Left versus Right

Saturday, June 3, 2023 8:25 PM
For those of you who haven't been keeping up with U.S. politics, the "Left" does not represent actual liberalism, and the "Right" does not represent actual conservatism. Both parties have been taken over by the extremes, where if you are not their friend, then you *must* be their enemy. There is no middle ground for them. Neither represents actual real people just trying to live their lives.

125 comments

Like those two ultra extremist Hamilton and Jefferson?
Techman
a year ago
Agree. There are forces at work here pulling in each direction primarily for power and secondarily for big-time-$$$ - and the avg citizen gets stuck in the middle usually non-the wiser w.r.t. the players behind the scenes pulling the strings - even many of the recruited foot-soldiers ( Antifa etc) don't really know they're being used by those seeking power that use young idealistic people as a means to their end - it's been repeated throughout the world and throughout time.
Papi_Chulo
a year ago
On the Right there are many that speak out of both sides of their mouths - behind the scenes many in the Right are sold-out to corporate-interest$; and many specifically have/are making insane-fortune$ doing business in China which to different levels undermine the U.S. and the rest if the free-world
Papi_Chulo
a year ago
In my simple-mind a possible "remedy" (not solution) is smaller government. The U S. has a $20+ trillion GDP - - and with that a huge bloated government with a lot of control over those $20+ trillion - at best government inefficiency creates a huge waste of money and resources - at worst you have a whole bunch of grifter$ looking to enrich themselves via the bloated-government instead of trying to serve the country.
Papi_Chulo
a year ago
GMD You’re preaching to me choir, I’ve been saying this exactly for years
twentyfive
a year ago
^ fuck you Leftie 😁
Papi_Chulo
a year ago
I guess I was born to be a Rightie which probably explains why my right testicles is bigger than my left one
Papi_Chulo
a year ago
@georgmicrodong I will play along and comment on your discussion. You should know by now that; “It’s never been about left vs right (or Democrats vs Republicans or whites vs blacks or blacks vs asians or BLM vs White Supremacists etc etc) More like 0.1% of regular ass humans (the media, the politicians, the religious leaders, the puppet presidents, the rich and powerful, etc etc) tricking the rest of us into fighting among ourselves while they rob us blind.” ~ SanchoRG, Texas ~ Joined Aug, 2017 “America sucks and needs to be dismantled.” ~ Papi_Chulo, TUSCL, August 14, 2020 ~ White privileged (Cuban) residing in Miami, FL ^ Sad but so true Papi. ~ Warrior15, TUSCL, August 14, 2020 ~ Just a Monger looking for some Action
CJKent_band
a year ago
@ Papi The bigger testicle is the liberal one
twentyfive
a year ago
Help me out guys…..liberals, conservatives, left, right etc. which terms are attributed to Republicans and which to Democrats? Over here, left is Labour Party and right is Conservative Party, though you would not think so with the present Government.
londonguy
a year ago
The Republicans used to be conservative but now they’re mostly anti everything
twentyfive
a year ago
@lg Right/Conservatives is generally attributed to Republicans Left/Liberals is generally attributed to Democrats
Papi_Chulo
a year ago
@londonguy: Left and Liberal are associated with the Democrats, and Right and Conservative are associated with Republicans. Note that neither "Liberal" nor "Conservative" (capitalized) actually mean what the words mean. They've passed beyond the rational ideology represented by the concepts originally described by those words, and transformed into dogma, not subject to debate or dissent. From what I understand though, almost all of American politicians are considered fairly fair right of center when compared to the rest of the world.
georgmicrodong
a year ago
@Papi_Chulo: "behind the scenes many in the Right are sold-out to corporate-interest$" More than a few examples of that on *both* sides of the aisle.
georgmicrodong
a year ago
Thanks, GMD
londonguy
a year ago
While this is a remarkably civil discussion, I've gotta say that if Founder would ban politics from the Discussion board and bring back Stripper Photos, it would be a more than fair trade.
Manuellabore
a year ago
Good post. Totally agree. The extremists on both sides makes the headlines but only represent a small % of the country
motorhead
a year ago
I have discovered that I can jack off with my left as well as my right. Does that make me a poly-tician ?
Warrior15
a year ago
When I see comments by Bill Maher it gives me hope. I used to think he was far left but even he has been calling out extremists on both sides and calling Democrats the party of “no common sense”
motorhead
a year ago
^ from what I've heard it's a similar thing with Joe Rogan
Papi_Chulo
a year ago
One thing that's for sure, Biden is a piece of shit cocksucker.
misterorange
a year ago
Please note in most of Europe and Canada, our democratic party would be center right and our Republican party far extreme Right. This is a change from 20-30 years ago when both parties were further left than now.
JamesSD
a year ago
^^ In other words, we're fucked up, just not quite as fucked up as Canada yet.
