That's a good news, bad news situation, we need to pass some type of regulation that prevents our people from being able to visit countries in some way that compromises our national interest. Not really sure how that might work, but these situations need to stop happening, not just with the Russians, but the North Koreans, the Iranians and to a lesser extent with China and several other countries that seek to extract political concessions from the United States.
With 1500-2000 forgotten Americans imprisoned overseas for drug crimes the idea we traded a terrorist planning to attack Americans for some lowlife like Griner just encourages other countries to do more of the same. Another day another Joe fucking Biden fuckup. Should have left her there.
Her stupidity cost us a lot. The only reason she got traded was because of her fame, but maybe that’s enough. She’s an American citizen and 10 months in Russian jail and penal colony is extreme of course by American standards for getting caught with two vape cartridges. Putin won this but we needed to get her back.
She didn't endanger national security by going to Russia or even by being arrested in Russia. There is nothing about a basketball player that endangers national security, it isn't like she was someone that knew information vital to national security that was arrested and interrogated or possibly tortured for that information.
The only way her arrest endangered national security is that politicians were willing to release an arms dealer that in the course of his business sells weapons to those who endanger our national security in exchange for her. That deal that politicians made endangered national security plain and simple.
You want a rule to prevent things like this from endangering national security in the future? How about a regulation that says US officials aren't allowed to negotiate a prisoner exchange for anyone that is legitimately convicted of a crime in a foreign country unless that person has information critical to our national security. If someone commits a crime in a foreign country they should face the consequences without the US compromising national security to help them out.
Sure what she did wasn't a crime that would have had her imprisoned in the US, but she wasn't in the US so she had to follow existing Russian laws. Saying that the US should negotiate for her release from Russian prison is like saying that if someone from a state where recreational marijuana is legal takes their weed to a state where it is still illegal and gets arrested as a result that their home state should be willing to release a dangerous criminal from the state where she was arrested in exchange for her being freed. If that happened the American public would be outraged just like they should be in this case.
The reason this was such a pressing issue, primarily the image, of an American Black Woman in shackles and caged, don't think for one minute, that the visuals didn't create more urgency than would normally have been given.
===> "She’s an American citizen and 10 months in Russian jail and penal colony is extreme of course by American standards for getting caught with two vape cartridges. Putin won this but we needed to get her back."
I disagree that we needed to get her back. The cost was too high. She was in prison because of her own stupidity and feelings of self-entitlement. She tried to bring vape cartridges she knew were illegal in Russia right through airport security. I suppose it's a blessing for her that she can play basketball because otherwise I can't imagine how this moron would support herself.
We didn't need her back and if she were a white male who did the same thing, we'd have done nothing. We have a simp in the white house who felt he had to get her back because she's black, she's lesbian and laws don't apply to either in the mindset of the democratic party. Only a stupid, arrogant, fucking cunt would have brought vapes to Russia.
The real question is if any one of us were arrested and sentenced to the same punishment would the American government have been willing to make the same trade? If not, then they shouldn't have done it for her. If they would, that sets a bad precedent going forward that the US will release dangerous criminals in exchange for American citizens doing stupid things abroad.
The only good thing I ever heard about Putin was that he has own private strip club in his mansion. This falls into the same category as "Hitler liked dogs". If I were Putin, I would have hung out in my private strip club and just forgotten about invading the Ukraine.
Let's see if I have this right, we just swapped an anti american arms dealing terrorist known as the merchant of death for an anti american dope smoking basketball player.
Got it!
^ No one would have heard of Griner if the fucked up Democrats weren't in control, don't confuse your politics with the facts, she's quite an accomplished sports woman. are you really so petty that you won't credit her accomplishments because you don't care for her politics SMH
She was the number one draft pick for the WNBA in 2013 she was on the US Woman's Olympic Basket Ball team that won the gold medal in 2020 Best Female Athlete ESPY Award in 2012, Naismith Woman's College Player of the Year 2012, plenty more awards as well.
