How should we deal with Immigration objectively?

This is not a question that needs to be asked. We have laws. Immigrants who enter illegally should be deported immediately. Immigrants who overstay their visa should only receive a trial if there are mitigating circumstances, but should not be released without ankle monitors.

I see plenty of Americans and White people "doing jobs Americans won't do." So that's a bullshit excuse. Some of my best lawn care companies have been white Americans.

I dislike a physical border, but all other options have been exhausted. Sniper towers? Maybe just watch towers. The savings made by not providing benefits to ilegals would more than offset any costs to build and staff such a barrier.

1) If you come legally but overstay your visa by even one day, you get 6 months in prison before being deported (because you didn't come the right way).
2) Those who come illegally (run across the border like cockroaches) are welcomed with open arms, put on welfare, and given a path to citizenship so they can start voting ASAP.
3) Make the wall 3 feet high with stairs going up and down.
4) Position the snipers to shoot anyone who tries to leave, so no one changes their mind.

- Kamala Harris
49th Vice President of the US

You know I must’ve fell asleep in economics class on the wrong day. According to this administration, apparently importing the third world wholesale, bringing in the world’s poverty en masse will somehow make us richer as country. Yeah sure makes perfect sense. But “we need the workers, we need the workers” No we don’t need the workers. How about this, stop printing money to pay for immigrant bullshit, there fore not debasing our currency and inflating out the middle class.

Also we basically IVing unbelievably high violent crime rates and rape rates from these fucked up places into our country. Like dude we don’t fucking need that shit. Look what’s happened Sweden. Do we understand the billions of dollars it’s going to take to deal with all that chaos. How about we just say NO.

Good recent episode of triggermonetry. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bFnHPp19hp…

The days of women being safe in a first world country are coming to end. What do you think these dudes from these places are asking these chicks out on a date, fuck no they just go fucking rape them because they can. Par for the course where they are coming from. It’s not fit here.

Take away the demand for them and everything else will follow. Mandatory e-Verify with a fine of $5,000 per person per day for anyone caught employing illegals, half the fine going to whomever ratted them out.

No path to citizenship for anyone who came illegally, until they leave 2 years and then return legally.

If you're illegal and commit a felony here you're shipped to China to get your organs harvested or make shoes in a factory for 100 hours a week.

Not a nickel for any sanctuary city or state.

Strict punishments on any country who releases prisoners to flood America, or doesn't enforce their border (like reimplementing Remain in Mexico).

Guest worker program for labor we need.

Merit based immigration.

Ggofv began this post with => this is a political post.

Then why is it here?

Founder has made one and only one polite request of us, explained in the description of the Front Room:

“This forum is for people to post whatever they want, as long as it's not political or regarding Tijuana. We have dedicated forums for those topics” (right there on the page that comes up when you click “Forums”)

Frankly, I think spending too much time discussing politics drives even semi-normal people insane. The reality is that most of us live in places where our votes don’t matter. Most states are biased enough one way or the other that you know ahead of time whether your “side” is going to win. Most congressional districts are safe. If you devote too much of your brain to something you have very limited potential to impact you go frickin’ nuts!

I’m not saying you shouldn’t vote. In fact, I think it psychologically unhealthy to be so unconcerned with the future of your country that you don’t take a little time out of your life to register your opinion.

I’m also not saying you shouldn’t post your political opinions on TUSCL, just that you should accede to Founder’s polite request and do so in the “Political Discourse” room, not the front room. And I guess I’m also suggesting that maybe you should take a step back, be a little realistic, and realize that you probably don’t know what you’re talking about.

Err… I mean “post this shit in the politics room or Imma go all frickin’ wildebeest on your ass!” ROAR!!!

^^ Bippity, boppity, bacon Lion!!

^ I have to agree with almost everything Mr Lion has said, these political posters must be living very boring lives, I mean really with all of this freedom to do whatever you'd like, this is what you find interesting. SMFH

Mr. Lion is a useless cunt.

I have the all the ricks but Dugan on ignore. The hairless ape schtick got old fast.