misterorange
a year ago
"Texts Show Teachers Union Working With CDC Director To Keep Schools Closed" Newly obtained text messages show the heads of both major teachers unions personally texting then-CDC Director Rochelle Walensky as the agency was putting together a scientific analysis of reopening schools during coronavirus — with the CDC making a key change that allowed schools to stay closed and appeased the unions. On February 11, 2021, American Federation of Teachers President Randi Weingarten texted Walensky saying that she had heard a “leak” from The New York Times about what was in the CDC’s upcoming guidance, and expressed concern that it was “at odds with [their] discussion.” “They are running with a full speed ahead angle” for reopening schools, Weingarten wrote. She said the Times sent her a copy of the internal draft guidance that said, “At any level of community transmission, all schools can provide in-person instruction.” “Hmmm. Argh,” Walensky wrote to the union honcho. The next day, Walensky’s agency released guidance that was different. It said, “All schools have options to provide in-person instruction.” That allowed school districts to stay closed while still saying they were following CDC guidelines. “Middle and high schools in virtual only instruction unless they can strictly implement all mitigation strategies and have few cases,” it added. Weingarten’s union then put out a statement praising the guidance, and texted the document directly to Walensky with the message, “Thank you.” Walensky responded glowingly, saying, “This gave me the biggest smile of my week. Thank YOU, Friend!” Weingarten then gently chided the CDC director for not going further to push stricter guidelines that would keep schools closed, saying “:) we will fuss a little on ventilation but I am so grateful.” Walensky said, “Me too. Totally fair!” The text messages were obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request from the Fairfax Parents Association, a group of parents who fought to end extended school closures in a Democrat-controlled Virginia district. The messages also show the president of the other major teachers union, the National Education Association’s Becky Pringle, texting directly with the head of the agency and appearing to invoke “diversity” as an argument to keep schools closed. “Just got off the phone with your folks. I appreciate them making themselves available. But I’m very concerned about timing and our ability to get the information I talked with you re: evidence gathered in more diverse settings,” she wrote. The influence by a major Democrat constituency on science guidance raises concerns because Americans were told to “trust the science.” As it has become undeniable that school closures did more harm than good, teachers unions have since tried to rewrite history and claim they were in favor of reopening schools, even though a long trail of documents show that they consistently fought to “reopen schools safely,” with their focus being on ensuring that the definition of “safely” would mean a very high barrier to opening. Weingarten testified defiantly to Congress in April and blasted Republicans while saying the Biden administration reached out to her union for its input and that the union suggested “ideas” to the science agency. A Daily Wire analysis found that states that engaged in prolonged school closures didn’t have fewer children die with COVID than those that kept schools open. [view link]
Papi_Chulo
a year ago
The concept of Left and Right is Kabuki theater. There is the Uni-party and the People. Everyone in Washington is part of a corrupt system that gorges on the wealth of regular working people while it tries to control them. Everyone who is in on the grift looks out for each other and protects the system. That’s why no one in Washington ever goes to jail.
mark94
a year ago
The Left’s Intimidation Tactics "Girl, Father Punished For ‘Misgendering’ Boy In Girl’s Locker Room Score Legal Victory" A teen girl and her father, who were punished for “misgendering” a biological boy in the girl’s locker room, recently scored a victory in court. Blake Allen, a 15-year-old student-athlete, was suspended last year for speaking out about being made uncomfortable by the male student allowed in the girl’s volleyball locker room. The male student identifies as transgender. Allen, then 14 years old, was accused of harassing the male student after expressing her unhappiness to a fellow classmate. The girl’s father, Travis Allen, was subsequently fired from his position as a middle school soccer coach for defending his daughter and “misgendering” the trans student. The Allens filed suit against school officials following the incidents. A recent settlement in the case awards a $125,000 payment to the Allens and their attorneys, legal group Alliance Defending Freedom. It also calls for the reinstatement of Mr. Allen as soccer coach and scrubs the pair’s records of any reference to the discipline, reported the White River Valley Herald. Phil Sechler, senior counsel at Alliance Defending Freedom, said the win was a “resounding victory for freedom of speech.” “We are grateful that the school recognized it was wrong to suspend Blake from school and Travis from his coaching position simply for exercising their freedom of speech,” Sechler said. “No one should lose their job or get suspended from school for voicing their opinion or calling a male a male and we are glad to see this case resolved favorably, not only for Blake and Travis, but for all students and coaches to be able to speak freely and without fear of retaliation.” Mr. Allen, likewise, called the win “a huge victory for freedom of speech,” for him and his daughter and “anyone who wants to voice their opinion on important topics.” “Certainly, the victory for everyone to speak freely is the most important achievement with this lawsuit. It was worth it,” he said. “This has taken a toll on our family, both close and distant. It showed us who will and won’t support us even if they do not agree with our values,” he continued. “Blake’s punishment would not have been reversed had we not filed the lawsuit and I wouldn’t be able to coach in the fall if we had not reached the settlement.” “I wouldn’t change anything,” Mr. Allen said. “We currently live in a time where you have to defend your values from some pretty radical ideologies.” The teen recently spoke about the victory to attorney John Klar. She said she was happy she stood up for what was “right,” but noted some of the hardships she endured. For example, Allen recalled some of her fellow volleyball players being upset with her after she spoke to the media about the incident and her punishment. The case has indeed sparked much media attention. On Saturday, Twitter CEO Elon Musk remarked on the actions school officials took against the Allens, calling them “incredibly unjust.” The superintendent of the Orange Southwest Supervisory District, Layne Millington, has downplayed the settlement, emphasizing that the school will continue with its policies. “The Vermont School Boards Insurance Trust made the decision concerning the payment in order to cap defense expenses in what would otherwise be years of litigation,” Millington said. “The district has made no admission of wrongdoing. Our policies are unchanged and we will continue to comply with our policies and the law.” [view link]
Papi_Chulo
a year ago
When I lived in England in the 1980s, The Times and The Economist were reliably conservative. Now, I consider them both to be woke, politically correct, elitist, big government supporting publications. I think fiscal conservatism and individual freedom no longer has a voice in the UK. The Conservative Party is no longer conservative. As a result, there is no context for understanding the populism represented by Trump unless you are old enough to have experienced Margaret Thatcher. I miss Maggie.
mark94
a year ago
Other than abortion, I don't see any "extreme" proposals coming from the right. The left on the other hand... Allow shoplifting Punish those who practice self-defense No jail time for anyone Allow men access to everything women have access to, bathrooms, locker rooms, women's prisons Allow all drug use Disarm law-abiding citizens Luxury hotel rooms for illegals Pointless war with russia The left, the democrat party, is funded and controlled by the chinese communist party.
