Hypothetically Speaking...

davids, if you insist on the casino analogy, and you completely missed the point of that analogy, I'll give you one. You are the guy who is sure there is a sure-fire system that nobody has ever thought of before, all you need to do is perfect it, so you go in working on this system that will pay off big in the future. You look with utter disdain at all the fools who aren't smart enough to use your system, 'cause they're just suckers. The casino is ripping them off because no matter if they win, lose, are happy, or sad, they didn't leave with a million dollars, therefore they failed.

davids. One more time. I am skeptical of your method. If you enjoy your visits, fine. I don't share your goals and I would not enjoy a visit to a club if I employed your method, therefore I will not do so. I would like to be able to converse with other posters about the way we wish to enjoy our time in clubs without your constant declarations that we are losers, in denial, or just plain stupid for not sharing your goals. I don't know how I can make it any more clear. In addition, for those newer to the board I think it is perfectly reasonable to let them know your advice is controversial, to say the least, among the bulk of the regular club goers and vets on the board.

chandler: Huh?

AN: What on earth makes you think I don't have fun even if I don't score? Does one have to win every chess game he plays to have fun overall? Because chess is more a thinking man's game than the lottery (which many here compare the chance of getting a date/sex/friendship with a stripper with) does that mean the chess players don't have fun? (I would argue for some chess is going to be more fun than the lottery exactly for the reason that it requires effort.)

I like the casino analogy you presented earlier: Are the slot machine players having more fun than the intent card counter or poker shark (who may not be pros and just doing it for recreation).

Maybe what you are really trying to ask me here is: what makes you think that card counters and poker sharks have the right to look down on slot machine and roulette players?

Or maybe you think I am like someone who thinks they can develop a system to beat an unbeatable house game: like craps?

davids: If anything, I may have said you SHOULD go to a strip club, after one of your posts that made you look like you don't know the first thing about what goes on there.

davids, I don't know or really care how often you meet with success, although my guess would be rarely. My point, the one I keep stating explicityl and you keep missing, is that you have outlined a method that makes going to a club more of a job than a fun little diversion. Going in to work on getting dates by the method you endorse seems to preclude doing most of the things most people want to do in clubs, like get dances.

AN: That's a reasonable post.

But how often do you think that I think that I will be succesful? Sex or dating or being close friends with one stripper a decade? Two a night (from the same club). Sex with one stripper for every seven hours I spend interacting with strippers? Just to make it more cost effective than paying outright and valuing my time at $xx.xx/hr?

Just to increase the odds from if I was a paying nice guy customer (and oh could I do that one to perfection). (Reading various boards it seems that such customers average about one or two serious or sexual relationship or friendship per decade. )

I don't even know the answer to this question myself.

davids, on many occasions you have stated your goal is to date strippers, to get OTC sex for free. I would assume your short term expectations are to advance toward that goal. What mileposts you set are up to you. I would further assume that your long term expectation is success at dating strippers and getting sex OTC for free. I don't think that is a poor assumption based on your posts. I don't think you have exactly made a secret of these goals, and the expectations, unless you assume you will fail, would naturally follow from those goals.

AN: What exactly are my expectations? To go in and get at least a phone number ever night? One date a night? Sex with two strippers a night. Just to make friends. Just to be socialable and laugh.

Tell you what: employee a strawman here since you don't know: Pick the one that is easiest to argue against (a new stripper threesome every night). Ascribe the position to me and then trash it and hope everyone just goes along with it.

I've never told you not to go, I am just a bit skeptical you or anyone going in with your expectations employing your methods will have a good time. If you enjoy it, good for you. I know I don't want to go to a club unless I can have some fun. Fun to me means dances and spending money to get them.

AN: Well that is a different tune than when you, shadowcat, and chandler told me not to go to strip clubs at all.

davids, once again you miss a vital point. You are perfectly entitled to set whatever goals you wish and use whatever methods you choose to achieve them. We have no obligation to share your goals, approve of your methods, or remain silent when you rant that we are all losers and in denial because we don't share them. Good luck with your plan, just let us, the rest of us who have a different idea of how to have fun and enjoy the clubs with our own goals and methods have our discussion without turning every post into your personal pulpit. Here is a hint, this board is not about you.

davids fantasy is that somehow magically durring masturbaton his hand will morph into an actual real stripper. I say good luck to him. Just keep wackin' it bro!

davids: I don't know the details of your case. If you're the only customer who never believed a stripper and never felt betrayed, then you do a damn good job of acting the opposite. I don't feel a need to respond to your every post. (You call what you do "debating"?) Sometimes they're so ludicrous, they're best left to stand undisturbed.

AN: Well I guess you would just have to see guys it works for live before you would believe. Beleive me I was skeptical myself.

This is all an academic argument. I just wanted to test some material to use on strippers. Looks like it's a reasonable position and should be quite fun to use live.

chandler: Hey, speaking of fantasies. Can you give some of the details of your fantasy about how I got played by strippers? Like how much money it cost me, how much emotional commitment. Please be as specific as you can. (Although I doubt you well as your grand debating tactic seems to be as nebulous as possible, and run when asked for specifics.)

davids, you are certainly entitled to indulge in your prefered fantasy, but when a big part of that fantasy seems to be telling us that we are all losers, in denial, and pathetic because we don't share your "enlightened" view of how to have fun in a stripclub you have to expect some pushback. I also will note, once again, since this board is about advice and I think yours is not exactly a recipie for a good time in a club I feel if not obligated then certainly entitled to give an opposing viewpoint. I'd also note that the idea of dating strippers is hardly a new one, and my guess is that someone has tried just about every approach out there.

davids: Of course it's possible as a general proposition. All I've said is that YOUR chances look slim the way you describe your approach. I think some of your ideas may produce results, e.g., if you're doing stuff because you enjoy it in and of itself - hanging around the bar, bullshitting with waitresses. However, if it's a means to an end, and you're pretending to enjoy it just in order to impress dancers, you're wasting your time.

And it appears that you're as much under the spell of stripper fantasies as ever. You believed them when you got dances and they told you how "into you" they were. You felt betrayed when you found out it was just a fantasy. And now you're trying to prove it all over again, as if there's a stain you need to expunge. You think a strategy will turn strippers into your pawns. But the fantasy of hot stripper action is still making you jump through hoops.

Nobody's in any position to dictate what fantasies are or aren't allowed at a strip club, and I'm not on anybody's "side." However, everyone's entitled to their opinion.

Davids: You, me and everyone else are all entitled to whatever fantasys we want to conjure up. When you decide to talk about them on this board they become fodder for all who post here. There often is no right or wrong, just a bunch of different opinions.

I should have also added this "system guy" also walks past the slots and other gamblers yelling "Idiots! Suckers! I have a system! You're pathetic!"