Is there really much difference in pimpin and the SC business?

Wise Guy's last post really cracked me up! Some men do appear to get more excited over a game than over a woman, at least for a few hours. There is all the difference in the world between going to bed with a stranger for money handed over to a pimp, versus dancing in a safe public venue where touching is not allowed. Granted, both pimps and SC owners make their living off the sexuality of beautiful women. But this has gone on since the beginning of time, and will continue long after we have all shuffled off this mortal coil. Hey, it's better than in some countries where the men buy a wife for some cattle to her father!

OH MY GOD. my eyes are bleeding and my brain hurts from reading all that crap. Guys, bottom line. strip clubs are just bars where sometimes good looking women remove most or all of their clothing for monetary tips. nothing more, nothing less. let the buyer beware. one person's list of "rules" are another person's toilet paper. if you want to go to a strip club...go. if you want to spend your hard earned money.... spend it. its YOUR choice.

(Just having some innocent fun Jpac73)

All male sports fans are tricks!!!!!

First of all, I am not trying to insult all "sports players" but after watching this special about the Pimping business the other week I have to ask myself how much of a difference is that between the "professional sports" business? The Pimp & the Prostitute refer to their male clients as "tricks". They have no respect for these guys they just want the money. The team owner can be comnpared(In a odd way) to a Pimp. He gets a percentage of the money the "players" generate plus the "player" or "players" are working for him. The "players" main task is to win games to generate money from the fans. I don't consider myself to be a trick but in a way I am sort of being one by paying money for beer, nachos and cable though it might not be actual intercourse but there is sexual gratification involved when we when a game. I mean I don't want to think of sports as being a "whore" or anything, I consider some of the players traded to be friends but that documentary really got me to thinking am I lowering my standards by paying for ESPN?

Yeah maybe the differences do outweight the similarities. All of what Veracious posted isn't totally true. Dancers are just like people here in the realworld. You have some obnoxious dancers who think they are the world and the you have the others that are nice. If anyone feels that a dancer is taking advantage of them leave them alone or getup and leave that club. One time I was at a fancy stripclub and one of the dancers that was talking to mentioned that some guys spend over a $1,000 dollars in the VIP rooms. I then asked do you think those guys are stupid. She replied I don't think they are stupid but just stupid in how they spend their money. I just want to say I think it all depends on the person. You can't sterotype all strippers/dancers just like you can't sterotype all Blacks & Mexicans.

jpac73: Why don't you ask this question to some of the dancers you like, say, right after you pay them.

This topic has been raised before and I really don't see the comparison. Pimps coerce, threaten and sometimes beat defensless women into fucking strangers for money and then handing most of it over to them. Dancers go to work of their own free will and, in exchange for being allowed to earn an honest and legal living, pay the CLUB a small fee and tip-outs. The differences are far geater than the similarities.

All women do it for the money.

Many of the Newbie Rules apply to Jpac73's comments. Here they are again:

Message FOR NEWBIES (and, unfortunately, for some naive veterans as well) – that is, for those guys who are about to go to a strip club for the first time there are some things you need to know. Some on this Board will attack these rules, but they either make their living in strip clubs and/or are junky customers – that is, pathetic losers hopelessly addicted to strip clubs. Some men can’t create satisfying relationships with women without buying their female companionship – it’s disgusting, but true. Others will claim I’ve been “burned” by a stripper – NOT TRUE! All monies I have paid strippers have been for clear-cut R-rated services, clearly negotiated ahead of time – and not a penny more. I caught on to the stripper MO very early, but some of my friends didn’t – they were not so lucky. BUT, they became believers of the RULES FOR NEWBIES, after they got burned.

Ignore the detractors of the NEWBIE RULES, because they don’t have YOUR BEST INTERESTS in mind. Know, understand, and be guided by these rules and, while you’re in the strip club, you will be in control of your emotions and money at all times. With the NEWBIE RULES you will be OK!!

1st RULE) STRIPPERS ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN YOUR MONEY. With that single purpose some practice their trade with some sensitivity, but many (THE GREEDY ONES AND FOR WHO THESE RULES ARE ABOUT) couldn’t care less about your feelings. It’s very hard to tell the difference between the two types; since, many strippers are well-practiced con artists. To keep you buying more and more lap dances, many will feign or insinuate romantic interest in you. For this act, they use the glorified euphemistic term -- “fantasy.” They “believe” you actually want this “fantasy,” and they do it “TO OWN YOU” as a customer - that is, to get all your business and money. DON’T BELIEVE OR FALL FOR THE COME-HITHER BULLSHIT.

