A Tough Topic: Sex Trafficking
Leonard313
Michigan
Okay, I hate to do this on a site where most of us are very content just thinking about the mileage we might get the next time we're at the club…but this has been in the news lately and I just feel like there's nowhere else to post it where anyone might have a clue about this type of thing.
Lately there has been a lot of talk about sex trafficking. A couple young women ended up dead, a local reporter did a big "story/expose" about underage girls and how a lot of times they are picked up in mall parking lots, gang raped, forced drugs to get them addicted, threatened, beaten, and essentially enslaved.
Now, many of us have gotten "more than just a dance" at the strip club. Some of us have taken the experience OTC. Some of us have used escort services. Some of us have visited a "massage parlor". And some of us have even picked up a street walker. For most men, this is not something they do regularly. Most men it might be a brief encounter in a VIP room or at a bachelor party or maybe a trip to Vegas. But for those of us without the love life and sex life we want…for those of us sex addicted or love addicted or maybe those of us that never really "sewed our wild oats" in our youth…we may frequent these establishments/individuals more often than the general male population.
The BACKSTORY:
Back in the day, getting sex for money was rather easy. Prostitution was rampant and it was almost expected that men would visit a brothel from time to time. In this country, that changed as the twentieth century came and went and back in the day, prostitution was rather rare outside the inner cities. Porn was only prevalent in magazines and a rare "stag film". And escorts were rare and expensive…for those elite businessmen and congressmen.
But the internet has changed everything. Porn is now almost unavoidable. It feeds us images that not only is okay to force **** a young girl, tied to a pole, while her brother watches and then joins in….but most of the images go so far as to say thats what most women out there ENJOY. For some reason, in the porn universe, women love giving blow jobs about as much as they love breathable air. And you don't have to beg them to let you put it in their butt…they beg YOU to put it in their butt. And as we've become desensitized to this constant perversion…suddenly Craigslist, Backpage, and Redbook have replaced those old little periodicals you'd get out of the newspaper machines. And it's not just phone sex….it's actual women, willing to do just about anything for $40-$600.
The PROBLEM:
Human trafficking is real. Not all these women decided to make a "career choice" and become cock holsters and pin cushions for the desperate men out there. Some of them were kidnapped, some wound up there and can't find their way out, and some are so addicted to drugs it's a means to an end.
So where are the cops? It's SO EASY to find an escort or bust a stripper giving OTC/VIP treatments/or a masseuse giving happy endings…all ya need is an internet connection or to go to one of the HUNDREDS of massage parlors in the area. And the day of having to find that ONE stripper that went the extra mile…not in Detroit or LA….it's more of a challenge to find the one that DOESN'T! So where are the cops?
Well, they don't care. They know it's there…some of them partake. And if they do bust a gal for solicitation, it's a brief stop at the police station and a release. And the John gets a fine or a ticket. And thats that. The only time police really give a ****….is if kids are involved. And even then, it's hard to make the case that the John KNEW how old she was…and it's hard to even get the underaged ones to turn on their pimps/traffickers.
The New Development:
As kids are being more and more brought into this lifestyle, some congressmen and Senators have started drafting legislation that would punish Johns more than in the past. Other countries have also tried this approach. Instead of locking up the whores, you let them be and come down HARD on the Johns. The new potential legislation would make ANY act of solicitation a potential felony. It would be at the discretion of the prosecutor if it was a first offense; but all subsequent offenses would be mandatory felonies.
MY TAKE: As someone who has probably paid for sex with about 20 different strippers, escorts, masseuses, and fellow orgy goers…I feel this is going to make lives terrible for Johns while not doing much to stop the problem. I feel a better way would be to offer rewards to anyone that reports the solicitation of a potential minor. I personally have seen one escort that I "thought" might be underaged. I also so at least 2 situations where "perhaps" the women were being trafficked. If the local authorities had a 1-800 number and a $50-$500 (discrete) reward to anyone that provides information that leads to the rescue of a minor or arrest of a pimp/trafficker…and it was LAW that they could not come after you for fines/legal action/etc…I think they'd make more progress and actually arrest the SOURCE of the problem rather than they resulting symptom.