If 25iq thinks political posts are boring, everyone would be happier if he would take his ignorance, uninformed opinions, fake news, and narcissistic comments anywhere else.

^ deal with immigration by sending you back to the swamp you crawled out of

Deal with immigration by capturing 25 illegals, lining them up against a wall, shoot them and televise it as a warning with subtitles in 50 languages. America born of immigration, murdered by immigration.

The only people I see working home construction and landscaping on the Jersey Shore are Mexicans. A few white guys and virtually no black guys. That tells me we need them at some level.

^^^ you mean Chicago, lol. Sure. Milder summers and my buddy Sinclair.

^ Weird little pitiful bitch.

"this is a political post."

You are correct. Which is why it should be in the "Political Discourse" forum and not in the "Front Room".

^^ When you are too stupid to come up with a comeback, just resort to name calling. That's small dick energy

I would make it pretty quick and easy for anyone who wants to come here to work and can find a job or can legally support themselves.to get paper work as long as there isn’t something about them that makes them a danger. Then I’d crack down on the rest.

Attractive women under 30 only

Since gamma and skifredo claim to have me on ignore, perhaps some kind soul can copy and paste this for their edification.

All I said was that founder makes one request of TUSCL posters: post political stuff in the politics room, post Tijuana stuff in the Tijuana room, and other stuff in the front room. There is no “don’t be a lion, vulture, barnacle, or dugan” rule for the front room.

This rick is cool that you don’t want the any lion-y rickvice, but maybe you should consider one thing: too much politics makes people insane. Consider skifredo… I mean really, it is one thing to say that illegal immigrants should be deported post haste, but making it the simple violations of immigration laws a capital offense? That’s frickin’ psycho!

Gamma, you seem like a nice enough guy when you’re talking about hobbies and things like diving or snorkeling (can’t remember which or if it was both). If you feel passionately about politics and need to share your thoughts with other demented perverts (no disrespect intended) there is even a place to do that.

Just consider what it says to post the political shit in violation of the one polite request that Founder makes. I’ll tell you what it says: it says you’ve gone from feeling passionately to being weirdly obsessed. This lion is just saying this: dial it back to feeling passionately for your own mental health! Remember: weirdly obsessed is only one step away from being a complete psycho like skifredo!

ROAR!!!

@ Rick the lion, I apologize. The reason I didn't post in political discourse is because I didn't know how to start a thread there.

This rick will add one more funny thing…I checked the top 40 most muted list and this rick is not on it. Now, the minimum value on that list is 2, so perhaps this rick has 2 ignores but he is not presented on the table because there are many posters with 2 ignores that are simply not on that list because it is cut off at 40.

I will also point out that both Skifredo and Gamma are on the list. Perhaps that says something about the appetite for lion-y rickvice vs the appetite for Skifredo posting psycho shit. Just sayin’

Now where is my drivin’ whiskey? ROAR!!

@ggofv - you’re bein’ a good hairless ape. Simply go to the political discourse forum and then click “start a discussion”. Glad I could help!

Yet another example of quality rickvice. You damn dirty apes should be takin’ notes given how helpful we ricks are. ROAR!!!

===> "But “we need the workers, we need the workers” No we don’t need the workers."

Actually yes we do, rather badly actually. If you think the cost of food is bad now, just imagine how worse it would be if slaughterhouses, farms, restaurants (dishwashers), fish processing plants and a bunch of other places had to jack up wages enough to entice soft American kids to do the dirty and dangerous jobs that they really don't want to do.

We also need them to support our aging population and keep our economy healthy. Our native born population is aging. The average woman is now having 1.6 kids, which is an all time low and well below the 2.1 replacement rate. We desperately need the added economic production from tax paying workers.

Unless we want to be Japan in 20 years, with a graying population and a long-term stagnant economy. The reason we have remained so vibrant for so long, despite our birth rate issues, is precisely because we have young people clamoring to get in here and work.

As yet one more of too many examples to count, around here pretty much every guy you see working on a landscaping or lawn care crew is Hispanic. It's hot as fuck here 8 months out of the year - very few American dudes want those jobs. We simply raise our kids too soft now.

