At a club I frequent, a PL was sitting next to the stage. The stage dancer approached him for a tip, which he declined to give. She told him not to sit by the stage if he wasn't going to tip (there were plenty of other seats). Turned out he was a (butt?) buddy of the manager or something, and he complained. So the dancers got a big talking to about how PLs could sit wherever they wanted to, and didn't have to tip. Maybe stage dancers should start wearing corsets with a screen in front and in back that shows ads. Cause that's how Youtube works, if you wanna watch for free, you have to see ads.
Strip clubs being bizarro-world, most inexperienced custies don't know the unwritten rules (unless w/ time they interact w/ enough dancers that those dancers w/ time fill them in) - this lack on not knowing the unwritten-rules is what also often makes custies easy-prey for the sharks.
The only remedy (not necessarily a solution) is to have small signs at the rail informing the PLs that if sitting stage-side proper etiquette is to o/w to sit in another part of the club and leave the stage for those that would like to tip - I think it's counterproductive for a dancer to chew-out a custy that likely has no clue; either don't go to his seat while on stage once you noticed he's not tipping; or politely clue-him-in as a PSA after the fact - these are remedies but not necessarily solutions.
I like to sit at the rail, and the price is tipping every dancer even the fuglies that I would never lap. The benefit is that in most clubs, dancers can’t or won’t pester rail birds for dances. I prefer to watch the line up before conversing or negotiating; it’s more likely to put me in the mood than being forced to turn down the fuglies (“why not?” “You’re fugly.”), or play the “not right now” game, etc. A little peace & quiet is worth a few stage tips.
That's not a custie with no clue. That's a somebody letting the uninformed know who he was. If she'd let it go he probably would've shrugged it off as a misunderstanding, but then she ran her mouth.
I'm as big a fan of topical conversation as the next guy, but this is one of those cases where "might makes right" if the op read the situation right. Sounds like the dancer tried to flex on someone she didn't recognize, and he had the management give her a lesson in how to stfu.
"Cause that's how Youtube works, if you wanna watch for free, you have to see ads."
How the world works is some people are connected and everybody else isn't. But it's all relative. Maybe that random guy eats shit everyplace else he goes, but when his manager buddy is on shift in that club on that day he's a somebody. Not saying it's right, but saying it is what it is.
There are clubs that are more fair with the dancers than that. I don't think it has to be like that, don't have to accept it "is what it is". Clubs cannot sustain themselves with sketchy, asshole customers. They are a problem for the customers who understand there's no free lunch, and dancers aren't streetwalkers whose self-respect has been broken by a pimp. They're not just a problem for dancers only.
I don't blame her for being upset. If you pony up to the tip rail, there is an expectation that you're going to tip. The only exception in my mind are those places that put the stage inside the bar and essentially make the entire bar a tip rail, but that doesn't sound like the situation here.
But I'll also say that any girl who is worried about giving "a free show" is worried about the wrong thing. IME it's usually the new girls and the burnouts who adopt this goofy belief. IME the savvier girls understand that what they are selling, or should be selling, is sex appeal and a fun vibe. That stage show is her sales pitch to every guy in the club who is considering spending more money at the tip rail and in the back.
Girls who dance defensively because they are worried about who's getting "a free show" are shooting themselves in the foot, at least with me and I'm sure with others as well.
"Clubs cannot sustain themselves with sketchy, asshole customers."
LOL. For a lot of clubs that literally is the key demographic keeping the doors open and the lights on. I'm not sure there's much else to say here...
That was good. I was just kicking myself for not taking the long way around to the bar so I could catch up with this woman in a skin tight pencil skirt and no panties. This doesn't make that bad decision any better, but at least I got a laugh.
One is entitled to their feelings (anger) but not their actions - dancers know they have a certain amount of power in the club including getting custies kicked out even if it's based on a lie (not saying it's like this in every club but def happens) - many dancers either get-off on brow-beating custies or just use certain custies/situations to take out their frustrations.
