This subject has been discussed some and I have also done much googling for it on Stripper Web. It is discussed there.
DFKing is the key to moving strip club experiences from the realm of "extras", to the realm of total surrender and mind blowing experiences.
Women have no resistance to DFKing. Once it starts, they aren't going to be holding anything back. This is exactly the reason that they often try to set up situations so that they will not be doing it.
Having much experience with the store front AMPs in Santa Clara County CA of decades back, I can say that most of the sessions were just people who wanted HJ. It was service performed upon them.
FS could be available, but it was not done that well if there was no DFKing. So, if you could play up to a girl a bit and stage the situation right and get her DFKing, then she would end up on the floor of the session room with you giving up her everything in a mind blowing encounter that neither party would ever forget.
As those AMPs with the young pretty girls vanished and were replaced by AAMPs operated with phone appointments and the internet, establishing the DFK standard made all the difference. Because of that, these were no longer massage sessions, they had turned into very high quality escort sessions. The best trained of the women would start DFKing with the customer right by the front door, before asking for the money. Doing it this way, they lost very few.
Then they could do a first pop, then maybe massage or talking or cuddling, and more DFKing, and then a second pop. It is different doing the second pop with the girl because she plays a bigger role in making it happen.
One who was from Singapore and had worked there and in the UK, said that in those places it was not like this. "This is real." "These guys actually want to have a girl friend for 60min." She also admitted that the work was physically demanding. More than anything, it is their own muscle contractions which tire them out.
Credit should go to the San Francisco Red Book with its explicit terminology and individual provider reviews, and to the Asian American Community in the High Tech Sector that mediated with the Asian operators who made this type of escort industry work.
So you ask about DFKing in the VIP room. I don't see that there should be any reason to wait until you get her into the VIP room. Rather, the more you can fraternize with her, before going in the VIP room, the better. It will make it easier for her if she feels that she knows you. Try to get her to accept lap sitting tips if you can, to prolong the preliminaries in the main room. Try to talk with her as much as possible, and try to get her to engage in open tongue kissing, and then finally into full DFKing. If you can do this with her, then the VIP session will be phenomenal.
I don't know how many people are actually doing this though. They have not wanted to talk about it. Unless their is a really strong house rule against it, I believe it should be possible. If there is a "Women's Rule" prohibiting it, then usually those types of rules don't hold up.
What I read in a travel and culture book about Mexico is that they just laugh at the American types of strip clubs. They can't see why anyone would want to do it that way. When they like a stripper, the first thing they do is kiss her.
Now, that book was written for a general audience. They would not have wanted to get too graphic about their own country's strip clubs. I can see that with just a group of guys getting silly, they might just kiss a stripper and it would be just an innocent Public Display of Affection.
But I can also see that it could be done so as to show the girl and everybody that the guy is at that moment going to walk her down the hall to a session room.
From what I have read and seen in some videos, it looks like in the TJ Hong Kong Bar, they just start climbing on to your lap, and pushing their tits into you face, and nuzzling and letting you talk to them, and then pushing their tongue into your mouth.
If you sit down at the stage to watch one girl, then another one will sit on the drink area in front of you, and start climbing onto you this way. I gather that the dancer on the stage is being paid by the house to do her set, otherwise she would be doing the same thing with you and then letting you lift her clear of the stage.
[view link] is still down. There were many reviews of some of the most notorious black strip clubs scattered across the country. The reviews would often start by saying, "This is not a strip club." Then they would describe how the black girls will just come up and sit on your lap and start kissing your neck and nibbling on your ear, and letting you talk to them. They try to get you to start making out with them, before leading you to a large collective VIP room for FS.
I have also read about black girls and this lap sitting and making out in a place which probably does not do FS-ITC. Trying to find out more.
In some SF style clubs, the girl will conclude her stage set by inviting a second girl onto stage. Usually this is mostly open tongue kissing. They are showing you that they control the erotic realm. It creates a powerful sensation to watch them doing this live.
They are always kissing women customers open tongue and full DFK.
I love the way strippers do their hair and makeup. What I love most about it is when I get to be the one who messes up their hair and makeup.
I am getting the impression that some dancers will do this sort of girl on top VIP Room FS-ITC, and they don't even consider that to be sex.
It has to be the primal scene of what happens when virgins stray too far from the tribal clearing. They have to be giving it up on the floor of the VIP Room with you.
When I do them this way, their face will end up looking a lot like the way they tried to make it look by applying makeup.
So since they need to otherwise stay presentable, I would keep it at open tongue kissing, and only move to full DFKing when we are both sure we will be going to the VIP room. I think this way is fair and reasonable.