Pussylicker2
a year ago
We often refer to the “bizarro world” of strip clubs. It seems the opposition of strip clubs are where both left and right extremists are united. . The right wing Christian fundamentalists oppose strip clubs as well many on the far left, including feminists, who view it as exploitation of women and the poor.
motorhead
a year ago
The original thesis of this post is incorrect. There are elements in the Republican party which are desperately attempting to drag the party far-right, MAGA is not one of them. The entire democrat party is funded by globalists and socialists who are determined to make sure America is never great again, and to further degrade our nation and erode our strength as America could be the one nation strong enough to oppose them. That is not to say the Republican party is perfect or otherwise faultless, but is plain to see the Republicans in our nation and government are more committed to justice and equality, while the entire democrat party and their constituency are wholly committed to the injustice, anarchy, and inequality they have incorporated into their actual platform and agenda.
gammanu95
a year ago
@Pussylicker, don't forget Confiscatory taxation Reckless spending and inflation Degrowth and decline in the name of "climate" Hatred of capitalism, the single greatest engine of prosperity in history American shame over American pride Putting the federal government at the center of American life Placing the sexual fetishes of adults over the safety of children Mass unskilled illegal immigration Projecting weakness abroad Reparations from those who never owned slaves to those who never were slaves And above all, endless fragmenting of a united American people by race, gender, sexuality.
Tetradon
a year ago
These days feminists are really split on sex work, with the younger generation more ok with it. There definitely is a bit of supporting it in the abstract then socially shunning a woman who has a OF. I mean there will always be Not In My Backyard about physical strip clubs. It's like approval or prostitution increasing when it moved from streetwalkers to online. No one wants to see streetwalkers but as long as it is kept out of site out of mind it's less unpopular.
JamesSD
a year ago
The old school feminists definitely seem to come across as hypocrites on the issue. They oppose porn, prostitution and strip clubs as it exploits women but it also contradicts their core principal: “my body - my choice” They’d probably defend their position by saying they are condemning the institutions not the female participants, but how does one separate the two?
motorhead
a year ago
all leftists and feminists are all hypocrites. their actions indicate that they are, and they are all proud without showing any signs of shame of their hypocrisy.
rattdog
a year ago
For the. " liberals" it's a tale of two Roosevelts. Teddy was an old school liberal. The 30s caused most old school liberals to switch to supporting FDR. But they kept the name.
ilbbaicnl
a year ago
US conservatives are liberals bounded by religion and tradition. They see The Bible and tradition as having at least as much truth as Science. So, when Science says things like a psychological female can be born as a physical male, they're very skeptical.
ilbbaicnl
a year ago
There are corporate sponsored shills in both parties. To make sure it's heads they win tails we lose.
ilbbaicnl
a year ago
"So, when Science says things like a psychological female can be born as a physical male, they're very skeptical." This was a fringe psychological (not a hard science) theory until it became useful for activists, unless you're confusing Richard Dawkins with Billy Graham. Transgender identity is gender identity disorder, a mental illness, no different than wanting to be blind or am amputee.
Tetradon
a year ago
I tend to be fiscally conservative but I heavily support healthcare, transportation, infrastructure, and a basic standard of living to allow children to have a chance at upward mobility. I’m also a globalist who generally looks favorably on free trade. I also detest the culture wars and hate the Christian right above all things. I also dislike identity politics. Overall I’m a moderate Democrat who hates Trumpets and populists. I’m really not thrilled with anyone but I know for sure who I’m not for.
boomer79
a year ago
I repeat: "...the "Left" does not represent actual liberalism, and the "Right" does not represent actual conservatism. Both parties have been taken over by the extremes, where if you are not their friend, then you *must* be their enemy."
georgmicrodong
a year ago
Is it bad that I’m kinda hoping for a real duel, like what happened with Hamilton and Burr? Maybe it can start with something like Desantis vs Frost 😁 (Frost being the guy who made headlines for screaming anti-DeSantis profanities at a concert recently)
nicespice
a year ago
There really are multiple dimensions of political alignment. Left and right doesn’t really cover it. The Democratic Party trends towards authoritarian socialism and Trump Republicans are basically fascists. I think Biden is towards the left but he’s pretty moderate and mainstream.
boomer79
a year ago
^ and if not a duel maybe at least best out of 5 pickle ball series.
shailynn
a year ago
I love all the stupid claims that nether party is really about Americans and are controlled by the extreme. Guess what frauds, if you allow either extreme, despite their allegedly small numbers, to run the show, then it's on you. At no time in history we're more than 10% of Germans members of the nazi party. How'd that work out?
skibum609
a year ago
The best TV show to portray modern politics was “ Yes, Minister”. We are controlled by entrenched, self serving, bureaucrats.
mark94
a year ago
^ I thought we were controlled by Jewish space lasers, make up your mind Mark, your waffling is so confusing.
twentyfive
a year ago
@skibum609: "Guess what frauds, if you allow either extreme, despite their allegedly small numbers, to run the show, then it's on you." Given that the parties all but absolutely control who you can even vote for anymore, it's become increasingly hard for voters to make the kind of difference of which you speak. They've engineered the primary process such that you can't even get on the primary ballot unless the party gives their stamp of approval. And even in the actual federal election, they've managed to pass laws that all but prevent third party candidates from getting on the ballot, requiring successful petitions from *every* state on whose ballot you want to appear. The two major parties' candidates get the approval virtually automatically. The primary elections are *owned* by the parties themselves, they are not controlled by the government. Since the parties are not governmental organizations, they aren't bound by election rules in the primaries. So far, they have, for the most part, *chosen* to adhere to those rules, to give the primaries the appearance of officialdom, but they don't *have* to do so. They can include, exclude, and marginalize anyone they want, and it's all completely legal. Add in the effect of super-delegates (both parties have them, but they work differently for Demagogues and Reprobates. Dem super delegates comprise about 15% of the votes at the convention, and they can vote for whoever the want, regardless of how anyone else wants them to. Their number includes "member[s] of the official party apparatus". That includes former presidents and vice presidents, as well as all current Democratic governors and members of Congress, among others. Rep superdelegates operate differently. They make up about 7% of the convention vote and are limited to the 3 top party members from each state. They *must* all vote for the candidate that their state voted for.
georgmicrodong
a year ago
Republicans are heartless, Democrats are spineless.