There's no rule that says a custy *has* to tip a dancer just bc he's looking at her (although he *should* if he's sitting at the rail); just like there's no rule a dancer has to give you a dance, or even contact during a dance (in clubs where contact is allowed and/or the norm).
IMO she was as wrong if not more wrong in this case bc of how she handled it; she saw an opportunity to go-off on a PL and unbeknownst to her she picked the wrong custy (if a custy is doing something wrong that's what staff/security is for).
I don't buy the "I'm on stage so you gotta tip me" BS - in certain clubs with tip-parades the custies are murdered with the constant-tip-parade where on a busy shift you can have half-a-dozen dancers approaching you during one song asking (and at times demanding) a tip else "you're looking for free".
The idea of the stage is we provide entertainment. Something that you don’t get to see at a regular bar, hot naked girls that will put it in your face. We are LITERALLY working on stage for tips.
There is zero justification for sitting at the stage without tipping.
As for the grown man tattling on the dancer, he can grow up.
As for the manager, why would you want to encourage someone to be in your business, where the goal is profit, cash money, and reward that person for spending zero…
Most infrequent custies go to clubs at night where there's usually a cover charge - I think many think they can sit anywhere once they've paid their cover and just enjoy the show like "everyone else" (in their minds) and they just got a better seat - a regular-bar AFAIK does not have a cover so I don't think it's an apples-to-apples comparison w.r.t. infrequent SCers that are used to mostly going to regular-bars - just like there are many custies that will sit in a SC VIP area w/o knowing and w/o paying until a staff person tells them.
I've been to plenty of clubs where the PLs sitting at the stage don't tip, or don't tip every dancer - the dancers will just pay individual attention to those tipping; and thus a newbie may not become aware of the rail rule-of-thumb.
At first I was thinking you were speaking from personal experience and describing yourself but then I remembered you've never actually been in a club, you just read about them.
Similarly there are custies that not knowing "how clubs work" think that if they paid a cover that it's up to them whether they want to buy a drink or not - again the avg person knows little of how strip-clubs operate and what the unwritten rules are and why at some clubs the doorman rattles off some basic rules such as "there's a two drink minimum"; etc; and many clubs don't.
Nothing says money to burn like a 3-month free trial ...If you sit at the stage, you tip. If tipping a dancer for whom you have zero attraction a couple of bucks is a party killer, maybe instead of strippers, balloons and an ice cream cake might make more financial sense...
Years ago I was in a local club and ran into the niece of my former next door neighbor dancing there, only her second night dancing. I watched when she was on stage, she was hot but inexperienced and there was a group of guys that sat there and didn't tip.
I walked up, gave her a tip and told those guys that if they want to sit at the stage they have to tip. A couple of them reached in their pockets and gave her a few bucks.
When she was done with her set she came by to thank me and I told her it's basically a rule that stage sitters are obligated to tip and if she ran into guys that weren't tipping to tell them so and not dance for them if they didn't.
Next time I was there she wasn't and I never saw her in another club so my guess is she gave it up because she wasn't really cut out for it.
I could swear that I read that in a fortune cookie once upon a time. 😉
But many clubs need all types of customers. Alcohol sales are the lifeblood of a solid majority of clubs out there. Regulars who some girls view as club furniture, guys who use the clubs like regular bar except with titties, those who never buy dances but always seem to be soliciting and many others may not spend much on the dancers, but they help keep the lights on by buying highly marked up alcohol and paying cover charges. Without them and anyone else you're putting in that "sketchy asshole" category, there would be far fewer clubs for girls to work in.
Most PLs at that club tip when they're up by the stage. If you're not a shitstain, you don't act like a shitstain because a shitstain gave you permission to do it.
I have rarely seen guys at the stage not tip. I tip at the stage because I get attention from the dancer. I tip all the dancers when I am at the stage it seems only right to me. Those that I really like I will tip more. It’s not that big a burden compared to all the other costs of being in a SC.
