Stripping is a Business, keep it that way.

8/18/2010 2:26:09 PM

Reading some of the discussion threads made me think about the relationship between strippers and patrons, especially as it deals with the concept of an All-Time Favorite (ATF). 
 
First, I have been going to clubs since I was 16, so about 32 years.  At different times in my life I have gone as a single guy, engaged, married, and now divorced.  I have dated strippers, slept with more than a couple, been friends with them, and even, for a short time, worked as a DJ at one club I had part ownership in.  Getting to travel, I have been in clubs all over the country.  So, my background is pretty extensive. 
 
Still, I go to clubs for much the same reason most of you do, I like naked women who treat me nice and strip for me.  Sometimes, I like to take them home, the chase is fun. 
 
There is nothing wrong with having a current favorite girl.  But, be careful, strippers are working to make money and making a patron feel "special" so they can get you to buy more dances, drinks, VIP time, buy them presents, or even borrow money is what they do for a living.  Don't believe for a second that most of these women feel the same about you. 
 
The worst mistake a regular/patron can make is getting emotionally tied to a dancer thereby letting the little head do the thinking for you.  That mistake will cost you a lot of money and, if you have a wife or gf, your relationship.  Keep your big head in the game and reason it out, it is no surprise that the hot guy with just $40 on him is not getting attention from the dancers, while the ugly older dude with a cash wad is being treated like Hugh Hefner.  The dancers do this for the money, and there is nothing wrong with that.  I am OK looking, but I looked a lot better when I was 22.  Why do I get more attention in a strip club today?  Because I have a lot more money. 
 
So, if a girl that I like (usually someone who does a good lap dance and can hold a decent conversation) leaves, so what?  Some other girl can have my money.  I am not bothered by it. 
 
Why would you follow a girl to another club, especially a rat hole, just to see her?  Danger is not my middle name, I prefer a club in a safe and decent area and don't need to wonder into a ghetto for a lap dance and a conversation.  
 
My guess is most guys who get attached to dancers are young and mistake hormones for feelings.  A piece of advice from someone who has already learned, in some cases the hard way, about the adult entertainment world.  Don't get an ATF, keep if professional, and enjoy your time without getting too attached.

20 comments

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dudeanonymous

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14 years ago

I've never understood the ATF thing.  If you want a girlfriend, get a girlfriend.  Although there are exceptions to every rule, becoming emotionally attached to someone you meet via the sexual services industry just doesn't seem that smart.

CCRiderm

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14 years ago

Men follow the best blow job.  You can't beat talent.  <img src="/editor/images/smiley/msn/tounge_smile.gif" alt="" />

bhunter5252

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14 years ago

well done Mr. skeets

theoggonzalez

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14 years ago

The whole point to going to a strip club is to leave. She gets money, I get satisfied, she leaves. What can be better than that? You don't have to deal with her nagging, her parents, or even her problems. I paid for the stripper to be an object of sex, and she's cool with it. The stripper knows she is an object. It's a win win. If you become emotionally attached to an object then you are defeating the purpose of  her job - to be the object of sex.

overnights

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14 years ago

Wow Skeets...without going into details about it--I needed to read what you wrote tonight. Even for someone like me who has been doing the "club scene" off & on for many years, you have really given some good advice.

rickdugan

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14 years ago

Yeah, revolutionary.  Really. 
 
No regular SC hound, no matter how hardened or cynical, is completely immune to getting caught up in some girl.  It doesn't mean that you don't keep enough of a head to prevent it from going too far, but to think that you are immune to meeting that girl that just seems to have your number is ludicrous. 
 
My game spreads over 40 clubs during approx. 80-100 nights per year (and have been for the last several) and I can't remember the names of half of the strippers I fucked just since this time last year, so I know something about which I speak.  Normally my game is a very simple "pump and dump", but once in a great while I meet a girl that makes my head spin and my judgement a little cloudier.  It happens to everyone at some point.  For every hound, there is some girl out there that just has his ticket. 
 
