America is Best When We Have Unity
grrlgonebad
GrrlGoneBad - The Girl Your Mother Warned You About
I've been thinking a lot about how divided and tribal we've become over the past few years.... it’s exhausting ....
It seems like so much energy goes into arguing and focusing on the extremes when honestly I think most of us..... like 95% of people ....probably agree on a lot more than we realize (or want to admit). There’s so much common ground that often gets pushied aside for the all-or nothing... edge arguments.
We’ve lost the art of disagreeing respectfully. We’ve all seen how quickly conversations can turn into personal attacks instead of staying focused on the actual issue..... TUSCL is just an example of the biggere converstions we are having in America these days.
How can we become open to considering different viewpoints and having real ....honest.... conversations without feeling like we need to tear someone down to prove a point.... assholes are going to asshole... but why can't we have a simple conversation anymore?
So, my question is, how do we start finding that unity again? America is best when we are one nation...
How can we focus on what most of us share instead of what divides us? How can we bring it all together again....
Is it still possible to disagree in a way that actually moves us forward instead of just creating more division?
It seems like so much energy goes into arguing and focusing on the extremes when honestly I think most of us..... like 95% of people ....probably agree on a lot more than we realize (or want to admit). There’s so much common ground that often gets pushied aside for the all-or nothing... edge arguments.
We’ve lost the art of disagreeing respectfully. We’ve all seen how quickly conversations can turn into personal attacks instead of staying focused on the actual issue..... TUSCL is just an example of the biggere converstions we are having in America these days.
How can we become open to considering different viewpoints and having real ....honest.... conversations without feeling like we need to tear someone down to prove a point.... assholes are going to asshole... but why can't we have a simple conversation anymore?
So, my question is, how do we start finding that unity again? America is best when we are one nation...
How can we focus on what most of us share instead of what divides us? How can we bring it all together again....
Is it still possible to disagree in a way that actually moves us forward instead of just creating more division?
109 comments
Let's start... we all like strip clubs. Can we agree that mostly naked to naked women entertaining you is a common ground for us all?
as a stripper, I know I like to entertain... and make money... so can we all agree on that one point? strip clubs are good.... we can differ on nude vs topless... extras vs stage... or whatever.. but at least as a foundation, can we all agree on that?
Ad hominem? Stop being stupid and I will stop calling you that... you are smarter than this... start acting like it...
that is just fucking stupid... Try again.
Idiot.
Stop being so fucking stupid.... unless you actually are... which you aren't... WHAT THE FUCK... you are not that stupid.. I know that... so why do you act that way in public?????
WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.... GOD DAMMIT...
STOP BEING STUPID... but then.. I guess you ARE the problem now aren't you....
STOP BEING STUPID
STOP BEING STUPID
STOP BEING STUPID
STOP BEING STUPID
STOP BEING STUPID
STOP BEING STUPID
STOP BEING STUPID
STOP BEING STUPID
STOP BEING STUPID
Ad hominem... absolutely.. you bet...
STOP BEING STUPID and I WLLL STOP CALLING YOU STUPID.
... or you are too stupid to breathe...
one or the other...
Yes.
Stupid has a way of doing that to me...
Maybe patriotic Americans see it a bit differently... since... you know.. my family came from Ireland, Italy and Germany.... but you know... we have been here a while...
Maybe Americans who don't buy into the dark rhetoric of the extreme far right believe we are still a pretty good place, worth salvaging...
Not so Mr Skibum though... it is all a loss.. not worth saving because it is already gone. America doesn't exist... you heard it here...
Now, how about the rest of you actual patriotic Americans who believe that this is a pretty nice place to live?
Access to social media, instant news, and how quickly people pick up on fake news and think it’s real has only intensified the deep divide in this country. Thanks to Facebook, Twitter, TikTok now everyone has a voice. Sounds great right? Unfortunately IMO it’s only made the divide worse.
America has always squabbled, always said "you are not the boss of me" and "you ain't no gooder than me." Even when we've had a common enemy, whether Communism or Radical Islam, we've fought tooth and nail over how to fight them.
Republics are messy, and that's part of what makes us great.