Lol. I couldn't resist. Acknowledging something like bad behavior exists is not the same thing as endorsing it. Air Jordan can take things personally in public. The rest of us should just settle down and enjoy the hobby.
"... Most PLs at that club tip when they're up by the stage ..."
That's deceiving; I assume on purpose - being "up by the stage" is not the same as sitting at the stage for song-sets on-end - if a guy "goes up to the stage" he likely is going there for the reason of tipping; that is different than sitting at the stage/rail.
Similarly saying that "guys at the stage tip" - that is different than saying every guy tips every dancer - in general most custies are gonna tip/spend-$$$ on certain girls and not necessarily every girl.
At the end of the day; if this was some kinda "rule" then the club/staff would not allow non-tippers (that don't tip *every* dancer) to sit at the rail just like they don't let people sit in VIP that haven't paid for the table.
*boss' friend/secret shopper. (they don't have to)
*noob/broke/retarded (doesn't know better)
*waiting for nude pussy (tips for advertised stage show only)
*spite/contempt (shut up and dance bitch/u robbed me last time/a cunt that looks like u robbed me last time/i like pissing-off strippers and throwing them off their game and watching them storm off and hopefully cry and go home and rant like a psychopath to reddit cuz the next guy made a card house out of dollars instead of fanning them out nicely for me and onwergy...)
by the way, these are usually the same type of sick fucks that don't observe the '2-chairs/tables between' rule.
===> "If tipping a dancer for whom you have zero attraction a couple of bucks is a party killer, maybe instead of strippers, balloons and an ice cream cake might make more financial sense..."
IMHO this went a bit too far. I don't disagree about tipping when sitting at the rail, but on the broader topic of charity tipping I just won't do it. It's not my job to subsidize or encourage girls who probably shouldn't take their clothes off for a living in the first place to do so anyway.
I'll also add that while that approach may only have a modest impact on your budget in your favorite MA or RI clubs, in some clubbing areas tipping every girl will eat you alive. In Queens and NJ some of the clubs put their stages inside the bars and the girls do frequent tip walks - it's not uncommon for several girls to line up for tips from each guy sitting at the bar multiple times during a stage set. In WI clubs the girls circulate around the club after their stage sets soliciting tips and it's not uncommon for girls who never even danced to pretend that they did and solicit tips.
In places like those, the term "cash burn rate" takes on real meaning and the only way to control it is to be selective in who you tip.
^ My take on the tip walk is simple, if I didn’t see her on the stage during the previous set, I just ignore her request, and if I see the same girl trying to get a double or triple dip I’ll call it to the attention of the floor manager, most of the clubs I hit have done away with that canard, but there’s always some dancer that tries to get something that’s unearned.
In regards to watching ads, isn’t the whole stage show kind of an ad for her brand of lap dance or other service offered? I know I treat it that way, although I will always tip if I’m at the rail.
If a girl’s so fugly that I feel I must withhold a tip, I’ll back off the stage seat & go to the head or something. But cmon my $2 tip (or stage tips in general) isn’t going to convince to work fast food instead. Why fuglies strip is a topic for another day, but it’s not the money they make. Although different guys like different things, so maybe they find the lids for their pots, IDK and who cares. Tipping when sitting at stage is basic etiquette.
===> "Rick - it's not pity money. I look at it as paying rent. When I rented, I expected to pay, even if I was away for 3 weeks lol."
Ski, I paid my "rent" to the club the moment I handed over my cover charge and bought that first drink. I'm no more obligated to pay every girl in the club than I am to buy something from every vendor at a flea market. If she wants to sell to me, she'd better have something that I want to buy.
I'm not remotely stingy and always walk into the club with a wad of cash. But even so, neither is my budget limitless and I'm sure the same can be said for most guys. So when a club's operations are set up to pressure guys into ample charity tipping (like in the examples noted above), it reduces the pool of cash available for the stronger talent.
