Maybe I *have* been doing this too long

gmd,

I mentioned that before in a review comment. When I am out of South Florida, it is difficult for an club I visit to live up to my normal standards. I try to include that comment in my out of town reviews, but I sometimes, well maybe often, forget.

The guy who got a touch of butt probably had a great time. It depends on personal perspective and expectations. The discussion board is so full of talk of mileage, extras, OTC, ITC, HJ, BJ, FS, etc. it's easy to forget that not everyone has that level of expectation for visiting a SC. To each his own.

georg, i live and club in ohio and my expectations and perspective are pretty much the same as yours although seeing them come to fruition has taken a hit recently, the possibility of finding future success keeps my eye on the prize. regarding impressive eye candy, i expect strong two way contact with them too. why should i expect less? i can go almost anywhere and grope average and below females. i want it from the high end girls too. i've had it in the past and i still want it now and in the future!

She let me fuck her butt.

you lucky bastard, I have yet to get buttsex

So what did she let him touch her butt with???

touching her butt, sucking her tits and petting the kitty on the outside are expected in VIP extras include: finger in kitty, licking pussy, hj, bj and fs

Well, george. Should you decide to go up to Alberta, take a jacket. farmerart is a gracious host, but be prepared to pitch in out at the well.

Why is it that you all feel so entitled? I've never broken the rules of my club (or the rules I set for myself based on my comfort levels) and I still make great money. You must all be male models or something to have these girls letting you molest them like that, because where I work, you don't even need to give "extras" to do well...

Bizarre. Also, creepy...

(Mental note to skip dances from Daisy).

The thing is, you can get used to just about anything. If all you've ever had are hands off clubs to visit, then that's all you will know. That guy may think that a club where he gets a little hands on is the best thing ever! Sometimes ignorance is bliss. In my case, I like the girls that don't mind bending the rules...and I love the ones that BREAK them!

"You must all be male models or something to have these girls letting you molest them like that"

Male models? Hardly! We're just really persistent, lol.

Just stay outta Kuma Charmers and we'll all be happy!

Kumasdaisy asked why we feel entitled. I don't. I go to a club with no expectations, but high hopes. Things only happen when the dancer and I agree they should. But kumasdaisy should not feel entitled to unearned money, either...

But kumasdaisy is making money from somebody, and it most likely is not any TUSCL guys. We all have seen the slightly drunk guy or the loud table of young guys. Those are the type of guys that get a little naughty and think they have really seen the dark side. As for me, when you go to a hands-off no extras club because it is the only one around, you have to gear those expectations down so far that you have to be happy with a little incidental contact. Reality is a bitch. If I was ever able to go to a high end club with naked 10s who freely offered a full menu, my head would probably explode.

Kumsadaisy is a bit condescending in her remarks which says more about her than us so called "creeps".

kumasdaisy: "I've never broken the rules of my club (or the rules I set for myself based on my comfort levels) and I still make great money."

Daisy, I think I saw you perform the last time I was in Pennsylvania Amish country. You did the full Amish striptease (took off your apron.)

I fall in the middle of club goers. I have no interest in extras and I have zero desire to ever attend a no-touch club again. I usually scale back my expectations of contact when I travel unless I am in parts of Florida since my home area is Providence, which has full-contact everywhere. At most clubs around here you get more contact having a drink with a dancer than you do in lap dances in most places. Unless you're willing to spend really huge amounts of money in Vegas Providence has more contact than everywhere in Vegas. South Florida has great contact and of course the Inner Room cabaret in Cocoa Beach remains my favorite all around club in America. Despite what DAISY said I don't think we as SC fans have expectations. We just have a mindsext that we're wiiling to pay for this and not for that. If a dancer has rules that conflict with my mindset I wouldn't try to cajole or coerce her into violating her standards, but no way will I pay for anything other than what I want. Also lets realize Daisy said you don't need to do extras to do well where she works, but never actually said she doesn't do them. I will tip a pretty dancer a few bucks at a stage if I am stuck in a non-touch club, but I would never pay for a limited touch dance no matter how pretty the lady is. The one exception would be my last day on earth, because other than that I can wait.

From kumasdaisy's profile: "...I believe strongly in the rights of sex workers and other people in the adult industry."

Doesn't that include the rights of dancers to willingly engage in these activities? If so, I don't see how how you can view the people on the receiving end as "entitled".