The apartment complex where we lived for two years before we bought our house here was a veritable united nations. Thirty-three people lived in our apartment before us so they could afford the rent in Alexandria on the jobs that they could get. There were hundreds of kids, and we never got anything but total respect from any of them.
When I lived in Jacksonville, there was a man who worked as a custodian cleaning the shipyard's toilets. He had been a captain in the Iranian air force and had escaped the Ayatollah's secret police with his family. He went to night school and got a business degree - he ended up in the yard's accounting department.
The majority of the contractors who work in my area are Hispanic. They work hard, in all kinds of conditions and offer excellent work at a fair price.
So my take is that these immigrants, legal or not, are often the best of us and as often as not are the very underpinning of our society. I welcome them!
Just my 2¢.
Talk about babies... if they can't have it all... they are taking their ball and going home.
...rather than be adults and look for common ground.. find solutions...
nope.. they want to cry about it... snowflakes... melting at the first sign of everything not being tilted to their every advantage...
Second,
Ie non-federal aid for hurricane victims who vote Republican 😂 😭
I think what changed is, broadly, is that the oversaturation of opinion news media and niche news media allows Americans to live in bubbles and echo chambers without ever hearing an opposing opinion or conflicting facts. Compound that with two generations - millennials and Zoomers- who were never told " no" and got participation trophies. They expect things given to them based upon their desire and not upon merit or even an actual need.
That ties into the final aspect of why Americans are unable to compromise and seek reconciliation for unity- everybody wants theirs, and doesn't care how. Now, this is largely the fault of boomers and Gen X- two generations of product managers who sacrificed process and quality control for quantity and profit (i.e. " get it done, I don't care how). This isn't only freebies for legal and illegal immigrants, student loan forgiveness for the lazy and underemployed, or free loans for home purchases and business start ups. This is politics as a career, instead of a service. This is lobbyists commanding the highest salaries in the wealthiest zip code (DC). This is a willingness to falsely demonize a conservative as a white supremacist and a rape victim seeking an abortion as a murderess.
If people were willing to argue facts instead of lies and mischaracterizations during political discourse, it would be much easier to find common ground. Unfortunately, too many people attack those who disagree instead of challenging their ideas. I've been saying that on here for a long time.
The key thing we're lacking right now is a shared set of facts. What's responsible, IMHO, for the asymmetric hyperpolarization of our politics is in the last two decades, is in short, disinformation on social media.
In most of post-WWII America, most people got their facts from reputable TV journalists and news publications. Since the dawn of the millennium our information diets have slowly been polluted by personally tailored social media feeds and algorithms that seek to amplify outrageous content because outrageous content gets more engagement.
Take the immigration sidebar you're having as en example. I doubt most participants here could agree on answers to any of these factually verifiable questions:
- How many undocumented immigrants exist currently in the US?
- What net impact does immigration have on our economy?
- Are immigrants eligible for welfare in the US?
- From which countries are we seeing the biggest surge in immigration?
Reasonable people can agree or disagree healthily over which policies should be drawn based on the facts. But you can't have a reasonable discussion with someone on the topic of immigration if you don't start with a common understanding of the facts.
What do we do about this problem is tough. I think at a minimum, we need to repeal Section 230, which shields big tech companies from liability. I think if someone posts your intimate photos without consent, if they defame you, if a defamatory post sparks stochastic terror on a school or a church, these situations should be grounds for torts against the carrier, especially if they can be shown to be negligent in some way.
I also think we need to take a 'bootstraps' approach to the problem of information diets, and demand more from ourselves and each other. We should be asking ourselves and each other: What reputable news sources do you subscribe to? What are you doing to reduce your social media intake?
I also have a special distaste for people who I doubt would take the same tone in person they do on a strip club board. This why I just want to post reviews, get some intel and be left alone, I don’t want to meet you people in person or chit chat.
If I learned anything on this board it’s the naked stupidity, hypocrisy, degeneracy, cowardice and exploitive nature of a ton of dudes who hit strip clubs, the stereotype is totally fair.
And theres no point in unity of any sort with bigots. Peoples existence and rights are not up for debate.
