Why extras not escorts?
ilbbaicnl
Keep it in my pants when I do OTC. If I were a stripper it would stand for I like big bucks and I can not lie.
In more than a dozen years of generally weekly PLing, I've only done serious extras with 2 dancers. I've never lived near an extras hotspot like Detroit or Miami. In both cases, I became a frequent regular, it lasted many months, they ended up with a lot of hostility towards me, but wouldn't say why. I've been offered extras by other dancers, but I didn't find them attractive.
On the other hand, there are many escorts I remember very fondly, zero drama or downside. Also lots of ROBs, and many many more I simply didn't click with. But, it seems to me I'd waste much more time and money looking for good experiences with extras strippers rather than escorts. I'd be interested to hear why many here seem to prefer extras strippers, and rarely if ever see escorts.
On the other hand, there are many escorts I remember very fondly, zero drama or downside. Also lots of ROBs, and many many more I simply didn't click with. But, it seems to me I'd waste much more time and money looking for good experiences with extras strippers rather than escorts. I'd be interested to hear why many here seem to prefer extras strippers, and rarely if ever see escorts.
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OTOH escorts can...
1. ...be a robbery setup
2. ...be a police sting (a possibility in clubs, but lower)
3. ...be a blackmail scheme (just happened to a buddy)
4. ...not deliver services asked (a possibility with ITC extras but you can de-risk per above)
5. ...not look like her photos
6. ...live in a boner-killing pigsty
The remedy then is the Private Party Model, plus seeing your women outside.
SJG
Okay, let's dive into OTC a bit:
1. Invite her OTC and negotiate the price. No references needed. You might be able to take her out right after her shift if you're feeling it, or make an escort-style appointment
2. Now comes the most exciting (in a bad way) part of OTC: she shows up. Or maybe she doesn't. Or maybe she's late. And she may or may not text you to let you know she'll be late, or absent.
3. She shows up! And here's a few things you're guaranteed: She's fucking gorgeous. You know this, because you saw her in the club already, that's why you invited her OTC (duh!). You like her personality. She turns you on like crazy. Since that last time you met her, and realized you were crazy horny for her, she's been on your mind, and you're aching for her -- and now, she's here (unless she isn't -- see step 2). The sex will be insane.
4. Optional: you might have met her early, to grab dinner, go drinking, maybe go strip clubbing together. You've got to watch her for hours, gotten buzzed together, you are now crazy horny... and only now, will you go back to the hotel to fuck it off.
5. Have sex. O. M. G. And with a drunk stripper, the sky is the limit. We might have negotiated sex, but we may well be taking a trip around the world. If you're picking up what I'm laying down. And I think you are. On top of that, if such things matter to you, you know that she has NOT blown and fucked 4 other guys before you today. Noice.
6. Optional: Hang out more together. I've gone back out drinking with my OTC stripper. A number of times, the stripper has chosen to just stay in the hotel room with me overnight. We cuddle all night (I shoot to be the little spoon, but will settle for the big spoon), then maybe have sex again in the morning.
Total cost: $250, +drinks&food, +hotel room $140 or hot tubs $40, for anywhere from 3 hours to overnight.
Let's go back to those costs again. If the escort had stayed with me for 3 hours, she would have charged me for the extra 90 minutes. If she'd stayed overnight, it would've cost me closer to $1500-$2000. Anything off-menu might have cost more.
So, why OTC?
- My stripper is waaay hotter, I already know she matches my physical ideals
- I'm crazy about her psychologically, sexually, even before our first OTC
- She's unprofessional ... which means spending hours and even overnights without charging more. I can party with a girl I adore for hours and hours, and if she's feeling it, can do far more than we agreed to
In short, for a hotter girl, who turns me on more, the price is as much as 1/2 to 1/10th as I'd pay an escort for a comparable experience. The only advantage of an escort is: she will almost certainly show up, on time, and let you know if for some reason she's late or needs to cancel. Otherwise, escort will make you pay for every minute you're together (multi-hour sessions are unaffordable for the rare hot ones, much less overnights)
So there you go. If you're into escorts, more power to you. Just want to stick up for strippers, strip clubs, and OTC!
