At what point does a stripper become a whore?

When she admits it to herself.

After, and only after, they complete steps one and two -

Lying, thieving.....

As soon as they start stripping. Extras is just a different level of whoring. But the first time they choose to take off their clothes for money, they are a whore.

I'm in agreement with mrrock. As soon as they start stripping.

agreed. a stripper who doesn't do extras is just a whore with a very limited menu, but still a whore.

SuperDude nailed it.

At the point she initiates sexual contact with a customer. Grinding on his dick qualifies, IMO.

I don't think her not admitting she is a whore disqualifies her.

I feel that anyone can try something once, but if she goes back to it a second time she is a whore/prostitute.

No white knights gonna jump in and say "but, they are not whores!" Come on, where have all the heroes gone?

We are all whores.

Stripped under attack! Strippers under attack! We need a "white knight" signal akin to the "bat signal". Who will take the mantle? Alucard? tittyfuck?

That means we are all whore mongers. What is the difference between the stripper that gets paid directly for sex of some kind or the girl that fucks after being bought dinner on a "Date". Or the girl that fucks only afer she gets married to a guy to support her. One way or another since Adam took the apple from Eve its all about the Benjamins boys and girls. Always has been always will be. Some one always pays in the end whether directly in VIP, alimony & child support, or marraige, kids and mortgage.

Whore is just a pejorative for prostitute. So they're technically a whore when they fuck/suck for money.

But I still say just call them prostitutes or hookers, why use a pejorative?

Good logic TT. Looks like you can't spot the differece either, so you may get a nomination to alucard's exclusive "TUSCL self-proclaimed genius" club.

Um, technically, learn how to read a fuck dictionary jestie-girl, the words have different definitions.

A whore sacrifices her or her peers boundaries for the sake of money.
A prostitute makes her customer cum for money.

Hint to the jestie-girl: all prostitutes are whores but not all whores are prostitutes. Seems like alot of members (aluretard, tittyfuck, steve229, and the jestie-girl) having trouble with even basic set theory these days.

Doc....... I I really like your definition. I think YOU nailed it

Thanks, VH! Yes, you did quite the number of Alu-retard in the "dilemma" thread.

Camera fades to Douggie and VH sucking each other in the sunset.

How'd your short treasuries work out for you today tittyfuck?

Hard to draw a perfect line here. I think I would say any that give HJ or more have crossed the line for sure. You can certainly make the argument that once they do a sexual lap dance for money, the line has been crossed. Even in air dance clubs, nude or topless dancing for money is selling yourself in one way or another.
I was in a full service club one night and one of the girls was screaming at another girl who had called her a whore. The girl who was screaming probably had sex for money 10 times that night, but did not consider herself a whore since she was a "dancer" in a strip club. I suspect that very few of these girls look at themselves as prostitutes. They are in denial and reserve that term for their cousins on the street.

Once my cock is involved

As Dougster has pointed on on many occasions, given the dictionary definition of the word you employed there, then she becomes a whore the instant she takes money for a sexual act. I'm pretty sure that grinding one's ass on a guy's dick until he has an orgasm meets the definition of "sexual act."

Meeting that definition doesn't require self-recognition or admittance of the state, nor does it require more than one instance. Of course one could claim that one is not a whore even having done that, if all instances were in the past and there was no intent to repeat, but then it would still be true than one *was* a whore.

However innocuous the dictionary meaning, I still hate the word. That's me, and my history though.

Had you chosen "prostitute" instead, the answer would be different.

Whores fuck anyone for money.

Porn stars fuck who they are told for money.

Dancers fuck who they choose for money.

Civilian girls fuck who they want for free (well sort of).

Which one is a whore?

Dancers are not bad girls, they are just drawn that way.

(Pablo, the brown sheep, rides in to defend the honor of dancers; blaah.....blaah.....)

Vhs and dougster sitting in a tree k.I.s.s.I.n.g

Stripper=Whore
You can try to sugar coat it all you want. Once a woman puts a price tag on herself to be ogled and fondled by strangers, she's a whore. The slippery slope only continues from there. The smart ones bank up their money and get out. I've only known two who actually did that.

GMD, that depends entirely on your dictionary. OED and several others basically just say 'prostitute'.

Only Merriam-Webster mentions "sexual acts" which is pretty vague, and it too says prostitute.

Whore is a pejorative for those who are either hookers or who casually sleep around. It's as simple as that.

The jestie-girl is misleading us a bit. OED says a woman who prostitutes herself, but then the definition of prostitute, when used a verb, can encompass acts other than intercourse. Also when it says "prostitute" in m-w that is an example, but not the only kind of woman who would meet the definition.

Seems like most readers have a good sense if the meaning of the word. White knights seem in the minority now compared to just a year ago. That is progress and good to see.

Wow, tough fucking room here.

I'm guessing that nobody who knows better is participating because there is no point.

If seasoned club hounds share their more nuanced thoughts on this topic, the young, broke ass misogynists will either cry "white knight" or continue with passive-aggressive nonsense relating to the dictionary definition of "whore", while everyone here knows that the term is derogatory and goes beyond the strictest dictionary definition to imply that she is immoral and indiscriminate.

There is one girl who I now take out p4p but would not consider a "whore." It took me 2 years to talk her out of the club, over which time she had been trying to steal me from another fav but could not get herself to do what it would take to convert me. Finally I hit the jackpot and I am absolutely convinced, for a number of reasons that I won't elaborate on here, that I am her first p4p.

Now is this young girl engaging in prostitution? Abso-fucking-lutely. But do I consider her to be immoral and indiscriminate? Not at all. Opportunistic is a much more accurate description in my view.

But again, this will all fall on deaf ears anyway. Haters gotta' hate, including those guys who are generally spurned by women and need to take their frustrations out on someone.

I always wondered what p4p meant in this context as it is not in the glossary. Anyway, a stripper becomes a whore when she takes her dollar (whether it be 1 dollar or a 20 dollar bill) in her hand in exchange for sucking a man's dick. That's when she's crossed the line and become a whore. Too bad (for the female's perspective; the male's perspective is good) the same isn't an insult in reverse. If men get paid to lick pussy, then we're fucking BOSS.

Your losing on all fronts, Rick. Definition of "whore". Whether dressing up helps or not. Whether you "just ask" or it is more elaborate that that. Now even tittyfan is admitting my reviews are real. Only straws you have left to grasp at are "multiple aliases" and whether guys who have BBFS with whores when they are married are the true respecters of women who are not whores.

