best to lead the negotiation. That's where I failed in this instance. Live and learn. Good info for the future. Thanks.

Practice makes perfect. Best night of my short sc'ing career last night. Wow. Thanks to everyone for all of their advice and being so helpful. I'll probably share the story one day, which blows this story and my LDK story out of the water. I think it's a Gawker level type of experience.

I may be seeing the girl OTC unpaid this week, so I want to see how that plays out first. Fingers crossed.

shadowcat-->" I've never heard of dancers going on break. Is this common?"

I didn't read the whole thread yet, so apologies if this has been discussed... in this area, it varies by club. I know of at least a couple of clubs that give half hour breaks, and one that gives longer breaks. The girls can (and do) leave the club premises and then come back. When I was a regular at these clubs, I'd often use these breaks to go drinking with the girls -- it's one of my favorite non-sexual things to do with strippers, get one or a group of them wasted on their breaks -- and with one girl, we'd go out to my car and have sex.

Anyway, I'm sure it varies by area and specific club policy. I can imagine why clubs wouldn't want their dancers to go off-premises: 1. you never know when/if they'll come back, 2. perhaps if the girls go have sex with customer in the parking lot, law enforcement might try to show club collusion? In some areas, breaks might be mandated by law, though.

DaOnion-->" I asked her how much for different services and she came at me with her rip off prices, hoping I'd bite. When I said no, that's more than I want to spend, she then pressed me for how much money I had to spend. This is where I blew the negotiation. I told her $300 and then she tried to sell me the lowest level service for the maximum that I had to spend."

I think she did textbook sales on you, and you just followed her script as a textbook rube. Not a criticism BTW! I don't know how many times I did that myself! Anyway, if you were buying a used car and the salesman asked, "how much are you willing to spend today", no fucking way you'd answer that question, right? The hustle there is crystal clear, just as it was with you stripper... but the fact that she was a pretty girl made you answer the question anyway!

I think you have to go with whatever negotiation strategy works for you. For me, I'm in the NEVER LET THE GIRL NAME HER PRICE camp. I take control of the negotiation (even if she doesn't realize I'm in control), I feel far more comfortable in that role. I name my price, a bit low so she can negotiate me upwards, and typically my demeanor is almost "hell, I'd pay you $1000 if I had it, you'd be worth every dime, but here's what I can pay".

I don't like to let her name her price first, because that puts her in control to start, and can generate bad feelings and worse service if I subsequently lower her price too much. I don't like to put her down or give an air of "you're just an interchangeable chick I can get sex from", because that's just not me, and again, because it can generate worse performance in the booth. Starting off by naming my own price, and treating her like I appreciate her, is what's fit with my personality and what's generated really great experiences at affordable prices, for me.

Very true and great advice Subra. I agree with that logic and also that you shouldn't put down the girl if you can't reach an agreement. Thanks.

good discussion. I probably would have benefited had i read this advice six years ago.

600 for extras in vip 300 for a hj that is exactly why i have 0 interest in ld or vip at us clubs anymore would take a hot ass latina over a blonde anyday! Im actually pissed at myself for all the money ive wasted at us clubs over the years! The only thing a us club is good for is blueballs and seperating your money from your Wallet

And most of the time when i went to us clubs i would leave disappointed because their wasn't any latinas

I don’t understand.

I don’t know what the club atmosphere is, but I get the impression that it’s high volume busy club, if they allow a dancer to walk in an out as she pleases.

So let’s say in a one hour period, a popular and good looking dancer (especially if white and blond) can easily pull off stacking dances on the floor.

From here on out, I’m doing math to set up an opportunity cost model for her.

Here are the assumptions. I did my best to have realistic numbers. Please tell me if I do not.

*She averages stacking 4 dances per customer. *She spends 2 songs of chit chat between each customer. *A song averages 3.5 minutes

That means within six songs, or 21 minutes, she gets $80.

Within an hour she gets a little less than $240. We will assign her hourly floor time at $230 for no extras. Or $115 for a half hour.

(Of course the number above isn’t the true hourly rate, since it doesn’t factor additional time spent because of customers saying no to dances. However, the rejection rate would have been been even higher if she was only trying to hustle VIP. So if anything, I am downplaying her opportunity cost here.)

Idk what VIP time block you were looking at, but a $100 time block for a hand job seems like it would be undercutting herself for an equivalent time floor dances only.

I’m not going to say how much I used to charge back when I was more open to extras. But her rates would have been more favorable than mine in terms of services done. And nobody ever complained to me about those prices. (Though to be fair I had a tendency to appeal GFE style, which puts worth in a fuzzy territory. That and I was low volume anyways.)

So, she might just charge that because people happily pay it.

looks and attitude. that is what really scores fer me.