Id like to clarify on daisy's post. She's coming at this from a woman's point of view. A dancers point of view. It is true that you can make amazing money even though you don't do extras. Customers at club who ask for extras aren't as common as some may think. I believe customers hope for extras, but I've never had someone get angry or not spend money because they can't get sex. Dancers don't stick around on this site very long. I think that would change if she felt more welcome to share from a dancers point of view without getting jumped on. And from a dancers point of view, some of the posts I've read are creepy and entitled sounding. Not all!..some guys on here are pretty cool. But some make a woman go "yikes"

stiletto, saying daisy was coming at this from a women's/dancer's point of view is not totally correct. she's coming from her point of view. just as our points of view differ here so do dancers povs. the saying "opinions are like assholes, everyone has one" applies here. i don't frequesnt stripperweb but from some quotes/comments posted here that came from there it seems that alot of the strippers have the same attitude about customers that you say we have about strippers. maybe daisy wouldn't get jumped on if she didn't jump first. anyway, i think most povs are pretty much welcome here except for the fart sniffing spammers ;)

Stiletto: what you say is true in that dancers don't stay on here very long. I would say that the max is about 3 months. Sure they run off. This is a customers site aimed at customers. I posted the customers point of view once on stripperweb and they ran me off. I will never post on there again. It served me no purpose anyhow.

@troop: yes, daisy is coming at it from her point of view but also from the viewpoint of a woman and a dancer, unless she isn't a woman or a dancer, then I'll stand corrected. @ shadowcat: yes this is a customer aimed site but I've got many nice pm's stating how its enlightening to have a dancers point of view on the site and they hope I will stay. Maybe you don't feel the same way, just an assumption after your post. No problem either way.

@ both men: I don't frequent stripperweb. I would have to spend some time on it to understand how its run or how it treats male posters.

Stiletto: I really don't care one way or the other. I get my dancers point of view from gridget, my best friend. Just type her name in the search box to read her reviews and comments.

That's great! I will definetly do that!. For those that don't have a gridget, I think I give an excellent dancers point of view and I am gracious to those of you that have been courteous on this.site

@Stiletto25 - I do find your posts to be an interesting addition to the site. Definitely appreciate the point of view. Some dancers can definitely do well without performing any sexual acts. Not everyone here on this site is going to be into a dancer like that, but I've seen firsthand many guys who are. It's not always about the sex.

I agree with Daisy. That's why the hottest women don't give extras... We don't have to!

Daisy and Stilleto I definitely appreciate your posts and opinions. I think Daisey is well within her rights to think what she posted, but to post those thoughts on this discussion is inviting the replies her post received. It's the nature of the Internet.

I read pretty much the same back and forth on a gambling site intended for players, where the industry professionals played the role of Daisy. I also read a similar back and forth on a coupon site for consumers looking to get triple coupon values with Kroger's playing the role of Daisy.

Please keep posting.

On the flip side, my biggest SC annoyance is when the Playboy model-type dancer just walks around the club with her hand out, expecting money just because she looks good. No pole tricks, no slick conversation, no flirting, just begging. That's not even about extras.

@troop: Yeah, sucks when you've had better, and can't anymore. The club scene itself around here ain't that great anymore, except for those places that defy the new law. Good thing the lap dances haven't caught up to the stage yet, though I think it's only a matter of time.

@vm: Hah! I wouldn't last two minutes doing that kind of work. I just barely last the hour in a hotel room! :)

@daisy: Why do I feel entitled? Because I am, to a certain extent. I have the money, and I am entitled to use it any way I please, and any way the dancer will agree to. I know the law disagrees with me, but the law is wrong. I don't force myself on anyone, and do my damnedest to make sure she knows what she's agreeing to, and that it's her choice. I am creepy, fat and ugly, not to mention out of shape, so no male model explanation for why girls do it. Some girls' favorite color is green, and I don't have a problem exchanging that for my favorite color, pink.

@jackanonymous: Exactly.

@stiletto: Re: the commonplace nature of extras and the guys who want them. I suspect that has more to do with the place one works than an absolute across the board statistic. There are a number of places around the country where extras seem to be the norm, and if one isn't getting them, one is getting gypped. Here in Louisville, there are about three or four clubs that should be named "Alice's Restaurant" and a couple where seeing naked tit is an "extra". The rest fall somewhere in between. As far as dancers staying around, you pretty much hit it on the head. I could wish for more sane treatment sometimes, but there have been more than a couple dancers on here, even in my brief tenure, who royally deserved the jumping they got. A few good apples can ruin the barrel.