I understand she is a good female athlete, but the idea that makes her mainstream recognizable is bullshit. I credit her accomplishments in sports, but the idea that those accomplishments mean she deserves special treatment or trading a terrorist for her is based on those accomplishments is pure bullshit. I bet 98% of the public would have known nothing about her except for fake left-wing media making her a cause. To me she is no different than any other spoiled shithead athlete. She went there for years for the money and then broke the law. She should pay the price, not us. Democrats can pretend all they like that women's sports are equal to men's sports, but the fact is they aren't even close. Just another rich asshole getting preferential treatment and the fact Biden left Paul Whelan there means he and everyone who supports Griner can go fuck themselves.
Trading the spy for the arms dealer seems quid pro quo. Trading for Griner is just more pathetic impotence and virtue signaling from the clown know as Joe Biden.
I do remember when I went to China a few years ago with a friend I met when she was a foreign exchange student in the US. She told me how envious she was of the US passport, because on the Chinese one it’s clearly written that if somebody either gets in trouble or something else bad happens while they are in a different country, China is not responsible for anything and that’s on the citizen if they get stuck.
In contrast, the United States will actually do more for their own citizens when they encounter problems abroad. I am not knowledgeable enough to know how how effective or ineffective the US is at doing its job there, BUT keep in mind that the United States is one out of only two countries worldwide that requires their citizens to file and pay taxes at the same marginal rate as if they were still in the US—even if they are living and earning their income elsewhere. The only way out of that obligation is to renounce your citizenship.
Just my own personal opinion, because the US has that requirement, I am biased in favor of the government doing its part to earn the tax premium it requires of its citizens. If she ends up facing harsh consequences at home though, then that’s just meh to me.
^Some people are so afraid of getting older, that they impart their fears about themselves onto others. Icee forgets that we've been young, middle aged and now old, so we know way more than she does.
===> "Trading the spy for the arms dealer seems quid pro quo. Trading for Griner is just more pathetic impotence and virtue signaling from the clown know as Joe Biden."
I agree 100%. Russia gave the U.S. a choice to gain the freedom of Griner, a dumb twat who must have been dropped on her head as a baby for doing something so stupid, or Peter Whalen, a former marine who was serving as the Head of Security for a global auto parts distributor when he was arrested. We chose to hand over the dangerous arms dealer to get the dumb twat back instead of the guy who served his country once and was just doing his job. Talk about a made for TV political exchange.
Do you have inside info Rick? Whelan has been there a while for years and that deal was never made though it could been offered/accepted during that time. It wasn’t. Yes, we were trying to get both him and Griner back now but has it been reported that we chose whom to get back?
I'm glad she got out. But this doesn't seem like a coherent policy. Is Biden going to pay our ransom if we get kidnapped in TJ? Maybe there's more to the deal than was disclosed to the public.
More stupidity and foolishness from the worst administration and dumbest president ever! Trading an international arms dealer who had conspired to kill Americans, for an ugly, anti- American, mediocre-talent, nappy-headed ho' was purely deperate attempt to claim "political victory". Not as bad as the Bergdahl deal, but damned close.
Biden does things so the clueless liars in the media can spin it as some kind of accomplishment. She’s a celebrity (I guess - watching women’s basketball is like watching the men in slow motion) so it’s also clickbate.
I guess the Russians aren’t quite as stupid as us and wouldn’t trade her for some Russian we locked up for drugs.
Meanwhile there are people serving close to life sentences for marijuana offenses in places like Texas and Mississippi. But griner got off for trafficking drugs to a foreign country
Some of you may be surprised by what I'm about to say, but I'm glad she's been released.
Yes, it was a heavy price to pay. And yeah she's a fucking jerkoff for the National Anthem stuff she pulled. There is very little that pisses me off more than the anthem kneeling crap. I didn't watch football for several years because of it.
But as much as that makes me angry, I don't think the punishment should be 9 years of forced labor in a prison camp. I was glad that scumbag Kaepernick's career fell apart. Whether it was the result of his antics or because he wasn't a very good player made no difference to me. I felt like it was karma and that was his punishment for being a fucking asshole.
People who disrespect the National Anthem or desecrate our flag make me sick. But you know what? A lot of people would say the same thing about us for the things we discuss on this website. Our type of "offensive" behavior may get someone else's blood boiling, but I'm pretty sure we don't belong in jail for it.