Not my scene. I don't believe that either I or, by extension, the stronger talent, should be forced to subsidize the weaker girls. I already do my charitable giving elsewhere - the club is where I go to pay to enjoy my interactions with strippers.
"So when a club's operations are set up to pressure guys into ample charity tipping...it reduces the pool of cash available for the stronger talent."
Those of us with experience in the clubs that do the tip walk everywhere like a stripper crusade will get that point of view. Not everyone has that experience, so I'm not going to ask people to fully appreciate a situation they haven't seen. But an extra $20 to $40 dollars an hour (if you do something simple like $1 a song) is what that translates to if there's a DJ involved. For one dancer at a time on one stage. If it's a jukebox and dancers can pick their own music the songs will run longer and lower the burn.
Getting back on topic, this thread started out as a gripe session for a very specific situation at the tip rail. Then it got into what's the right way to tip because it's a discussion forum so why not? If I'm at the stage I'm there to tip, even if I'm just saying hi or bye, and if a dancer I'm not interested in is going up I'll still drop a dollar or whatever as I walk away. But what another guy chooses to do is between him and the club.
===> "But an extra $20 to $40 dollars an hour (if you do something simple like $1 a song) is what that translates to if there's a DJ involved. For one dancer at a time on one stage."
Try when it's 3-6 girls dancing at one time on one large stage, like in some of the Queens and Jersey clubs, and they all do two tip walks during their stage set. If you aren't selective it's easy to burn through $100 an hour just on stage tips without even remembering where it went.
But even if it's close to $30 or $40 per hour in a place like Milwaukee, it adds up over the course of a night, especially when you factor in the occasional larger tip for a girl who catches your eye and the bar tab for yourself and at least one dancer. During my last visit to Heartbreakers in West Allis, right before COVID hit, it wasn't too bad. The club was slow and they were only running one stage. But back when they were running 4 stages at a time and the club was crowded the tip parade was nearly constant.
Not standing up for yourself is doormat behavior, I’m not telling anyone to sit by the tip rail and not tip, but the tip walk if you can’t stand up to a little girl in her underwear you got problems that can’t be fixed by me.
I don't know what her tone was when she asked him to move. In any case, can't survive as a stripper if you can't activate your bitch mode sometimes. That jackass was as rude as stripper who sits with you no matter how much you make it clear you're not interested.
If I ended up in a club like that, and by some magic there was a ton of money to be made, so I stayed working there, I think I would give the fellas the most boring two song stage sets of their life. 😎😎😎😎😎
The reason there are empty seats at the tip rail is often because most customers who don't want to tip don't sit there since they know there is an expectation that anyone sitting there should tip. If it became the norm that a customer can sit there without tipping, the stage would often be surrounded by non-tipping customers. This would drop stripper income.
Some customers, like myself, also use their stage appearance to ask for lap dances and all the stage seats being taken by non-tipping customers makes that a little more difficult. In a situation like that I sometimes have to try to chase them down after they get off stage and are headed back to the dressing room since I couldn't get to them on stage. If you are a strip club manager, you need to be thinking of the best ways to make it easy to spend money in your club. You need to make sure the girls are accessible to the spending customers and the spending customers are not blocked by the non-spending customers.
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The only remedy (not necessarily a solution) is to have small signs at the rail informing the PLs that if sitting stage-side proper etiquette is to o/w to sit in another part of the club and leave the stage for those that would like to tip - I think it's counterproductive for a dancer to chew-out a custy that likely has no clue; either don't go to his seat while on stage once you noticed he's not tipping; or politely clue-him-in as a PSA after the fact - these are remedies but not necessarily solutions.
I'm as big a fan of topical conversation as the next guy, but this is one of those cases where "might makes right" if the op read the situation right. Sounds like the dancer tried to flex on someone she didn't recognize, and he had the management give her a lesson in how to stfu.
"Cause that's how Youtube works, if you wanna watch for free, you have to see ads."