Rick how the hell did young people get into this entire conversation. You've been demeaning young guys quite proactively and in conversations where it is unnecessary and nonsensical. Are you perhaps letting loose a deep seated rage against young guys because you can no longer do what they do? Get pussy for free?

Good insight regarding Rick's psychology, estafador.

Looks like he is branching out a bit. In the past he would have just said everyone in this thread was one of my multiple aliases. Guess he doesn't think that will fly, so he lashes out at the generation in general. (Rick is kind of a pussy when he thinks he will have to defend his views alone. Why he is backed off so many of his former claims as the tide turned against. He does know, from other threads, however, that there is support for the other "No Country for Old Men" crowd, in blanket attacks on the younger generation, so at least he could find other there to stand with him. B1aaah! Blaaah!)

Rick, you called it. I believe most guys use the term whore as a pejorative, not for the sake of accuracy. I will leave it up to the amateur psychologists to speculate about that.

I also find the original question of little use, given the range of behaviors women and men are capable of. Where do you draw the line And why do you want to draw it?

Deja vu.

"But do I consider her to be immoral and indiscriminate? Not at all. Opportunistic is a much more accurate description in my view"

With all due respect to the many seasoned club hounds here with many nuanced, brilliant, and ultimately correct insights...

What a bunch of old white guys think about whether a stripper is a whore or any other descriptive term is totally irrelevant. What matters is what society in general thinks. And what does society think?

I think any stripper will tell you that most women (not all, but most) consider anyone who would do what a stripper does as a slut and/or a whore. Now, do they use the Webster's definition to decide if it technically lines up? No, they decide, out of emotion, that any girl who "dresses like THAT" and dances for men, etc., etc., is a slutty whore. Which is why the average girl would sooner die than let their daughters/family members/friends know that they are strippers. That's what really matters, not what a bunch of white guys who love strippers think.

What about most men? Well, if your daughter told you that she was a stripper, would you:

A. Freak out and get totally pissed, or,
B. Go insane

Now, ask yourself why. No matter how you slice it, in general, society considers strippers as something along the lines of slutty and whorish. No matter what term you use, it's not a good thing, and not something you're proud of. Of course there are exceptions, and I'm sure that the seasoned pros here will list those exceptions, but in I'm talking in generalities.

LOL. Yup, the usual responses from a young guy about not having to pay for it and the normal and customary dime store psychobabble from Fraudster. This was not only predictable, but almost inevitable. ;)

Fraudster, it is just too tiring to keep up with all of your aliases, so I am bound to respond to something posted by one at some point.

Btw, feel free to highlight a single "claim" that I have ever backed off of. I don't make claims - I share my in the trenches experiences. Those of us who DO share while those who DO NOT are left to amuse themselves by posting copious amounts of nonsense about other posters interspersed with absurd generalizations about clubs and dancers. Guess which category you fall in? ;)

Seems some here (maybe the older crowd in particular?) think it is possible to *pay* (key here) a woman to suck your dick and let you cum in her mouth and have her swallow, and still respect that woman and have her feel respect for you? But if your own daughter did it, you would instantly recognize that reasoning as non-sense. But you yourself are still a respecter and you think they feel respected afterward... Hmmm, can't figure that one out.

@hd: This thread had only one purpose to begin with, which was for someone to stir up nonsense as a juvenile means of amusing himself. It is too bad that this discussion board has lately been clogged up with this crap.

"Seems some here (maybe the older crowd in particular?) think it is possible to *pay* (key here) a woman to suck your dick and let you cum in her mouth and have her swallow, and still respect that woman and have her feel respect for you? But if your own daughter did it, you would instantly recognize that reasoning as non-sense. But you yourself are still a respecter and you think they feel respected afterward... Hmmm, can't figure that one out."

Dougster, to my shock, that was actually a decent and somewhat fair comment, which I will post a civil response to momentarily...

Prostitute is usually associated with sex worker. People that p4p use this term not in a derogatory way. Whore on the other hand tends to be used by the person who uses the sex worker, but feels he needs to denigrade them to make himself feel superior.

And now for the usual useless off topic response from our resident asshole, Fraudster, who just recently stated he imagines he has met Stiletto.

Poor, Rick. First he has to deal with not being able to deal with being over 40 so well, and then he sees the board turning against his claims, and he knows it will get just continue more and more in that direction as time goes on.

@jerikson: good point, dictionary defintion or not. makes no difference. strippers fits the bill, so call them that.

Hey, tittyfan, treasuries down so far today. What do you think - complete collapse pending, or buy the dip?

...so much for trying to be civil. :)

I have far more respect for a woman who does whatever it takes to provide the best possible life for her and her children (which most dancers have) than I do for one who raises her kids at a bare subsistence level while sucking off of the public tit.

"I have far more respect for a woman who does whatever it takes to provide the best possible life for her and her children (which most dancers have)"

Okay, fair enough. So if your daughter came to you one day and said "Um, Daddy, I've never told you, but I've been a stripper for a couple of years now. And I've been having sex both inside and outside of the club with these guys who pay me. And they do stuff to me, like shoot all over my face and stuff. Is that okay, Daddy?"

Now, answer this: would you consider that to be immoral, or just "opportunistic"?

I'd rather have her take whatever public assistance she could, go to school and get a better life that way. But your answer was a nice try, Rick.

@jerikson: Rick would not answer that it was okay. He would fuckin' freak!

Rick knows what guys like us are like, because he was one himself. He would not think "well they are nice guy, gentlemen respecters of women like myself (heck, they must be since they wear suits". Rick would probably even be worried that she might have done BBFS with some can caught something.

Ok, Rick. We just sunk you on the "more respecting" front too. I can't, at the end of the day, say I honestly respect them. But neither can your side, so we are all in the same boat. Just some of us are honest enough to admit.

Only straw you have left to grasp at now is "multiple aliases".

Groceries, clothes and housing have to be purchased today, while the potential benefits from schooling are often years away. Oh, and go figure that some single mothers don't want to raise their children in places that take Section 8.

And how much time do you think that a single mother has to go to school when she also has to work and care for her child(ren)? How would she pay for all of the child care that it would take to free her up to work AND go to school?

And how exactly is she going to pay for all of that schooling? Very few people can get full rides under financial aid plans.