So i say legalize as many as possible already so that we can be sure to get them all kicking into our nearly bankrupt Social Security fund!

@ muddy

I don't hate immigrants. I just think we need a better solution than the us vs them mentality. Open borders is just a fundamentally broken philosophy, you may as well annex the country at that point and collect tax revenue.

Let's just enforce the laws on the books and send these people back home. Its the Mexican government that I am more upset with.

===> "Let's just enforce the laws on the books and send these people back home."

That's both impractical and, frankly, stupid.

You're talking easily an estimated 12 million people. Even if we had the manpower to track down even a meaningful fraction of these people and deport them - and we don't - the cost would be extraordinary.

And that cost isn't limited to paying a veritable army of investigators and immigration agents. Those people are largely productive workers who form the backbone of a number of industries and professions. The economic impacts of a mass deportation program would be incalculable.

If the US would stop meddling in Latin America. There would be a lot less illegal immigration. Stop propping up right wing regimes, stop blockades, stop destabilizing nations. On the domestic front. Severe punishments for businesses that use illegal labor and landlords who rent to them. Take away their business licences and put them in prison.

@rickdugan is right. Deporting 12 million is only slightly less practical than going door to door confiscating guns.

We control the incentives to come, we control the border itself.

Democrats don't want to do it, they want to look like they're doing it. Otherwise they wouldn't have opened it then taken 3.5 years to act on it. Now they want to amnesty those they let in. Let's just say that if they thought those would vote Republican, that border would be closed tighter than an accountants asshole.

@Mr. Persianality - haven't you learned the lesson about trying to democratize countries with no democratic tradition?

We aren't going un-shithole Venezuela, Honduras, and El Salvador. Harris talked about that but it has failed. They can fix themselves.

Puddy tat re read what I wrote. And American imperialism isn't a partisan problem. Its an American problem

Anyways. Until we punish the business owners who enable and entice illegal immigration. It won't go away. They need to be locked up and lose their businesses to be made examples of. Rent or hire illegals. Lose your business license and go to prison for a few years.

^ I agree that we do it by addressing the demand.

But look at who is talking about reforming other countries and who isn't. The Democrats have become the interventionist party.

Latin America needs to fix their own shit.

Both Democrats and Republicans support imperialism. Neither party will stop funding Bidens proxy war in Ukraine or the genocide in Palestine. Both support the right wing extremist gov in Argentina. It's not a partisan problem. The parties are just two sides of the same coin and give us the illusion of choice

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/russia-now-off…
Russia has declared itself a “safe haven” to any “foreigners” who want to “escape” their “neoliberal” home countries.

Anyone caught sneaking in through the southern border gets immediate plane fare to Moscow. These new Russian conscripts... er, I mean citizens, can enjoy their new safe haven. Bet it wouldn't take long for the word to spread and the inflow of illegals to subside.

@ Mr P - bad false equivalence. One side is much more focused on limiting foreign adventures.

Argentina is extremely libertarian. Hardly "right wing."

Argentina is far right extremist. You try to minimize that fact but call sex change surgery mutilation and reproductive rights murder. While opposing the free movement of propels. Not very libertarian of you.

Republicans feign opposition to Bidens war because Biden started it. They jizz themselves over the genocide bin Palestine though

Peoples not propels

You're using a strip club forum as a soap box for right wing extremist views. Think about that for a moment

@Icee, we missed you. Not.

You post the most inane bigoted things on a strip club forum and the best you can do is call me someone else. You're sick in the head

Puddy Tat, libertarianism is right wing its just further on the right than most right wingers. The less government power the further you are on the right. Libertarianism simply lacks the religious social conservatism often found on the right… but thats not relevant in the left right equation.

@RMD - no, that hasn't ever been the definition in the US. Social conservatism has been part of it for decades. Libertarians are highly pro-choice (left), but pro-gun and anti-tax (right), and generally anti-intervention (both sides at times).

@Icee - you're a troll, same insults, same emojis. We don't want you or your latest alias here.

Rick you mentioned the yardwork and landscaping type of labor and how important it is that we have latinos willing to do it. You didnt mention the other type of labor people on a strip club site are much more interested in.