We've tried to fight alcohol by banning it and going after the suppliers and users, only to see it legal again. We tried to ban drugs but are now seeing states begin to legalize recreational use. We've put non-violent offenders behind bars, only to see them eventually leave and become criminals because thats what the prison system does to innocent, non-violent folks…if they survive it. But the biggest problem for "Johns" is there is NO lobby to protect them. There is NO group of people standing up and saying, "hey, Johns aint so bad." And every time some guy makes a good argument that just because he was drunk and pissed in the street…that doesn't make him a sex offender…or when a John points out that he simply got a BJ from a gal he knew and gave her $50…all it takes is ONE young girl telling horror stories of how she was gang-raped and forced into sex with 15 men…and society condemns us men.
And don't look to women for help. Normally they'd argue that women should be allowed to sell "their goods" if they are of age…that it's a "women's rights" issue. But if the only one getting harmed is men? Men who sexualize and objectify women? And don't look to housewives…they hate prostitution more than anything. Because prostitution allows their husbands to get laid when the housewives aren't into it. They want men crawling on hands and knees begging for sex….not being able to go to any strip club and get it for $200.
I don't know what the answer is or whats coming. As a father and a decent human being, or as decent as I can manage, I would be willing to give up anything if I thought it would stop just one underage girl from getting abducted, raped, and forced into prostitution. And I personally would do whatever I could to report to authorities if I came across some pimp or obvious case of trafficking. I just don't think going after Johns is going to solve the problem. Men's desire for sex with young women is more basic than their desire for alcohol or drugs. And I think the end result of this type of legislation is that it drives the problem underground. And it takes productive members of society and turns them into felons.
Lately there has been a lot of talk about sex trafficking. A couple young women ended up dead, a local reporter did a big "story/expose" about underage girls and how a lot of times they are picked up in mall parking lots, gang raped, forced drugs to get them addicted, threatened, beaten, and essentially enslaved.
Now, many of us have gotten "more than just a dance" at the strip club. Some of us have taken the experience OTC. Some of us have used escort services. Some of us have visited a "massage parlor". And some of us have even picked up a street walker. For most men, this is not something they do regularly. Most men it might be a brief encounter in a VIP room or at a bachelor party or maybe a trip to Vegas. But for those of us without the love life and sex life we want…for those of us sex addicted or love addicted or maybe those of us that never really "sewed our wild oats" in our youth…we may frequent these establishments/individuals more often than the general male population.
The BACKSTORY:
Back in the day, getting sex for money was rather easy. Prostitution was rampant and it was almost expected that men would visit a brothel from time to time. In this country, that changed as the twentieth century came and went and back in the day, prostitution was rather rare outside the inner cities. Porn was only prevalent in magazines and a rare "stag film". And escorts were rare and expensive…for those elite businessmen and congressmen.
But the internet has changed everything. Porn is now almost unavoidable. It feeds us images that not only is okay to force **** a young girl, tied to a pole, while her brother watches and then joins in….but most of the images go so far as to say thats what most women out there ENJOY. For some reason, in the porn universe, women love giving blow jobs about as much as they love breathable air. And you don't have to beg them to let you put it in their butt…they beg YOU to put it in their butt. And as we've become desensitized to this constant perversion…suddenly Craigslist, Backpage, and Redbook have replaced those old little periodicals you'd get out of the newspaper machines. And it's not just phone sex….it's actual women, willing to do just about anything for $40-$600.
The PROBLEM:
Human trafficking is real. Not all these women decided to make a "career choice" and become cock holsters and pin cushions for the desperate men out there. Some of them were kidnapped, some wound up there and can't find their way out, and some are so addicted to drugs it's a means to an end.
So where are the cops? It's SO EASY to find an escort or bust a stripper giving OTC/VIP treatments/or a masseuse giving happy endings…all ya need is an internet connection or to go to one of the HUNDREDS of massage parlors in the area. And the day of having to find that ONE stripper that went the extra mile…not in Detroit or LA….it's more of a challenge to find the one that DOESN'T! So where are the cops?
Well, they don't care. They know it's there…some of them partake. And if they do bust a gal for solicitation, it's a brief stop at the police station and a release. And the John gets a fine or a ticket. And thats that. The only time police really give a ****….is if kids are involved. And even then, it's hard to make the case that the John KNEW how old she was…and it's hard to even get the underaged ones to turn on their pimps/traffickers.