I hear about these things all the time from dancers themselves. If they could live in a safe place, feed and clothe their kids, go to school AND have as-needed childcare, all from public assistance, then many of them would probably jump at the chance. The reality is that the benefits of public assistance are limited in most places.

jerikson, I'll never have to hear that because my child will never be in that boat, at least while I'm alive. These girls usually lack a meaningful support system and most of them have children or others to care for, so they make difficult choices.

I don't know about your genes, Rick, but mine are pretty good scholastically. Ever heard of scholarships/research/teaching assistanceships? Not confident any of your daughters would make the cut?

Rick, you're dodging the primary issue.

Is it okay, and merely 'opportunistic' for some other guy's little girl to do it, but not for someone YOU care about? Everyone is somebody's daughter. And most/all of the fathers feel exactly the same way as you do.

How do you possibly justify thinking it's merely 'opportunistic', when you know damn well it's much more than that to men and fathers and mothers everywhere?

@jerikson: I think Rick is "claiming" that his answer would be "that's okay, dear, at least you didn't collect social assistance. I can live with you for this, but if you collected social assistance that woudl be it. Need a ride to work?"

So, Rick, final question. How do you like the board now compared to the days when people were giving you your narcissitic supple with all their "oh, wow, that is a brilliant idea to be the only one wearing a suit in a dive club, so score OTC with the girls in those places." Not as much fun, anymore? Is that the reason your swagger is gone and you are like all melancholic?

Just to tease, I will say a stripper becomes a whore when she starts working in Detroit and meets tuscl members. Can't be a whore unless there is demand.

Scholarships/research/teaching assistanceships. LMAO. They have to feed, clothe and house their kids today. And let's be honest in that most strippers do not exactly have the strongest academic backgrounds, no doubt due in part to the fact that many of them come from dysfunctional homes.

What in the world do my daughters have to do with this? I'm not overly concerned in this department as most strippers do not come from homes that are as whole and well financed as mine, nor do most strippers have the academic opportunities that mine are already benefiting from. And yes, I fully expect my children to excel academically. And if many of these dancers had this type of upbringing or even anyone who gave enough of a damn to seriously help them to begin with, then they probably wouldn't be in those positions either.

am talking about the backgrounds and situations facing girls in this industry. Most of these girls come from broken homes and thinly financed backgrounds.

Rick, it's clear you've put on your tophat and tails and tap dancing shoes, and doing a tap dance around the issue.

It's not about YOUR daughters, it's an ANALOGY where I used you as an example so you'd understand. The POINT is that you continue to believe you're nuanced and brilliant in thinking that it's merely 'opportunistic' for a girl to let a guy pay her to squirt on her face, but every father on earth would NEVER let his daughter do that because he'd feel it was disgusting. No father would call it merely opportunistic, but for some reason you can.

How can that be?

Most of the girls that I deal with on a p4p basis do so because they need the money in order to provide for their kids or someone else. Period. I have nothing but tremendous respect for a girl who does whatever it takes to provide a good life for her child and so should anyone else.

In the case of my current local club fav, who is quite young and from a broken home, she recently found herself in a position where she has to help support her mother, which I'm guessing is why she finally relented on p4p after two years. I have a tremendous amount of respect for her as well for stepping up and doing whatever it takes.

@jerikson: " No father would call it merely opportunistic, but for some reason you can [...] How can that be?"

I have Rick pegged as having narcissitic personality disorder. A couple of consequences of that germaine to your question are: 1) he, in general, lives in a fantasy world, 2) (related to 1) he has impaired empathetic capability so cannot imagine how other people, or, even himself, would react when confronted by real world situations, especially those complicated by strong emotions such as you describe.

Jerikson, read above - slowly this time. Of course I would never condone this. As I said, if these girls had fathers around who gave a shit, either as they were growing up or currently, then they probably wouldn't be in these situations to begin with.

Okay, so if you and your family was suddenly destitute, for whatever reason, and your daughter decided she needed to become a stripper and let the customers pay her for sex it would then be okay and merely 'opportunistic'?

Dude, stop dancing around the issue. It's not about money, it's about whether it's slutty and whorish. You keep trying to justify your position by bringing money into the picture.

If a girl is totally broke, and you are her father, and she tells you she's working as a stripper and having sex with strangers, is it just 'opportunistic'? ANSWER THE FREAKIN' QUESTION !!!!!

Well we sure did the moonwalk all over Rick-boy's face.

Got say it again.

I just love the smell of fried Rick-boy in the morning! Smells like *sniff*... Victory!

I would just like to share this wonderful story in context to the current discussion. (names changed to protect the less than innocent)

When She Says “No”, but Really Means “Yes”….
So…here I am in the corner at BDFW…with my cock in a dancer’s G-string getting a nice, warm stripper slide. She was rockin to and fro over my cock, but with my dick cramped in her G-string, I couldn’t quite get to the sweet spot for a nice and naughty stripper slide… so….

….I reached for her bottoms and hornily pulled them down…for better access….hoping for my cock to get an up close n 3D view of her bare cunt and cunt opening…but she quickly grabbed her bottoms and pulled them up…..damn……but…my hobby sense was tingling that she was just being a little nervous…being coy….and playing hard to get…….

….maybe a little drunk….

…..but ol’ Dirty Johnny has known this young hoe for awhile now….so…mixed in a little sweet talk….played with her big tits….told her how much fun she was ….how much I loved her body…and made her laugh….before I knew it…her pussy was wet….sticky wet….and ol’ Dirty Johnny iz smooth, slick and cunning…so….very…very…very gently pulled down her bottoms to expose her bare azz and cunt..…and positioned for a total GFE stripper slide…

……before I knew it…this young and frisky dancer was like a horse ….rockin’ and buckin’ all over my bare cock……bare cock gettin’ that bare pussy super wet…my hobby sense tingled…and I decided to tease and play with her in her state of horniness….and take this hoe to the other level….