The best way to manage these things is not to claim that it can't happen, which is crap, but rather just to roll with it  AND keep your head on your shoulders.  It always runs its course, but in the meantime just don't do anything too stupid (or costly).

steve229

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14 years ago

 If I remember my Maslow right, sexual intimacy is higher on the hierarchy of needs than sex, which would explain why some value ATFs more (even if they know on some level its just the illusion of intimacy).  

skeets35

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14 years ago

Rod8432

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14 years ago

Skeets35 hits on a classic duality we all possess, and in more areas than just SC ATFs - the conflict between our emotion and reason. I always think of this when I see the high and mighty fall over some stupid, emotional entanglement or lapse in judgment (think Tiger Woods or Eliot Spitzer). And it doesn't always involve sex. Greed, envy, grudges, petulance, impulsiveness - they're all out there ready to trip us up. 
 
These weakness come into play when we misunderstand reality (e.g., the true nature of SCs) and think we're somehow above it - that "this time" it's different. We think, "I feel lucky," or "I understand other strippers are only out for the money, but my ATF really likes me." When we do this, we're acting with a foreshortened perception. We can't see all the PLs out there at any given moment being pumped for money by other dancers, and even our ATFs when we're not around. So our "data," so to speak, comprises what we see when we're involved in the momentary transaction, which is then enhanced by hope, illusion, and denial. 
 
Even understanding this duality, I still fall victim to it, which bugs the crap out of me. I take it so far so as to when I see my ATF sitting and flirting with another PL, I think that she's "acting" with him, but when she's with me, it's authentic - she really likes me. And because she's young, smart, gorgeous, and naked, I'm feeling like a million bucks while thinking this. There's a stubborn part of my brain that won't let me think my thoughts are a total illusion, because, I suppose, all important parts of my brain need to be placated to maintain some semblance of cognitive harmony. As a result, my brain's core driver for intimacy (which steve229 mentions) will not be discounted, and my sense of dignity/respect, says I can't just be another PL. 
 
I imagine this is also how it must be for gamers, cheaters, or n'er do-wells of any stripe. They must "justify" their motives in order to participate in the behavior, and NOT think of themselves as a bad person. Nobody wakes up thinking "I'm a bad or worthless person." No, we instead think, "I may do something today that others/society may disapprove of, but I want whatever pleasure/money/power etc., it'll bring me. So, I'll defer my actions to something that seems acceptable - such as I'm not a PL like other guys in this club. My ATF really likes me."<input type="hidden" id="gwProxy"></input><input type="hidden" id="jsProxy" onclick="jsCall();" />
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skeets35

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14 years ago

Rod, that is a hell of a post! 
 
Perception vs. reality is how ATF's develop.  Once you understand that and use it to guide you, going to SC is much easier.  There is nothing wrong with having a favorite, but keep her at arms length.

georgmicrodong

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14 years ago

The emotional involvement, as opposed to entanglement, which is the phenomenon I think skeet is describing here, is what makes the sex better for me, thus the status of ATF.  I know that I hold no illusions about her fidelity to me, or the likelihood she'll stick around when the money runs out.  She fucks like a rabbit, and enjoys it, thus I enjoy it that much more.  Yeah, I'm disappointed when she's not available, but it's not nervousness or jealousy over who else she might be with, it's because of the blue balls.

farmerart

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14 years ago

Of all that I have read on tuscl in the three months since I have been on the site this is the most fascinating topic I have encountered so far. Thank you for bringing it to the board, skeets. In business for 45 years, I prided myself on being the most dispassionate, calculating, hard-nosed bastard you could imagine. Less than two months into  the tuscl world I am putty in the hands of a twenty-ish stripper I encountered in Toronto. I had one romp with her on my first  trip and returned to my home in Western Canada but could not get her out of my mind. 
 