CostaTheCrazyGreek
a year ago
The difference between left/RINOS and right/MAGA In 2016 Hillary Clinton sent or received over 2,000 emails with classified marking. Zero charges In November of 2022 classified documents were found in Joe Bidens garage dating back to his time in the Senate. Zero charges In 2022 classified documents were discovered in Mike Pence’s home. Zero charges Donald Trump, the only one who was President and had the power to declassify documents, had documents in his home and was raided by the FBI, had a special counsel appointed, and will most likely face criminal charges.
mark94
a year ago
^ he was the only one of those three that tried to keep the documents from being returned to where they belonged
twentyfive
a year ago
I’m pretty sure Biden was President in November 2022.
Hank Moody
a year ago
"Tucker Carlson Returns With New Show: ‘Tucker On Twitter’" Tucker Carlson inaugurated the return of his popular show on Tuesday, dropping the first episode of “Tucker on Twitter” after being taken off the air at Fox News in April. Carlson is still reportedly negotiating his exit with Fox News, where he led ratings with his primetime show “Tucker Carlson Tonight.” The network took him off the air suddenly after his last show on April 21, but he promised to bring it back in some form on Twitter Carlson went after the media and high-profile figures for accepting certain narratives as true without due scrutiny. “Not only are the media not interested in any of this, they are actively hostile to anybody who is. In journalism, curiosity is the gravest crime,” Carlson said. Carlson’s new show will challenge the orthodoxies in the media, he said, and he plans to keep the show on Twitter as long as it remains a platform committed to free speech. “As of today, we’ve come to Twitter, which we hope will be the short-wave radio under the blankets. We’re told there are no gatekeepers here. If that turns out to be false, we’ll leave. But in the meantime, we are grateful to be here,” Carlson said. [view link]
Papi_Chulo
a year ago
"Trans-Identifying Man To Compete In Miss California Pageant" A man who was crowned “Miss San Francisco” will compete in the 2023 Miss California Pageant in July. Monroe Lace, a man who identifies as a woman, won the Miss San Francisco pageant in March, qualifying the “beauty queen” to compete for the Miss California title next month. Lace is the first trans-identifying man to be crowned Miss San Francisco in the competition’s 99-year history. “Every time I put on the sash, the weight of it reminds me of the weight of my job; of the responsibility I have to make a difference for young children,” Lace told CBS Bay Area. Lace, 25, visits a different elementary school almost every day. In a video shown by the local CBS affiliate, Lace can be seen reading “Sparkle Boy,” a picture book about a boy who wants to wear women’s clothing, to a 4th-grade class at Tenderloin Community School. The trans-identifying man told KRON 4 in March that he was “dreaming about this since I was 12 years old” and ran away from home. In 2021, Kataluna Enriquez, another man identifying as a woman, competed in the Miss USA pageant as Miss Nevada. Lace seeks to be the second trans-identifying man to compete at the national competition. Another man competed in the Miss New Hampshire competition after being crowned “Miss Greater Derry” last November. The Miss San Francisco winner claims to have received death threats and “mean comments about my appearance or the way I look.” Despite this, Lace is undeterred from his child-focused mission, saying that he “know[s] that there’s a trans kid out there … who is reading [Lace’s] story as well.” CBS interviewed one 4th grader, who described Lace’s appearance as “beautiful” and “normal.” The push for men to compete in women’s competitions has become an intense cultural and political question, prompting GOP presidential hopeful Nikki Haley to label the issue “the women’s issue of our time.” Female athletes like Riley Gaines and Paula Scanlon have spoken out against men in women’s sports, particularly concerning male swimmer Lia Thomas. Recently, ESPN commentator Samantha Ponder broke with her company’s orthodoxy to speak out against men competing in women’s sports. Last year, a federal court ruled that Miss USA, whose winner competes for the Miss Universe title and is a separate organization from Miss America, could keep its “natural born female” policy under the First Amendment’s Free Speech clause. [view link]
Papi_Chulo
a year ago
Instead of gender-based leagues, maybe there should just be A, B, C, etc. leagues. Teams or individuals would move up and down between leagues, based on win/loss record. For tackle football and hockey with body checking, you'd probably need weight limits for lower leagues, for safety reasons. The main purpose of not-for-profit athletics is supposed to be getting kids/people physically active. The current system does nothing for the kids/people who actually are most in need of getting more physically active. No place for them. People should get real and let for-profit sports do what makes them money. Realistically, that includes the more popular college sports. Beauty contests vs. porn is like non-alcoholic beer vs. real beer. Who gives af?
ilbbaicnl
a year ago
^ Except that all those A, B, C leagues would be dominated by men. When the USWNT loses to a U-15 team, the genders should clearly not be competing against each other. There needs to be a league for anyone who has or ever had a penis. They used to be called "men," and those without called "women." Perhaps we should stick with what works and has worked, and not take athletic competition away from women because it hits some men who cosplay as women in the feels.
Tetradon
a year ago
In 1985 O'Brien tells Winston Smith that the truth is what the party says is the truth and that 2+2 = 5. Trans women are similar. Everything the left does is done to destroy the United States and replace it with an Orwellian left wing Government, with China being their example to follow.
skibum609
a year ago
And the Right wants to destroy the United States and replace it with a Caliphate style right wing government, with Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Irag being their examples.
georgmicrodong
a year ago
The Independent is reporting that a Jack Smith grand jury will vote tomorrow or next Thursday in DC and/or FL whether to indict Big Mac Donald. Mark Meadows is cooperating and pleading guilty to several charges in exchange for leniency. The charges include violations of the Espionage Act for keeping and refusing to return documents relating to the national “defence” which does NOT require that the documents were classified. That would shoot down the brilliant “I declassified them with my thought” defense.
