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OTC and GFE's: Be careful what you wish for.

Wednesday, June 14, 2017 12:00 AM
I've done OTC once with my ATF in the past. I don't visit her club in Baltimore (about 60-90 min away) nearly as often as I used to. Generally they've been 4-5 month intervals but we text each other fairly regularly. Finally I had a break and a chance to go up and see her. We usually have it planned out. Our usual MO is that I bring dinner into the club (which doesn't serve food) for her and me, we spend some quality time together nuzzling at one of the tables or at the bar, and then private rooms for 30 min and a few laps for much of the rest of the evening. Last week, ATF wanted a change of pace. She wanted to have dinner with me before going into the club. We did, at a nice steak restaurant (meeting me at my hotel in a low-key outfit, a long summer dress and flip flops). After, I dropped her off at the club, and then came by later. I did 30 min with her in a private room for the usual fee, we hung out till closing. No overnight was going to happen that night, so no nookie. But ATF asked to meet me for breakfast the next morning out closer to where she lived. We did so (she came in a shorter dress, lower cut, still in flats), and then we spent some time together afterward riding around in my convertible. This is less your usual OTC story than what essentially amounted to a back-to-back dinner date and then a breakfast date with a very pretty woman (divorced MILF), in which I wound up learning a lot more about my ATF than I expected. I have to admit that in the back of my mind I knew this would eventually happen, given we've known each other for well over two years. I thought I was going to share a little bit of my heritage and my profession with her just to make things interesting and her curious about me. But what happened was suddenly a torrent of information from her. Among those things I learned were her name (showing me her profile as a driver for one of those popular ridesharing services), her family background, what she did before stripping, her vacation with her kids, lots of photos with well-known people, and advice on a career change that would allow her to live a nice normal attractive lifestyle. Just from time spent with my ATF in the past, she tends to avoid too much drinking in the club, and apparently seems to be drug-free (no tattoos, no smoking, generally clearheaded, friendly to waitstaff in restaurants, unfailingly polite, and tends to disdain the cokeheads who danced at or managed her former club). So part of the deal with engaging a stripper off the stage is always the fantasy - even if it's pure acting, if she's good she makes both Dr. Libido / L'il Roadworrier / whatever-you-wanna-call-it and yourself feel like the center of the sex universe, for however long you have on the sofa or in the VIP room. If you build a rapport she can offer a decent GFE when not "on the clock" (although her current club has dancer drinks which provide a revenue stream on the backs of customers with a small 40% cut for the dancer). And then maybe OTC and horizontal bop happens. But what happened last week suddenly jolted me, though it took some time to sink in. I suddenly do not think of her as a stripper anymore. I know her name, what her family looks like, her car, what she does when not in the club, and most of all, I'm now getting accustomed to seeing her in something other than quick-to-remove lingerie and 5" platform heels. I have enough info about her that I can google her, access her on LinkedIn, and essentially turn into a Grade A stalker. It looks like we will be doing this again next month, and it looks like we have another restaurant and plans to go to a park the next day already made. My motto of my SC life has always been to let fantasy get in the way of reality. Now for the first time, it's the other way. Yet even with this sudden dose of "real", there was a clear pattern to her sharing so much with me. It seemed like one part of it was for me to know who she was before she began stripping, and the other part of it was apparently to know she was looking for a life after stripping. Knowing I am married, knowing she's a mom, and sensing she's not much for hotel tricks, it became clear she's looking for some sugar-daddy action, at the very least a little low-key sugar-daddy advice, for the cost of meals and of course time in the club. She's not asked me for a retainer yet, so it's just been a matter so far of providing her with company, food and a little evening income at the club in exchange for some sexy fun. While there's only so much advice one (even if he is 25 years older) can give someone who was a married stay-at-home mom for a few years and doesn't have a broad work background beyond the SC, it is clear she is an engaging communicator, and seems to be good about taking care of herself. If anyone could probably "move on" into real life. it's her. The alpha-dog part of me wants to stick to the sex part and know her by her stage name. The beta part of me wants to move this along and see where it goes. I think the alpha-dog route is the safer way to go, and has been my road taken in the past. But when you know a gal for long enough, even in an SC, if they actually like you, at some point it seems like things will take a turn into the friend/sugar-daddy zone. Something I am clearly not prepared for.