SJG
Nice spice is just screwing with you with that rong account its funny she supposedly has more accounts than juice, just a joke
Anyway, for me it comes down to being able to see and talk to the girls first. Also I don’t have to deal with any “verification” BS or leaving a digital trail
If that’s your MO, you are leaving a lot of good times on the table. In my experience, unless it’s an extras factory type club, they won’t offer. You have to ask.
“It's risky to let a dancer know you want something she's not OK with doing. Dancers tend to assume that all customers are going to get pushy or surly if they're not getting everything they want.”
What makes you think this if you always wait for an offer? In my experience this is not true all. Just don’t be pushy or surly and you’ll be ok. Be respectful and more than likely there will be no problems. I’ve been turned down for extras many times but have had the girl come up and offer dances on a later visit, and I usually accept. If I asked about extras, it means I find them attractive and have already gotten dances. By the way, sometimes they change their mind and a no might become yes on a later visit. Opposite can happen too.
Both my experiences with being an OTC/extras regular came to abrupt ends, for reasons unknown to me. With the first, I would bet the farm she wasn't going for pity money. With the second, that was probably at least a part of it. They both had really horrible childhoods. I wanted to be easy $ for them with zero emotional burden. Feel like a vulture cause it looks like I failed.
Yes, you generally have to let people look out for their own best interests. But, what if they've been through really bad shit, and maybe can't make good judgments about their best interests?
I will only pick up an escort outside of the USA because in some other counties there are better raviews because it’s widely accepted.
In the US the best option for me is strippers ITC or OTC just as nicespice mentioned. Most of the other things I mentioned above will lead to problems sometime really quick. Not that messing with strippers has its share of problem, just less of them IME.
I will play along and answer your question:
Q: Why extras not escorts?
A: why not both, because each has its benefits, and her time and place.
Like you I have experienced both, but unlike you I have had good experiences with both.
I believe one of the reasons I have been “lucky” with strippers, is because I try dealings with nice girls. Girls that my gut feeling/instinct tells me they are going to be OK with the relationship and don’t have too many issues/problems.
Same with escorts, I listen to my spider 🕷 sense when setting up the appointment.
In both cases it helps if you play the part of a mature, professional businessman of god upbringing, think Richard Gere in Pretty Woman.
What has worked for me, for good OTC, is to build a trusting relationship with a girl, make sure she knows I am a respectful reliable gentleman, safe, clean, discreet, and fun, funny.
My All Time Favorite Stripper, Ally, started dancing when I was going to see a Current Favorite Ariel.
Ally was just over 20 years, sweet, beautiful and shy. She became friendly and would seat with me while I was waiting for Ariel, would let me know if Ariel was not there, would tell the waitresses to let Ariel know I have arrived.
Once Ally was tired and fell asleep on my shoulder and thanked me for letting her sleep and rest.
One time when Ariel didn’t show up I asked Ally to go to the 15 minute VIP, she was so sweet and excited.
We had to wait for a “room” and she sat in my lap and we made out like teenagers. Once in the VIP we went as close as humanly possible to Full Service but didn’t do FS.
After the VIP I asked Ally if she would be interested in OTC (“would you be interested in meeting outside the club, we can have a better, more comfortable experience, and you don’t have to share money with the club?”) and gave her my number, but she said she didn’t do that.
I keep going to visit Ariel and she didn’t show up another time and I took Ally to the VIP again, and again we were so close to FS, but we didn’t have FS, however she was so nice, excited, shy and cute.
I was still visiting Ariel, on the weekends, when Ally texted me on the middle of the week to ask me if I was still interested on OTC with her, I answer of course I am.
We made an appointment, I went to pick her up near her place and we went to a small hotel and had a very nice GFE type of experience. Ally was a sweet and nice Baby Stripper.
Ally and I developed a Sugar Baby type of relationship we had OTC almost every week for more than two years.
I would pick her up on Sunday afternoon, get a nice hotel room and make love, massage each other, have room service, sometimes we would go to dinner to a nice fancy place. She would refer to me as her fiancé to other people, her sister told me.