Hank Moody
a year ago
The right is the United States, if you look back in history. The left is foreign to this formerly fine land. The Independent is reporting; an oxymoron if we ever heard one. Hope Trump goes to jail. That guarantees no more Biden/Harris.
skibum609
a year ago
The President, any President, has an unlimited power to declassify any document. Trump, while President, declared that any document he removed from the WH was automatically declassified. All the documents he removed were known to the national archives staff and held in a secure room guarded by the Secret Service. He was negotiating with the national archives whether to return some of these documents. Instead of continuing to negotiate, the FBI raided his home in a very public way taking thousands of documents, including a small number of formerly classified documents. Many of the documents were personal records. The vast majority were unclassified. The thousands of classified documents held in multiple locations by Joe Biden were obtained when he was Senator or Vice President, a time when he had no power to declassified. They were not secure. Beyond keeping them in his garage, many were in a Chinatown office at a time when Biden family members were being given millions of dollars by the Chinese. There are records on Hunter’s laptop proving he shared classified info with his foreign business partners. Given these facts, the DOJ has decided to indict Trump while the FBI conceals records showing the millions paid to the Biden family by foreign governments. All this, so Democrats can use a Trump indictment to hide their own corruption.
mark94
a year ago
The Democrats are all cunts and so is Donald Trump.
skibum609
a year ago
Mark, you are wrong on the facts and the law, but that’s what we’ll find out in court. I was of the opinion after the FBI went to mar a lago that Biden should pardon Big Mac Donald on this. I incorrectly assumed Dolt 45 would just return the docs and the whole case was stupid. Why would a guy who considered himself a law and order guy refuse to comply? Wtf does he even need the docs for? But no, he needed to show how tough he was and keep the docs, mislead his own lawyers into making their own false statements to the fbi and doj and now there’s a tape of him knowingly stating that he’s holding a classified doc in 2021. He could’ve made this go away but instead he’s forced Smith to indict him. He deserves it.
Hank Moody
a year ago
I have one question, what the fuck did Donald Trump intend to do with the classified documents that he didn’t return properly, that’s the real question, I’m sure he felt he could profit from them somehow.
twentyfive
a year ago
^Yeah and Joe Biden the thug crook taking money from China meant to use the documents he stole for wallpaper.
skibum609
a year ago
^ that doesn’t answer my question
twentyfive
a year ago
^They both did it for profit and the fact that one is charged and the other isn't simply shows that America owes Mitch McConnell her undying gratitude for keeping that reprehensible criminal, Merrick Garland, off the Scotus bench. The real American hates Biden and Trump.
skibum609
a year ago
^ Mitch McConnell had no idea who he was keeping off the bench, as far as I’m concerned he’s just another self enriching swamp dweller.
twentyfive
a year ago
Look at two bits and SkiDumb pretending they know something about the topic. Isn’t that cute, in a mongoloid sort of way?
Mate27
a year ago
Look at maté trying to insult me hi mate, you’re an idiot
twentyfive
a year ago
Ski's right. Keeping Merrick Garland off SCOTUS is a highlight of his career. We can now see what bitter partisan hack Garland really is. This insane partisan prosecution of Trump is new low for the leftists and democrat party. What Hillary and Biden have done is 1000x worse. You want to talk obstruction of justice? How about deleting thousands of files and physically destroying phones and servers? Servers that we know were accessed by China, Russia, and Iran. espionage Act? China paid for the building where Biden kept some of his stolen documents. Trump's documents were inside Mar-a-lago in a locked room! A former POTUS can take any documents created during his term. Biden's were in an minimum security residential garage in a heap by the door! Senators and VPs cannot do that. There are very real crimes being injured by the DOJ and FBI in favor of partisan attacks which only destroy the credibility of our justice system and tear our nation apart!
gammanu95
a year ago
The new head of the FBI counter terrorism division appeared before Congress recently. That’s the division that knowingly pushed the false Steele document, as documented by the Durham report She was asked about the Durham report. She said she hadn’t read it, hadn’t been briefed on it, and had no interest in it.
mark94
a year ago
STATEMENT FROM CONGRESSMAN HUNT ON THE BIDEN DOJ INDICTMENT OF PRESIDENT TRUMP On very same day the FBI agreed to allow members of the Oversight Committee to review documents tying Joe Biden to a $5 Million bribery scheme with a foreign national, President Trump is informed that he will be indicted by Biden’s DOJ. Coincidence?
mark94
a year ago
I see a lot of “but what abouts”. What I don’t see is anyone saying the Victim in Chief didn’t do it. At least he got a very friendly judge in a very friendly venue.
Hank Moody
a year ago
“What I don’t see is anyone saying the Victim in Chief didn’t do it. “ He committed no crime. What he did was 100% legal and consistent with what every other President has done.
mark94
a year ago
A President can declassify any document for any reason in any quantity in any manner he wants. Presidents can, and do, keep unclassified documents ( including classified documents they declassified )for any purpose they want. Typically, these documents eventually are given to a Presidential library for research purposes. Or, a President might use it to write an autobiography. Or, they could put them in a bonfire. It’s up to them. Trump did nothing illegal, unlike the Biden crime family.
mark94
a year ago
You are wrong on the law and on the facts. He can’t declassify anything he wants. He’s on tape saying he had a classified doc in 2021. He asked for this indictment. All he had to do was give the docs back. Whatever. I won’t convince you. You won’t convince me. We’re just repeating each side’s talking points now. I’ll bet you $100 he gets convicted or pleads to a crime. You get the benefit of home court and a sympathetic referee. I’ll still take my chances with a federal prosecutor. If you don’t want to bet, we can just watch the trial and one of us can say I told you so in 18 months.
Hank Moody
a year ago
Here’s what the American Bar Association said about it. It boils down to a President can do whatever the fuck he wants, no matter what procedures the bureaucrats try to put in place. The only exception is if he commits a crime of espionage. That’s why the indictment includes espionage charges. How does a President commit espionage by keeping documents in a secure room guarded by Secret Service ? [view link]
mark94
a year ago
Except he didn’t keep the docs in a locked room. He had his minions move them all around Mar a lago to hide them from the fbi. Hid them in his bedroom. In a ballroom. In a bathroom. He’s full of shit and his cult keeps making excuses for him. According to the complaint, some of those docs were battle plans and analyses of our own vulnerabilities. He’s a piece of shit.