And there's another thing regarding her presumed "stupidity" for having cannabis oil at an airport. She's played overseas in China, as well as several seasons in Russia prior to this incident. She should have known better. But what if she actually didn't do it? Is it a stretch to think she could have been set up? I mean you've got her returning for her 3rd or 4th season I think, so she's obviously got some degree of celebrity status there. It's no secret when she'd be arriving at the airport, we've got a feckless moron for a President, and this happens like a week before the Ukraine invasion.
Perhaps Putin thought she'd be a good bargaining chip, knowing that his invasion would create a lot of controversy. And when he didn't end up using her for anything war-related, he decided to negotiate for this "merchant of death" guy instead.
I'm putting the odds that she actually had that stuff on her at 50/50. She's either a complete dumbass, or the Russians set her up. Both are equally believable. And the fact that she "confessed" and pleaded guilty means absolutely nothing. We're talking about one of the most corrupt countries on Earth. The prosecutors there aren't like NYC or LA.
Anyway, an American political prisoner is coming home and I'm okay with that.
This is not like the Bergdahl trade at all. That fuck's behavior directly led to Americans being killed and wounded. He should have been shot, or just abandoned and left with the Taliban.
I don't think anyone is arguing that her detention and imprisonment were not politically motivated. This is not about Griner, at all. It's about Biden and his administration's complete incompetence. Its about lopsided prisoner exchanges that the US always loses. It's about how the completely dishonest and disingenuous democrat party will give away the farm, sell out our fellow citizens, just to say they have a deal. The world is less safe today because of what Joe Biden did.
First of all she is a rich American athlete so the idea she didn't have a vape is a non-starter. She has been catered to by the losers on the left as if she were super special her whole life. Like that ignorant racist piece pf shit LeBron. She just assumed the law didn't apply to her. The idea that we traded an arms dealer for a useless fuck like Griner is disgusting. We'd expect a heterosexual white person to follow the laws of the host country, why is she different? Defund the police types must have creamed themselves over this.
"But what if she actually didn't do it? Is it a stretch to think she could have been set up?" Misterorange there is no reason to believe that she was actually innocent and she was framed.
She admitted in court that she did bring the vape pen with an illegal drug into Russia. She and her defense attorneys both openly stated that she brought it but it wasn't because she intended to break the law, she claims she just carelessly broke the law because she was in a hurry.
Do I think the sentence of hard labor was excessive for carrying a vape pen full of cannabis that was clearly just for personal use? Absolutely, but a lot of crimes carry excessive punishments in foreign countries but that doesn't mean that travelers don't have to obey them or face the punishment. Guess what, in Thailand you can be given the death penalty for drug possession. In parts of the middle east you can spend a long time in jail for kissing your girlfriend in public. In Singapore you can be publicly beaten with a bamboo cane for spray painting graffiti. Some foreigners from countries that don't have the death penalty would argue that it is excessive punishment to sentence a murderer to the death penalty in America.
^ The point is that this country has been working hard to undermine us at every level, I believe her attorneys pointed out that she was over charged by the Russians who then ignored every single law they have on their books just to stick it to an American, more facts are coming out, this case is about our sanctions and most of this stuff that is being discussed isn’t really what it appears to be.
It’s going to be a long time before the story actually is told and my best estimate is that there is much more below the surface than above.
Yes Russia has worked to undermine America at many levels. That isn't new and any American traveling there should be well aware of it. You should be on your best behavior and know not to commit a crime because if you get caught they are going to throw the book at you to make an example of you and show that they are standing up to America. This is especially true if you are even a little famous or work for a well known company.
The fact is a midly famous American athlete was caught committing a crime and given the maximum punishment allowed by Russian law after she was convicted. That shouldn't surprise anyone. I can understand the US government wanting to negotiate for her release and being willing to give up something like unfreezing the accounts of a Russian oligarch that was seized after the Ukraine invasion, but releasing a criminal that sells weapons of war to our enemies and terrorists around the world is too much.
I agree with everything you said in the first paragraph, best behavior and all. But if YOU know that, and I know that, don't you think someone who has made like four trips there, and collectively lived there for about a year, would also know that?
You are making the assumption that she did this thing. I can't say for sure whether she did or she didn't. But what I do know to be an absolute FACT is that Russia is as corrupt as it gets - from the Kremlin right down to the lowest ranking police officer, or government clerk, or airport security worker. Nothing is even close to what it's like here. So again, I'll say the possibility that she was set up is AT LEAST equal to the possibility that she "broke their law".