20 comments

  • Tiredtraveler
    •
    7 years ago
    It is time to wind this relationship down without pissing her off. By giving you her personal information she wants yours. Even if she is sincere that gives her all the power unless your wife is on board with you hobby. I know it will be hard to walk this thing back but if you do not you won't be better off in the long run. I would slowly back away starting with not meeting her outside of the club decreasing the outside communication on all levels(text and phone calls included) then decrease your visits to the club and start going elsewhere. If she already has your personal information you may already have a serious problem. If she has your real cell number she can get everything about you and could show up on your doorstep. Dancers use stage names for a reason and patrons should do the same for the same reasons. I could be wrong and she actually like you and wants nothing more that what you are willing to provide but??
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    7 years ago
    A relationship with a dancer can take many forms from "wham bam thank you ma'am" to "almost GF like". As far as I'm concerned a "relationship" with a dancer is rooted in $$$ (with rare exceptions) - in my glass-half-empty PL-mind, as long as me giving her $$$ is involved, I don't trust the "genuineness" of the "relationship" but one can still enjoy it for what it is and in some ways can be better than a genuine relationship in that one does not have to be all in and can walk away at any time.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    7 years ago
    Interesting to me how guys can know strip club girls, and be seeing them outside and texting back and forth with them, but still calling them 'ATF'. And then interesting how long they can know them and still be going to the pricey and restrictive strip clubs. And then of creating the high heels and makeup sessions outside, that can be a challenge, but I am convinced that there are ways. One could be photo sessions, even paid photo sessions. Strip clubs offer the ultimate King Herod the Great power trip, See, Want, Get. But with each girl, you only get that once. SJG
  • Roadworrier
    •
    7 years ago
    I could just as easily call her "Ms Regular" as well as ATF. For the record I have another ATF, who happens to be friends with the first ATF as they both danced at the same club at one time and I was a regular at that club, often being with both of them including the unusual step taking a glorious 2 for 1 with them in the 30 min room. Imagine simultaneous DFK and stick shifting being provided to you while having a handful of boobs from one girl and a handful of butt from the other girl, and you can see where that goes. :D The other ATF now lives in NC and I saw her at her club last time I visited there a year ago. Then I saw both of them together back at the first ATF's club up here in Mid-Atlantica about 4 months ago and it was brilliant but also crazy expensive. If anything, OTC costs less if you can do it and maintain both the sexiness and the GFE with no strings attached. But I guess my lesson here is with time, if you keep up the regularity, you end up with more GF and less E.
  • Subraman
    •
    7 years ago
    Heh, the funny thing about all your introspection here is, this is basically my relationship with most of my ATFs. In fact, I can say that backwards: if we reach this type of relationship, this is when I call her an ATF. It can bring about a lot of nice benefits, if it's the kind of experience you're looking for -- Okay, let's talk about the experience for a second. Guys look for lots of experiences, that range from a john just wanting a 15 minute BJ from a streetwalker, to a sugardaddy paying $4000/month to have the illusion that the sugarbaby is a big part of his life, to everything in between. There's no right or wrong... well okay, if it's self-destructive, it's "wrong", but other than that, if you prefer escorts or OTC or whatever, that's great. I think the one caveat here is that the girls can be motivated by many things. Part of it may be that she senses you're a decent guy so you're someone she can vent to (akin to a friendzoned guy -- do not underestimate how badly she might need this), but Papi is absolutely right, whenever there's payment that's always the bedrock of the relationship, and the strippers are not unaware that opening up their lives to you brings an illusion of closeness that may have the side effect of you opening your wallet more. Like I said, this can bring benefits with it, particularly her time, attention, and access (sexual or otherwise) to her, I have tons of great or outright heart-pounding stories that have happened in these types of ATF/customer relationships. I enjoy this, it's kinda-sorta arrangement-ish lite. But if you are either vulnerable to manipulation, or if you NEED the "fantasy" aspect of her being an idealized sex object rather than a person (no judgement intended, but that's the reality), then obviously it's not a good idea.
