The Freakanomics of Stripping (Podcast)

This is interesting content, thanks for posting. I'm halfway through it now.

This comment she makes is interesting but she doesn't elaborate, I'm wondering what she means:

> "the demographic that is becoming middle aged wants something different"

One claim in here is that during the pandemic, SC customers flocked to only fans. That wasn't the case for me. I don't think I've ever even been on the site.

The big flaw is that the podcast focuses on the shame-the-frugal-lecher type clubs, more generally referred to as "upscale" clubs. I dislike those clubs, and middle age has come and gone for me.

I'm interested to learn more about the immigration situation. Leila mentions you need an SSN to work at a club but your immigration status does not need to be "solid."

My supposition would be that MOST clubs want to operate as above board as they can, since they're all being targeted by municipalities trying to shut them down. The interesting grey area, and I have no idea how this works legally speaking: if you're only hiring people as Independent Contractors (ICs), whose job is it to check the immigration documentation?

I would love to learn more about this.

This was a fun listen, but I'll echo that it focuses on upscale clubs. It doesn't tell us a ton we don't already know. I know there are articles and books on the economics of prostitution, in or out of the club.

^ The way it used to work is businesses under a certain size we’re not subject to E-Verify requirements not sure if that’s still the case but when I sold my business in 2021 during the pandemic there was no requirement to file.

My understanding was all businesses were required to check I-9s. Even if you're subject to E-verify requirements, you still have to collect an I-9 for every employee and verify they have documentation that establishes their identity and documentation that establishes their right to work.

But dancers aren't employees, they're ICs. So who would even be checking their documentation?

^ not sure when the I-9 rule was changed but to my knowledge we never had to deal with that, and I was pretty careful to be in compliance as the immigration authorities were always conducting raids on projects we were working, and my company was never cited in over 35 years of operation.

^ BTW we had many independent contractors and subcontractors working on the job sites we were working, most of our projects were staffed by hundreds of individuals on any given day.

With the I-9 process for employees, I think it's actually illegal for the employer to ask to see the employees Social Security card. Employers are supposed to look up the number in some data base, but it's only a $50 fine if they are caught not doing it. I doubt the procedure is stricter for independent contractors. Most illegal immigrants file I-9 forms, either with fake documents or ones that the employer pretends were presented. It would be easy to make it much harder for employers for hire illegal immigrants. So far no President has really tried to stop illegal immigration, only used it for grandstanding.

https://www.marketplace.org/2019/01/28/u…

Thanks for the suggestion, interesting listen. But I had to laugh at the suggestion that cocaine was the most illegal thing happening in the back rooms of clubs.

I believe that employees just have to present a social security card/visa & an ID/passport. The employeer will scan it for their records, but no one actually checks anything unless they believe it's a fraudulent document. And if they've decided to hire you, why would they care if the document is fraudulent or not?

IMHO it's a stupid system to have employers be immigration cops. Employers should be able to hire whomever they want.

But with that aside, I'm curious because with all the zealotry around mass deportations right now, I'm wondering how that's going to affect the clubs and Cubanas we all love.

It's fairly easy for Cubans to maintain a visa (as political refugees). The problem for them is that ICE has big delays issuing and renewing work permits.

>Thanks for the suggestion, interesting listen. But I had to
>laugh at the suggestion that cocaine was the most illegal
>thing happening in the back rooms of clubs.

ha, that made me laugh too. though i suppose she couldn't mention how often ropes of cum were being shot at her face back there. it's a family show.

Re: I-9s. The key is that I-9s only need to be completed for employees. Although not certain I'm fairly sure that most if not all strippers are independent contractors for whom I-9s are not required. I personally know many strppers in the philadelp0hia area who come to the US on a visitor visa for less than 6 mo, go home and then return. Or, they remain out of status. The likelihood of getting caught is pretty slim. I know one who came as a visitor for 3-4 mos, then went home to Brazil for a month or 2 over several years. She eventually changed her status to student while continuing to strip. Btw, virtually no employment, either self or otherwise, is permitted on a visitor visa.

To add to the SSN / I-9 / E-verify question, in several places the status of dancers as IC ("independent contractors") is being questioned. Different moves in different places by different actors, generally in favor of treating them like employees. Thus 401ks and better OSHA safety and so on ... supposedly. I assume that would be a helluva headache for clubs as they exist right now (but then, I don't know much, I haven't ever had payroll more than three humans and that was only when expensed directly to an individual client for an individual case).

I can't really reason in my mind, that a dancer's behavior is more like an employee than like an independent contractor. Are the clubs going to have different tiers of sexual services? "Gracie, grade one employee, blowjobs only, anywhere in club. Savannah, promoted to full service, but only in Champagne Room. Used condoms exchanged for service tickets at desk in women's dressing room lobby."

I agree w RonJax that it's a dumb system to have the employer be the cop -- that's a direct conflict of his interest, because on the one hand he wants the most labor for the least price, whereas on the other hand the government is also demanding of him that he increase his own cost by seeking out, finding, and rejecting groups of applicants who would be more likely to have lower price. We do this mixed-messages thing with a lot of regulation, can't really figure out ideal solutions for each situation. I don't want the Nuclear Power industry to have literally no police except the Federal policing authorities, but I also don't trust them and market-pressures alone to self-regulate.

I-9 forms require either just a U.S. passport OR two forms of other government issued credentials - the first is typically an ID or driver's license, and the second form provided by my employee is almost always 100% of the time their Social Security card. We are required to make photocopies of everything and submit the copies of the ID's along with the original paperwork.

I believe strip clubs just have to ensure the independent contractors (aka dancers) they use are at least 18. Since independent contractors are responsible for paying their own taxes and don't receive any benefits from the club nor an hourly wage (they actually pay the club for the privilege of working there) there is no reason for the club to require anything beyond something that states the dancers age.

Yes - agree with the guys who laughed at the bullshit about cocaine being the illegal thing that may or may not happen in the lap dance room. If there was a shred of honesty she would have said sex. Bitches don’t even know how to tell the truth.

@studme53 Oh they know how to, especially when going after what they want (money and hot guys). They just know maintaining optics through deception is their biggest power.

Freakonomics lets a major economic driver of stripping, maybe the biggest - extras in the private rooms - go unmentioned. Lousy reporting and poor examination of the economics of stripping.