The whole social justice is bigotry against bigots spiel is nonsensical
RONJAX - hit the nail on the head except for one thing: there are no reputable news sources any longer. Read both sides and use common sense to get at something similaer to a fact.
As far as meeting up? I've met people. No one dimed anyone. You can tell the Desires crew is into strip-clubbing because we've never had a meet and there are a lot of us here.
What reputable news sources exist? The legacy MSM has dropped even the pretense of objectivity. The FBI crime stats (like we're seeing in recent revisions) and economic statistics (in which growth keeps getting revised down and unemployment revised up) can't be taken seriously either. At least the right wing ecosystem doesn't pretend to be something other than what they are.
I read arguments from both sides, left (NYT, Salon, the Nation, WaPo, MSNBC, The Guardian), right (Fox, National Review, NYP, WSJ), and some who post from both sides (RealClearPolitics, Politico, the Hill) and judge the arguments on their merits...who is appealing to emotions, trying to pass off snide remarks as facts, gaslighting, or not telling the whole truth (admittedly, this last one is everyone).
That makes me a conservative 90% of the time.
You just named a bunch of them below. Just because a publication has editorial bias doesn't mean it's not reputable, and standards based.
I reject the idea that we have to reject crime stats or economic statistics. These are exactly the kind of evidence we should all embrace in informing ourselves. To me what you're saying sounds like regular old confirmation bias: you're rejecting these things because they challenge your prior opinions.
> That makes me a conservative 90% of the time.
I'd argue for you or I or anyone else there's much more at work than "I read the news and here's what my opinions are." Your upbringing, social circles, geographical region, even your breeding pattern (r versus K for science nerds) all play a role in whether you view the world conservatively or liberally.
And what's more, there's a time and a place for conservative policy, and the same goes for liberal policy. I think it's foolish to think either perspective has a lockdown on the right proscriptions to every set of problems.
"You just named a bunch of them below. Just because a publication has editorial bias doesn't mean it's not reputable, and standards based."
It means it is not to be taken at its word, and needs to be counterbalanced. If it's trading on a reputation it has since forsaken, it is not reliable.
"To me what you're saying sounds like regular old confirmation bias: you're rejecting these things because they challenge your prior opinions."
Asserted without evidence. When everything is skewed and stealth-edited to benefit one side, that is evidence of systemic bias, not human error.
"I'd argue for you or I or anyone else there's much more at work than "I read the news and here's what my opinions are.""
I agree with this--and I think it goes even further to balances of neurotransmitters and genes that go back into the womb--but it isn't helpful because everyone has them. I can defend anything I believe, or I change my mind.
There may be a time and a place for either kind of policy, but I see what works and what doesn't and form my opinions accordingly.
Answer: we don't. Those who think it's OK for these deadly, diseased illegal parasites to be here are the enemy. Those who screech on behalf of black criminals like Saint George, Saint Breanna and the rest are the enemy. Those who have pushed people who work and don't commit crimes to the back of the line are the enemy. Those who support sick transgender deviants are the enemy.
An enemy cannot cease to be an enemy. Enemies are permanent. Unity cannot be achieved with enemies, ever.
That, simply stated, is allowing others to hold beliefs that we don't necessarily agree without feeling the need to call them morons, assholes or any other terms that devalues them as human beings.
yep civility is much more important, unity is greatly overrated.
Also, I think ideological differences are like weather patterns. Differing temperatures create rain. Too much difference plus unstable atmospheres create tornadoes. Too much homogeny creates hurricanes. However, the right amount of contrast drives growth and creativity. Growth and creativity are the engines of American greatness.
I will play along and comment on your discussion.
Our human specie is not divided by country, race, color, gender, or religion.
Our human specie is divided into wise humans and fools.
And fools divide themselves by country, race, color, gender, or religion.
There is something inherently good in all human beings, deriving from, among other things, the attribute of social consciousness that we all possess.
And, yes, there is also something inherently bad in all humans.
Good humans do not need laws, religion, books etc etc to tell them to act responsibly…
While bad humans will find a way around the laws. religions, books etc to act irresponsibly and do evil things.
Each day is a
NEW BEGINNING,
new strength,
new hope
and new thoughts,
take a deep breath and
start over.