What i dont get is why dont they loosen the restrictions for women from some of these foreign countries. Are they not allowed to discriminate by gender when it comes to immigration policy? Do they really think the women are as likely as men to be violent or disruptive? In addition to all the cheap, reliable latina labor already available many would also like some cheap middle eastern labor

“ The truth is "they do jobs Americans won't do at the low wages and lack of benefits we offer". This is looked at as a good thing? Its exploitative and needs to be called out. Businesses should be held legally liable for using foreign workers that are undocumented. ”

Its not exploitative because even though those workers are working for what the typical American considers low wages and no benefits, they’re making far more than the wages in their original countries. It wouldn’t be fair to interfere with the free market process and forcibly raise their wages.

Its exploitive because its illegally contracted labor at illegally low wages. In the Central African Republic some people make 36 cents an hour, and can subsist off of it. That same person earning $5 an hour in the US is exploited more than at home because that wage is below subsistence level.

The immigrant's crime is illegal border crossing. Their employers crime isn't only illegal labor practices but that they also conspired to engage in said practices. The employer is the real criminal.

^They know the living standard and salary and all that before coming here. If they dont, they should know of it before deciding to come. Why would someone pack up and go to a foreign country under the assumption that theyll just be given or paid whatever they want? The fact they choose to come here and get paid the low salary makes it not exploitative. Its the same as an American company using foreign labor.

If i want to move to switzerland can i just show up there and demand to be paid what i feel i deserve? I would actually be very afraid to do something so stupid, I wouldn’t even bother moving there unless i knew what kind of job was available or had something lined up before going.

That's not how it works. Legally you can't consent to exploitation. Its coercive. Just like you can't give legal consent to being trafficked, held captive, raped, etc.

People come to the US with the expectation of a better life. Not with the expectation of abusive working conditions

^They come here to leech off the taxpayer, which is how and why they become progressives.

If you really want to solve it, you go after the employers. You know, the rich people making money off illegal immigrant labor. Kill the demand kill the supply.

Exactly. There are laws in place but they just get a slap on the wrist. They should be hit with conspiracy to contract illicit labor. Lose their licenses and get prison time.

If we raise minimum wage, and enforce it better, that will eliminate the worst large-scale harm from immigration.

Nobody should be paroled if they cross illegally. But we need more ICE employees and immigration judges for people waiting to cross legally, and waiting for a hearing or paperwork processing. There could be a tax on employing a non-citizen, to help pay for immigrate processing costs. More incentive to not give recent immigrants job preference over citizens.

End welfare. 19 year moratorium on immigration. Then you must be financially sponsored by a citizen to become an immigrant.

^
Since we’re just discussing politics in the front room anyway, this rick has a much more sensible immigration proposal than Skifredo’s nonsense. I call it “fair trade immigration”. The policy is simple:

We strip Skifredo of citizenship and identify a country that willing to take him. We pay that country $1 million. Also, anybody in that country can immigrate to the US in the following year. But the country has to keep the Skifredo off the internet.

I think that would solve all of TUSCL’s problems. ROAR!!!

Haven’t read the article but saw a headline this morning that our birth rate declined again, maybe to lowest ever? Anyway, our financial system needs workers. We have to pay interest on our national debt. We have to fund SS and Medicare. That takes taxes. Unless we all want to pay a higher tax rate, we need to add our tax base by adding more taxpayers. Unemployment is very low. We can afford to add workers and we’ve got lots of people who want to come here to work. We want the good people, bringing their families and wanting to provide for them, giving them a stake in the success of our culture. Immigration is a political football obviously but the solution is right there for us.

Lock the back door and open the front door. Cut down on the illegal border crossings, manage the asylum seekers and take migrant workers. Put them all to work as soon as possible. Don’t make them wait 6 months or a year. It just makes crime a more attractive option, as well as reliance on aid for food, shelter and healthcare. Put them to work so that they are on the grid and locatable. Don’t pay taxes, commit a felony or fail to show up for a hearing? Deport.