  • rickdugan
    •
    7 years ago
    Sorry, but I'm still stuck on this: "No overnight was going to happen that night, so no nookie." The rest of that story just became an over-emotional blur after that. Seriously now, she had time to go to dinner with you and even time to meet you for breakfast, but not enough time to help you nut? LOL. More likely she smelled the "beta dog" in you and realized that she could find a way to get paid ITC without having to give you sex. No girl would ever show up to my hotel remotely confused about the need for sex as part of the event, but you took her for a steak instead. Then, after feeding her, you dropped her off at the club and then fed her some more in VIP, all without getting laid. So now here we are. All the rest of this "seeing her as more than a stripper, no fantasy, alpha dog, beta dog, blah blah blah" shit is nonsense. Simply put, she's making you feel special and you are getting emotional about it. This sounds like the beginning of a romance hustle, which you have let her know you are vulnerable to by getting too emotional with her. If I were you, I would walk away now before things get out of hand.. In any event, good luck and thanks for sharing.
  • HungryGiraffe
    •
    7 years ago
    Thanks for sharing. Only suggestion is to think about what you want and why. If you don't want OTC sex, what is important to you?
  • Roadworrier
    •
    7 years ago
    Screw all this, think I'll head to Tijuana (HK club, etc.) one of these days.......Think I need a vacation.
  • MrDeuce
    •
    7 years ago
    Subraman put it very well: ". . . whenever there's payment that's always the bedrock of the relationship, and the strippers are not unaware that opening up their lives to you brings an illusion of closeness that may have the side effect of you opening your wallet more." Those of us who tend to get emotionally attached to favorite strippers, like me and (dare I say it) you, should be aware that when they seem to be opening up to us, it's often a ploy to separate us from our money. There's nothing wrong with seeing a stripper OTC and getting somewhat involved in her life. Just keep in mind that almost everything they do is about the money, not about you.
  • Roadworrier
    •
    7 years ago
    I think there's a definite consensus here (and thank you all for reading into this). I think there's also the unwritten part of this, which is I spent the better part of a decade away from strip clubs (pretty much from 2001 to 2012) and instead, when traveling to places like Dubai, partaking of the "businesswomen" in hotel bars/discos, a core part of the nightlife scene, at least until recently when all the young starlets and millennial tons started flooding in. Most of the gals were Russian or from the former Soviet satellites (usually Kyrgyzstan, Belarus or Ukraine), in later years more gals were from China. So I've had plenty of takeout, For the most part you (as a westerner) could easily bring them back to your hotel (or apartment), as once the doors are closed, there's nothing for the LE to see. I rarely paid more than $270 (sometimes way less) for several hours (or overnight) companionship. Some of the gals were spectacular, others were average, but my muscle got some milkshake action for several years, that's for sure. International travel did have its perks. And occasionally I'd take the same girl multiple times or outcall them, meeting em at malls, Starbucks, etc.....and lived to tell about it. So thinking about it, this just all seems like such a f**ed up way of playing around. God bless Amurrica.
  • vajmon
    •
    7 years ago
    I agree with those that said it's time to wind that relationship down. She sounds like a long time professional hustler. By meeting OTC just for a "date" without sex and sharing her personal info with you she is trying to sucker you in to gain your trust. Once she does that and gets your info she's gonna fuck with your head and turn you into a human ATM. I don't see much upside for you but I see a lot of downside since you're married, namely losing half of what you own if not more! My advice is stick to OTC with strippers under 25 that don't have kids. They're not interested in anything long term and just like to fuck and have fun. And it's much easier to have a Sugar Daddy relationship with them as there's nothing emotional involved on your part or theirs, it's just about sex and $$$!
  • shailynn
    •
    7 years ago
    She's just trying to get into your pockets more and isn't assertive enough to figure out a direct way to offer it. Also there are girls out there that can drain a mans pocket without fucking them OTC, this may be a line she's trying to tow.