Lovesick, self-deluded men desperately want to believe this “fantasy,” but it is important that it is extremely rare (essentially unheard of) for strippers to have a significant romantic hook-up with any customer. Likewise, don’t try to hustle a stripper; because, more likely, you’ll be the one who gets hustled, when she gets into you head and starts asking you for help with the rent, to buy dresses, to get her a car stereo, cover car payments, etc. IF MONEY IS NEEDED TO MAKE THE RELATIONSHIP WORK, THE RELATIONSHIP IS BULLSHIT – GET OUT ASAP. Don’t be naïve enough to think you’re going to be different, become a boyfriend, and/or get laid – you won’t – YOU’LL JUST BECOME ANOTHER ONE OF HER VICTIMS! YOU CANNOT BUY LOVE WITH MONEY OR COMPLIMENTS – don’t even try!!

Strippers deal with dozens of men everyday – they’re experts at the stripper game!! The bottom-line is that they are not interested in you as a friend or boyfriend – YOU’RE ONLY AN INCOME SOURCE. Don’t put strippers onto a pedestal. The more a customer worships and idealizes a stripper, the more the stripper will think he’s a FOOL and mock him behind his back. Indeed, THE CUSTOMER WHO FALLS FOR THIS CRAP IS LETTING HIS NEEDINESS, LUST (“ENGORGED DICK & ISCHEMIC DYSFUNCTIONAL BRAIN”), AND OVER-INFLATED EGO OVERPOWER HIS GOOD SENSE. Any customer who allows himself to become a CHUMP deserves to be fleeced! – especially, if the customer has read these rules.

2nd RULE) Don’t feel obligated to pay strippers anything, except maybe a dollar tip, after their stage strip. Strippers are hardly dancers in the true sense. Many in the industry will promote the idea that taking off one’s clothes in a dark bar filled with swollen prostates automatically qualifies one as an artist, or at least a sex worker, rather than a stripper or, heaven forbid, a R-RATED HOOKER. Obviously, taking off your clothes doesn’t make you an artist any more than taking a shit does. Sure, I realize that even a sanitation worker is capable of performing his job with some measure of grace and nobility -- but he’s still a trash man [whoops, sorry a “sanitation engineer”]. Likewise, you can pick your nose with a certain degree of style and finesse -- but you’re still picking your nose (at least wipe the little “treasures” on a handkerchief).

If you decide on buying lap dances, wait for the specific stripper you find attractive. Then, if she gives you satisfying and entertaining dances, continue; but otherwise, if things are not going well, stop ASAP. MAKE HER EARN HER PAY! – she’s working for you! You don’t have to tip. Except for the lap dances she performed for you, you owe her nothing. Know that she believes she owes you nothing beyond what you’re buying. Again, do not put strippers on a pedestal; IT IS HIGHLY LIKELY SHE ALREADY THINKS YOU’RE A SOMEWHAT VULGAR, LOW-LIFE NERDY GEEK ANYWAY -- OTHERWISE, WHY ARE YOU IN A STRIP CLUB BUYING COMPANIONSHIP? Also, keep close track of the number of lap dances, because SOME STRIPPERS WILL OVER CHARGE YOU. Keep control of your wallet at all times.

Women, who strip, have debased their natural talents and sell sexual favors for money, and meet the dictionary definition of prostitute. The proper customer attitude in dealing with them is to consider them as R-rated providers (prostitutes), wherein all interactions are determined by an exchange of money and, thus, negotiated for a price. Strippers have nothing else to offer customers – IN A STRIP CLUB EVERYTHING IS A SHORT-LIVED, SUPERFICIAL CROCK-OF-SHIT! It’s all about money, and it’s not going to be different for you.

3rd RULE) Don’t believe what strippers tell you, THEY ROUTINELY LIE, LIE, AND LIE; and then, turn around and LIE, LIE, AND LIE some more. (If you don’t believe this, see note below.) This is done for two main reasons. First, strippers are paranoid of stalkers and don’t want to reveal potentially exploitable details regarding where they live, go to school, etc. Second, OVER 90% HAVE BOYFRIENDS, HUSBANDS, AND/OR CHILDREN; and, if you find out they are not available, they believe it will spoil the so-called “fantasy” for you and decrease your interest in them and their profit. They are correct; many guys are turned-off by this. Thus, expect strippers to lie about their real name, where they live, where they go to school, their family/social lives, their future plans, and whether they are already romantically involved. Expect that they will not wear their wedding rings.

[Note: Quote from DDDancer (Colorado stripper)…"How do you refrain from calling a spade a spade? I don’t like the strong word LIE, but it is what we do. Our managers encourage us to. They coach us to have alternate identities to make us more interesting. Some of us are interesting anyway, so it’s a simple task, but other girls will make up going to collage, or being poets, hairstylists, peace corp. volunteers, etc., cause sitting at home all day until it’s time to work is not very interesting to a guy. They want a pretty picture of everything that surrounds you to build in their head."]

