Brady this, Brady that..
hey i'm not taking anything away from the guy, he's doubtless one of the all time greats but it's a team game. I only saw early parts and the end of the game, what Brady throw, 3 INTs?
How about a Tampa defense that covered for Brady turning it over?
How about Bruce Arians? IMO an often underrated overlooked head coach.
Will he have to change his name before the Super bowl BTW? I mean we can't have any arians on such a widely viewed event. Maybe he can change his name to Bruce Sharpton or Bruce X for the next couple weeks. Got to appease the woke crowd!
Anyway, my point is Brady didn't do it by himself but congrats to him and his team for getting this far.
Doesn’t matter during that stand Green Bay has so much trouble getting in the end zone if Rodgers would have ran it in I bet they would ha e failed at the 2 pt conversion.
@ T-don- Yep, that 2nd interception that was tipped off of Mike Evans hands was one of those flukes that can tip games the other way. The 3rd one just throwing the ball up in the air is just asking for an interception. Fate smiled on the Bucs today.
There’s no stats for leadership and every team needs to be led. Both Belichek & Ariens have pointed out that Brady motivates his teammates and is “coaching” all the time. With a few exceptions, every team is composed of players who have been in the sport’s elite throughout high school and college. Those that consistently win are those who have motivated players who make each other “look good” by complementing each other’s skills and abilities . Has Brady done this for two decades? Certainly.
Even if Rodgers had run it in as he should have, the way they were playing they probably would have missed the 2 point conversion anyway. Clearly should have tried, though.
* 11 Superbowl appearances and 6 rings to show for it.
* 13 AFC Championship games in the 19 seasons he played.
* Playoff berths in 17 of the 19 seasons he played and barely missing on the other 2.
And most important:
* Many of these playoff berths and AFC Championship appearances in years where you couldn't pick many of his receivers out of a police lineup and a few during years where the offensive line was utter shit. There were a number of seasons where this guy literally willed the Pats into the playoffs and made everyone around him better. Oh, and all of this success in a salary cap era specifically designed to PREVENT this from happening.
And now:
* He is going to his 12th Superbowl appearance and has an NFC Chamionship to add to his 11 AFC Champinships.
Now is he the same Tom Brady that he was 10 years ago? Of course not. But he was still good enough to lead yet another NFL team to both the second highest passing yards per game in the league AND the second highest points per game. He certainly didn't do it on his own, but he's far from the only NFL QB with good pieces around him.
He is 100% uncontestably the GOAT, by almost any conceivable metric anyone can come up with. His success goes far beyond a generationally great QB to a completely unique historical phenomenon that may never be seen again in this sport.
Let us ignore the 13-3 win over the Rams that was .0001% Brady and the rest defense. Let us pretend he did it all himself. He may be the Goat, but the goat had a lot of help.
^ Completely agreed ski. At 43 he is not the Tom Brady of even 5 years ago. In his earlier days he was freakin' inhuman. Now he's just one of the best in the league. But answer this: Even at 43 years of age and somewhat declining skills, how many QBs would you want in the league right now more than him?
No question that Brady is great, and he’s a large part of why Tampa Bay is back at the big game, but Mahomes is the best at his position now, and if the game comes down to a quarterback duel my money is on Mahomes
Tampa's defense won this game, and Brady contributed a lot to the outcome in the games first half. In the second half, when Brady wasn't busy trying to give the game away (ala Favre, Brees, Manning) - he contributed a little (every other pass). Green Bay's defense lost this game! No Super Bowl contending team allows any receiver to get behind them with 8 seconds left in the half. Green Bay's 2 penalties for too many men on the field were priceless! Aaron Rodgers wasn't blameless in not putting up 31 points, but Matt LaFleur lacked comprehension on multiple occasions yesterday! On at least 4 occasions, Green Bay let the play clock run down under 1.5 second - allowing JPP and Shaq Barrett to time the snap and disrupt the offense. Yes Rodgers contributed to that, but it was a team effort to not manage the play clock time after time. Even bad teams run a hurry up offense on occasion!
I am a Giants fan. This hurts me to say, but Brady is one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time. I also think he’s one of the best leaders.