….so…I playfully and very innocently told her that I was so excited and was about to cum….and was just going to cum all over her pussy and fill her G-string….but…she told me that she didn’t have another pair of bottoms….would be pissed….and probably slap me…….ha ha….but ol’ Dirty Johnny’s been around the block….and knowz when a hoe is being coy….and really teasing and giving the invite……but…

…..I wasn’t totally sure……

Gotta Let a Hoe be a Hoe
……but ol’ Dirty Johnny is a gambler….risk taker….so as her pussy got wetter and wetter…ol’ Dirty Johnny got bolder and bolder….and figured this hoe was good to go….and….so…my cock moved in for some naughty stripper slide fun…I reached for the tip of my cock and tried to wiggle….squirm…and slip n slide the tip in between her pussy lipz…..just a little bit….jus a lil bit I told myself….but…

….this dancer’z arm quickly reached back and firmly repositioned my cock away from her snatch hole opening….he he……but ol’ Dirty Johnny is smooth….slick….and cunning….so…I slowly…and very gently worked her into another stripper slide….and…cracked a few jokes as if I was Cliff Huxtable…..and….soon she was ready to explore the “Other Level”….

….the “Other Level” of cum swallowing,….naughty stripper slidez….tasting her own puzzy….spreading her azz cheekz and letting her azz crack get filled with a load of warm cum….or in this case….some warm, hot cum all over her cunt…..dripping… seeping…and draining into places unknown…

…..anyone can pay a hoe to suck their dick or fuck….but it takez some skill to take a hoe to the “Other Level”…..and soon….her “No” turned into a silent “Yes”…..as she didn’t reach back to remove the tip of my cock from slipping and sliding in between her snatch lipz…

….an ol’ Dirty Johnny decided to gamble and risk a painful slap in the face…..the tip of my cock tingled….the sensation of her warm….very wet-n-sticky cunt was just too much to bear….so I ejaculated with the tip of my cock in between her pussy lipz and cream coated her cunt with some protein juice….

…..this young Plat Hooker in training….just stood their motionless….letting me ejaculate in her most intimate and most private areas…sneaking a little creampie while she just stood there….probably in a state of shock of drunkenness…and “I can’t believe that I just did that!” feeling…..he he….but ol’ Dirty Johnny gambled….and won big with a slut machine in Vegas…as I heard what I thought was my cum yelling “We are Marshall!!!” as my little semen swimmerz disappeared into the depths of her cunt area…. he he…

….a total [prohibited - mod] white trash, cum slut finish…and ol’ Dirty Johnny doesn’t pass up a chase to spray some warm protein honey on a hoe’s boo boo…know what I’m sayin?.....

….so….thinking this hoe would break for the dressing room….she calmly pullz up her bottoms (with my cum still inside!) and asks for a drink…[prohibited - mod]…so….we head to a table and it made me hard as hell with this slut sitting down at a table with my cum seeping in areas unseen and unknown…I felt so embarrassed for her as she asked a waitress for napkins….napkins…

…to dab and wipe the cum leaking and seeping out of her bottoms…I was in total shock an felt so embarrassed for her as she just let my cum drain out on her seat….most hoes will have the decency to squat and drain in the corner or douche in the dressing room…but not this youngin’…she just lets it seep out while having a drink…sometimes…..you just gotta let a hoe be a hoe…so…..

A Cum Shower
….I head back to BDFW…bolder than ever…feeling confident that I could tell when a dancer says “No”, but really means“Yes” and take her to the “Other Level”. I see a young blonde that I’ve seen around here and there and ask her for a dance. She assures me that I’ll get a good dance, but won’t do anything dirty. Hmmmm. My hobby sense tingled and I told her that I’d be waiting near the corner….the one that she’s alwayz in….

….I see the slut that let me deposit some protein juice fabric softener in her G-string just a couple of days before….so…. I pervertedly ask if there was a lot of crusty cum in her G-string when she finished her shift. He he…“Yes!” there was she nervously smiles and says. He he. So, I pervertedly asked what she did with her “Lewinsky” stained bottoms….and she actually says – “They’re on the floor in my apartment. I didn’t have enough clothes to wash a load yet”. I looked at this silly hoe like she was fuckin’ crazy….too cheap to wash a single article of stained undies but wanted to wait for a full load of laundry…I tipped her and shook my head in disbelief….

….nasty hoez these days!.....but it turned me on knowing that my crusty cum was still on the undies in this cum slutz apartment….

….so….this young blond finally comes over and I’m horny….so we head straight to the corner….

…….now….I’d bullshitted with this dancer before…but had never gotten dances until now…but let her know that I wasn’t a fool like most guyz here throwing money away for just lap dances…and expected to get my money’s worth…and expected to get some play…

….”B” is a dick tease and a bit of a hustler…..and will play you if you aren’t careful….she was bumpin’ and grindin’ her firm, round azz all in my lap when she notices and says – “You dick is out!”. She warns me that I better not touch her with it and that after she finishes dancing for me (and collected my money!), she’s going to go tell a manager that my cock was out…

…..I knew this slut was bluffin’ as my hobby sense tingled with a “She’s telling you ‘No’, but she really means ‘Yes’ “…so I decided to show her that I was calling her bluff…..by….

….rubbing and tapping her azz with my cock…”Stop it!” she playfully says…..and I decided to ask if she had ever heard of a stripper slide before…..”Yeah! But I wont do one!” she says. By this time…she’s knowz I’m a dirty ol’ perv….and I ask her“Do you know where the word “stripper slide” came from?”….she sarcastically said “You?”…..but ol’ Dirty Johnny quickly denied it and told her he was looking for his first stripper slide and sweetened the offer with some extra cash….but she said“No”….and my hobby sense told me she really meant “No”….so…I quickly changed the subject…teased her….and

….playfully suckled her breasts and told her that I was going to cum on her. She playfully tries to threaten me “I’m going to get a manager if you do!”…..so I quickly tell her…”Oh, go ahead….how are you going to explain my dick being out in the first place??”. She didn’t respond…and this cute little dick teasing hoe knew that she had been caught and couldn’t bullshit a bullshitter…

……I playfully and gently told her to back that azz up….spanked her azz cheekz a few timez with my cock and proceeded to ejaculate and cum all over her back and azz. She was a good girl and just stood their motionless while I applied some warm protein juice to her back and azz….good girls let you ejaculate a full load all over them….he he….and after I finished…

….she did the BDFW corner wipe…where she wipes her cum stained azz all on the corner “fort chair” – the chair that guardz the corner. He he. I paid her and dared her to tell a manager that I jizzed all over her….he he….”You are so nasty! I’m never going to dance for you again!” and she wobbles off to the back…but stops at the pool table…

….to talk to some potential customers….I just watch and laugh as her back is facing towards me and I see her arm reach around her back and feel around… as if she still feels some sticky cum on her. He he. 