Okay… okay… this rick is probably being too negative about Skifredo. But y’all have to admit he’s kind of psycho.

Seriously though, I’ve made good natured fun of the dugan and I think he mostly gets it. There are a lot of folks posting on here, including dugan, that have a fairly sensible take. I’m not going to put down anybody for wanting less immigration or more immigration or whatever. I’m also not going to put down anybody who puts forward a non-psycho plan to control border crossings.

I will say that the discussion is pointless. I doubt that anybody actually knows current immigration law so all the discussion is divorced from reality. And you should take it seriously when a Jack-drinkin’, suit-wearin’, Tesla-drivin’ lion tells you that you’re divorced from reality. That said, if your only goal is goofy fun then go forth. But, if this is just goofy fun, why are a some folks so frickin’ angry?

I’d also like to remind you of past TUSCL glories. Remember the dugan story about texting a stripper boyfriend and telling said boyfriend that the stripper said the boyfriend’s dick is defective. Okay, I can’t remember if that was the exact story, but whatever the real story was doesn’t matter. It was funny as shit.

And there was the famous “fuck you Jackie” incident. What the fuck was that? Was it really Juice’s girlfriend telling him off? Was it Juice playing his own girlfriend for laughs? Did Juice have two personalities, one for the Juiceman and one for Juice’s ex? I’ll tell you what that shit was: frickin’ hilarious!

We need more of that crazy shit and less politics in the front room. Truth be told, most of y’all would have better mental health if you thought less about politics. Just vote for who you think will do best and be happy if your side wins and say “oh well, I hope they don’t do anything disastrous” if the other side wins.

My bet if that some of you will be as unhappy if your side wins as if it loses. Hell, I bet Fredo would be happier with a Kamala presidency. It’ll make it easier for him to get an erection when he hate fucks his Kamala sex doll. ROAR!!!

^ There is no political will to do anything common sense, such as the above. All the conversation will devolve into welfare, crime etc. The simple fact is that immigration only works if all immigrants are barred from the dole, the way it was when there were no handouts.

The immigration problem has become a very profitable business, both sides use the issue to raise money, every time there’s been a serious attempt to repair the broken system, the profiteers on both sides use the issue as a bludgeon to attack the other side.

We do not need to import workers to fund entitlements. We need to cut entitlements for millions of illegal aliens. We need to shrink the federal government and stop paying billions of dollars to protect the borders of other countries. We need to privatize the pensions of bureaucrats. If you enter this country illegally you are a criminal and are entitled to nothing but a speedy deportation.

what happened in sweden?

@gamma - entitlements, as the term is commonly used, aren't a big expense, though I believe any amount is too much.

Believe it or not I'm with Icee here. Deal with the demand for it and they'll stop coming. Businesses can't hide in the cracks.

Problem is the farthest left Senator during her tenure, and her running mate the farthest left governor have the DNC showing their freak flag. And part of that is showing just how pro-illegal you are. Giving healthcare and even no interest rate loans to illegals, while legal entrants have to deal with onerous visa issues. Goes to show how much they love transgression and law breaking.

I line Hank's term of close the back door and open the front door. Guest worker program and merit based immigration.

We need female immigration from the Latin countries for the good and affordable services.

Businesses can also use the cheap labor of people willing to work for less than minimum wages.

I mentioned two types of entitlements. The first was Social Security, Medicare, and medicaid. The second was all the freebies given to illegal aliens. If all o the illegal aliens coming to the US were finding gainful employment, they would be less of a tax and crime burden. They are not finding employment and they are a massive tax and crime burden. They are not coming for jobs, they are coming for handouts. We need to return to detainment centers located at the borders. Separate men, women, and children for the safety of the latter. Anyone with a history with terror groups or previous violent crimes in the US gets a free trip to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. All others remain in Mexico.

The expense they pose to American taxpayers is massive:
$12 billion (12,000,000,000) in NYC alone
$400M in Chicago
$30.93B to California
$9.94B in TX
$13.36B to the federal government
...and all of this info is at least six months old!

https://www.nbcchicago.com/investigation…
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/09…
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/map-sh…
https://www.fairus.org/issue/publication…

Immigrants both legal and illegal collect public benefits at a rate of 2-1 over the native born and anywhere illegals go to school, native born children are ripped off over how much money is spent teaching those with no education who cannot speak English.