I had suggested before that someone who might be going to San Francisco's Crazy Horse might try to get a dancer to engage with him in open tongue kissing when he is standing at her stage.
This is clearly the way it has to go. But people have not been very forthcoming in sharing such accounts on this forum. I am hoping that some people who have done it this way, or at least tried to, will be willing to talk about it.
SJG
Ramble On
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Thank you gawker. Could you give us some idea how often this works, and if it is a dancer to dancer variation or club to club, and if it might be day shift and not night shift?
Totally depends on the club. I'd bet more dayshift do it than night shift.
Out of every dancer in Detroit I have had dances with (probably more than 20) I have only had 1 not offer it after getting more than one dance.
I have been to several Pittsburgh clubs recently and I probably have gotten dances by 6 different dancers, only 1 came close to dfk, I think she wanted to but was holding back and I wasn't going to push.
In New York I went to a club (known for extras) this past winter, received full service but no dfk...found that kinda odd, I usually thought it was part of the package!
San Jose Guy - my offhand comment would need to be clarified. I usually only go VIP with regulars. Outside of VIP at my favorite club kissing is usually a hug and quick peck on the lips. During lap dances, a slightly more intimate kiss might occasionally occur, however dfk'ing is usually reserved for total privacy in the VIP room. Two weeks ago I took a dancer to VIP on the first night I met her. She threw a lip lock on me before the waitress had left and had our tongues intertwined in seconds. She was nude in less than a minute and pulled my head to her breasts as she started massaging my dick. We quickly negotiated price and my dick was in her mouth then she initiated 69. She's a real tight spinner and as she spread her legs her asshole was right there. I enjoyed DATY and she pushed my head under so l
That I licked and kissed around her ass. I tried two in the pink and one in the stink and she was ecstatic. After I came in her mouth she swallowed all and then started the kissing again, which caused me some hesitation, but; in the heat of battle...
I also know some dancers who will suck my dick but not kiss at all. I asked one once and she said, "it's too intimate". While I laughed at the apparent incongruity, it dawned on me, that to her sucking a cock was just another cock, but kissing was far more personal.. I've never noticed a pattern of day vs night. Drug use is quite prevalent with "extra" girls and while stoned most will do whatever it takes to get your money.
"Its gotten to the point that BJs are so common, that I crave dancers that will do DFK."
My experience is the same. Hard to believe but I can often get a blow job more easily than I can find a girl willing to kiss intimately.
The only dancer who ever kissed me on the lips is my ATF; it was at the club and really surprised me as it was our first kiss. I've had some nipple sucking from various dancers but no other kisses. I don't go to extras clubs however, where such things are common.
Sunday my champagne room experience included oral both ways and deep tongue kissing. Except for the money and the fact we're not a couple it was no different than 45 minutes of sex with the wife, although to be fair no one does bbbjcim like the missus. The counterclockwise swirl is a keeper.
There is no such thing as a civilian girl who does not like to be kissed, or who would end up doing consensual FS, while still refusing to kiss.
There are lots of situations where it is possible just to walk up and kiss a girl in public. In Fantasy Role Playing Games its a situation calling for a rolling a 12 sided die, the Reaction Role. In real life it mostly just depends on how you do it, and on her perception of the people and the situation, and of why you are doing it. If she understands that you are doing it because you like her, then that can be okay.
In women's erotica like the Herotica Series edited by Suzy Bright, or Nancy J. Friday's My Secret Garden, DFK is the point of no return. Once the woman does that, she is going to be getting her brains fucked out very soon.
There are some discussions on another thread of time someone spent with a girl in the VIP room, and then of going with her to a motel. She said that she had not had sex in 6 months. Then she initiated and expertly executed the standard type of girl on top FS which they use in the VIP room.
This is also the usual way for the girls in our local Korean 10 day house circuit.
I don't think the strippers who do it that way for FS-ITC even consider that as sex. They see it as just another level of extra, kind of like dry humping for an "LDK". Sure they get themselves off too, and they are very good at this. But there is zero surrender in it.
On stripper web they were really pissed at a dancer who was going around DFKing with anyone who sat at her stage and gave her $1. I think really she would do it with anyone who gave her $1, but she was just starting with those who had tipped at her last stage set.
On stripper web they were pissed about this.
I would imagine that that dancer was probably spending most of her time on her back on the floor of the VIP Room, and this was what was pissing the others off. She was getting all the money, and making it impossible to work there for those unwilling to engage in real sex.
I was in a club, supposedly no touching in the main room or the VIP room. One girl was engaging in moderate DFKing with anyone who tipped her $1 when she was on stage. She was doing it nicely.
Now true, this club was going to be closed in about a year because the city was tearing the building down, and so there was no longer any more interest in enforcing the rules.