Let’s be careful out there
:D
The problem we have no is we have malign influence operations that are domestic and doing the same thing as the Russian propagandists. And given that propaganda operations are all using AI now, it's increasingly difficult to spot organized inauthentic behavior.
What I wish everyone would understand better is that it's not the influence campaigns on "your side" that radicalize and divide people. It's the opposite. Russian or domestic propagandists will cook up fake radical left accounts in order to polarize conservative voters and vice versa. People end up going off the polarization deep end because they're convinced the "other side" is just as radical.
Russia Russia Russia is the left's all purpose excuse for failure and avoiding introspection. $150,000 worth of Facebook ads didn't tip the balance over Hollary's utterly butt-brained campaign.
Perhaps, instead of Russia, it's your own ideas and attempts to divide the country by race, sex, gender identity, and any other demographic characteristic that are the cause for strife, and not Russia???
@puddy: Russian interference in the 2016 election amounted to substantially more than $150k in ads. They had an army of fake social media accounts across numerous platforms, from 4Chan to Reddit to Facebook, spreading extremist left and right propaganda and an entire agency devoted to these operations. Their attack included sophisticated successful hacking operations of the DNC and subsequent dump of the documents. Read the fucking facts man, it's all in the Muller report: https://www.justice.gov/archives/sco/fil…
Whether you would choose to see it or not Russia had a significant effect on 2016, and they continue to this day to attempt to meddle in our elections by dividing us with propaganda.
> Perhaps, instead of Russia, it's your own ideas and attempts to divide the country by race, sex, gender identity, and any other demographic characteristic that are the cause for strife, and not Russia???
No one in this thread, except you, has attempted to divide the conversation over any kind of identity politics.
And in any case, this is exactly what I'm talking about with how propaganda works. It seems like you're a sucker for it, because you believe in this terrible strawman of a leftist, and stereotype everyone who leans left accordingly. You've done it to me numerous times, attributed to me beliefs I don't hold because you've bought into propaganda and the fake leftist spam on social media.
Are you saying Russia was playing both sides? Because only one has been flogging it and calling EVERYTHING they don't like Russian propaganda. Get real, man.
Lol it's all Russia because if it were the radical left that's wagging the Democratic party dog, that would be unthinkable...right...?
Yes, dude. 100% that is the point I was trying to make. Take a look at some examples here: https://medium.com/arc-digital/russian-p…
There's definitely a ton of divisive right wing content, and as you can see, tons of left wing content.
The broader point I'm trying to make is what radicalizes you isn't the content on "your side". The dystopian divisiveness of the left-wing propaganda is meant to radicalize conservatives. And the extremist right-wing content is designed to inflame liberals. People get this backwards always.
Stated another way: in 2016, you weren't the target audience for all the Clinton Cash posts. The posts that targeted you were the ones complaining about inequality or the posts made to r/occupywallstreet.
I'm not just talking memes, I'm talking columnists from "respectable" media who are saying this shit. Is it Russian propaganda that Harris was the farthest-left Senator during her time in office? Is BLM Russian propaganda? Or that American radicals call punctuality and hard work "acting white" and looting "reparations"? Or that she and Walz support removing most restrictions on sex change surgeries? That shit is out there and on the record. Can't blame Russia for all that...though I'd bet anyone here $10,000 that within 10 years we'll see a foreign actor (probably China) behind BLM.
In the end, we have to look at ourselves. Social media algorithms are going to have a thousand times the influence Russia does. Like I've said that's why I read stuff from all sides and make judgments on the arguments. I'm more vocal than I used to be but hardly "radicalized"...I've been pro-choice for only the last 10 years or so, support tax reforms on both sides, and think it's laughable to say it's easier to be black than white in America.
Frankly, I'd be shocked if we, Russia, China, Israel, and anyone with means isn't sticking their noses in everyone else's elections.
They act like getting only 80% of what they want is a travesty. They're not a majority, even of Democrats, but their donors and activists provide the party's money and energy. The radical left papers (some of which I mentioned above) have lavished praise on Biden for being progressive, even while he ran as a "centrist."