Americans have lower birthrates maybe because they can't afford it. We tax the SHIT out of them to pay for all this fucking bullshit (aka every stupid liberal fantasy idea of all time) that doesn't work. The idea isn't to just replace them with folks from the third world, not a good idea. As we've seen in europe, you will soon not be living in America anymore. It really is globalist propaganda that even many conservatives slurp right up and that's why we are fucked. Just use common sense, think about it.

Invest in Americans. Invest in American families. Worry about what you have here. That's it.

As per your links. Like the Chicago one. The problem is cities paying astronomical amounts to subcontract private businesses to aid in providing the basics like shelter for migrants. The legal status of said migrants' isn't mentioned.

The problem is the private sector profiteering off of the most vulnerable.

What we need is.
1- severe punishments for business owners and landlords enabling and conspiring to enable illegal immigration ie contracting illicit labor, trafficking, profiteering etc.

2- stop meddling in other countries' internal politics.

3- Get rid of birthright citizenship.

4- stop giving criminals refugee status just because they're from countries the US gov dislikes. Ie the that Cuba or Venezuela have to offer.

5- easier and better paths to citizenship.

* were not getting the best that they have to offer

4- stop giving criminals refugee status just because they're from countries the US gov dislikes. Ie were not getting the best that Cuba or Venezuela have to offer.

"Americans have lower birthrates maybe because they can't afford it."

@Muddy - Actually, were that the case, the European and Asian social democracies would be better off. But as it were, our birthrates are higher than Western Europe's. Italy is in danger of a demographic collapse. Japan and South Korea might already be there. Even China has its problems (mostly related to the One Child Policy, but still). It isn't even just the most developed parts of the world. Eastern European and Latin American birthrates are dropping.

Best explanation I've read is that more children are an economic burden, not an economic blessing like in the days when we needed them to work the farms. Also the widespread availability and less stigma around birth control (Latin America is very Catholic), and the loss in religion "be fruitful and multiply" plays a large role.

Expanding the child tax credit might ameliorate the economic aspects, but not the social/religious ones.

The US birth rate is declining but isn't bad. What you're really saying is not enough of those births are to white Americans...

Which is racist

@Icee - it's below replacement. That is bad, especially when our old-age entitlements rely on working individuals to fund them. Too few young people = less funding.

3.6 million births in 2023 vs 3.7 million in 2022. That's nothing to be alarmed about.

If there's a long term decline then we'll see immigrants as saviors

@Icee - We can see increases here and a leveling off over time (other than the COVID blip). Both parties seem to think Americans, of any race, need to start raw dogging more.

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metri…

But you're using a small decline to incite alarmism . Thwn piggy backing more alt right drivel off that

@Icee - no, I'm using data. Both parties seem to think it's a problem. Why should we trust you?

Who is icee that he lives in your head??

You're pushing alarmism

Still the same aversion to data as ever, Icee.

You're basically making an argument for more immigration.

And you're delusional calling me icee. I'm going to have to ask around about him. See what the non trolls say

Immigration was important when America was being built on slavery, child labor and no rights for women. A with those, there is no use for immigration any longer. End all government support for immigrants. Send them back. Start with the white folks, to make jackanapes happy.

Thank all of you for your opinions on the topic. I gathered some very good opinions.

@skibum, I don't think immigration is bad, but we never fully solved the inherent risks. As others have stated, this problem is too financially beneficial to both parties. Any solution would require outright following the law to the letter or providing multiple excuses. Nobody wants to give up the cash cow of cheap labor or cheap representation.

@Icee - legal OK, illegal bad. Even a pimp can figure that one out.

This dude is so based it’s not even funny. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IrA9rcF49L…

Allowing immigrants from Muslim nations is the end of decent America. Parts of Michigan might as well be fucking Beirut already. Look at the vile garbage speaking at the terrorist convention in Chicago.

Beirut is like half Christian.