Hank Moody
a year ago
Joe Biden was withholding 1,850 BOXES of classified document from when he served as VP with no declassification authority. He had boxes at the University of Delaware. He had boxes in Chinatown, DC. He had boxes in Pennsylvania( at a foundation funded by China ) He had boxes in his wide open garage in Delaware. But no indictment. No FBI raid. No grand jury. No special prosecutor. His lawyers were allowed to review the documents before turning them in
mark94
a year ago
From Vivek Ramaswamy “Biden recently dismissed the Chinese spy balloon incident as a “silly balloon” that got in the way of dialogue with China. Then a silly Chinese warship harassed our U.S. Navy in the Taiwan Strait. Now a silly Chinese spy base just pops up in Cuba with zero response from the U.S. President. The CCP’s investment in Biden Inc. is paying off handsomely. It’ll be interesting to see what the Espionage Act has to say about that.”
mark94
a year ago
^ The fact of the matter is that Donald J. Trump is responsible for his own problems and no one else, including Joe Biden, has to answer the docket Tuesday with his freedom at stake, if the Republican Party doesn’t cut him loose another opportunity will be lost, and our country will pay a price for coddling this grifter.
twentyfive
a year ago
A friend of Hunter Biden’s, Kathy Chung, was a key figure in removing classified documents held by Joe Biden while vice President. She was also a key figure in the Bill Clinton Chinagate investigation. [view link]
mark94
a year ago
I am occasionally tempted to contribute to these threads, but then I remember that it's a lot of typing to compose arguments that will not change a single opinion or perspective for people who I don't know. And that's when I go do work or go to the club.
Call.Me.Ishmael
a year ago
Trump is toast. The indictment is very compelling. It's not just that he kept confidential documents after leaving office. He was given multiple opportunities to return them, which would likely have avoided this outcome had he complied. But he didn't. Instead, he repeatedly evaded, stalled and obstructed efforts to have them returned. Basically, he gave the justice system a big middle figure, which isn't very smart. Now we learn there were national defense secrets involved, with information that could have harmed our troops and our country had it got into the wrong hands. He knew they were classified and sensitive, and still lied and obstructed efforts to return them. As the saying goes, "The cover up is worse than the crime".
wld4tatas
a year ago
^ Does that mean you support indicting Joe Biden ? He did all that, plus his son shared the information with foreigners while being paid millions.
mark94
a year ago
When there is compelling evidence, authenticated by credible sources, then I'll believe it and support an indictment based on the seriousness of the offense. Until then, it's all "more right wing bullshit". Just like the Hillary Clinton emails which the right wing is now reviving and peddling as comparable to Trump's crimes, which is complete bullshit intended to manipulate MAGA voters.
wld4tatas
a year ago
But what about my former landlord's first cousin's neighbor's dog's breeder's babysitter who stole a candy bar from a drug store in 2002? What are you gonna do about that, huh?
georgmicrodong
a year ago
Keep whatabouting Mark. It’s on brand. Yes, I do support indicting Joe and/or hunter if they committed a crime. I incorrectly assumed Mango Unchained would’ve just returned the docs when asked but if the allegations in the indictment are true, he intentionally took state secrets and hid them from the government trying to recover them. It’s indefensible. Not taking my bet for $100?
Hank Moody
a year ago
Trump was indicted based on a false document that was paid for by Hillary. So far, Joe Biden: Opened our borders. Took bribes from Ukraine and gave them unlimited billions back. Started a war with Russia. Appears to be stage 4 dementia. Brings in 10s of millions of unvetted illegals. Spent Trillions on pet projects that caused explosive inflation and interest rates Used the DOJ to go after a political opponent… So, yea, we have a two tier system. And, yes, the legal bias aimed at Trump is unprecedented.
mark94
a year ago
I meant to say Trump was impeached
mark94
a year ago
The whataboutism that abounds in this thread is illustrative of my original post, i.e. he who is not my friend must be my enemy. Both Trump and Biden are crooks, just like Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Regan, Ford, and Nixon before them. They're *all* crooks, and while some would argue that the offenses of some are more egregious than others, those arguments often boil down to whose ox is being gored at the time. The notion that either major U.S. political party has a lock on crookedness is ludicrous.
georgmicrodong
a year ago
Progressives are a cancer on humanity.
skibum609
a year ago
"Progressives are a cancer on humanity." As are reactionary zealots.
georgmicrodong
a year ago
^ wah said the progressive with hurt feelings.