I have thousands of pictures of her modeling cute sexy outfits I got for her. Around Halloween she was slave princesses Leia from Star Wars, Dallas Cowboy Cheerleader, Playboy Bunny. Around Christmas a sexy miss Santa, naughty school girl.
Like I said Ally was a baby stripper when we meet, very sweet and nice, the sex got better and better because she was more comfortable and felt safe relaxed and was able to let herself go and enjoy it, I enjoyed it too, she would experience multiple orgasms and was very shy and sweet about it.
Sometimes she would spend the night and would fall a sleep with her head on my chest like the little angel she was.
She texted me one last time letting me know she was moving on and thanking me for the relationship...
She was worth every penny and every second I spent on her.
Thank you for making me remember that OTC relationship.
With respect to escorts what worked for me was selecting a high end escort; a twenty something girl from Russia in Beverly Hills.
I wrote an article about that experience:
“How I found my All Time Favorite woman.”
https://tuscl.net/article.php?id=50809
Sexual interactions in various forms is nothing new in western culture. I would refer you to Demosthenes (384 – 12 October 322 BC)
Greek statesman and orator of ancient Athens.
1. We have courtesans for the sake of pleasure.
2. Concubines for the daily health of our bodies, and
3. Wives to bear us lawful offspring and be the faithful guardians of our homes
In this list is the Greek view of woman in the classic age.
And in all ages and times.
All men want that, but only some can afford it...
In today’s world the rich can say:
1. We have high end escorts, centerfolds, actresses, models, etc that provide PSE/GFE for the sake of pleasure.
2. Mistresses/Sugar Babies/Strippers ITC OTC; etc, for the daily needs of our bodies.
3. Wives and trophy wives to bear us lawful offspring, and be the faithful guardians of our homes.
Just enjoy life and be careful out there.
Also some men convince themselves a hooker isn't a hooker unless that's what they call her
I have not been in the game as long as some of you, but I’m my experience I prefer strippers. With escorts, unless you live in a big city, you’re getting the same 100 hookers in Eros for months. Outdated pics, GPS galore, 10 years older than their pics etc. At the club, you get on average much younger, hotter and much more variety. You get dark lighting to hide flaws sure, but give me that over old photos any day
https://tuscl.net/article.php?id=44731
In all seriousness, I honestly think the preference for “escort vs stripper vs AMP vs Seeking” etc is
1) really area dependent . Not all places have all escorts who are “blow and go” some are personable and also do match their photos (or so I’ve been told) Just like a club your mileage may vary.
2) Individual personality
Individual personality is key. That’s why strip clubs are great. You can “interview” in person before committing to anything.
I knew I had seen that post before, but couldn’t remember exactly where.
PLs call themselves "hobbyists" to soften the exchange
Years ago, when I saw more escorts, I was very careful about research on all the relevant sites. If a provider didn't have a history of good reviews and accurate photos, then I didn't take the chance. So, I was never scammed or busted in a sting. What I didn't love about escorts was the background checks/verification (though I understand the reasoning behind them). I also didn't love having to schedule an appointment and then show up on time. It' felt a bit more mechanical and less organic than going to a club, where I could go to VIP or not depending on my mood. So, right now, I'm not doing escorts at all and don't see me going back to that.
Perhaps it has something to do with where I live, but I have no problem asking for extras (or OTC) even when I'm in a non-extras club. Even if I'm asking "So, if we do a private room, how much fun can we have?" I try to frame is as letting the dancer tell me her limits before we go into a room and I do something wrong. If they tell me that they don't offer extras or have limits, I follow up with something like: "Got it. I understand the limits. But, if I do something you don't like in there, I want you to tell me right away so that I stop right away."
How they answer can also help me decide if I want to move forward with a private room. If they set limits (including no extras) but say that there will be a lot of mileage, then I'm probably still in. If they answer with a lot of misleading language, implying extras but likely without the intention to actually provide them, then I back out. One benefit of having done this for a while is that I'm pretty good at recognizing when a dancer promises the world but does not intend to follow through.