Harris was the most left Senator (more than avowed socialist Sanders) during her time in the Senate, whose 2020 policy platform which she didn't even backtrack on until a couple months ago involved decriminalizing illegal immigration, outlawing private health insurance, defunding the police (so much for "law and order"!), banning fracking, EV mandates, reparations...an overall left wet dream...and who chose arguably the farthest-left governor as VP.
That is not the nominee of a moderate or even center-left party.
So I actually had three meaningful points in that thread, but I intentionally wrote it in such a way that nobody would likely even bother to reply if they weren't interested in a meaningful discussion. And sure enough, if you click on that thread, you'll probably see tumbleweeds drift across your screen...lol
Anyway, I learned years ago that regardless of what "information" might ever be presented to me, if I wanted my internal conclusions to be accurate, I would be solely responsible for learning how to filter and sort that information. It just wasn't an option for me to be a part of a connected world and not know how to do that. I have zero influence on the rest of the world, though, and very few people even care about my existence, let alone any conclusions I might have. lol My processes and internal checks, or whatever you want to call them, can only help me prepare for whatever the world is going to become anyway... I can only wish people the best, and I hope that if they get what they want, or at least what they think they want, that they're happy with the end results. That's about all I can do. Well, that and maybe a few jokes here and there to lighten the mood... :)
If fans who love and support the same college football team spew hateful comments and disrespect at each other, then there’s no hope we will ever respect each others political views
Even before Citizens United, it was generally not known what hidden agendas influencers or their sponsors might have. When an influencer or news source presents you with what they claim to be facts, take them with a grain of salt. https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/medi… https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/medi…
Marx thought that the failings of Capitalism would lead to overwhelming support for Socialism. When that didn't happen, Lenin advocated for a revolutionary vanguard, that would impose Socialism. The idea was, people would come to support it once they had the benefits of it (nooot). When the left goes overboard about Russian propaganda making Trump illegitimate, they get on the slippery slope leading to revolutionary vanguard approach. They want to control what people hear, rather than gain majority support by convincing people with their own influencing.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-rt-em…
Gamma continues to own himself. Applying the exact same logic: all men who receive extras from a stripper are criminals. That is an indisputable fact. They continue to be criminals and commit a serious criminal offense every day that they get extras.
What say you, Gammanu?
Maybe an illegal worker works for less than the prevailing wage, so they get hired over a legal worker. But maybe businesses couldn't find enough legal workers without charging more than customers are willing to pay. So they close, leaving their legal employees and customers high and dry. Can somebody from another country be expected to know if they are doing good or harm by taking a job.
Likewise, a guy could be spending money in a strip club that he ought to be spending on his kids. Can a stripper be expected to know that's happening?
I think this is the logical outcome of a democratic 2-party system. If pols don't split us up, they can't get our votes, bc eod we pretty much all do agree on a lot of the same stuff.
I'll add: whoever is winding you up at the top of this thread is probably a retard and definitely someone I've already blocked bc I can't see their posts.
I suggest you do the same.
The illegal border crossers come here and laugh at our laws, disrespect our culture, and face no consequences. To the contrary, they are rewarded for coming here.
If it were a true analogy, we'd all be given free transportation to the club, a few drinks on the house, a voucher for a BBBJ, and they'd pass out Visa gift cards on the bus ride home.
The illegal extras customers come to the clubs and laugh at our laws, disrespect our police, and face no consequences. To the contrary, they are rewarded with a blowjob for coming here.
It is LITERALLY the same thing... You can't break the equivilency because you LIKE one of the crimes vs the other you claim is ruining the country. crime is crime bro... and you are guilty as charged... so let's step back from the whole "I'm not a criminal... " for you most certainly are...
One possibility is that the obsession with the illegality of border crossers is little more than a weak veil for xenophobia. It’s easier to say “but but but they’re BREAKING THE LAW”, than to admit “I don’t like Mexicans”.
Imagine being faced with starvation or living under threat, and deciding to commit the enormous crime of breaking an immigration law. PERISH the thought.
It was such thinly veiled racism... because HOW COULD AN AMERICAN PRESIDENT BE BLACK? He had to be illegitimate... and that one lie led us to where we are now.
