I'm headed for st Louis soon. I'm white, will be by myself in a vehicle with Texas plates. I love black women. Can anyone recommend a safe choice in ESL?
Whitey here as well. I think all of the clubs in ESL have at least a few AA dancers. Outside of Brooklyn and Washington Park, the mileage factor drops off significantly. "Situational awareness" is important anywhere and anytime in ESL.
I'd only do Brooklyn during daylight hours. Pink Slip is 100% AA club, and I've had good take-out there during the afternoon. Usually disappointed with Bottoms Up (90% AA); it seems to be a late night place.
In Washington Park, there are 3 clubs out by I-64. All are well-lit and the parking lots are patrolled, so I think that area is reasonably safe at night. Of the 3 clubs, Miss Kitty's (20% AA) is prolly best bet for fun with AA girls. Unfortunately, the best AA club in the universe (Soft Touch) burned down last year.
Back in the neighborhoods of WP is Dollies (50% AA) which is usually a fun place at the stage, but VIP privacy is not so good. Across the street is Blondie's (100% AA), but I don't think they open until later in the afternoon. Only a couple of blocks from the police station, so it might be safe early in the evening. A half-mile down the road is C-Mowes (33% AA) where I think all dancers will do BBBJ or covered FS in VIP. Looks could be an issue. Couple of newer clubs in the same block as C-Mowes, but they are too expensive to be fun. 8' tall chain link fences around several parking lots; daytime only in this scary part of town.
I’m a white guy who started SCing about 12 years ago. For the last 8 years or so, about 80+% of my SCing has been in all-black clubs b/c I so much like/prefer the ebony dancers – both physically and for their style of dancing.
I have never been in ESL. I have black-SCed in Dallas where I lived for about 10 years; Houston on one visit; ATL on one visit; and Miami where I currently live.
IME I have never had a safety issue w/ all the times I’ve visited black SCs (knock on wood :)). I do recall being very apprehensive (i.e. kind of scared shitless) on my first few visits; but after a while, it “almost†becomes 2nd nature although I always use “situational awareness†as someone else mentioned. The only issues I’ve had in black SCs have been w/ dancers trying to rip me off by up counting dances or the price per dance; etc.
Most white guys not used to being in an all-black environment often assume they will be immediately targeted by other club goers b/c they are white. Like I said, IME I’ve noticed that most black SCers are there to chill/hang out and not look for trouble w/ anyone or with someone just b/c they are white.
I would say the following w.r.t. a black SC you are not familiar with:
1) probably better to go during the day if not familiar w/ the environment – less thug factor during day time (thugs also include some of the dancers :))
2) Weeknights also have less of a thug factor than weekend nights
3) Valet park if you have to so you can be close to the entrance – also park the car yourself even if you are paying the valet
3) Some black SCs are more packed post 12:00 a.m. than b/w 8:00 and 11:00 p.m. (even on weeknights) The late night crowd is usually a shadier crowd although I have never had any issues and have visited black SCs at all hours
4) ALL black SCs I have visited do a pat down. To some this may be akin to the club being dangerous; but I think it enhances safety
5) Most black SCs are small dives and thus one can often find a different clientele; level of security; and dancer attitude/behavior; as compared to some of the few more upscale black SCs. I’ve had good experiences in the Club Onyx chain of SCs (Club Onyx is an upscale black SC owned by Ricks Corp. and are in 4 different cities)
Like I mentioned; my only issues have been w/ dancers thinking white boy doesn’t know the black SC thing and white boy will not say shit if I (dancer) try to rip him. So you should:
a) always tell the dancer how many dancers you want up front and tell her you want her to stop after that # of dances
b) know up front the cost per dance and agree to that cost w/ every dancer before any dances
I have mostly delineated the cons or gotchas. But IME, I always feel I get as good, and often times better, treatment, from the dancers b/c I am white – this is just my option based on:
i) They know most white guys would be a bit apprehensive to be there so IME I’ve often felt I get kinder/gentler treatment from dancers/staff so I will not be scared away
ii) They know if a white guy is there is b/c he really wants to be there b/c he probably really likes ebonies – so more often than not I will get approached a lot by the dancers and get a lot of attention since they figure I am there to get dances and spend $$$; i.e. I am not there for the ambience or to just hang out
If you like AA dancers like I do, then just go for it. Go on a weekday or early weeknight and just see for yourself – chances are high you will survive :)
But Brooklyn and Washington Park w.r.t. East St. Louis is listed under the state of Illinois in the TUSCL clubs section. Is East St. Louis synonymous with Illinois. I thought St. Louis was in Missouri?
A safe club in East St Louis?? Is there such a thing. Deja and Hollywood seem safe enough and do have AA dancers but you won't get what you are looking for. Read the reviews as the clubs vary week to week. Go early during the week when others are out and about. Late you risk becoming a 2 AMer.
To Orignial Poster: Because of your Texas Plates, your worst enemy might actually be the Police (google EStL Police force to read up on it...very corrupt). With that said, I would agree that Dollie's is good option that I believe is a safe place to visit day or night (however, don't get lost trying to find it!). The club has a very well lit parking lot along with numerous cameras on the outside which you can view on an Closed Circut television screen inside the club. Although Dollie's presents the best $ value, you will find better looking ebony women at one of the Penthouse/Hustler clubs.
If your goal is Ebony women, avoid Hollywood's as they have had next to no AA dancers when I visited.