How the world works is some people are connected and everybody else isn't. But it's all relative. Maybe that random guy eats shit everyplace else he goes, but when his manager buddy is on shift in that club on that day he's a somebody. Not saying it's right, but saying it is what it is.
But I'll also say that any girl who is worried about giving "a free show" is worried about the wrong thing. IME it's usually the new girls and the burnouts who adopt this goofy belief. IME the savvier girls understand that what they are selling, or should be selling, is sex appeal and a fun vibe. That stage show is her sales pitch to every guy in the club who is considering spending more money at the tip rail and in the back.
Girls who dance defensively because they are worried about who's getting "a free show" are shooting themselves in the foot, at least with me and I'm sure with others as well.
LOL. For a lot of clubs that literally is the key demographic keeping the doors open and the lights on. I'm not sure there's much else to say here...
That was good. I was just kicking myself for not taking the long way around to the bar so I could catch up with this woman in a skin tight pencil skirt and no panties. This doesn't make that bad decision any better, but at least I got a laugh.
There's no rule that says a custy *has* to tip a dancer just bc he's looking at her (although he *should* if he's sitting at the rail); just like there's no rule a dancer has to give you a dance, or even contact during a dance (in clubs where contact is allowed and/or the norm).
IMO she was as wrong if not more wrong in this case bc of how she handled it; she saw an opportunity to go-off on a PL and unbeknownst to her she picked the wrong custy (if a custy is doing something wrong that's what staff/security is for).
I don't buy the "I'm on stage so you gotta tip me" BS - in certain clubs with tip-parades the custies are murdered with the constant-tip-parade where on a busy shift you can have half-a-dozen dancers approaching you during one song asking (and at times demanding) a tip else "you're looking for free".
There is zero justification for sitting at the stage without tipping.
As for the grown man tattling on the dancer, he can grow up.
As for the manager, why would you want to encourage someone to be in your business, where the goal is profit, cash money, and reward that person for spending zero…
SJG
At first I was thinking you were speaking from personal experience and describing yourself but then I remembered you've never actually been in a club, you just read about them.
I walked up, gave her a tip and told those guys that if they want to sit at the stage they have to tip. A couple of them reached in their pockets and gave her a few bucks.
When she was done with her set she came by to thank me and I told her it's basically a rule that stage sitters are obligated to tip and if she ran into guys that weren't tipping to tell them so and not dance for them if they didn't.
Next time I was there she wasn't and I never saw her in another club so my guess is she gave it up because she wasn't really cut out for it.
I could swear that I read that in a fortune cookie once upon a time. 😉
But many clubs need all types of customers. Alcohol sales are the lifeblood of a solid majority of clubs out there. Regulars who some girls view as club furniture, guys who use the clubs like regular bar except with titties, those who never buy dances but always seem to be soliciting and many others may not spend much on the dancers, but they help keep the lights on by buying highly marked up alcohol and paying cover charges. Without them and anyone else you're putting in that "sketchy asshole" category, there would be far fewer clubs for girls to work in.
How many shits could a shitstain shit if it could shit would shit shit?
That's deceiving; I assume on purpose - being "up by the stage" is not the same as sitting at the stage for song-sets on-end - if a guy "goes up to the stage" he likely is going there for the reason of tipping; that is different than sitting at the stage/rail.
Similarly saying that "guys at the stage tip" - that is different than saying every guy tips every dancer - in general most custies are gonna tip/spend-$$$ on certain girls and not necessarily every girl.
At the end of the day; if this was some kinda "rule" then the club/staff would not allow non-tippers (that don't tip *every* dancer) to sit at the rail just like they don't let people sit in VIP that haven't paid for the table.
*boss' friend/secret shopper. (they don't have to)
*noob/broke/retarded (doesn't know better)
*waiting for nude pussy (tips for advertised stage show only)
*spite/contempt (shut up and dance bitch/u robbed me last time/a cunt that looks like u robbed me last time/i like pissing-off strippers and throwing them off their game and watching them storm off and hopefully cry and go home and rant like a psychopath to reddit cuz the next guy made a card house out of dollars instead of fanning them out nicely for me and onwergy...)
by the way, these are usually the same type of sick fucks that don't observe the '2-chairs/tables between' rule.