When it Rains, It Pours!
…so….I stop by BDFW for a quickie and the club is slow and dead. “Champagne” seez ol’ Dirty Johnny and heads straight over to the perverted and nasty ol’ Dirty Johnny. She knowz that I’m not going to waste her time with bullshit talk or waste her time for an hour before I get a dance or two….”Champagne” knowz that when I’m horny…I’m ready to get a nut and not wasting time…so…she better come over before another hoe does…

….my hobby sense tingled as I could easily tell that “Champagne” was desperate for cash and wouldn’t mind another cum shower in the corner. I’d taken a few Horny Goat Weed pills a few hours prior, so my cock was hard and my sack full of nut….and felt that I could really “make it rain” with a nice sized cum shower on lil “Champagne” this visit…so we head to the corner…

….the club is dead so brazenly pull out my shirttail, unbutton, unzip and pull out my cock. “Champagne” grinds on it and I tap her azz with my cock. Tap! Tap! I got an adrenaline rush from the sound of spanking her azz with my cock and from the sensation of rubbing it all over her bare skin in a public place. I was leaking pre-cum and dribblin' it all over her body….”Champagne” didn’t say a word when I asked if she felt it and I could tell that she was going to be a very good girl this day…..

….but…

….I was overly aggressive and tried to pull down her bottoms for a stripper slide…and “Champagne” quickly jumped a foot away…. Too aggressive and I scared her off….so I had to apologize and act all innocent for her to trust me again and get closer…I get off on telling a girl that I’m about to cum….so I’m jacking off and telling her that I’m about to cum…”Champagne” was a very good girl….

…and leans forward and lets me cum all on her tits and stomach….she doesn’t let me finish and turns around to for the“BDFW corner wipe” on the chair…so I boldly stand up and continue ejaculating all over her azz and thighz while she is cleaning her front……she is a little mad and tells me to stop, but I keep cumming and ejaculating all over her….she doesn’t realize that you just can’t stop! He he…

….she tells me that I’m a pervert and people are going to see…but I could tell that she somewhat enjoyed her cum shower….a little undercover cum slut…and didn’t mind me rubbing my now limp dick all through the sticky cum on her azz and thigh…..but…

….she “acted” mad, took her money and stormed off….not wiping the cum completely off her body…he he…

Aftermath – Part 1
….I return for some more cum shower fun, but am met by an angry “Champagne”. She refuses to talk to me and ignores me. She just rolled her eyes and looked away whenever I was in the corner with another cum slut. So, not wanting a “good girl” mad at me…

….I approach “Champagne” to tip her…..”I never want to talk to you again! You’re an azz hole!!!” or something like that she says. That’s not the first time and definitely wont be the last that ol’ Dirty Johnny has hears that line! He he. I play dumb and stuff her G-string with ones…..and she goes on to tell me that after she danced for me the last time…she headed to the dressing room and another dancer told her that she had cum all on her leg – while in front of the other dancers in the dressing room…..and all of the other dancerz laughed at her! Ooops! So, being a smart azz I told her – “You should have swallowed!”. He he…..

…that did not go over well and she punched me in the shoulder. “I’m never dancing for you again!” or some bullshit like that. But money talkz and bullshit walkz…and I was soon smoothing thingz over by getting some “regular” lap dances. “Why can’t you be like other guys and get regular dances without pulling out your dick and cumming all over me?” – she asked. Becuz I’m Dirty Johnny. He he

Aftermath – Part 2
“Champagne” will let you cum all over her, but I have not gotten her to give a hj or bj – but haven’t really pursued it. She will just charge you for each song and not upsell for extras. Other girls tell me she is nasty, but think she is for most part a dick teaser and an undercover hoe that wants a lot more than she’s worth. There are suckerz at BDFW paying girls 400-600 for dinner and sex. I mean girls that are 7’s are getting suckers to pay them that type of money…

….on a serious note…might want to be careful when trying to read dancer signals….always risky when trying to determine if a dancer really means “yes”, when she says “no” (especially when you are contemplating just jizzing all over a provider’s cunt without asking). In my 20+ years of hobbying, I have only had one dancer get pissed….she said don’t cum in her mouth and I did….so...the bitch stood up and did an upper cut right into my nutz! Yes, grown me do sometimes cry!!! Talk about a nut cracker and it wasn’t even Christmas!!!! He he.


Totally opportunistic.

As usual, Rick makes valid objective comments that some people just can not grasp.

What is stupid about all of these rebuttals is the assumption that all dancers have guys paying to squirt on her face. Strip clubs are full of strippers that do not provide extras. There are countless dancers that do well just by providing air dances.

The problem with many posters here is that they can not accept logic and rational thought.

"What is stupid about all of these rebuttals is the assumption that all dancers have guys paying to squirt on her face"

Rick gave an example of a stripper he's paying to have sex with, and he called her merely 'opportunistic'. I disagreed, and provided a rational reasoning.

You don't like it, so you take it out of context and make a useless comment. And how much does it change my point if your daughter is still a stripper doing air dances? Any more 'opportunistic', or do you still get freaked out?

I answered it several times dipshit. It would happen with my daughters over my dead body.

But your question is also irrelevant because you are trying to equate a father's view of what his daughter does and use it as the barometer to judge these things universally.

First, I am not their father. Second, most of these girls are now parents themselves and have to make decisions based upon what is best for their own children, not what their fathers might have thought of the situation. Third, most of their fathers were never around and lost their rights to have a vote to begin with. Fourth, most of these girls would not even be dancing, nevermind doing p4p, if their fathers had done their jobs properly (or at all) to begin with.

And money is the main point dude. These girls are doing things that they probably don't want to do becuase they need the money to take care of other people, unless you really think that they are eager to fuck guys 2-3 times their age.

But you keep tinking of these girls as "whores" because I know that you need to. ;)

"Rick gave an example of a stripper he's paying to have sex with, and he called her merely 'opportunistic'. I disagreed, and provided a rational reasoning."

Yeah, instead you believe that it is rational to label her as a "whore" because she is earning as much as she can to pay the rent for a sick mother. And it must also be 'rational" to label girls who must earn money to feed, clothe and house their children as the same. Yup, that is quite rational - those nasty selfish bitches. ;)

Okay Rick, as usual, trying to get a straight answer out if you is like trying to nail jelly to a tree. Freakin' impossible.