The New Development:
As kids are being more and more brought into this lifestyle, some congressmen and Senators have started drafting legislation that would punish Johns more than in the past. Other countries have also tried this approach. Instead of locking up the whores, you let them be and come down HARD on the Johns. The new potential legislation would make ANY act of solicitation a potential felony. It would be at the discretion of the prosecutor if it was a first offense; but all subsequent offenses would be mandatory felonies.
MY TAKE: As someone who has probably paid for sex with about 20 different strippers, escorts, masseuses, and fellow orgy goers…I feel this is going to make lives terrible for Johns while not doing much to stop the problem. I feel a better way would be to offer rewards to anyone that reports the solicitation of a potential minor. I personally have seen one escort that I "thought" might be underaged. I also so at least 2 situations where "perhaps" the women were being trafficked. If the local authorities had a 1-800 number and a $50-$500 (discrete) reward to anyone that provides information that leads to the rescue of a minor or arrest of a pimp/trafficker…and it was LAW that they could not come after you for fines/legal action/etc…I think they'd make more progress and actually arrest the SOURCE of the problem rather than they resulting symptom.
We've tried to fight alcohol by banning it and going after the suppliers and users, only to see it legal again. We tried to ban drugs but are now seeing states begin to legalize recreational use. We've put non-violent offenders behind bars, only to see them eventually leave and become criminals because thats what the prison system does to innocent, non-violent folks…if they survive it. But the biggest problem for "Johns" is there is NO lobby to protect them. There is NO group of people standing up and saying, "hey, Johns aint so bad." And every time some guy makes a good argument that just because he was drunk and pissed in the street…that doesn't make him a sex offender…or when a John points out that he simply got a BJ from a gal he knew and gave her $50…all it takes is ONE young girl telling horror stories of how she was gang-raped and forced into sex with 15 men…and society condemns us men.
And don't look to women for help. Normally they'd argue that women should be allowed to sell "their goods" if they are of age…that it's a "women's rights" issue. But if the only one getting harmed is men? Men who sexualize and objectify women? And don't look to housewives…they hate prostitution more than anything. Because prostitution allows their husbands to get laid when the housewives aren't into it. They want men crawling on hands and knees begging for sex….not being able to go to any strip club and get it for $200.
I don't know what the answer is or whats coming. As a father and a decent human being, or as decent as I can manage, I would be willing to give up anything if I thought it would stop just one underage girl from getting abducted, raped, and forced into prostitution. And I personally would do whatever I could to report to authorities if I came across some pimp or obvious case of trafficking. I just don't think going after Johns is going to solve the problem. Men's desire for sex with young women is more basic than their desire for alcohol or drugs. And I think the end result of this type of legislation is that it drives the problem underground. And it takes productive members of society and turns them into felons.
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17 comments
I want to legalize prostitution. If it's legal, prostitutes won't be breaking any laws and the police will protect them the same way they protect strippers. There are very, very few cases of women forced to work at strip clubs but there are many cases of pimps forcing women to work as prostitutes. It's kind of hard for a woman to go to the cops and say, "I broke the law....." and that's why pimps get away with it.
If you just want to keep awareness levels up fine, but you might have actual traction at the various escorting sites around the Web. While there are plenty of independents in that world, they are familiar with the Backpage-type milieu which I am given to understand where you will find more sex trafficking cases. Try eccie.net for starters and ask for help there spreading the message maybe?
I wasn't saying sex trafficking was a 1 to 1 relation to strip clubs. I've just found that many men that frequent strip clubs tend to be interested in sex. Many that would pay for sex inside the club, tend to be willing to pay for it OTC. And if you're willing to have sex with a stripper in a hotel room…many times that stripper also works as an escort…which can lead to purchasing escort services, etc…
I personally prefer strip clubs. You get a show, a variety, a choice of women. And there's a bit of "mystery" (unless it's Tijuana) as to whether they will "go all the way" for $$$. AND…it's a relatively safe environment…much less likely to be the target of a sting or raid. And the women are at least somewhat screened in terms of at the least minimal employability. The downside is expense. It's $10 to get in the door, you're dropping about $20 in drinks, another $20 in stage tipping, and $45-$90 in lap dances…thats $140 before you ever go VIP. Now add another $145-$225 for sex…$25-$50 for a tip…you're out $nearly $400 for a fun evening.
Massage parlors vary…could run $285 for full on sex…plus a nice massage…or you could pay $125 and get a very bad massage and just an hj. Hit or miss.
Compare that to an escort that will give you a quickie for $80-$100. There's "mystery"…no entertainment…just in, out, over.
