As I predicted years ago when we first started talking about the new CA laws, this is the shit that starts when one must run a club using the employer/employee model.
By all accounts I've read, this place is already quite tame by strip club standards, which is likely what drew the burnouts and other uptight girls there to begin with. If we have to sterilize clubs to such an extent that no girl ever feels uncomfortable when dealing with the guys then most clubs would likely cease to exist.
It is a sexually oriented business. There is no way to keep dancers 100% free from unwanted physical or verbal interactions without some type of physical barrier, like a glass wall. It may take some years and a handful of lawsuits, but eventually CA clubs are going to be forced to do something drastic like this, which will effectively kill the industry in that state.
Rick you mean you don't like dancers with wmployee rights taking pride in their work and being assertive and not feeling like they have to resort to fucking tricks.
Didn’t realize they were still at it and reaching out to other areas like r/antiwork.
There are still dancers working over there I believe. I looked at their Facebook page, where they have images of some of the dancers working. The most recent post was from a couple of days ago.
===> "Rick you mean you don't like dancers with wmployee rights taking pride in their work and being assertive and not feeling like they have to resort to fucking tricks."
How does it benefit anyone if CA strip clubs are forced to become so anti-septic and controlled that nobody wants to go to them?
"There is no way to keep dancers 100% free from unwanted physical or verbal interactions without some type of physical barrier, like a glass wall."
Duh, could you just ban customers who behave like shitstains? Like any other retail business run by people who don't have shit for brains?
Sexual arousal doesn't make all men act like fuckwads. It only makes fuckwads to act like fuckwads.
@rd as much as I can be sure (since you always release the weasel word kraken when asked for specifics), you claim you rarely have to talk dancers into doing OTC/extras. So, would it really be so bad if the rule was you had to wait for it to be offered, rather than be the one to bring it up?
===> "Duh, could you just ban customers who behave like shitstains? Like any other retail business run by people who don't have shit for brains?"
Strip clubs aren't any other retail business. When you mix booze with nudity and girls running various hustles for money, you're going to have a certain % who behave poorly, at least at times. If you ban every guy who offends or hurts some girl's feelings you're going to have a pretty empty club before too long.
Also again, by all reports security was already pretty tight in this place. Like sit on your hands during a dance tight.
But even if a club could afford to be utterly ban happy, throwing every guy out who did or said anything that a dancer found problematic, that's not the same as prevention. It's impossible to utterly prevent these occurrences in a normal strip club environment, yet that won't stop burned out strippers from suing under employee protection statutes when they are looking for those final retirement checks. Mark my words, those lawsuits are coming - this crap is just the tip of the iceberg.
Rules can easily be enforced in a club. But namely a customer has to realize that spending money on dancer or her company doesn't entitke you to groping or Nything sexual or forcer her to tolerate your antisocial behavior.
Star Garden sounds like a good place and the dancers are being kind of dramatic.
The club probably has a good customer base because there is NO ENTRANCE FEE all night long. Good for the dancers; a lot of customers.
No doubt a few undesirables may slip in, but the club also has an armed security guard who frequently calls the police. Trouble is handled by the police. And the dancers have a problem with this?
Every dancer knows or should know that they can have an escort to their car who waits until they leave safely and are not being followed.
The main problem is that the club violates the federal fair labor standards act. There's no tipout but the club wants half their earnings. And if they can't come up with $200 a night they get fired. And girls getting fired for calling security on customers. It's a shitty work environment.
It's wrongful termination. They have a great suit coz it's all so well documented and they're sticking together.
As far as dancers being employees or not, I'm dubious that the government should force this approach on all clubs. If the gubment didn't have an obstructionist attitude about clubs opening, even in inconspicuous places like warehouse districts, they'red be competition that would benefit both dancers and PLs. The best business models would win, and clubs that could keep the best dancers happy would be the likely winners.
Being a non-shitstain is not that complicated. If somebody tells you to go away, you go away. You don't say things that a reasonable person might see as hostile/threatening. You keep in mind that a lap dance club is about you paying lots of money to touch women who you could not otherwise touch. You don't slap or restrain a stripper unless she's made it crystal clear that's OK (within her particular limits).
If you feel this is unreasonable because you drink while at a strip club, grown ass man fail, stay tf home. And also never drive, since you'll also think it too unreasonable that you should not drive when you're too drunk.
^ Ilb, either you're trolling or your reading comprehension sucks. Probably both. When did I ever put <u>myself</u> in some abusive category? My point was that a strip club is going to attract a higher % of bad apples and others on their worst behavior. Hence completely shielding employee dancers from bad acts is impossible without taking extraordinary measures that would likely kill the clubs.
California dancers fought to be employees for over 10 years. There is nothing dubious about labor rights.
It doesn't matter what percentage of customers are acting inappropriately. Dancers should feel safe at work and these men called out and told to stop it or leave
Sorry rd I won't be your honey, especially not for what you pay.