Misterorange like I said before she has admitted to doing it and has never denied the fact that she had the vape. How does that make the possibility of her being set up as likely as her having broke the law? Are you saying she lied and claimed she had drugs on her when she didn't? Why would she do that unless she was cooperating with Russia to have herself arrested to blackmail the USA?
"She admitted in court that she did bring the vape pen with an illegal drug into Russia. She and her defense attorneys both openly stated that she brought it but it wasn't because she intended to break the law, she claims she just carelessly broke the law because she was in a hurry."
>Russia gave the U.S. a choice to gain the freedom of Griner, a dumb twat who must have been dropped on her head as a baby for doing something so stupid, or Peter Whalen, a former marine who was serving as the Head of Security for a global auto parts distributor when he was arrested.
WRONG
Whelan was never seriously on the table from Russia's side. He's an accused spy and in a totally different category from their perspective. The US tried repeatedly to include him in the exchange.
Reasonable people can disagree. I just don't think it is reasonable to say that it is just as likely that she was framed as it is she actually committed the crime when she has repeatedly admitted she did what she was accused of.
I can politely disagree with people thinking that getting her back was worth giving up an arms dealer. I can also politely disagree with people that say the US shouldn't have offered anything in exchange for her. I fall somewhere in the middle where I think the US was right to negotiate for her release but I think they went to far releasing a convicted arms dealer in exchange for her. Easing some sanctions, releasing assets that were seized from Russian oligarchs, releasing a Russian prisoner that was arrested for drug dealing, fraud, hacking or some other nonviolent crime would have been appropriate in exchange for her release. The only way they should've released an arms dealer would have been in exchange for multiple Americans or someone who was falsely detained but not for a celebrity who was convicted of a drug crime that they admitted to.
The US government should have treated this case just like the cases of any other American that is arrested overseas regardless of her status as a well known athlete. For most Americans that are arrested the government wouldn't have traded an arms dealer to secure their release.
Is it Ironic that the guy who wants to come after our guns just released the largest gun dealer in the world.
I'm glad she has been released however the price we paid was too high and before you say how can you put a price on her freedom remember their are others held captive that we were not willing to get.
What message does this send to everyperson in our jails on weed charges
What message does it send to every terrorist, we set the price for getting terrorist released from prison.
NBC retro-edited its reporting to make it seem like Whelan was never offered, but it appears the former marine who served the US was purposely deemed less important than WNBA star Griner. For anyone paying attention to what's been happening in modern America, it shouldn't be hard to figure out why.
We are all Americans, I'm glad she's back, it's a sad day in this country when your political affiliation decides that any American shouldn't be free. I doubt most of y'all are perfect people, we don't decide in this country who's expendable and who's not. It's quite a sad debate that's going on here, it makes me ashamed to hear that anyone thinks only your own political affiliation deserve the protection of our government. I feel sorry for y'all, and hope none of you are ever in this situation, and we should do everything possible to secure the release of Paul Whelan and all other Americans being held in foreign jails unjustly, regardless of their political affiliation.
I think most will agree the sentence didn’t fit the crime but we simply can’t reward people who do stupid things.
Remember the 3 hikers detained by Iran back in 2009? There are about 200 million square miles of safe earth to hike on and those were plain dumb to hike in one of the handful of places they shouldn’t have. No sympathy. And I have no idea what their political affiliation was so that squashes that argument
Griner was just as dumb. No need to travel to Russia during a war and if you do, don’t carry drugs. She’s a dumb ass.
And like I said, don’t reward her. . She’ll come home, Oprah will pay her a billion dollars for an interview and she will make millions on a book deal.
@ motorhead & whodey
Something I learned today and I double checked it on several sources to be sure, in Russia in 2019 the latest year figures are available the conviction rate was over 99% in 2018 less than .25% of all criminal cases ended with an aquittal that alone should give you some insight as to whether this was a fair trial
@25 I am not saying a trial would have been fair in Russia, but there was no trial. This case never had a full trial because on the first day of testimony in the trial she admitted to the crime and plead guilty in court.