@ Papi. If you are ever in Philly area I definitely recommend Outer Space Club. Utilize your "Situational Awareness" though...this is the roughest neighborhood I have ventured into in pursuit of Fantastic ebony dancers (and I've been through E.StL & SouthCentral L.A. The talent at Outer Space club is top notch!!
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I'd only do Brooklyn during daylight hours. Pink Slip is 100% AA club, and I've had good take-out there during the afternoon. Usually disappointed with Bottoms Up (90% AA); it seems to be a late night place.
In Washington Park, there are 3 clubs out by I-64. All are well-lit and the parking lots are patrolled, so I think that area is reasonably safe at night. Of the 3 clubs, Miss Kitty's (20% AA) is prolly best bet for fun with AA girls. Unfortunately, the best AA club in the universe (Soft Touch) burned down last year.
Back in the neighborhoods of WP is Dollies (50% AA) which is usually a fun place at the stage, but VIP privacy is not so good. Across the street is Blondie's (100% AA), but I don't think they open until later in the afternoon. Only a couple of blocks from the police station, so it might be safe early in the evening. A half-mile down the road is C-Mowes (33% AA) where I think all dancers will do BBBJ or covered FS in VIP. Looks could be an issue. Couple of newer clubs in the same block as C-Mowes, but they are too expensive to be fun. 8' tall chain link fences around several parking lots; daytime only in this scary part of town.
I will use it in a sentence.
"Sarah Palin lives in Alaska. Therefore, she is an AA"
I have never been in ESL. I have black-SCed in Dallas where I lived for about 10 years; Houston on one visit; ATL on one visit; and Miami where I currently live.
IME I have never had a safety issue w/ all the times I’ve visited black SCs (knock on wood :)). I do recall being very apprehensive (i.e. kind of scared shitless) on my first few visits; but after a while, it “almost†becomes 2nd nature although I always use “situational awareness†as someone else mentioned. The only issues I’ve had in black SCs have been w/ dancers trying to rip me off by up counting dances or the price per dance; etc.
Most white guys not used to being in an all-black environment often assume they will be immediately targeted by other club goers b/c they are white. Like I said, IME I’ve noticed that most black SCers are there to chill/hang out and not look for trouble w/ anyone or with someone just b/c they are white.
I would say the following w.r.t. a black SC you are not familiar with:
1) probably better to go during the day if not familiar w/ the environment – less thug factor during day time (thugs also include some of the dancers :))
2) Weeknights also have less of a thug factor than weekend nights
3) Valet park if you have to so you can be close to the entrance – also park the car yourself even if you are paying the valet
3) Some black SCs are more packed post 12:00 a.m. than b/w 8:00 and 11:00 p.m. (even on weeknights) The late night crowd is usually a shadier crowd although I have never had any issues and have visited black SCs at all hours
4) ALL black SCs I have visited do a pat down. To some this may be akin to the club being dangerous; but I think it enhances safety
5) Most black SCs are small dives and thus one can often find a different clientele; level of security; and dancer attitude/behavior; as compared to some of the few more upscale black SCs. I’ve had good experiences in the Club Onyx chain of SCs (Club Onyx is an upscale black SC owned by Ricks Corp. and are in 4 different cities)
Like I mentioned; my only issues have been w/ dancers thinking white boy doesn’t know the black SC thing and white boy will not say shit if I (dancer) try to rip him. So you should:
a) always tell the dancer how many dancers you want up front and tell her you want her to stop after that # of dances
b) know up front the cost per dance and agree to that cost w/ every dancer before any dances
I have mostly delineated the cons or gotchas. But IME, I always feel I get as good, and often times better, treatment, from the dancers b/c I am white – this is just my option based on:
i) They know most white guys would be a bit apprehensive to be there so IME I’ve often felt I get kinder/gentler treatment from dancers/staff so I will not be scared away
ii) They know if a white guy is there is b/c he really wants to be there b/c he probably really likes ebonies – so more often than not I will get approached a lot by the dancers and get a lot of attention since they figure I am there to get dances and spend $$$; i.e. I am not there for the ambience or to just hang out
If you like AA dancers like I do, then just go for it. Go on a weekday or early weeknight and just see for yourself – chances are high you will survive :)
But Brooklyn and Washington Park w.r.t. East St. Louis is listed under the state of Illinois in the TUSCL clubs section. Is East St. Louis synonymous with Illinois. I thought St. Louis was in Missouri?
https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=…
As for black clubs, I have been to many as well. I'm a white guy. Never had a problem.
East St Louis is a separate city in Illinois across the river from St. Louis.
It's demographic make-up is about 97% black.
And to put some perspective why the OP asked about safety - ESL has the highest crime rate in the US according to FBI statistics
If ESL had happened to be in Missouri, I don't think we would have had any of this topic come up.
I thought I read once (probably here) that Washington Park's sole source of revenue was the strip clubs within the city limits. Is that right?
Thanks for the info.
If your goal is Ebony women, avoid Hollywood's as they have had next to no AA dancers when I visited.
@ Papi. If you are ever in Philly area I definitely recommend Outer Space Club. Utilize your "Situational Awareness" though...this is the roughest neighborhood I have ventured into in pursuit of Fantastic ebony dancers (and I've been through E.StL & SouthCentral L.A. The talent at Outer Space club is top notch!!
Thanks for the heads up – Philly has been on my tentative list of places to visit.