But the reason for the article was more for the fellas like myself…who have, do, will, may partake in those variety of services…does it concern you? Do you ever worry that you're contributing to "human trafficking"? Do you think there's a way to stop it? Do you agree with politicians that think going after Johns will be effective?
I've always looked at it as an exchange of services for money. I never force anyone. But there have been times I worry. I met a young escort once…she claimed to be 23. She sure didn't look 23!! She was clearly addicted to drugs. What was the story? Could I have done something to help? I don't know.
More than a few times…massage parlors…women that can't speak English…obviously someone is importing them from Vietnam or somewhere like that. Are they "trafficked" Was I contributing to the problem? Could I have done anything to help them? I don't know.
So I guess the article was just something to talk about…toss around. Thanks.
The Asian massage parlors/escorts is another matter though. There are a few well known agencies that rotate these girls weekly. They do not speak English, and they provide the service but are decidedly not enjoying it more often than not. Prices are cheap: $150 an hour is common. I do not partake of this service myself, but I do know that many of these girls are underage as well.
It's important that LE makes a distinction between this part of the sex industry and the voluntary escorts working from home or a cheap room. And the SC world is really completely different. Unfortunately the politicians tend to lump all sex work into one category which doesn't serve any purpose at all as far as I can tell.
I've never been a customer at an AMP but friends describe non-English speaking young females who seem to be pretty closely "supervised". I've come to grips with my own hypocrisy regarding fucking drug addicted dancers, but i can't deal with the whole underage problem. I don't encounter "trafficked" women to the best of my knowledge, but certainly see the nature of the problem
And this view of women being hopeless victims – def there are scenarios like that – but most of them are as aggressively pursuing custies and custies are pursuing them – I don’t recall having to try really hard to convince dancers in SCs to give me dances – often times they are the ones pushing and doing the convincing.
Making sex for $$$ go away does not necessarily mean the end of exploitation and abuse of women by some men.
“… some congressmen and Senators have started drafting legislation that would punish Johns more than in the past. Other countries have also tried this approach. Instead of locking up the whores, you let them be and come down HARD on the Johns …â€
I’m not “Mr. International†– but it seems to me most industrialized countries (and many not so industrialized) have much more lax laws w.r.t. prostitution including many that do not criminalize it at all as opposed to the U.S. – if you are talking about coming down “HARD†on “johns†that have sex w/ minors or that force women to have sex with them – then sure – that is different.
With that said, a few states have passed tougher laws focusing on johns, but I believe that the harshest penalties are being reserved for johns who solicit minors.
Now I agree that applying serious criminal charges when two grown adults are involved is simply ludicrous, but I have a hard time disagreeing with those provisions focusing on johns who solicit minors. Honestly, I have zero fucking sympathy for a grown man who gets caught with his dick in a 15 year old girl, regardless of whatever excuses he may have.
I was referring to a state issue in California where a Republican state senator was proposing a change to the laws in California where ANY prostitution would result in a potential felony conviction for the John. The judge would have discretion IF it was a 1st offense. For subsequent offenses it would be a mandatory felony.
The law does not specify trafficking and/or underage "victims" nor does it increase penalties against the prostitutes themselves nor their pimps. It is primarily focused at johns.
It's not the law now, it is being proposed/drafted. Laws were already strengthened in 2012 when the voters passed a proposition that would link pimps and business owners with the human trafficking laws. It also would register pimps as sex offenders.
In my opinion, to echo a lot of conversation here…it seems that law enforcement should focus on traffickers, rapists, kidnappers, and pimps rather than going hard after johns. I feel that going hard after johns only drives the problem underground.
Take last night for example. I met with a young lady at a hotel. After meeting her and spending some time with her…I realized she wasn't the woman that answered the phone. I asked her who answered the phone and she said "boss…my boss." She spoke little English but from what I could gather has been in the country for 4 months and within the last 4 weeks has started working as an escort.
Well, as a "john"….imagine if I didn't have to fear being charged with soliciting a prostitute and my name added to the sex offender registry. Imagine if I could, on my way out, tell the front desk or call a hotline or even flag down a passing police officer. I could have possibly improved her situation or at least put her "bosses" behind bars where they belong. But nope. It's a shame.