It's just pointless trying to have a productive argument with weasels like you. You claim you're not a bad apple, but you don't +1 when I say most of the problem is solved by clubs being serious about banning known bad apples.
"As far as dancers being employees or not, I'm dubious that the government should force this approach on all clubs."
It's been terrible for both the girls and customers. You don't have to take anyone's word for it, see what they say about what a catastrophe the employee transition was on stripper forums, and why so many now realize they want to remain ICs.
Girls get a weekly check just for showing up and their house fees and tip outs paid. Most make like $19 and hour in la.
Subraman stop projecting your right wing bs on stripper hoes.
Most of the complaints came from girls too dumb to understand what taxes are and don't get that house fees and tipouts taken out are more convenient than paying out of pocket every night.
But saying dancers are better off without legal employee protections shows what a fucking idiot you are.
I'm not wing -- and I am reflecting what actual strippers feel, not woke delusion. It was terrible for strippers like it was for customers. Again, ask actual strippers if you disagree, they are and always were against it as a group, and with hindsight of the impact, and quadruply against it.
I realize the futility with icey, but for those non-trolls who are curious as to what happened in SF:
- First, realize Dejavu wanted this change, and embraced it even before the law took hold. Just keep in your mind why the evil empire might choose this. They moved to employee-only before the law took hold.
- The girls reacted to the new terms by many of them choosing to take the opportunity to leave the business or work elsewhere. There was a flood of CA girls into Vegas clubs that was obvious (to all the Vegas girls and any actual customers). We lost a lot of local talent here.
- I don't remember the exact structure offhand, I do have it somewhere, but from memory, it was something like: the first $200 the girls makes goes 100% to the club ($120 of this is eventually paid back to the girl as salary, with taxes taken out, so basically the first money the girl makes is to cover her own salary), next $200 or so the club takes 50%, after that the club cut goes down again. In short, the girls knew they were now paying their own salary, but subject to stricter rules and scheduling, etc., with the club overall taking a bigger cut.
- for customers, what they experienced is a ton of girls leaving the biz, and shift sizes cut way down -- now that the girls had a guaranteed salary, the clubs were far more conservative about how many girls per shift, girls couldn't randomly add on, etc. Just far fewer choices
I come on here saying what dancers actually say. Dont believe me -- go on a stripper forum and ask them the same thing about IC vs employees. I've not seen anything but strong anti-employee, pro-IC sentiments. The fact is, strippers -- not internet trolls who can't figure out if they're fake pimps or fake woke simps -- are the ones who know what works best for them. They speak for themselves often. The girls are smart enough to know that that paltry $16.32 (or whatever it is now) per hour is not in addition to their earnings -- the club takes MORE THAN THAT from them, then pays them back some of it with taxes taken out, and their overall takehome is lower. But men who know better, like you, are going to "fix" things for them anyway lol
Anyway, your inability to understand that the $19 an hour isn't free and in addition to what they used to make themselves means no reason to waste more time with you. Butut information for the rest of tuscl who might have missed what happened in CA -- girls leaving the biz in droves, employment structures that pay a pittance hourly but leave the girls with even less takehome than before, and recognition of this on stripper forums/sub. This has not been good for the strippers.
@Subraman
You’re just wasting your breath, if you came here with the same post that Iceefag made, the response would be what you just wrote, face reality here Iceefag has no interest in carrying on anything resembling a conversation he just comes on here to bash everybody cause he/she’s a fuckn idiot troll.
Right, I have no illusions about educating icey, he doesn't even realize that the strippers are paying their own minimum wage, to their detriment. But for anyone else curious about what employee status meant in CA, this is what happened in SF
If your hot that IC thing is one of the best deals going. What other job can walk out with hundreds cash that night, unskilled and quite frankly if you are hot (although one could argue that is a skill, the rarest of them all, fair enough), you really don't have too too much, we'll find you and pay you, trust me.
If a club is ripping dancers off blame the club. Not laws that protect qnd benefit dancers. Those clubs need to be called out sued etc. And many times they are.
And yes they get paid a wage plus tips plus vip plus dance money.
And yeah house fees etc are deducted from their hourly wage. Regardless they still earn more.
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By all accounts I've read, this place is already quite tame by strip club standards, which is likely what drew the burnouts and other uptight girls there to begin with. If we have to sterilize clubs to such an extent that no girl ever feels uncomfortable when dealing with the guys then most clubs would likely cease to exist.
It is a sexually oriented business. There is no way to keep dancers 100% free from unwanted physical or verbal interactions without some type of physical barrier, like a glass wall. It may take some years and a handful of lawsuits, but eventually CA clubs are going to be forced to do something drastic like this, which will effectively kill the industry in that state.
What a shit show.
https://tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=7915…
Didn’t realize they were still at it and reaching out to other areas like r/antiwork.
There are still dancers working over there I believe. I looked at their Facebook page, where they have images of some of the dancers working. The most recent post was from a couple of days ago.