4th RULE) OFTEN, STRIPPERS ARE NOT NICE PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY IN REGARDS TO THEIR TREATMENT OF YOU – THE CUSTOMER! In their lives, as a customer, you will be placed in a special category of person. Just as prostitutes hate their “Johns,” strippers often resent and disdain their customers (yes, you’re a form of “John” too) -- who they don’t trust, don’t like, or find unattractive. Although they’ll never admit to it, MANY RESENT and DESPISE THEMSELVES FOR WHAT THEY MUST DO FOR YOU TO MAKE THEIR MONEY (e.g., expose their crotch in public, smell you ass, and rub your dick), AND THEY (NATURALLY) ASSOCIATE OR PROJECT THAT RESENTMENT and CONTEMPT ONTO YOU, THE CUSTOMER (if you don’t believe this, see NOTE #1 below). Some of the most mean-spirited, easily angered, vitriolic, and defensive people I’ve ever encountered have been strippers. DON’T EXPECT that they will look out for your feelings or best interests -- they won’t!

In fact, strippers often don’t like or trust other strippers. They are competitive and very catty with each other. STRIPPERS ROUTINELY BAD-MOUTH EACH OTHER. Many refuse to associate with other strippers; and, many will report that 80 to 90% of the other strippers have serious emotional and other “issues,” which strippers believe make them poor choices as romantic partners. Many strippers lead a certain “life style” characterized by abundant “partying,” which includes drug use and promiscuity with both sexes (bisexual activities are common among strippers)(see NOTE #2 below).

Moreover, it is interesting that many have inflated self images, consider themselves bona fide players (playettes), and very desirable beauties (yes, they consider themselves real girlfriend “catches”). BUT, YOU WILL FIND A BETTER CUT OF HUMANITY ALMOST ANYWHERE ELSE -- EVEN IN BARS! The vast majority of strippers are white trash with minimal job skills and even less character. Moreover, strippers are often self-centered, high maintenance people (some are bona fide or psychopaths). Go elsewhere to find your serious romantic interests. Indeed, stripping is a lazy, cope-out type of occupation – just as the dictionary points out -- another form of prostitution.

[Note #1: This is another very telling comment posted on the TUSCL Board by an anonymous stripper, and it reflects the negative attitude some strippers have toward customers. Here it is, "…but don't you know what people think of men who go to strip clubs? - PATHETIC and forever UNDESIRABLE! No woman has or will ever want you. Not physically, not emotionally, not spiritually, nothing - No one wants you. You have to pay for attention. You have to pay for conversation, and you have to pay to be touched or to touch. You have to pay for basic human experiences. You have to pay money, because nothing about you merits it besides money. A few, some, many, most (whichever way you want to look at it) strippers are using the money to better themselves and their families. They take something negative (you and your $$) and turn it into something useful and positive. What do you do with your strip club experience? NOTHING! Because that is all you are, all you have, all you will ever have – nothing. You all want us - you need us - us as people. Whether it is our bodies or our time, it is still us you want. We want money not you. Money is not part of you, it is something you have - it is a thing. No one wants you because of you."

Furthermore, here are the findings from a recent study, which can be accessed on the internet at Strip Clubs According to Strippers: Exposing Workplace Sexual Violence by Ó’Kelly Holsopple, 1998, (this can be accessed on the internet at http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/str… ….”The women in this study condemn the men associated with stripping and the impact stripping has on them as the worst parts of stripping. Women do not like the way customers treat them (Thompson and Harred 1992). Furthermore they say they do not like talking to customers, asking men for money, and resent having to have to deal with them at all. They find customers irritating because they are drunk and have negative attitudes towards women. Women characterize customers as scum, psycho mama’s boys, rapists and child molesters, old perverted men, idiots, assholes, and pigs. Strippers are largely disgusted by customers and describe them as pitiful and pathetic, stupid and ignorant, sick, controlling and abusive. "They smell so sour, they breathe very heavy and kind of wheeze when women are near." "They are weak abusers who have to subordinate women and girls to feel like a man." "I see my dad. They’re old enough to be my father." "Yuck. I am repulsed by the sight, sound, smell, and touch of them." "I’m embarrassed for them." The women offer insightful evaluations of strip club customers. They say that these men do not know how to communicate. Moreover, they perceive that customers are out of control, have power and abuse problems, and will do anything to degrade women because they hate women. Strippers also state that customers want a free show and think women are cheap. In contrast, a few women positively perceived some customers as nice and added they are thankful to those who tip well….Clearly strippers’ attitudes about men are impacted by the activities in strip clubs. Women say they don’t like men and men are worthless. Likewise women believe stripping inhibits their ability to be involved in a normal relationship. "It affects your lovelife and feelings about men." "Nice boyfriends can’t handle it." "Too large a percentage of men fit into category of customer and I do not want to hate men.")