I have since made two  trips to Toronto for return engagements. This has not been cheap. Business class airfare from where I live, hotels, rentals, and all the rest add up to almost $8k per trip. Surely I have expanded the definition of  "pathetic" to a truly demeaning level. As rickdugan says, we are all vulnerable. I have the bucks to support this unhealthy addiction indefinitely but will I?  This discussion has made me look at myself  in the same hard-hearted manner that I used in business. 
 
Thank you for that, skeets. I am always willing to take advice from those much wiser than I am.

rickdugan

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14 years ago

I think that Rod is on point to a degree, except that I don't believe that the seasoned SC hound really fully believes that he is different, but the girl has a way of making him feel so good about it that he willingly buys into what he logically knows is not real because he enjoys it.  
 
Skeet, I hear what you are saying and agree with the advice overall, but ATF things will happen to the best of us from time to time.  I just cycled out of a 3 month ATF thing, the first one in 6 years and several hundred club nights.  This girls was the rare type that just had my number and I enjoyed my time with her.  6 months ago I would have agreed that I had evolved to the place that it could not happen again, but then this uber sexy, fun, smart and earthy Italian vixen sucked me in.  She reminded me that we are all vulnerable to this, no matter how tough and cynical.

rickdugan

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14 years ago

farmer, if you have the means then just enjoy it.  You can't take it with you when you croak and if you are enjoying your time with her then go yee forth :)

bigdude012

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14 years ago

I have an ATF but its not an emotional attatchment.  More to the point she's the only dancer I met that I didn't immediately shut my ears off when she started talking.  Though I do not play favorites there are other girls in said club who give more mileage, as such they get more of my money 

Alucard

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14 years ago

QUOTE: "Men follow the best blow job. " UNQUOTE 
 
Damned RIGHT! That's why my current ATF gets all my Strip Club $$$. I'm getting a hell of a BBBJ! By the way jackanonymous, not EVERY girlfriend will do BBBJs & swallow. <img alt="" src="/editor/images/smiley/msn/wink_smile.gif" /> <img alt="" src="/editor/images/smiley/msn/shades_smile.gif" />

Player11

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14 years ago

Great Article.  I tend to view my current fav like a coach views a heisman trophy WR.  Right now she is MVP on the roster but in the back of my mind is the reality is one day she will graduate.

LeeH

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14 years ago

I agree with a lot of this -- particularly making sure that the big head is doing the thinking and not assuming that the dancer feels anything for you like you might for her. 
 
That said, different guys get different things out of a SC. And sometimes, different things for the *same* guy at different times. Some nights, I just want to get my rocks off (metaphorically, if not literally). But sometimes that's not the only reason I go to SCs. 
 
In contrast to your next-to-last paragraph, I *did* follow a girl to another club in a pretty shitty part of town. But I like being with her. Now, I have no illusions of a relationship between us (if for no other reason than that she's 17 years younger than I am). But I get to hang out with a pretty girl that I really connect with, who happens to have an ass that could stop traffic and will let me see it for a mere $10. ;-) 
 
While I don't think it's the case for this girl, I really don't give a damn if every nice thing she's ever done/said is total SS. It makes me happy and someone else's opinion of how I take that isn't worth two shits. 
 
A lot of your advice in this article is good. But I think you swing the pendulum too far.

LeeH

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14 years ago

from the comments:  [having] an ATF relationship sort of defeats the purpose of a club. 
 
Bzzzz - wrong - thanks for playing. 
 
Perhaps it defeats your definition of the purpose of a club.  Don't push that on others, though.

macaffluent

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14 years ago

The ATF is an interesting phenomenon, one which a lot of guys do not experience without having been 
involved in the strip club scene for an extended period of time.  My own involvement began four decades ago, so I have been around.  In that time, I only had one ATF. 
 
Our affair lasted 12 years, from the time I met her at age 16 to our parting when she was a jaded 28 year old.  I do have to say that she was the most beautiful female I have ever experienced and that I am glad 
I have those extraordinary memories to carry with me through life. 
 
Yes, the thrust of your article is right on.  I knew it was only lust, but I was a moth drawn to the flame.

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