There was a study done a few years back about sex trafficking in Atlanta which focused on Asian massage parlors. It report got a lot of sympathy for the working girls. AMPs were raided and it made great press for the APD. Local news stations got some titillating coverage during sweeps week, and a bunch of Asian girls got arrested, or rescued, depending on your point of view. When another group looked at the report and its underlying data it showed that if the report was correct then nearly 1 in 4 Asians in Atlanta were trafficked. It also numerous other flaws in the report. This go nearly attention from the media.
A few years ago indoor prostitution was not illegal in Rhode Island. this was due to how poorly the legislation was written. It specifically prohibited street walking but nothing else. It was challenged because the customer was to be charged with a misdemeanor and the prostitute was to be charged with a felony. As this got more and more media attention it became an embarrassment for the state. The state was able to quickly pass a law to close the loophole. First thing the cops did was to bust escorts. They then set up stings to catch the customers. They actually got the Patriots mascot. Then they went after the AMPs and arrested a number of women. The problem was none of them were trafficked or were doing this against their will. Again that got little news coverage.
They also use the argument that money does not equal consent. It basically says that when you exchange money for sex, you are not getting the consent to have sex. It is in fact a form of rape. No women can consent to being a prostitute no matter how intelligent she is, well educated she is, it just cannot be done. This is an insane argument used as a means to get around the issue of free will and choice.
If you build a police and legal machine for this then you will have to feed the machine. We have the highest prison population in the world for a reason. Just think about it.
They recently also had an embarrassing case in Hawaii when they tried to toughen prostitution laws and found a clause in the law that allows undercover police to actually have sex with prostitutes during the course of an investigation. Originally the legislature attempted to remove it but cop organizations lobbied to keep it in claiming in some cases they needed to actually penetrate the hookers in order to complete the investigation.
I can't make that up…just google it. I'm NOT kidding!
On the radio I heard a lady from some anti-prostitution organization and she was going on and on about how California is on the "cutting edge" by proposing legislation aimed at the consumers of prostitution (johns). But like you said, these people just don't "get it". They assume that every prostitute is forced into it and pimped. They forget that MOST strippers and escorts are doing it for drugs…some that became addicted on their own, others that were fed the drugs to make them slaves.
I HATE human trafficking. I hate the pimps and the gangs and smugglers and the ancestral parents that would push or drag innocent women or go so far as to kidnap innocent girls. I cringe at every horrible story I hear. And I feel bad every time I end up in a situation where I pay for sex and get any indication that the woman may not be the one truly profiting from it. And I would APPLAUD any government that would be so brave as to legalize prostitution, make it safe, disease free, and taxable. I'd applaud them for making prostitutes valuable workers rather than trash. I'd applaud police organizations for going after pimps and traffickers and gangs and kidnappers rather than hookers and johns (easy targets). I'd love the day when I could meet up with an escort, and if I have any suspicions, I could report it with no fear of retribution nor liability.
But we can't even legalize pot in this country…so I guess it's a pipe dream to assume we'd take that step. Despite the fact that I could find a prostate/escort an hour…every day….with nothing more than a cell phone and internet connection….we still live with the hypocrisy that it's only okay to bang escorts when you're a cop in Hawaii.
Oh yeah…and worse story I ever heard from an escort…was a cop, plain clothes, that after going to her room showed her his badge, called 2 fellow police officers, then proceed to rape her and beat her then stole her money and left. And thats not uncommon. Many escorts will have a story or two of where an officer offered leniency in exchange for sexual favors. Hypocrisy.
That guy who pimped out that 13yo at Cheaters in Providence was a pro at what he did and had fake photo ID and likely had a wink-wink deal with the Cheater manager who was to lazy to check the girl out. I read he had been in and out of east coast blue state jails and never really held accountable for underage trafficking. That is typical if the liberal mentality that sees nothing wrong with underage girls fucking 40 year old senators or homosexual men seducing 15 year old boys. They have no respect for the law and think they can pick and choose what applies to themselves and their friends.
A prime example of this is the Providence RI state senator when a citizen asked him why he voted to violate the U.S. Constitution the senator turned and looked at the citizen and said "GO FUCK YOURSELF" then the aid leaned toward the citizen and repeated "Go Fuck Yourself" pushed the microphone back turned and walked off.
Politicians now consider themselves to be above the law, do not give a crap about what laws are needed or work, and unless there is a scandal to exploit only are interested in lining their own pockets and live like royalty.
Vote-em all out.