It seemed the entire Patriots offense was built around him, and he continued to perform in each game. Now that he’s moved away from Beliceck, I’m even more impressed to see him back in the super bowl.
The only knock I have on him is his leaving Bridgette Moynihan when she was pregnant with his son. But, seeing who he left her for, I can’t fault him too much...
You are right rockie - 6 rings and a mere 9 Superbowl appearances and 9 AFC championships. His numbers are so astounding that I got jumbled a bit as I was typing fast. Now add an NFC Championship (tenth division title) and a 10th Superbowl appearance to his resume.
First part of my long post above reposted for accuracy:
Even before this season:
* 9 Superbowl appearances and 6 rings to show for it.
* 13 AFC Championship games in the 19 seasons he played.
* Playoff berths in 17 of the 19 seasons he played and barely missing on the other 2.
Yup, that looks much worse. We should immediately find the QBs that have had this much success across ALL of these metrics and then discuss so that we can compare apples to apples.
Oh wait, there aren't any quarterbacks who come close...oh...
As a Pats fan, you gave me a WTF and moment earlier today! I thought they were offering free drinks in Pasco County this morning - Legs and Eggs to start the work week!
I will always be a die hard Pats fan. It's in my DNA, starting with watching Pats football (remember Steve Grogan anyone?) each Sunday with my Dad after he brought me home from little league football all the way through my formative years. When the Pats finally won the first Superbowl, when I was MUCH older I might add, I was in a sports bar hopping up and down in an arm lock triangle with two dudes who I didn't know crying "They fucking won!!! They fucking won!!!"
But Brady also has my loyalty, which he earned by giving us 20 years of the best football that any NFL fan has ever experienced. He wanted to win more than anything and it showed. He even took less in his contract than he could have received in order to leave the team with cap space to put pieces around him. I have great respect for him and I'm rooting for the Bucs now ALMOST as much as I would root for the Pats if they were in the hunt.
I remember the announcers talking blase about "and he'll be replaced by Tom Brady, he's a pocket passer, 5th-rounder out of Michigan." I thought they got lucky (or good on D) against the Greatest Show on Turf but then the next year, bam. From kid to GOAT.
after that jet game brady takes over as starter. 11 1/2 point underdogs against the colts and peyton manning. a 44-13 annihilation. turned out to be way more than an eric zeier, a matt flynn. an aj feeley, etc
Remember Steve Grogan? I saw Steve Grogan come off the bench to replace feeble Tony Eason and throw a touchdown pass to Stanley Morgan in the last NFL game ever played in the Orange Bowl. Also saw the Patriots get their ass kicked in a home game in Harvard Stadium.
@rattdog, it always seemed like Manning put up gaudier numbers than Brady, but he always had an ace supporting cast and folded against superior defenses. Brady just gets it done, even with patchwork pass catchers. It wasn't until he got guys like Moss and prime Gronkowski that we saw what he could truly do.
Though the 07 Giants were tailor-made to beat Brady, they could bring heat particularly up the middle.
sure at the beginning of his career peyton manning was putting up dan fouts brett favre type of numbers with studs by his side.
meanwhile brady had to get established with guys like troy brown, deion branch, kevin faulk - not exactly household names like faulk, harrison, james and wayne.
troy brown did have a couple of seasons that were all pro worthy though.
I go back to a childhood in a Boston south suburb where Giants football owned our television screen, and you got our Patriots broadcast strictly from the local radio broadcast. The Patriots team of the mid sixties couldn’t sell out any venue that held more than 12,000 fans. The Jim Plunkett era Patriots was the first sign of life (a pulse) in a Patriots NFL existence,in 9 yea and the occasional presence on TV. The Grogan era loss to the Raiders was heart wrenching for this 18 year old, and suck it Oakland - The tuck rule was redemption for Phil Villapiano’s non call on Russ Francis! I think Villapiano LDK’d during that ride!
Amen Rockie. My dad was a Giants fan and I had to hear about Y.A. Tittle and Homer Jones as a kid. 1975 pats got screwed by Ben Dreith. Thought they might have been the best pats team ever. We used to drive to Springfield to watch Pats games on tv. I still can't figure out why.