Apparently you think it's merely 'opportunistic' for a girl to let strangers pay her for sex, as long as she needs the money to pay the bills and feed her family. However, that same logic doesn't apply to your daughters, in which case they'd do it over your dead body because you view it as being a whore. So you admit that letting guys pay you for sex is being a whore when it comes to your daughters, but it doesn't apply to other girls. Even though their parents and family members and friends probably feel the same way as you do.

And apparently you don't see any hypocrisy in that, right?

Because you are trying to apply a simplistic label to an issue that is situational. You want it to be black and white because that is the easiest way for you to process it, but the reality is that perspective matters.

Of course it is not ok to me for my daughter to sell herself for money and it would never happen, with my knowledge, while I lived and breathed. But if your hypothetical scenario unfolded where I became destitute and unable to earn a decent living (which is not likely as I am well educated) AND if my daughter found herself uneducated (also unlikely as she is currently receiving a top notch education) AND had nobody to turn to (also highly unlikely as their are other well financed family members who love her) AND had her own children to support, then I might never know what choices she makes to take care of herself and her family.

Engaging in p4p is often a last resort for the girls that do it. Most of them would choose other avenues if they felt that they were available. I am simply not going to demonize a girl girl who does what she needs to in order to care for her own family just because I would never condone it for my own daughter.

BTW, Rick, I never said, at any point, whether I personally view strippers as whores or sluts. My point, and my entire discussion, was from the perspective of society as a whole, and you in particular. So you're free to imply I have a personal bias, but that is nothing more than your attempt to deflect the issue and continue your tap dance.

I dont consider myself a whore. It wouldn't bother me if someone else did though. Ive heard so many negative words thrown my way that I've become numb to anyone's thoughts of me besides my own

"I am simply not going to demonize a girl girl who does what she needs to in order to care for her own family just because I would never condone it for my own daughter"

So if your daughter does it she's a whore, and doing something that is totally unacceptable and disgusting. But if someone else does it she's just providing for her family. Okay. Got it.

So letting a guy pay you for sex can either be absolutely disgusting and unacceptable, or totally honorable, depending on the situation. Got it.

BTW, for those following this discussion, what Rick is describing can be categorized as 'situational ethics', in which people bend their ethical beliefs to suit themselves, depending on the situation.

In this case he is capable of bending his basic belief that letting a guy pay you for sex is the act of a whore, and totally unacceptable, which he clearly feels applies to his own daughters. In this case he can bend that belief around 180 degrees to make it somehow appear honorable. Truly a stunning bit of acrobatics.

Here is a little thought experiment. Transport yourself to the Netherlands and resume the argument.

Stilleto, I appreciate your point of view.

"Here is a little thought experiment. Transport yourself to the Netherlands and resume the argument"

Are you saying that if Rick moved to the Netherlands he'd let his daughter work in the red light district?

No, if my daughter did it then it would be because she felt she had no other choice, which would mean that I failed as a father to give her better options. I would also be enraged and anguished, but I would never hate her or think of her as a whore. I would also be afraid for her well being.

And what exactly is inconsistent about our views being based upon where we sit? There are a number of dangerous and/or potentially degrading jobs that I would never want my daughters to do, but that nonetheless will (and in many cases need to) be done by someone.

"BTW, Rick, I never said, at any point, whether I personally view strippers as whores or sluts. My point, and my entire discussion, was from the perspective of society as a whole..."

And now you are speaking for society as a whole? That is quite ambitious of you. ;) I don't think that society has quite as uniform a view on these matters as you seem to believe, but of course those who feel compelled to paint these things in black or white also often need to feel like everyone else agrees with them. :)

Rick, it's an ethical question. You're trying to make it a situational question so that you don't have to answer the ethical question.

You keep boasting about your brilliance with the subtle and dynamic nuance of strip clubs, but you can't even address a simple ethical question.

There's a reason you would be furious if she chose to be a stripper who let guys have sex with her for money. But you refuse to face and accept the basic reason you'd be upset. It's because that type of behavior is, to you, degrading, humiliating, and overall a really bad thing. You'll argue all day whether you'd call it "whore" or "slut" or whatever, but that's not the point. The point is that it's unacceptably bad behavior which disgusts you. And society as a whole agrees with that emotion, and feels exactly the same way as you do. They call it being a 'slut' or a 'whore'.

But you've been painted into the corner of hypocrisy, and you'll never give up.

"And now you are speaking for society as a whole?"

Is what I say wrong? Ask people. Ask your daughters. Ask their friends. Ask your wife. Ask every stripper you meet. Ask them how others feel about strippers. Ask them if they tell their family and friends about their stripping. Ask them how proud the are. Then come back and let us know if you still hold your opinion.

I have never known a stripper who wasn't able to find a "way out" when she decided it was time. And no her children didn't not have a terrible life because stripping was
the only way he could make it decent for them. The door is always open when they are ready to walk out (ok, maybe bit if there are pimps involved like KK said but even she admitted those situations are atypical.)

Best thing these women can do for their children is to live their own lives to make themselves happy and preserving their own dignity is part if that. Do some of these stupid old fucks really think that the girls feel respected and dignified after they suck off old men and swallow their cum for $100? If so what a fuked up fantasy world you live in.

UPDATE: I have transported myself to the Netherlands. I am currently high as a kite. I can finally appreciate Rembrandt...

"Then come back and let us know if you still hold your opinion."

Rick admit he was wrong about something as oppose to just digging deeper? Unlikely, but it could happen. Took tittyfuck 3.5 years until the first time he admitted he was wrong about something but it happened.

"No, if my daughter did it then it would be because she felt she had no other choice, which would mean that I failed as a father to give her better options"

Better options? Isn't this the guy who just got done explaining how "...a 20 year old dancer with skills can put on her heels and make good money today", and in fact more than a banker with much less effort? And isn't this the same guy who proclaimed (my paraphrase) "planning for the future doesn't pay the bills today"? By your own words, stripping is a great option, no?

There's more to it, and you know it. Again, it's about ethics, and what you know, down deep, is right and wrong. And THAT is why you'd let your daughter be a stripper only over your dead body.

"There's more to it, and you know it. Again, it's about ethics, and what you know, down deep, is right and wrong. And THAT is why you'd let your daughter be a stripper only over your dead body."