Do I think she got a harsher sentence because she is a well known American? Absolutely.
Should the US have negotiated to get her released? Yes, I would hope they would do that for any American sentenced to an excessive jail term for a relatively minor crime.
Should the US have been willing to release a major weapons trafficker that supplied weapons to groups dedicated to killing Americans to secure her release? No, there are any number of other bargaining chips they could have used instead that wouldn't have endangered American lives.
Do you think the US would have released this man to get some random person from this site released if they were sentenced to 9 years in jail for getting caught taking drugs into Russia? Would the US release El Chapo if a random PL gets arrested in Tijuana and sentenced to a decade in a Mexican jail for carrying drugs across the border? If not, what makes her more valuable than any other American that would get arrested the same way?
^ My friend I’m going to agree with you about the randomness of it all, except this girl was a well known athlete who played for a Russian team and if it was some unknown person I doubt they’d have been in this type of situation with the tiny little amount of cannibis oil that was actually found, I sincerely believe this was a setup, she might actually have had it in her possession but a unknown person would have been able to pay a bribe and be on their way.
"@25 I am not saying a trial would have been fair in Russia, but there was no trial ... she admitted to the crime and plead guilty in court."
Whodey, do you understand the contradiction in your own words? If a corrupt trial will absolutely result in a conviction, they offer you less jail time to plead guilty, and you take it, apparently in your mind that means you did it, since you admitted it.
Am I correct in assuming that YOU would have gone to trial, knowing you'd be convicted and serve a longer sentence, because in your heart you knew you were innocent?
You're damn right I would do everything possible to fight it if I am arrested for something I didn't do. No way I am going to admit to a crime that I didn't commit.
She didn't negotiate a lesser sentence, she just plead guilty and asked for leniency since she didn't mean to commit the crime and said is was just an accident because she was in a hurry when she packed.
"You're damn right I would do everything possible to fight it if I am arrested for something I didn't do."
Ok Mr. Principles. So let's say you can plead guilty and get 6 months, or go to trial, with the certainty that YOU WILL LOSE, and get 6 years. You're going to trial, right?
Won’t happen, but ya know what would go along way in helping her in the court of public opinion.
Tomorrow or no later than the next day, she needs to make a statement and admit America is not the terrible place she used to think it was. She needs to thank everyone who helped gain her freedom. She needs to apologize for her actions and remarks regarding the National Anthem. She needs renounce BLM
and admit they are a Marxist terrorist organization. And she needs to say she loves the US and is a much better place to live than Russia
"A program moderator referred to Whelan as a "spy," saying that Whelan is a hero to Americans. However, the moderator specified three things against Whelan regarding the U.S. winning his release.
His first problem is that he is white," the moderator said, according to a translation obtained by Fox News Digital. "His second problem is he is a man. His third problem: He is a heterosexual.
This is not something that can be forgiven today. It’s just a catastrophe. Yes, here Griner beats him in every aspect."
^ Russian state media, yep I'm sure there is no spin, falsehood or propaganda here.
Got to love how they all stand around nodding their heads on these Russian TV shows, while they listen to each other's bullshit. Meanwhile their country is going down the toilet. I guess they need to keep up the pro-Russia spin on anything they can, and avoid showing the truth in Ukraine, to stave off an insurrection.
'Got to love how they all stand around nodding their heads on these Russian TV shows, while they listen to each other's bullshit. Meanwhile their country is going down the toilet.'
Sounds like your describing a round table discussion on abc, nbc, cnn or msnbc, except there's nothing to love because it's America going down the toilet while they spin their bias.
^^ No doubt that is the picture Fox News wants to paint, and it's no coincidence that Russia state media uses Fox News quite a bit in it's efforts to promote division in the West.
“During her time at the penal colony, Griner's primary responsibility was carrying fabric, as she was too tall -- at 6-foot-8 -- to sit at worktables and her hands were too large to manage the job of sewing uniforms with other prisoners”
Who was President when we got Otto Warmbier back? He wasn't famous or black or gay. He went to a place more dangerous than Russia and decided to break the law.
The Russians wanted one of their contract assassins back for Whelan. Biden was down for the trade, but the assassin is in a German prison, and the Germans were not down.