If you wanted her to come sit on your lap and do more DKFing, that probably would have been alright with her. You could give her sitting tips and there would be no house cut. Probably she would go for FOV, if not also FIV. Also, as other people would be seeing this, I am sure she would be kept busy.
Now what would happen if someone took her into the VIP room would be another story. There had used to be very little touching. But setting it up that way, it would be hard to contain. I think it would go to FS on the floor.
They can say that there is no kissing allowed in a strip club. But unless it is a strict no touching of any kind at all rule, then that is hard to justify or enforce.
You can kiss a girl all day out on the sidewalk in front of the club. So why not inside?
Sometimes they will say, "Its the women's rule". Well those kinds of rules usually don't hold up very well because women always divide themselves into good girls and bad girls. This is what I was seeing on stripper web, as they were trying to circle the wagons. So the way then to deal with them is to play the two groups against each other. So I would say, just find the girl who is happy to DFK with you, before even talking about the VIP room with any of them. Don't discuss it with them, just do it. Do it nicely too. Let it start out playfully and as part of getting to know her.
But if people are doing it this way, then there won't be anymore limits on what goes on in the VIP room. The girl is certainly not going to enforcing any limits.
When dancers want to get an OTC set up for the end of their shift, what I have seen is that they start aggressively DFKing. It looks like it is just for $1. But that is just a gimmick. They do it because they want an adventure.
gawker, some civilians don't want their own DATY juices transferred back into their mouths by kissing. But more sexually radical girls, like the dancer you were describing don't seem to care. She didn't seem to care about doing the same thing to you either. Hee Hee Hee.
SJG
gawker,
Thank you for your detailed account of your VIP experience. Recently on another thread we have been talking about the idea of "Test Driving" dancers before going into the VIP room with them.
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My own view is that DFKing is one of the most important components of this test drive, and further, that there is no reason for waiting until you have her in the VIP room or some other pay per song area, before trying this.
If you don't mind I am curious about your account:
1. I assume this was your first substantial engagement with this dancer, and that you had no real rapport built with her before going into the VIP room with her. Are you known at this club. Could other dancers have fixed it for you with her?
2. If you did start trying various gentle ways to get dancers to open tongue kiss or DFK with you, what do you think would happen? There are all sorts of gentle ways of doing this, without surprising them or letting them feel that their movements are restricted.
3. At the club you were at, do you think FS was being practiced regularly and do you think this girl you danced with was accustomed to doing that?
4. What she did do was quite remarkable. But would you rather have gotten into a situation with her where you could have led it? FS with enough space to make graceful position changes would have been nice. Otherwise just a basic makeout session with FOV / FIV would have been nice. Would you have liked this better than letting her perform her acrobatics on you? Do you think she would have gone for this? It would mean more surrender and likely a deeper emotional impact upon her.
5. People have been posting about VIP room time.
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The net is full of very negative reviews of strip clubs written by people being threatened with violence if they don't pay more money. I find these troubling. With the clubs you go to, do you have to tip out bouncers, pay a skip fee, or have to tip out waitresses or have trouble with them bothering you during the middle of a VIP session? Who watches the time and will they let you go over and then try to collect?
Thanks,
SJG
Don't know how I missed this discussion earlier. I may have had it confused with a similar discussion.
I pick an attractive dancer out of the lineup and start tipping her heavy. $2's Several times per song or $5's several times per song at the stage if I really want her or am lusting after her. That gets her attention and she will come over and start talking to me at my table in a darker area next to the wall. When she sits down with me I start telling her how hot she is and how beautiful she is and how bad I want her and need her. I start with hand holding and kisses on the cheek then very quickly start kissing her up and down her neck. Then it's pecks on the lips which very quickly moves into DFK with Simultaneous caressing of the thighs under the table. After about 3 or 4 minutes my hand moves to the "y" where I start playing with the clit. I do not try any thin more out front. After several minutes we go to vip together and I start all over again in vip playing with the clit and DFKing. By then she wants my dick bad and it's all over but the mad passionate love I Make with her there. I make love to her like she was my girlfriend with DFK DATY kissing her all over her body and continually telling her how good a fuck she is an how hot she is.
I want a GFE with every dancer I select and I try to continue that outside the club with OTC at there house or my hotel. If it's not a true GFE I don't want it. To me this is much more fun much more satisfying.
I've kissed/sucked the nipples of several dances during just regular lap dances. Most of them told me to suck their tits, a couple I asked.
My ATF has kissed me in the VIP. It surprised me, I've never had a stripper kiss me before. She actually kissed me on the lips several times during the VIP time.
This was on my last visit with her, I already can't wait to see her again.
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