Off Topic: Didn't know you had to dress up to get atterntion from women

Jpac just be who you are. If you dress casual thats your choice. Your boss stepped over the line when he took that pole. That actually violated your rights at work and a complaint should be lodged. I dress for myself and for what I plan on doing at that time......Pricy restaurant and a Broadway show.....I will dress accordingly.....going to strip club...casual......for work a uniform. Shouldn't matter what ethnicity you dress for.....as I said to start off......Be yourself.

I guess the word ghetto in reference to Afro-Americans isn't a loaded term after all. Oy.

This isn't, of course, GENETIC. People with dark skin color can grow up learning the difference between quality and flash, and have the genetic capacity to understand these issues. And please don't forget to add that people with dark skin colour can learn to become buoyant as well, and the original orator of that statement was for equality as much as anyone whoever walked the planet, so please don't come yelping to me about political correctness.

And yet.. had he made references to trailer parks, wearing a wife-beater, appearing on Cops being held down by policeman while a woman with a black eye in rollers and a housecoat screams "I still love him, don't take him", sporting a mullet and driving an '82 Camaro.. no one would have batted an eye..

Which is to say, just by merely referencing one facet of a race's community that certainly exists, does not denigrate the entire race as a whole... and yet it is taken as such by far too many people due to all the PC nonsense in this country. Ah well..

Hugevlad: sorry if I misunderstood. I had thought you were telling me I shouldn't discuss cultural groups because the group I was discussing happened to be African-American. About that, I would vehemently (though, I hope, politely) disagree. But if you're not saying that? I am sorry for misreading your comment. I do see, now, that you could simply be pointing out NOT the error of MY ways (in your opinion), but the hypocrisy of the BOARD as a whole for decrying you but failing to decry me. My mistake.

Boy that was confusing. And no, "ghetto" doesn't mean African-American, in this context. It is not a racial term, but was used expressly and exactly to convey cultural behaviors rather than racially genetic behaviors. That was the POINT. Low-class is low-class regardless of skin color.

Anyway, do dress up, dude. Even if you're working a semi-manual job, the more you take care of your presentation to fit within the EXPECTATIONS of the viewing audience, the more likely you'll get approval from them. Of course, as we've been discussing in this thread, sometimes the expectations themselves are difficult to read, or even contradictory.

If I were working in your situation, I would get two or three good pair of dark blue "khaki" style pants (the Lee Wrangler outlet, at VF outlets, Google it!, has 'em at $12 apiece around here), and wear a striped or plain polo shirt with a collar, tucked in, (perhaps a white undershirt visible underneath) nice belt, and rubber-soled black lace-up men's shoes (dark socks!). This will not be classy, but will be higher-casual than the casual you are currently describing.

If you want to go a step up from that, get four or five "work button down" shirts. These can be denim or just plain cotton, but with a men's button-down collar. HAVE THEM PROFESSIONALLY LAUNDERED. The "pressed" look turns chicks on. (Really.) If you need to go another step up from that, wear a tie with them.

I could go further. The shoes are probably the first step -- nice, high-quality lace-up shoes, black, polished, but with a clean rubber sole rather than a thin leather sole, seem to me to be at the right level of formality / informality for your situation.

By the way, do you know, that when they say "semi-formal" they mean suit and tie? Yup. A tuxedo is formal, so a suit (one step down from a tux) is half-formal. A blazer with slacks is another step down from that. Business casual is a difficult concept to get right without a lot of expense, perhaps harder to match and more expensive to maintain than semi-formal. For most of my work wardrobe, I own business suits. They aren't "flashy" Armani-type suits; but they aren't as cheap as some of the stuff at Men's Wear House (though I guess I got 25% of my wardrobe there). White normal men's shirts, and normal ties. And the shoes, that's always the foundation of a good wardrobe.

Never wear jeans to work. Not even on casual Friday. Not even to the company softball picnic.

Hugevlad: no, I didn't denigrate african americans. You'll see, if you read the actual text, a very long paragraph about how I don't feel that this is a racial issue at all, but instead, as I made quite clear, a cultural one. That you ignored that, in order to denigrate me for something I didn't say, indicates you're more interested in catching people out and finding offense, than you are in civilized discussion. Sorry that political correctness has gotten so far into your head that you can't hear someone who agrees with you, for your own need to find disagreement.

Jpac: It sounds like they're just trying to help. Maybe they aren't going about it tactfully, but I think you'd be a bad sport to act indignant about it. Better to take it with a sense of humor about yourself (chicks dig that), and maybe even to take some of the advice to heart. Dressing up a little can't hurt in a retail job. What good are your nice clothes doing you in a closet anyway?

hugefladvan: You don't see it because you are not African American. True, not all African American women are like this but the "Ghetto'" ones are. Sadly to some extent his message is true.

Gee, I thought I had it bad. One of the ladies I work with thinks I am too much of a slob at work. But I work a job which is manual labor (order filler for a pharmaceutical warehouse) and like I tell her and anyone that listens, we aren't here to turn each other on. I don't see why any of the women I work with would care and I don't see why any of the ones you work with should, either.

Damn straight you should be pissed off that your boss did that. I think that could be construed as some form of sexual harassment. I would tell your boss AND your bosses boss that you didn't like that they did that and demand some some of apology or compensation or something to that affect - whatever you feel is sufficient.

Although the issue is politically incorrect to discuss in much of America, what you're dealing with here is a ghetto cultural phenomenon.

First, your co-worker and boss really stepped across a line by doing something socially and professionally unacceptable by going around asking others about you.

But second, to the African-American question. Many young black women in North America have learned what can only be termed a "ghetto mentality." They're impressed with men who have a lot of (cheap looking) bling bling and not a lot of class. They think "classy" appearance is achieved by glitziness. Show them a $2,000 Armani suit? They'll ask where the extra-wide lapels are and comment that it's boring and too plain. Show them a new Mercedes limo but take the brand name off of it? They'll ask where the curb feelers and chrome gold-colored plating on the hubcaps are.

This isn't, of course, GENETIC. People with dark skin color can grow up learning the difference between quality and flash, and have the genetic capacity to understand these issues. But, generally, in North America, because of the historic economic disparities and the communities that arise thanks to that, you have ended up among people who don't appreciate the positive signs that YOU give off, of your own value.

Part of the problem is also, YOU are not participating in social norms. We dress up for work. Our society -- whether African American "ghetto" or not -- requires a higher level of conservatism in dress, at the workplace, than you are describing. Unless your job involves significant manual labor -- and I'm guess it doesn't; I'm guessing you're a desk worker -- you should be wearing something nicer than "my casual clothes." So, although the women are reading the situation incorrectly by hoping for drug-dealer bling, their ultimate message is accurate, that you're slacking too.

PS -- yes, DUH, you have to dress up to impress ... wll, anyone at all, female or not.

BookGuy: I am not trying to talk to any female at work and no this is a retail environment not a desk job(a little labor involved). I will agree with what you wrote about the African American society.

WOW. And to think I (and others) jumped on shadowcat for using the term jewing them down. I think book guy denigrated african-americans about seven different ways and naturally had to close with drug dealers, because lordy knows there aren't any white people dealing. Amazingly I am not even gonna hurl any insults, juss to say that was some of the most ridiculous drivel I have evr read anywhere.