In future, all US citizens going to Russia or China (or their puppet states) should be advised it's at their own risk.
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The only way her arrest endangered national security is that politicians were willing to release an arms dealer that in the course of his business sells weapons to those who endanger our national security in exchange for her. That deal that politicians made endangered national security plain and simple.
You want a rule to prevent things like this from endangering national security in the future? How about a regulation that says US officials aren't allowed to negotiate a prisoner exchange for anyone that is legitimately convicted of a crime in a foreign country unless that person has information critical to our national security. If someone commits a crime in a foreign country they should face the consequences without the US compromising national security to help them out.
Sure what she did wasn't a crime that would have had her imprisoned in the US, but she wasn't in the US so she had to follow existing Russian laws. Saying that the US should negotiate for her release from Russian prison is like saying that if someone from a state where recreational marijuana is legal takes their weed to a state where it is still illegal and gets arrested as a result that their home state should be willing to release a dangerous criminal from the state where she was arrested in exchange for her being freed. If that happened the American public would be outraged just like they should be in this case.
I disagree that we needed to get her back. The cost was too high. She was in prison because of her own stupidity and feelings of self-entitlement. She tried to bring vape cartridges she knew were illegal in Russia right through airport security. I suppose it's a blessing for her that she can play basketball because otherwise I can't imagine how this moron would support herself.
Got it!
She was the number one draft pick for the WNBA in 2013 she was on the US Woman's Olympic Basket Ball team that won the gold medal in 2020 Best Female Athlete ESPY Award in 2012, Naismith Woman's College Player of the Year 2012, plenty more awards as well.
Biden is as senile as 20fag
In contrast, the United States will actually do more for their own citizens when they encounter problems abroad. I am not knowledgeable enough to know how how effective or ineffective the US is at doing its job there, BUT keep in mind that the United States is one out of only two countries worldwide that requires their citizens to file and pay taxes at the same marginal rate as if they were still in the US—even if they are living and earning their income elsewhere. The only way out of that obligation is to renounce your citizenship.
Just my own personal opinion, because the US has that requirement, I am biased in favor of the government doing its part to earn the tax premium it requires of its citizens. If she ends up facing harsh consequences at home though, then that’s just meh to me.
I agree 100%. Russia gave the U.S. a choice to gain the freedom of Griner, a dumb twat who must have been dropped on her head as a baby for doing something so stupid, or Peter Whalen, a former marine who was serving as the Head of Security for a global auto parts distributor when he was arrested. We chose to hand over the dangerous arms dealer to get the dumb twat back instead of the guy who served his country once and was just doing his job. Talk about a made for TV political exchange.
I guess the Russians aren’t quite as stupid as us and wouldn’t trade her for some Russian we locked up for drugs.
Nappy-headed-hoes FOR THE WIN.
They can give Shaq a wig and have her play Britney.
Shaq's too husky, Dennis Rodman's a closer fit n more ways than one.
You're not a nappy-headed ho Nina. You're a x useless, dumb, failed cunt.
Get your memes straight, LOL.
Yes, it was a heavy price to pay. And yeah she's a fucking jerkoff for the National Anthem stuff she pulled. There is very little that pisses me off more than the anthem kneeling crap. I didn't watch football for several years because of it.
But as much as that makes me angry, I don't think the punishment should be 9 years of forced labor in a prison camp. I was glad that scumbag Kaepernick's career fell apart. Whether it was the result of his antics or because he wasn't a very good player made no difference to me. I felt like it was karma and that was his punishment for being a fucking asshole.
People who disrespect the National Anthem or desecrate our flag make me sick. But you know what? A lot of people would say the same thing about us for the things we discuss on this website. Our type of "offensive" behavior may get someone else's blood boiling, but I'm pretty sure we don't belong in jail for it.
And there's another thing regarding her presumed "stupidity" for having cannabis oil at an airport. She's played overseas in China, as well as several seasons in Russia prior to this incident. She should have known better. But what if she actually didn't do it? Is it a stretch to think she could have been set up? I mean you've got her returning for her 3rd or 4th season I think, so she's obviously got some degree of celebrity status there. It's no secret when she'd be arriving at the airport, we've got a feckless moron for a President, and this happens like a week before the Ukraine invasion.