Careful now. Rick has an image he needs to maintain, and he like TUSCL bet when it existed as a circle jerk support group of others trying maintain the same denial of why they know they really are. The new TUSCL makes him all melancholic. Better deny that too by saying all these people attacking him are "multiple aliases". Go now Rick find refuge in the paranoid fantasy world!

jerikson, wow dude. You really have a rigid worldview.

If sex workers were as universally reviled as you seem to believe, then there wouldn't be 4,000+ strip clubs serving millions of guys each year. Who knows how many billions of dollars run through the hands of clubs and dancers each year. And this doesn't even factor in the money spent on other adult entertainment, such as porn, camming, etc.

Sex services (strip clubs, escorts, etc.) are among those things enjoyed by many but talked about very little openly, largely for fear of vocal and embarrassing criticism from those who DO revile it.

Unlike you, I don't need to ask my wife, mother, sister, etc., to validate what my "ethical" view should be - I have my own. I have no problem with a grown woman choosing to serve as a dancer, escort, etc., nor do I hold her in any lower esteem. She is a grown woman and has the right to make her own decisions about what to do with her body, so long as she is not hurting anyone else. And I most certainly do not view escorting as "bad" or "unacceptable." Further, I believe that many others share my beliefs, for the reasons noted above, whether they openly discuss them or not.

I would not want my own child escorting or dancing for the same reasons that I would not want her sleeping around, or having sex before she is married, etc., which is that I don't want any guy near my little princess because I don't want her to be sullied in any way. But I am not objective when it comes to my own daughter and it is an emotional issue specific to her, which is absolutely normal for a father. If any of my ex-girlfriends gauged their own behavior based upon their fathers' beliefs then I would not have been laid until I was in my late 20s. ;) That has nothing to do with how I impartially judge the behavior of others.

Fraudster, if 30 people held these inane beliefs then all 30 of you would be wrong, but in this case you might as well just use the same screen name. The writing style is identical. ;)

And once again I let myself get sucked in the a long back and forth exchange, this time just through another cutout alias. When the fuck will I learn. ;)

Bye bye.

Rick: " I have no problem with a grown woman choosing to serve as a dancer, escort, etc., nor do I hold her in any lower esteem"

Well unless it was his own daughter, of course. But damnit, that's different so don't bring it up! He is not contradicting himself blatantly!

Funny thread...I got about half way through it before the Ricky Rich shared his fears of young people with us, then it started to get so stupid lol

Who cares at what point stripper becomes a whore? In the context of this site, it doesn't matter because whore or not, we'll still show up at the clubs, spend our money and for the most part, get what we want.

And as the jelly oozes down the side of the tree, I take my hammer and nail and move on.

Rick, you're absolutely unbelievable. But a great tap dancer.

Bye, Rick! Destroyed you once again, but, thanks for playing! You even finished it off perfectly by retreating back into your "multiple aliases" paranoid fantasy world as I predicted you would. As I say, just another chapter in a psychology textbook!

*victory dance*

Doc, I like the way you think. If you really want to blow your mind, go to the Van Gogh Museum.

Let's just say "our morality" in the US is not the only definition of morality.

"...this time just through another cutout alias"

So is that the game you children play here? Sounds about right.

But with all due respect to Dougster, he acts like a fuckin' two year old, with his childish name calling and "I'm right, you're wrong" games. Unfortunately, just like many of the kids in this forum. So please don't lump me together with him.

As I have said before the only end for me on this board is being right, and as long I am right and admit when I am wrong that is all that matters to me - the means to get there is irrelevant. So if you want to say something that matters to me kindly point out when I am wrong about something.

Part of the time you're just as bad as he is.

I know I'm late since apparently I have bettet things to do than go through an entire banter with a narrow minded old man but, you still didn't explain why you choose to antagonize those younger than you. Are you truly upset that you can no longer garner pussy for free or is it some deep seated issue or what? We're all here to help you out old timer.

jerikson - the one flaw in your research is the assumption that all dancers have "parents and family memebers and friends" that feel the same way. As Rick mentioned, many of these girls have parents that don't give a fuck about them. There are father's that sell their daughters off so it is not the same. I had friends that went to the Dominican Republic and would rent girls for the week. Their father's didn't care or were happy there was some cash on the table when they got home.

" There are father's that sell their daughters off so it is not the same"

A key element in my plan to buy tittyfuck's daughter.

Anyway, if they are in such a desire situation, isn't it just a but exploitive as opposed to gentlemanly to take advantage of that? So if they are in the desire situation you are no gentlemen/respecter and if they are not in the site situation then, according to Rick logic, it is fair to call them whore which shows disrespect. In either case, the customer is no respecter. QED.

Jestie has a point. You engage in your own share of name calling, jerikson. Guess when you do it's justified though, and when I do it it's not. An example of the "situational ethics" you were talking about, hmmmm?

I understand, but my point was about the support structure that is lacking. I would sell my kidneys on ebay (both) before my daughter would become a prostitute or a whore or whatever. Basically, before she would have to sell herself for money. You could say opportunistic or taking advantage but the point is that if they really need the money, they will find someone to pay them for what they are willing and choose to do. This whole discussion is out the window if we are talking young girls, but adults are different.
I would judge the father more than the guys paying.

Hmmm... I never really bought the argue it's okay for me to do a bad deed because if I didn't someone else would just go ahead and do it. Haven't thought through all the logic of why that doesn't seem right, but my conscience says that argument won't get you off. I'll think about it some more though.

steve sez: "...the one flaw in your research is the assumption that all dancers have "parents and family memebers and friends" that feel the same way"

Did I ever say "all"? If I did it was stupid, because nothing is ever all. I made a generalization, which means it's generally true. Which means true the majority (ie, greater than 50%) of the time.

Generally, deep down inside, parents of girls feel that it's bad/dishonorable/shameful/whatever (pick whatever word you like) for their daughter to be a stripper. Much more if they're also getting paid for sex. Of course there are fathers who don't give a crap, or at least supress their feelings in favor of the cash she's making. At there are even some mothers who don't give a crap. But in general, society and parents and children and people in general feel it's a bad thing.

I find it hard to believe that people are arguing about that. Seriously?