skibum609
a year ago
GMD yep - “their all crooks”. But you didn’t go back far enough. JFK. Kennedy’s may be the biggest crooks of them all
motorhead
a year ago
"Christian Korean Women-Only Spa Ordered To Admit Naked Trans Clients" A federal judge ordered a Korean-American women’s spa with compulsory nudity to admit men who identify as women, even if they have intact penises, in a decision on Monday. Olympus Spa attempted to sue the Washington State Human Rights Commission (WSHRC) after being ordered to remove any mention of “biological women” from their website and to admit transgender men without question. Senior District Judge Barbara Rothstein dismissed the lawsuit, upholding the WSHRC’s orders as legal and requiring the spa to comply. Haven Wilvich, a man who identifies as a woman, complained to the WSHRC in 2020 and claimed the spa declined his membership request. Wilvich alleged that the spa said, “transgender women without surgery are not welcome.” The spa disputed this claim, stating they had no record of an application. The family-owned spa is modeled on jjimjilbang — traditional sex-segregated bathhouses in Korea. The spa only admitted trans-identified men if they had “gone through post-operative sex confirmation surgery.”  In March 2021, the WSHRC served spa owner Myoon Woon Lee with a Notice of Complaint of Discrimination. The spa’s president, Sun Lee, explained to the commission that Olympus was a family-owned “women’s Korean traditional health spa” that required nudity for certain treatments. “We firmly believe it is essential for the safety, legal protection, and well-being of our customers and employees that we maintain adherence to this adaptation of a females-only rule,” Lee wrote. The president also educated the board on the traditions of Jjimjilbang, arguing that the spa had “worked so hard over many years to build and preserve, simply for the sake of promoting gender neutrality.” Both the owner and the president said they were Christian and cited their faith — the Christian belief in modesty between the sexes — as a reason why they did not wish to accept biological males into the women’s nude spa. Employees also involved in the suit — all of whom were women — refused to perform body scrubs on naked men, citing Christian principles as well. The District Court rejected their religious liberty claim. CLICK HERE TO GET THE DAILYWIRE+ APP The court upheld the WSHRC’s requirement that the spa removes all references to biological women from their site and subject their staff to “inclusivity” training. The spa challenged this as “compelled speech” in violation of the First Amendment, which Rothstein also rejected. The court rejected the spa’s third argument, which claimed that the WSHRC’s requirement of admitting men violated the right of association. After the WSHRC ruling in 2021, Wilvich celebrated on social media, saying the order allowed “all self-identified women access regardless of surgery and genitals.” “I realized something important today. I‘m more woman than any TERF [trans-exclusionary radical feminist] will be because I am an intentional woman whereas they are only incidental,” Wilvich also said. Before Wilvich began to transition, he sat on the board of the Seattle Nonbinary Collective, describing himself as a “tall, bearded, transfemme, King County native,” according to the Daily Mail. [view link]
Papi_Chulo
a year ago
@Papi, I think all this gender confusion nonsense leads to a "the emperor has no clothes" moment. Already pushback against giving puberty blockers out like they're candy, and falsely claiming they're safe when they've never been formally studied for gender transition. Those horrible reactionary autocracies the UK, Sweden, and Finland are pumping the brakes on this madness. I find the idea of "affirming" someone's gender confusion by lopping off their dick and balls as appalling as "affirming" someone's anorexia by giving diet pills and liposuctions to someone who's twenty pounds underweight. They are mentally ill people who need therapy and treatment for delusional thinking.
Tetradon
a year ago
Here’s something to consider for those convinced Trump is headed for a conviction. That would require 12 out of 12 jurors to find him guilty. Florida jurors. It will only take one MAGA juror to stand in the way of a conviction. What are the odds ?
mark94
a year ago
Washington judge orders female-only spa with compulsory nudity to admit transgender women with penises, after owner said facility was for 'biological women only' and pre-op trans activist complained
mark94
a year ago
Today, the LGBT flag flew at the Whitehouse, flanked by the American flag. The LGBT flag had the dominant position, against all protocol.
mark94
a year ago
The LGBT alphabet mafia is out of control. They exert way to much dominate control for 2-3 % of the population
motorhead
a year ago
@skibum609: "^ wah said the progressive with hurt feelings." If that was to me, and not to someone I have on ignore, did you miss the part where I agreed with you? *Both* progressives (as the term is understood today) *and* the reactionaries are pieces of shit, interested mostly in control, and almost completely uninterested in anything like the "common good".
georgmicrodong
a year ago
GMD theyre not all crooks neither are most crooks. People on the internet have odd standards when it comes to certain career paths like cops, politicians, and maybe strippers and escorts. If an nba player or a fast food worker or student goes around killing people these same people wont then say the whole team or coach or principal or classroom is responsible but when it comes to certain, hated professions theres a totally different tune. It has to be all politicians or all cops if someone in those professions does something. All the presidents and probably most the presidents werent crooks it’s something poor or trashy people talk about online on places like the reddit conspiracy forums.
rickmacrodong
a year ago
Not to mention the LGB flag flys at US embassies around the work. We are a laughing stock.
mark94
a year ago
I'm starting to sense a subtle but troubling shift in the conservative argument against trannies invading women's private spaces. It seems there is more of an emphasis on the existence (or non-existence) of a penis. Almost like if the dude has his penis removed, that somehow makes it more acceptable for him to go in the ladies locker room, or walk around in a spa with a bunch of naked women. I understand it's offensive and shocking for a woman in a supposedly female-only area to turn around and see some dude with his junk in his hand. But I think it's at least AS creepy, if not even MORE creepy, that the dude is able to be there among all these naked women, taking a good look at whatever he wants. If he was wearing a towel to cover himself, would that make it any more acceptable for him to be there? For fuck's sake, if some poor bastard had his dick ripped off in a freak accident, does that make it okay for him to stroll on into the ladies shower room at Planet Fitness? I guess my point is that people are using the term "pre-op" as a way to enhance the vulgarity of the dude's behavior, and that's not necessarily incorrect, but it inadvertently presumes "post-op" is just a little bit more tolerable, which it isn't.
misterorange
a year ago
^ I don’t know, seems to me after hearing how some of these women talk, that they might welcome some guy with his dick literally in his hand. 😂😂
twentyfive
a year ago
^A lowering of inhibitions, often disclosed by genital preoccupation or making childish genitalia-oriented jokes, is a clinical marker of dementia.
gammanu95
a year ago
I’ve always enjoyed watching women’s sports and am a huge supporter. When Annika Sorenstam and Karrie Webb were dueling in the late 90’s and early 2000’s the LPGA was a more compelling watch than the Men’s PGA. (Then every name on the top 20 of each week’s leaderboard was “Park”, but I digress). I’ve been watching the women’s NCAA basketball tournament for 20+ years, long before it became chic this year. So it disgusts me that more women athletes are not speaking out strongly against men competing against women. 50 years after feminists fought for Title IX, they are letting it all slip away.
motorhead
a year ago
There are two trans athletes of any notoriety that I’m aware of. The college swimmer who I assume has graduated and isn’t competing anymore and Quinn, a soccer player on Canada’s national team. Not sure if she is still playing and will compete in the World Cup this summer. That’s it. Maybe if my daughter was competing against a trans athlete in HS I’d care more, but much of the trans athlete issue seems to be overblown given how rare it is.