I've been going to strip clubs somewhat regularly since my mid-30s, and I'm squarely not in my mid-30s anymore. In all that time, I've had only one dancer get remotely snotty with me because I asked her for extras and she was offended. All of the others ... it didn't phase them at all.
I imagine the biggest reason for prostituting out of a club would be safety and bouncers.
I also feel like there might be less competition at the club vs the internet. Idk for sure though.
So usually best to move her to FS quickly, and save the BJ till completion till some time later, when you are already fucking her regularly.
SJG
SJG
He says don't treat women like vending machines, and then at the same time says 'select' the one you want and she can be gotten to. That sounds exactly like a vending machine. Except people in the real world know that's not how dating works at all. In SJG's fantasy world it doesn't matter what you look like, your occupation, interests, your attitude, how you two click with each other. You just select the girl, and she can be yours.
Most delusional shit I've ever heard. I mean SLD and others have already broken down this dude's creepy ass mind. It's just wild that this fucker keeps presenting his delusional ideas like they're facts.
SJG
Then if you are going to see her a second time, it will be outside of the club.
SJG
There is no rule or reason that says it has to be EITHER extras OR hookers. For me, it's both, PLUS Sugar Babies.
Each path to pleasure has it's pros and cons. Each has a risk of being scammed, infected, or arrested. And each has the potential to be the best sex you've had this day/week/month/decade.
If you're into her, talk to her and see where it goes. Just think with the BIG head first and make sure you are reasonably certain to get what you pay for.
No one that works in a club, works as an escort, or looks for a sugar daddy will freak out when you ask them for sex.
Many escorts dance to recruit otc clients. Escorts, strippers, SD site gals are all basically sex workers pay for pussi concubines.
It’s like a fb coach recruiting from pipeline stats and a coupler of states not in pipeline.
The relaxation rooms had leather divan, door that shut, end table, and adjustable lighting. I think this how sc should be. You could just strip her, lay her down and hump hell outta her while talking dirty. Or just let her ride u which awesome.
Pics and Vids or it didn’t happen.
:D
Good times, good times.
Probably in the Philippines and a bunch of other places in the work that I haven't been.
Outside of Germany, you don't have to hang out in a towel with a bunch of German guys in towels before you pick a girl...
And then in San Francisco, especially in the no alcohol clubs I had experienced enough of it, and I knew there was no legal basis for any prohibition. I mean you could be out on the sidewalk kissing pretty girls all day long. So long as you don't block the sidewalk or driveways, there is nothing the law could do about it.
And then in our underground circuit, what rules there are is completely arbitrary. They really like open tongue kissing, at it usually gets you pussy in the face. The girls want to line up all the OTC they can, so they want to go the extra distance.
So when I first joined TUSCL, I did extensive searching on Stripper Web, using Google Advanced Search carefully.
On Stripper Web they are livid about the kissing. They are livid, because they are seeing it. So there must be something for them to see.
They see kissing in the dance booths. They see kissing at stage side. And they see girls who come around and give thank you DFKing to anyone who gave her $1 in her set. And so probably this often leads to extensive front room makeout sessions.
Now these Stripper Web girls are livid. But they aren't the ones who are doing it.
At Club-Ante, when it was getting close to closure, the back room mileage skyrocketed, and girls were totally disarming guys by giving stage side DFKing when they were not expecting that.
And of course, a girl always likes it when a guy asserts himself to make something happen with her. So kissing her has a big effect, and all the more if it is done in front of other people.
And then these stripper web girls are livid, but there they also talk about escorting. There they all understand that kissing is standard.
And then girls talk about wearing flavored lip gloss for all the kissing they do at the strip club. They like to surprise guys and totally disarm them.
https://cosmeticholic.com/products/br-00…
https://www.amazon.com/Lip-Smacker-Origi…
https://www.amazon.com/Just-My-Style-Glo…
(had a little server problem in getting this posted)
SJG
OMS - Introduction to Martinism
I get that club hookers do shit in the club cuz there is security etc.