Perhaps Putin thought she'd be a good bargaining chip, knowing that his invasion would create a lot of controversy. And when he didn't end up using her for anything war-related, he decided to negotiate for this "merchant of death" guy instead.
I'm putting the odds that she actually had that stuff on her at 50/50. She's either a complete dumbass, or the Russians set her up. Both are equally believable. And the fact that she "confessed" and pleaded guilty means absolutely nothing. We're talking about one of the most corrupt countries on Earth. The prosecutors there aren't like NYC or LA.
Anyway, an American political prisoner is coming home and I'm okay with that.
This is not like the Bergdahl trade at all. That fuck's behavior directly led to Americans being killed and wounded. He should have been shot, or just abandoned and left with the Taliban.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes
She admitted in court that she did bring the vape pen with an illegal drug into Russia. She and her defense attorneys both openly stated that she brought it but it wasn't because she intended to break the law, she claims she just carelessly broke the law because she was in a hurry.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-basketb…
Do I think the sentence of hard labor was excessive for carrying a vape pen full of cannabis that was clearly just for personal use? Absolutely, but a lot of crimes carry excessive punishments in foreign countries but that doesn't mean that travelers don't have to obey them or face the punishment. Guess what, in Thailand you can be given the death penalty for drug possession. In parts of the middle east you can spend a long time in jail for kissing your girlfriend in public. In Singapore you can be publicly beaten with a bamboo cane for spray painting graffiti. Some foreigners from countries that don't have the death penalty would argue that it is excessive punishment to sentence a murderer to the death penalty in America.
Aww, thank you!
It’s going to be a long time before the story actually is told and my best estimate is that there is much more below the surface than above.
The fact is a midly famous American athlete was caught committing a crime and given the maximum punishment allowed by Russian law after she was convicted. That shouldn't surprise anyone. I can understand the US government wanting to negotiate for her release and being willing to give up something like unfreezing the accounts of a Russian oligarch that was seized after the Ukraine invasion, but releasing a criminal that sells weapons of war to our enemies and terrorists around the world is too much.
If she's a ho she can have two months pay and my left nut.
I agree with everything you said in the first paragraph, best behavior and all. But if YOU know that, and I know that, don't you think someone who has made like four trips there, and collectively lived there for about a year, would also know that?
You are making the assumption that she did this thing. I can't say for sure whether she did or she didn't. But what I do know to be an absolute FACT is that Russia is as corrupt as it gets - from the Kremlin right down to the lowest ranking police officer, or government clerk, or airport security worker. Nothing is even close to what it's like here. So again, I'll say the possibility that she was set up is AT LEAST equal to the possibility that she "broke their law".
"She admitted in court that she did bring the vape pen with an illegal drug into Russia. She and her defense attorneys both openly stated that she brought it but it wasn't because she intended to break the law, she claims she just carelessly broke the law because she was in a hurry."
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-basketb…
whodey can’t reasonable people disagree
WRONG
Whelan was never seriously on the table from Russia's side. He's an accused spy and in a totally different category from their perspective. The US tried repeatedly to include him in the exchange.
The choice Russia gave was Griner or nobody.
Reasonable people can disagree. I just don't think it is reasonable to say that it is just as likely that she was framed as it is she actually committed the crime when she has repeatedly admitted she did what she was accused of.
I can politely disagree with people thinking that getting her back was worth giving up an arms dealer. I can also politely disagree with people that say the US shouldn't have offered anything in exchange for her. I fall somewhere in the middle where I think the US was right to negotiate for her release but I think they went to far releasing a convicted arms dealer in exchange for her. Easing some sanctions, releasing assets that were seized from Russian oligarchs, releasing a Russian prisoner that was arrested for drug dealing, fraud, hacking or some other nonviolent crime would have been appropriate in exchange for her release. The only way they should've released an arms dealer would have been in exchange for multiple Americans or someone who was falsely detained but not for a celebrity who was convicted of a drug crime that they admitted to.
The US government should have treated this case just like the cases of any other American that is arrested overseas regardless of her status as a well known athlete. For most Americans that are arrested the government wouldn't have traded an arms dealer to secure their release.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/dea…
I'm glad she has been released however the price we paid was too high and before you say how can you put a price on her freedom remember their are others held captive that we were not willing to get.