Because yeah, in 1950whatever betting on a mixed race kid from Hawaii to be the future president of the united states was... an easy one to make!
If the deep state conspiracy developers were that good, I applaud them... that was a 10,000,000,000,000 to 1 bet and they hit it EXACTLY right!
It is all just thinly veiled bullshit dipped in something deemed "patriotic" or whatever... to make it seem like something it isn't....
When are you leaving this hellhole you call America for the island where all the white men can have their sad pity party for themselves... we won't miss you... sadly, the taco trucks will be staying here... yum.
go on... scoot... we don't need you any more.. America will be just fine without you old men and their addled brains forgetting what they wrote AS THE FIRST POST IN THIS THREAD...
...stupid... old... weak... man...
No, the same thing would be if we were caught with our dicks inside strippers and were rewarded with hotel rooms within walking distance of the club, 3 meals a day, condoms, and lube if we wanted to do anal.
Both are illegal, but one is actively rewarded and subsidized by the government.
Obama was always a used car salesman. Never got why people fell under his spell. All he does is misrepresent his opponents and throw snide remarks at the straw man.
In a way, it’s progress: when I was a kid this contingent were much more vocal about their dislike for Latinos and African Americans, now they’re too ashamed to say it outright and have to hide it behind a made up argument that smells like bs. Of course back then they weren’t using the terms “Latino” or “African American”!
Nina assumes that everyone goes to strip clubs to pay for sex. This is false. Many of us here enjoy mileage but do not pay for extras. I could assume that every stripper plays for pay, meaning all the dancers on here (including her) are basic ho's.
Someone stated that illegal immigrants break fewer laws than legal citizens. This is factually false. 100% of illegal immigrants have broken the law.
No one in America I have met and no one on this board has stated that they are against lawful immigrants coming to this country to legally pursue the American dream. Conservatives by definition are against illegal immigrants, welfare immigrants, chain migration, and birthright citizenship which is making America poorer, dirtier, and more divided. Yes, it is true, prove me wrong.
The democrat party love and coddling for illegal immigrants is going to cost them the urban vote. Many legal and natural born citizens in the cities and welfare-supported suburban neighborhoods have realized that the democrat politicians have abandoned them to give freebies to illegal immigrants. They have literally been taking their vote for granted, and are losing their support as these groups begin to see liberal politics for what they are. It's not about men voting for a woman, Barry, it's about men voting against a party that has abandoned them and marginalized them in favor of illegal aliens, and men voting for a candidate which has delivered positive results for them in the past and voting for a government which will deport the illegal immigrants and restore the federal benefits to American citizens in these communities.
It isn't that hard.. she said.. making the logical arguments, that is.. and perhaps other things as well...
“So why are some so concerned about the legality of another man’s immigration status?
One possibility is that the obsession with the illegality of border crossers is little more than a weak veil for xenophobia. It’s easier to say “but but but they’re BREAKING THE LAW”, than to admit “I don’t like Mexicans”.
Imagine being faced with starvation or living under threat, and deciding to commit the enormous crime of breaking an immigration law. PERISH the thought.”
In some cases its racism, some cases its blue collar workers who want protectionist economic policies. Mexicans are willing to work for cheaper, and that can hurt the business of some citizen who wants to charge more. It’s similar to how some local american born dancers want $1000 for the same extras a Cuban is willing to do for $200 or $300.
You are right, if someone is under threat or starvation, it shouldnt be a crime for them to come here. So the question is what do they do when they come here? Are you proposing they should be given free housing or food? That is where you would be wrong, it isnt the responsibility of americans to provide anyone shelter or food. Do you go to other countries and just show up and expect them to give you free stuff? If you want to move to another country is it acceptable to just show up and demand they give you stuff? Thats laughable
Newsflash, that charge is so overused as to be meaningless. Don't want a gang taking over your apartment? RACIST! Don't want your tax dollars putting them up in nice hotels? RACIST! Don't want them committing crimes then back on the street to commit more hours later? RACIST! Don't like Obama hectoring black men about who to vote for? RACIST!
Get new material, peeps. The racism charge is do 2020.
I've seen "bigot" defined as "someone winning an argument as a liberal." TUSCL proves that.