Hank Moody
a year ago
Lia Thomas, the swimmer at Penn is the person making the news - but on the high school level, it’s happening more than the public may realize. Especially in track & fiend and soccer. In my state, Ohio, there are 6 transgender athletes competing in girls soccer alone
motorhead
a year ago
In a broader sense, I'm often asked why conservatives care about the trans issue, given how little of the population is trans. The answer is because the left rubs our noses in it constantly. Vivek has a great video on LinkedIn, how the left ran out of rights to defend and now has to create new ones out of whole cloth. In this case, exercising that "right" involves the physical and chemical mutilation of children, the marginalization of others (like female athletes or women that don't want flapping dicks in female only spaces), and the average American to pay for it all. And to top it all off, it doesn't cure the mental illness that started the whole chain of events. The left has their "truthy" answers and phrases ("live daughter or dead son", "it's like being left handed") that don't stand up to fact and examination. And when we see through those, they threaten our livelihood. But it doesn't make it any more true. Sad how many people get their moral priorities from Twitter or mass media.
Tetradon
a year ago
I think it was on Jayson Whitlock’s podcast that he contends that Lia Thomas is pulling a big scam on the liberals. The dude is as heterosexual as everyone on TUSCL but gets to show off his junk in front of a locker room full of naked women. Not too mention he gets to watch hot athletic 18-22 women undress in front of him. He’s pulling the wool over the eyes of the libs. He found a loophole in the system and exploited it. Dude needs to go to strip clubs and pay for it like the rest of us
motorhead
a year ago
The term liberal is used very differently than its original definition. From wiki: “Classical liberalism is a political tradition and a branch of liberalism that advocates free market and laissez-faire economics; civil liberties under the rule of law with special emphasis on individual autonomy, limited government, economic freedom, political freedom and freedom of speech. “ The modern progressives, once known as liberals, believe in the exact opposite of what liberalism once meant. Weird
mark94
a year ago
The paradigm of the alphabet people is a wonderful illustration of the paradigm of socialism and communism in general.They insist that you use their terminology and you are severely punished and ostracized if you behave or speak in a manner contrary to what they want. This is why the alphabet people are so closely aligned with sociology and communism, they are socialists and communists themselves they want you to speak the way they want and think the way they want. They want those who disagree or speak out against them in any way to be censored, ostracized, to lose their livelihood, to lose their friends. That is the root problem which draws so many straighten and heterosexual Americans to push back so hard against this insidious agenda. It is fundamentally incompatible with most of the freedoms guaranteed and described in the Constitution and completely contrary to the American way of freedom or live and let live. You can do virtually anything you want behind closed doors, but it was only very recently that you were allowed to take whatever you do behind closed doors l, throw it in other people's faces, and force them to accept it no matter how sick and depraved it may be. There are also so many abuses that can be perpetrated using "gender identity" as an excuse - men can compete in women's sports with unfair biological advantages, perverts can use women's and girls bathrooms, locker rooms, and showers, ogling women in various states of undress to satisfy their perverted lust. If a woman objects to this she is excoriated, called names, labeled a transphobe, and others who would agree with her are discouraged from coming to her support and speaking out. How can anyone possibly say that all of that is OK? How can you question why so many Americans would object to that behavior, that unfair competition, and that kind of victim blaming and shaming? Patriots have an obligation to object to this. It is fundamentally wrong. It is a straight line to the irreparable destruction of our national moral core.
gammanu95
a year ago
In the progressive’s quest for Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion they seem to be letting two of the three (D & I) outweigh Equity. Where’s the fairness (equity) in letting biological males compete against females? That’s totally lost in their mindset. I really believe there’s going to have to be a third category in high school, college and Olympic sports.
motorhead
a year ago
Including biological males in female sports will result in an effective end to women’s sports. We will have only male sports, whether they are dressed as men or dressed as women.
mark94
a year ago
@motor "I really believe there’s going to have to be a third category in high school, college and Olympic sports." That's the LAST thing the so-called trans community would ever want, accept or participate in. First of all, no one would watch it, so it would be like six dudes in mini skirts playing half court basketball in an empty gymnasium. But more importantly, it's not disruptive enough to the other 99% of society. If they can't ruin other people's lives, destroy their hopes and ambitions, and take away everything they've spent years working for, then they won't be happy. Their goal is not "winning" in the traditional sense, nor is it "equality". The goal is to feel better about themselves by making other people miserable.
misterorange
a year ago
^ It has elements of a dominance ritual. Like the Party in 1984 making people say that 2+2=5 if the party said so, it's that physically and chemically mutilated men are women, that sexual orientation is ingrained from birth but gender identity isn't, and that gender identity disorder isn't a mental illness or social contagion. It's about intimidation and force.
Tetradon
a year ago
As someone in the center-left lane of politics, this trans stuff is boggling and certainly not in my top 20 list of important issues. My best guess is there have been various pockets of activism on the left, that the right magnified into some big issue for the entire country, and the tide of political correctness has allowed it to progress farther in some cases than it should. Letting "women" who used to be men compete against biological women is crazy. It's hard to tell the real scale of the issue though, with Fox News finding some new trans story to run on their front page every week, in a country of 330 million.
wld4tatas
a year ago
And then there's this: [view link]
misterorange
a year ago
Wild4tatas - It’s a encouraging to see a left of center person admit the craziness in this transgender issue. Even Martina Navratilova, one of the early advocates of LGB athletes is even slamming the men who compete as women. The most recent story is a male long distance cyclist competing against women. In one race he won $35k. Maybe it’s gonna take something like this - where is man is robbing the financial livelihood and ability of females to earn cash that will be the big wake-up call for progressives who claim it doesn’t matter. The answer to everyhing is “money” as legendary TV sports guru Don Ohlmeyer once said.
motorhead
a year ago
DeSantis-PAC Ad: [view link]
Papi_Chulo
a year ago
America is still a center-Right nation. The problem we face is a mainstream media controlled by far-left zealots reporting as if far left is the norm and mainstream. Consider what is happening at CNN, when former CEO Chris Licht was let go because the far left CNN zealots were outraged that he was trying to move the network's reporting to the center.
gammanu95
a year ago
Let's see how the left responds when James Harden comes out as Trans and wants to play in the WNBA.
skibum609
a year ago
^ Lol. Long as Jamie Harden keeps the beard in the WNBA.
Tetradon
a year ago
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