What message does this send to everyperson in our jails on weed charges
What message does it send to every terrorist, we set the price for getting terrorist released from prison.
Sad day for America
This doesn't appear to be correct based on NBC's original reporting on the matter. See below video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7rnCC8g…
NBC retro-edited its reporting to make it seem like Whelan was never offered, but it appears the former marine who served the US was purposely deemed less important than WNBA star Griner. For anyone paying attention to what's been happening in modern America, it shouldn't be hard to figure out why.
Remember the 3 hikers detained by Iran back in 2009? There are about 200 million square miles of safe earth to hike on and those were plain dumb to hike in one of the handful of places they shouldn’t have. No sympathy. And I have no idea what their political affiliation was so that squashes that argument
Griner was just as dumb. No need to travel to Russia during a war and if you do, don’t carry drugs. She’s a dumb ass.
And like I said, don’t reward her. . She’ll come home, Oprah will pay her a billion dollars for an interview and she will make millions on a book deal.
Something I learned today and I double checked it on several sources to be sure, in Russia in 2019 the latest year figures are available the conviction rate was over 99% in 2018 less than .25% of all criminal cases ended with an aquittal that alone should give you some insight as to whether this was a fair trial
Do I think she got a harsher sentence because she is a well known American? Absolutely.
Should the US have negotiated to get her released? Yes, I would hope they would do that for any American sentenced to an excessive jail term for a relatively minor crime.
Should the US have been willing to release a major weapons trafficker that supplied weapons to groups dedicated to killing Americans to secure her release? No, there are any number of other bargaining chips they could have used instead that wouldn't have endangered American lives.
Do you think the US would have released this man to get some random person from this site released if they were sentenced to 9 years in jail for getting caught taking drugs into Russia? Would the US release El Chapo if a random PL gets arrested in Tijuana and sentenced to a decade in a Mexican jail for carrying drugs across the border? If not, what makes her more valuable than any other American that would get arrested the same way?
Whodey, do you understand the contradiction in your own words? If a corrupt trial will absolutely result in a conviction, they offer you less jail time to plead guilty, and you take it, apparently in your mind that means you did it, since you admitted it.
Am I correct in assuming that YOU would have gone to trial, knowing you'd be convicted and serve a longer sentence, because in your heart you knew you were innocent?
She didn't negotiate a lesser sentence, she just plead guilty and asked for leniency since she didn't mean to commit the crime and said is was just an accident because she was in a hurry when she packed.
Ok Mr. Principles. So let's say you can plead guilty and get 6 months, or go to trial, with the certainty that YOU WILL LOSE, and get 6 years. You're going to trial, right?
Tomorrow or no later than the next day, she needs to make a statement and admit America is not the terrible place she used to think it was. She needs to thank everyone who helped gain her freedom. She needs to apologize for her actions and remarks regarding the National Anthem. She needs renounce BLM
and admit they are a Marxist terrorist organization. And she needs to say she loves the US and is a much better place to live than Russia
"A program moderator referred to Whelan as a "spy," saying that Whelan is a hero to Americans. However, the moderator specified three things against Whelan regarding the U.S. winning his release.
His first problem is that he is white," the moderator said, according to a translation obtained by Fox News Digital. "His second problem is he is a man. His third problem: He is a heterosexual.
This is not something that can be forgiven today. It’s just a catastrophe. Yes, here Griner beats him in every aspect."
Got to love how they all stand around nodding their heads on these Russian TV shows, while they listen to each other's bullshit. Meanwhile their country is going down the toilet. I guess they need to keep up the pro-Russia spin on anything they can, and avoid showing the truth in Ukraine, to stave off an insurrection.
Sounds like your describing a round table discussion on abc, nbc, cnn or msnbc, except there's nothing to love because it's America going down the toilet while they spin their bias.
How Russian Media Uses Fox News to Make Its Case
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/15/techn…
“During her time at the penal colony, Griner's primary responsibility was carrying fabric, as she was too tall -- at 6-foot-8 -- to sit at worktables and her hands were too large to manage the job of sewing uniforms with other prisoners”
In future, all US citizens going to Russia or China (or their puppet states) should be advised it's at their own risk.