IMHO this went a bit too far. I don't disagree about tipping when sitting at the rail, but on the broader topic of charity tipping I just won't do it. It's not my job to subsidize or encourage girls who probably shouldn't take their clothes off for a living in the first place to do so anyway.
I'll also add that while that approach may only have a modest impact on your budget in your favorite MA or RI clubs, in some clubbing areas tipping every girl will eat you alive. In Queens and NJ some of the clubs put their stages inside the bars and the girls do frequent tip walks - it's not uncommon for several girls to line up for tips from each guy sitting at the bar multiple times during a stage set. In WI clubs the girls circulate around the club after their stage sets soliciting tips and it's not uncommon for girls who never even danced to pretend that they did and solicit tips.
In places like those, the term "cash burn rate" takes on real meaning and the only way to control it is to be selective in who you tip.
Ski, I paid my "rent" to the club the moment I handed over my cover charge and bought that first drink. I'm no more obligated to pay every girl in the club than I am to buy something from every vendor at a flea market. If she wants to sell to me, she'd better have something that I want to buy.
I'm not remotely stingy and always walk into the club with a wad of cash. But even so, neither is my budget limitless and I'm sure the same can be said for most guys. So when a club's operations are set up to pressure guys into ample charity tipping (like in the examples noted above), it reduces the pool of cash available for the stronger talent.
Not my scene. I don't believe that either I or, by extension, the stronger talent, should be forced to subsidize the weaker girls. I already do my charitable giving elsewhere - the club is where I go to pay to enjoy my interactions with strippers.
Those of us with experience in the clubs that do the tip walk everywhere like a stripper crusade will get that point of view. Not everyone has that experience, so I'm not going to ask people to fully appreciate a situation they haven't seen. But an extra $20 to $40 dollars an hour (if you do something simple like $1 a song) is what that translates to if there's a DJ involved. For one dancer at a time on one stage. If it's a jukebox and dancers can pick their own music the songs will run longer and lower the burn.
Getting back on topic, this thread started out as a gripe session for a very specific situation at the tip rail. Then it got into what's the right way to tip because it's a discussion forum so why not? If I'm at the stage I'm there to tip, even if I'm just saying hi or bye, and if a dancer I'm not interested in is going up I'll still drop a dollar or whatever as I walk away. But what another guy chooses to do is between him and the club.
Try when it's 3-6 girls dancing at one time on one large stage, like in some of the Queens and Jersey clubs, and they all do two tip walks during their stage set. If you aren't selective it's easy to burn through $100 an hour just on stage tips without even remembering where it went.
But even if it's close to $30 or $40 per hour in a place like Milwaukee, it adds up over the course of a night, especially when you factor in the occasional larger tip for a girl who catches your eye and the bar tab for yourself and at least one dancer. During my last visit to Heartbreakers in West Allis, right before COVID hit, it wasn't too bad. The club was slow and they were only running one stage. But back when they were running 4 stages at a time and the club was crowded the tip parade was nearly constant.
I know of two clubs like that, and both had mega gawd awful customer clientele.
Some customers, like myself, also use their stage appearance to ask for lap dances and all the stage seats being taken by non-tipping customers makes that a little more difficult. In a situation like that I sometimes have to try to chase them down after they get off stage and are headed back to the dressing room since I couldn't get to them on stage. If you are a strip club manager, you need to be thinking of the best ways to make it easy to spend money in your club. You need to make sure the girls are accessible to the spending customers and the spending customers are not blocked by the non-spending customers.
rob was wronger.
she verbally assaulted/abused a customer (reddit vernacular) and made the club look bad.
fine the bitch and send her home.
management should offer the guy a free VIP with the gagged hottie of his choice.