[NOTE #2: Question posed to DDDancer by poster calling himself Mouse, “I want to be sure we're on the same wavelength with this last issue. By libertine I mean a person who is unrestrained by convention or morality. This is something beyond being politically liberal. Let me rephrase the question - do you believe exotic dancers are more likely than the average women to experiment (i.e., in many things, not just sex), because they are essentially less restrained by convention or morality (i.e., as it's defined by current polite society)?

DDDancer’s response, “OH! My answer is yes! -- they dared to get on the stage to begin with, and most would probably be more comfortable with experimenting with lifestyles. Morality conforms to fit the physiological needs of the bearer. You wouldn't believe how many girls I know with different perspectives of what the Bible means to them, but the one thing that is common is they twist the meaning to whatever suits them. Dancers are very spontaneous people, who desire the opposite, but while in the business, spontaneity is really the only way to conform to customers to get the money from them, so of course it would overlap into their normal life at times. I also think most dancers would make excellent entrepreneurs, but not so good in business, unless properly trained or educated.”

Posted comment by “Darling Nikki” (stripper in Southern California) on Monday, October 20, 2003: ”Every girl at Cheetahs was a dirty dancer, whether they wanted to be or not. You could not make money unless there was some touching in your dances and that was breaking the law. No one has the right to bash Alexandria for that or any other girl.

I do agree about the drug use – a lot of girls use drugs. Most of them use it while at work. I can’t think of one stripper that hasn’t used drugs. Oh Well, that’s the life -- you have to have some experiences and live a little.”

An anonymous poster responded (on Monday, October 20, 2003), “Thanks for the honesty!! Nikki, we admire your ability to tell the truth about the extensive drug use among strippers -- many, many (including the "super hotties" we're all reluctant to mention) have been high while we've been in buying dances. It was obvious. You can always tell when they’re on drugs, because something's not quite right in their eyes and behavior.”]

5th RULE) DON’T TELL STRIPPERS ANYTHING PERSONAL ABOUT YOURSELF. It’s none of their damn business, and they are likely to use personal information against you. Don’t bother giving them your business card, because they will throw it away or use it to hurt you later. Also, DON’T SHARE YOUR OPINIONS OF OTHER STRIPPERS WITH STRIPPERS, BECAUSE THEY WILL TELL THE OTHER STRIPPERS WHAT YOU SAID. Strippers talk, talk, and TALK, and then turn around and talk, talk, and TALK some more!

6th RULE) People will treat you the same way they treat themselves and those around them. Look at how strippers debase - R-rated prostitute - themselves for money (e.g., expose themselves, rub dicks, smell crotches, and lie routinely), and they will degrade you likewise! DON’T THINK YOU WILL BE SPECIAL -- YOU WON’T BE SPECIAL, JUST ANOTHER ONE OF THEIR VICTIMS!! To many strippers, customers are hardly considered human, but rather as pathetic mindless animals (VICTIMS OR MARKS) to be fleeced of their money. In fact, strippers like to refer to customers as regulars in love (RILs), pathetic losers (PLs), and/or automatic teller machines (ATMs). Don’t let them turn you into a RIL, PL, or ATM.

FOR GOD’S SAKE, MAN! -- MAINTAIN SOME PRIDE, DIGNITY, AND SELF-RESPECT!! Don’t become just another one of their victims.

7th RULE) Finally, don’t spend money on strippers; it’s a waste of your hard-earned resources. If you do, it’s equal to flushing your money down the toilet. Don’t become a strip-club junky!! Spend your money on yourself (or your family) for self-improvement and greater life enjoyment -- your money will pay MUCH greater dividends that way!! Everything you can buy in a strip club can be obtained ESSENTIALLY FREE OUTSIDE of strip clubs! – YES, EVERYTHING!! YOU CAN LIVE EXTREMELY WELL WITHOUT STRIPPERS AND PROSTITUTES IN YOUR LIFE! -- BELIEVE IT and DO IT!!

I've wondered if any exchange of goods etc. in exchange for sexual services might be considered some form of prostition. If that's true I bet a large percentage of the adult population has engaged in this act. Ever bought your wife jewelry or something special as a reward for something sexual? Ever paid for dinner and a movie etc. expecting sex from a girlfriend? Even if you're not sure it's going to happen, I doubt the girlfriend would give the guy's desired end result without some sort of payment up front and first. Since almost all guys are mainly interested in sex, you could argue all the money we spend on girlfriends and wives are to achieve satisfaction in the bedroom and we do that by making the opposite sex happy. Unless you got a girlfriend that doesn't want anything except sex. Is a husband that pays a wife for blowjobs with jewelry nothing but a legalized form of prostition? It's easy to make simple comparisons and say something like stripclubs are like pimping. One could also argue that almost everyone engages in prostition giving away goods or services in exchange for and/or hope of getting sexual services. I'm glad the laws aren't that vague or our jails would overflow.