How does it benefit anyone if CA strip clubs are forced to become so anti-septic and controlled that nobody wants to go to them?
Duh, could you just ban customers who behave like shitstains? Like any other retail business run by people who don't have shit for brains?
Sexual arousal doesn't make all men act like fuckwads. It only makes fuckwads to act like fuckwads.
@rd as much as I can be sure (since you always release the weasel word kraken when asked for specifics), you claim you rarely have to talk dancers into doing OTC/extras. So, would it really be so bad if the rule was you had to wait for it to be offered, rather than be the one to bring it up?
Strip clubs aren't any other retail business. When you mix booze with nudity and girls running various hustles for money, you're going to have a certain % who behave poorly, at least at times. If you ban every guy who offends or hurts some girl's feelings you're going to have a pretty empty club before too long.
Also again, by all reports security was already pretty tight in this place. Like sit on your hands during a dance tight.
But even if a club could afford to be utterly ban happy, throwing every guy out who did or said anything that a dancer found problematic, that's not the same as prevention. It's impossible to utterly prevent these occurrences in a normal strip club environment, yet that won't stop burned out strippers from suing under employee protection statutes when they are looking for those final retirement checks. Mark my words, those lawsuits are coming - this crap is just the tip of the iceberg.
So people should pay dancers just to look at them? Thats what clubs entrance fee is for
The club probably has a good customer base because there is NO ENTRANCE FEE all night long. Good for the dancers; a lot of customers.
No doubt a few undesirables may slip in, but the club also has an armed security guard who frequently calls the police. Trouble is handled by the police. And the dancers have a problem with this?
Every dancer knows or should know that they can have an escort to their car who waits until they leave safely and are not being followed.
It's wrongful termination. They have a great suit coz it's all so well documented and they're sticking together.
Being a non-shitstain is not that complicated. If somebody tells you to go away, you go away. You don't say things that a reasonable person might see as hostile/threatening. You keep in mind that a lap dance club is about you paying lots of money to touch women who you could not otherwise touch. You don't slap or restrain a stripper unless she's made it crystal clear that's OK (within her particular limits).
If you feel this is unreasonable because you drink while at a strip club, grown ass man fail, stay tf home. And also never drive, since you'll also think it too unreasonable that you should not drive when you're too drunk.
Read more slowly if you need to next time honey.
It doesn't matter what percentage of customers are acting inappropriately. Dancers should feel safe at work and these men called out and told to stop it or leave
It's just pointless trying to have a productive argument with weasels like you. You claim you're not a bad apple, but you don't +1 when I say most of the problem is solved by clubs being serious about banning known bad apples.
It's been terrible for both the girls and customers. You don't have to take anyone's word for it, see what they say about what a catastrophe the employee transition was on stripper forums, and why so many now realize they want to remain ICs.
Subraman stop projecting your right wing bs on stripper hoes.
Most of the complaints came from girls too dumb to understand what taxes are and don't get that house fees and tipouts taken out are more convenient than paying out of pocket every night.
But saying dancers are better off without legal employee protections shows what a fucking idiot you are.
I realize the futility with icey, but for those non-trolls who are curious as to what happened in SF:
- First, realize Dejavu wanted this change, and embraced it even before the law took hold. Just keep in your mind why the evil empire might choose this. They moved to employee-only before the law took hold.
- The girls reacted to the new terms by many of them choosing to take the opportunity to leave the business or work elsewhere. There was a flood of CA girls into Vegas clubs that was obvious (to all the Vegas girls and any actual customers). We lost a lot of local talent here.
- I don't remember the exact structure offhand, I do have it somewhere, but from memory, it was something like: the first $200 the girls makes goes 100% to the club ($120 of this is eventually paid back to the girl as salary, with taxes taken out, so basically the first money the girl makes is to cover her own salary), next $200 or so the club takes 50%, after that the club cut goes down again. In short, the girls knew they were now paying their own salary, but subject to stricter rules and scheduling, etc., with the club overall taking a bigger cut.
- Shift sizes cut down.
- For customers, onc
Then you come on here saying dancers hate $19 an hour and labor law protections.
And clubs work with girls to set schedules. Like regular employees.
Anyway, your inability to understand that the $19 an hour isn't free and in addition to what they used to make themselves means no reason to waste more time with you. Butut information for the rest of tuscl who might have missed what happened in CA -- girls leaving the biz in droves, employment structures that pay a pittance hourly but leave the girls with even less takehome than before, and recognition of this on stripper forums/sub. This has not been good for the strippers.
You’re just wasting your breath, if you came here with the same post that Iceefag made, the response would be what you just wrote, face reality here Iceefag has no interest in carrying on anything resembling a conversation he just comes on here to bash everybody cause he/she’s a fuckn idiot troll.
Even Iceefags imaginary friends deny knowing him
LULZ
And yes they get paid a wage plus tips plus vip plus dance money.
And yeah house fees etc are deducted from their hourly wage. Regardless they still earn more.