  • skibum609
    •
    7 years ago
    Can we start a pool on when he is asked for the first time to "loan" her money?
  • HarryJones
    •
    7 years ago
    This is SLIGHTLY similar to my situation but as you all know, I am young and my girl is just 4 years older than me. Might be some sort of emotional scam since this dude is a lot older than her and he's married, but we can't be sure. Maybe she is just looking for a little bit of advice and guidance from someone mature who has actually experienced life...whilst still giving him a good time legally and morally correct ITC
  • thereview
    •
    7 years ago
    It really sounds like a mix of a few things. Yes, she wants to get the perks of life without having to pay for them. Roadworrier, if you want the OTC perks, whether paying or not then just initiate it. At the end of the day, you're already familiar with each other and it won't ruin anything. Just don't go off demanding (asking) it in a way that you don't normally demand (ask) of her. Maintain the same ego you present at the club and your OTC will be fine. As you mentioned above, it's also easy to get women when you travel--one of my favorite things about traveling is experiencing the local culture. If you feel like you want her as a mistress or more instead of just an OTC, then that's all up to you, just now you know more about the person you're sharing your time with. For an OTC, is if she's good enough to get you going and you're both up to it, just go for it. If you just want to be FTF, they'll likely go with it to either to pay the bills or maybe you're actually able to show her a good time and she'll do a few rounds with you here and there just for the sake of it. If you don't get what you want from your OTC, change the dynamic of the relationship or end it. if she doesn't meet you needs, you stop seeing her. i've grown up with friends, schoolmates, coworkers, etc. that were always or were at some point while i knew them strippers, b-grade actresses, b-grade models, mistresses, etc. so i'm used to having girls around with loose morals. Honestly, i thought it was jut a handful of girls, but eventually i kept going to parties where girls would put out just to get popular, let themselves get pimped, etc. so to me it pretty much became a normal normal way of life. They make normal days watching TV more fun, and just like other girls with loose morals, they have their moments of being whiny or psycho, but we all partied with enough girls so we've seen it all before. i for one enjoy regularly dating dancers and even professional providers since they're attractive and aren't overly conservative with their bodies--i wouldn't marry one, but i'd gladly have an on-going relationship with her.
  • ccarter
    •
    7 years ago
    Wanting a sugar daddy(s) is certainly a possible motive for giving away the personal info. I feel many of them are worried about the forced early retirement for most girls in that profession, and she may be hoping you consider leaving your current for her. Happens all the time, in bars with non-strippers, many even come out and say it very early into the "friendship."
  • MikeRoberts2
    •
    7 years ago
    Well I had an OTC for years, more like a GFE back in 2013-14. She would spend 3-4 hours with me, be it going out, having sex, chatting, whatever, sometimes overnight. I gave her $120 for the night. She shared everything with me. I knew all her personal info. She said she shared it because she trusted me completely. We would make out. I trained her as my sex slave. Made her give blowjob on me for entire hour on a regular basis while I trained her on sexual techniques. We have sex without a condom. And she was one of the most beautiful women I've seen. I thought I was going to marry her. I was so into her. She said we could have sex for free, if I was ever broke, but I would have to drive to her place. Never took her up on it. One day, she just married someone else. Moral of the story, don't get your hopes up on a stripper. If she is asking you to pay for her time, no matter how small it is, she'll never be your wife. Good friend, maybe. Good long relationship, potentially. But never wife. I'm trying to save you the pain I went through. She broke my heart when she left.
  • MikeRoberts2
    •
    7 years ago
    @roadworrier. She hasn't made her intentions clear. You are assuming WAY TOO MUCH especially when it comes to a stripper. Stick with the sex part. If you are paying for it, it's not going anywhere. Guaranteed.
  • franktl
    •
    7 years ago
    MikeRoberts2 is right, if you paying for it, it's not going anywhere. Also, she's probably priming you for some sob story later on to ask for money.
  • latinalover69
    •
    7 years ago
    MikeRoberts2 consider yourself lucky bro!
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