I also don't get it though because I feel like perhaps it is a bad use of time, and as we all know TIME IS MONEY AT WORK. If I was a hooker, I'd rather post ads online and have a higher % of my working time paid for. We all know that at most clubs the girls are not going to be busy 100% of the time. Especially if these are clubs that have bullshit scheduling and minimum hours requirements which is just bullshit designed to lower girls' money per hour and not give them employee bennies. IMHO
I also realize that a lot of club hookers pay fucking retardedass fees because a lot of clubs are on some bullshit with their fees. If I was going to be taking strange dick for cash idk I wouldn't wanna feel pimped out by handing a club like $700 out of a $1200 transaction.
https://www.becomegorgeous.com/makeup-pr…
https://www.eonline.com/news/1118178/puc…
SJG
Done them all
In my experience blahblah is right. An attractive, healthy looking woman who can handle fucking people who neither arouse her nor want to any commitment with her generally sees escorting with screening as the best option.
Escorts often have their own websites, social media accounts, professional photos, escort review site listing, etc. They also have to set up in a hotel room that will see a lot of traffic, sometimes getting them in trouble. Then they need to think about and maintain security and screening procedures. And, at least some of those things come at a cost.
There are several local dancers who went that route when the clubs closed. All but one (that I know of) has pulled down all of their escorting sites and social media now that they are back to dancing.
Providing extras in a club gives the dancer the option to do OTC in private with some customers while keeping other guys limited to the VIP. So, they are escorting, but with more options and flexibility.
There's also the fact that an escort caught in a sting is out there on her own with a bunch of online presences pointing to the fact that she's selling sex. Whereas, when the cops bust a club, it's the club that often gets in more trouble than the individual dancers.
Providing extras out of a club provides a bit more cover. It also allows the dancer to do the same work, but without a ton of stuff out there pointing to the fact that they're selling sex.
Some folks simply can't run the risk of seeing a pro.
With extra's you have more time to sample before commiting
SJG
https://tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=7710…
That way there are no rules about stage side, front room, back room, or immediate OTC.
I read in a general audience travel book about Mexico, that there they cannot understand our no touching strip clubs. They said that in Mexico, if a man likes a stripper, the first thing he does is kiss her.
Well I had to think about that some. I think, Mexican strip clubs all have session rooms. So kissing her is the guy's way of telling her that they are off to the session room. That is certainly how I would do it.
They just did not want to lay all that out in the open in a general audience book.
We have the remedy before us, in this Private Party Model.
And even in in DV San Francisco, girls can be playout and softened up, and often they will be demonstrably reversing themselves on their no kissing position. It just takes time and is expensive. But if you plan to be waking up in the mornings with the girl, it is still worth it.
SJG
https://tuscl.net/photo.php?id=8755
SJG
I think there is a LOT more to it than that, which CMI called out a lot of it. The other big factor to add in: does she want to run her own business, with all the work, lack of discretion, and risk that implies? She has to create alluring ads, which is both work and risks everyone in her life knowing she's an escort. She pays for the hotel room, and if two of her 3 clients are no-shows today (which is very common for newer escorts, who also may not have the leverage to ask for a deposit) she basically barely covers the room. If her first client is at 11am, she better be ready for him at 11am, not stroll in an hour later because she partied too much last night and overslept. And then there is the perceived extra risk of being alone in a hotel room with a stranger vs in the club with bouncers around.
All in all, I'd say most extras strippers are not cut out to be escorts, and are making a perfectly rational choice by staying extras strippers.
Always good to hear from you Subraman.
SJG
The problem is that our clubs and our laws are too restrictive, and so we get this clip joint / extras / vending machine model.
A place in San Mateo CA, it was closing, so girls were doing stage side DFKing, and then back room FS. Some of them White girls.
SJG
SJG
Especially since you're close enough to just go to TJ, rather than building it up as a mythical fantasy land in your creepy brain.
Personally, I concur with blah. The danger factor is a moot point and I trust my judgement of a customer over a vip host/bouncer/manager’s (lack of) concern—If going that route, seems better to save the money paying their smug selves off and get a separate incall apartment decorated with art I like, and fridge full of meals I prep myself at my leisure, and a corner I can do computer work, work out, or read books while in between customers. Seems way less stressful.
SJG
SJG