I honestly don't know either. This week, we have Lawrence Taylor in court because he called for a girl, when she showed up she had fresh bruises and said she didn't want to do it. He says he thought she was 19, but she was 16 and she says it was her first time and she called 911 from the bathroom. I wasn't there, but it sounds pretty bad to me and I think he's a douche.
I don't know how I feel about the somebody else would do it excuse either, I just threw it out there because when talking about two consenting adults, I look to judge the family or friends that let the situation get to this point.

"An example of the "situational ethics" you were talking about, hmmmm?"

Sure. I'll go with that. I occasionally get pissed and frustrated with people, and sometimes I let my inner child get out. It's wrong. But I try not to make it my reason for living like others do. I try to rationally discuss issues. Others do nothing but pot shots and name calling.

I would bet there are many families in Latin America, no offense but this is the situation in NY, that are waiting for funds to be wired home and are in denial regarding where the money comes from.

"I think he's a douche"

Hey, wait a minute, that's LT you're talkin' about.

Yeah, LT was a legend in my father's house, but crossed the line in my opinion with a 16 year old that he should have noticed was not there voluntarily.

Jerikson: I'm perfectly willing to have calm rational discussions with people if they are able to be mature and rational themselves. If their history demonstrates, however, that they are not, and I gave then plenty of chances then opinion is "if it is a war they want, then it is a war they shall have!" Believe me, Rick and tittyfan and the jestie-girl have made it abundantly clear overtime that they will start with the name calling, and don't give even a quarter of a fuck about logic and stuff. For them then, wiith me, anything goes, with the exception that I only argue position I believe are true, since I believe if you do there will always ultimately be a way to win, but if you deliberately argue false positions someone will call you down.

Geez this post grew!!! Wtf?????

Ill add something else in though. Everyone seems to be talking about fathers and daughters and parents or whatever. How they would never allow their daughter to do this or that.

Please keep in mind that there are those of us dancers that do have good parents who are happily married and wouldnt want their daughter to dance. Problem with someone like me is that I started dancing after I already had a college degree. I had been in the real world for a couple years and I lived on my own, supported myself, and had no children. I have never been molested, beaten, ignored, malnourished, or in any way failed by my parents.

This is the issue: I was beyond that "girl" phase. I was grown in a sense and I made my own decisions. I made a conscious choice to dance after weighing my pros and cons. My father could have done anything to keep me from dancing and it wouldn't have mattered. I did everything I was supposed to do when I lived under his roof and when he paid for college. Guess what? I do my own thing now and I feel like getting a little crazy for once. Not too crazy but enough to satisfy the outlaw in me, just for a few years. You readers get the point

What my parents did for me from a young age is teach me about money and thats why I can choose what I want to do and stay afloat and come out in top. I understand the majority of dancers are in a completely different boat but I felt like pointing out that there are a small few of us that were set up to succeed and in our eyes, we are.

*Gasp!* who let a woman in here?!

In business I have been an unrepentant whore for over 45 years, a very successful whore, I might add.

Stiletto - you are correct, you are in the minority, I was talking more about the girls Rick and Jerikson were debating.

Unfortunately, NY clubs have mostly foreign girls, although there are some Americans. If they are not legal, it puts them in an even tougher situation with people depending on the cash back home. As long as you have places in the world where you can live with $5-$10K a year, they will be willing to do a lot to get their hands on some cash.

These posts and the absurd lengths to which grown men go in "proving" their points is Exhibit A for why the internet is too often a cesspool of self-absorbed nihilism. This thread had a few enlightening points but it was overrun by a bunch of chest-thumping and displaying for God knows whose benefit. All this alpha dog peeing on each other gets pretty old. Does anybody really care about why the Pittsburgh Steelers are the best team EVER and anybody that thinks otherwise is a faggot? And they marshal their "empirical" evidence. That's where you knuckleheads fall in the evolution of reason, yet you self-promote like your life depended on it. And, sadly, maybe it does.

We can't figure out why our political system is dysfunctional and paralyzed. Maybe because it perfectly reflects this snarky, petty, juvenile society that spends hours of time and energy "winning" arguments, demonizing opponents, and doing disgusting victory dances. Think of what the hell could all that "brainpower" do toward finding a cure for cancer or alternative energy sources or a solution for Mideast turmoil?

Thuggish, trash-talking bravado was not an endearing quality of the old Miami Hurricanes. Nor of the tired, old, and repetitive blather here. Take all your nerdy high-fivin' back to freshman debate class where it belongs. And when someone CAN speak knowingly from personal experience (Stiletto), the board goes silent. Maybe, just maybe, someone outside of your echo chamber could shed some light on your world. Or is that too threatening for you?

Seems like your post is guilty of the supposed sins it is supposedly criticizing, larry. Ho-hum.

"We can't figure out why our political system is dysfunctional and paralyzed. Maybe because it perfectly reflects this snarky, petty, juvenile society that spends hours of time and energy "winning" arguments, demonizing opponents, and doing disgusting victory dances."

Larry, that's probably the most intelligent statement I've heard anyone make in a very, very long time.

Right. Save TUSCL! Save the world! (Get a gripe.)

"And when someone CAN speak knowingly from personal experience (Stiletto), the board goes silent."

Now, on the other hand, this statement...

Stiletto merely said, as she usually does, that she's different. Okay, fine. She's an exception. That has nothing to do with the general point we were making regarding society and it's views, in general.

Now, do you have anything useful to add to the discussion, or did you just come here to scold, and from here you're going back to finding a cure for cancer?

I think we should take it to the UN.

"Hey, TUSCL used to be this great think-tank working out such important to the world problem as how to most effectively pay strippers for sex. Now they can no longer even politely discuss such important problems as at what point a stripper actually becomes a whore.

How can civilization progress if answers to these complicated and important questions are not answered politely? Well, wait they are answered, but it's got to be polite dammit!"


Let's keep things in perspective. What we are doing here is not curing cancer. We are just a bunch of PLs who pay hookers for sex at the end of the day (meglamanical delusions of certain members notwithstanding). Who the fuck cares how we go about our discussions? You are not going to break through to biggest idiots here (tittyfuck, jestie-girl, rick-boy, aluretard) by being polite to them and respecting their delusions anyway. Need to knock sledge hammers into them.

Like one I have been seeing 4 years. She stopped dancing 2 years ago and told me "I would rather do this (meeting otc) than dancing." She married her third husband 2 yo ago and has a profile on SeekingArrangement and sexy pics on FB. While she is very available for meetings I can't assume I am only customer.