I am barely younger than you and I watched more of Homer Jones and Fran Tarkenton playing on the local television broadcast than I ever saw of Babe Parilli, Art Graham, and Jim Nance.
A Springfield MA television broadcast was outside the NFL’s heavily imposed 75 mile “blackout” restriction and the stadiums of the day (Fenway, Alumni, Harvard U, et al). Obviously your Dad loved football and a drive to Springfield was very doable from your local.
When we became of drinking age(1975) a bar in downtown worcester got channel 22 from Springfield so we started watching games there. It was a divey place and crude as all hell but ok until one time a patron next to us announced he was "taking a leak, got up, turned around, pissed on the floor, then turned back to his beer and sat down. Two hours later we were gone for good lol
>I remember the announcers talking blase about "and he'll be replaced by Tom Brady, he's a pocket passer, 5th-rounder out of Michigan."
Interesting comment that made me wonder about the draft positions of the other most successful quarterbacks - those with 3 or more world championships.
Sid Luckman - pick 2 by Bears from Pittsburgh, 4x world champion 40,41,43,46
Otto Graham - pick 4 by Lions but signed for Browns of the AAFC, 3x world champion 50,54,55 plus 4 AAFC championships from 46-49
Johnny Unitas - pick 102-round 9 of 1955 draft by Pittsburgh but cut from team before season. Signed by Colts in 1956 and became the starting QB after George Shaw, the 1955 overall first pick, was injured. 3x world champ 58,59,70
Bart Starr - pick 200-round 17, 5x world champ 61,62,65,66,67
Terry Bradshaw - pick 1. Began the 74 season behind Terry Gilliam before regaining the starting position after 6 games. 4x world champ 74,75,78,79.
Joe Montana - pick 82-round 3. 4x world champ 81,84,88,89.
Troy Aikman - pick 1. 3x world champ 92,93,95.
Tom Brady - pick 199-round 6. 6x world champ 01,03,04,14,16,18.
Brady and Unitas were the only QBs with a long gap between championships. Also notice that pretty much each decade had one dominant QB excepting Unitas whose championships were separated by Starr's accomplishments.
But what isn't reflected in that gap between Brady's 6 Superbowl wins is everything he did in between, which included 5 other AFC Championship appearances, three of which they won to send him to 3 more Superbowl appearances. When you factor in his upcoming SB appearance, the guy has competed in virtually half of all Superbowls held during the years in which he has played.
Name another QB who has come even close to competing in 10 Superbowls, on two different teams no less. Let me save you the trouble, there isn't one. Elway is the next highest - at half that number (5).
Somewhat correct, Unitas was injured in the 2nd quarter of the Super Bowl and Morrall came in with Colts down 13-6. But Unitas started all the Colts games except for the regular season finale because the Colts had already won the division. So giving credit to Unitas.
The way I see it was that both Brady and Bellichek had something to prove they could be successful without each other, Brady proved it Bellichek did not.
twentyfive: The way you see it - Brady taught Belichick what it take to win! That's pretty funny considering the Stud QB he was at Michigan. Brady was a good college QB, but not so good to be a 3 year starter at Michigan.
The way I see it, Brady was teachable and absorbed just about every morsel of knowledge available to him in the Patriots system. Once he mastered all that was available to him in football knowledge and physical improvement, he actually pursued more knowledge outside the Patriots system. At that point Brady, resented not being treated as an equal to the coaching staff and his problems became an issue for both parties. Brady certainly has the capacity to contribute to the Buccaneer knowledge base, but I would suggest 75% is Patriot process and 25% Brady centric.
What certainly is fair is that the functioning Tom Brady of 2020/2021 brought a lot to the Buccaneers and the Buc's cumulative performance dwarfed the performance of the Patriots this season in Tom's absence.
it's both - they both equally needed each other overall. this season advantage brady due to the weapons that he had and a good coach. arians is not a shit coach. in the same echelon as john harbaugh, tomlin, carroll, mcvay etc.
To deem Brady the winner is ridiculous. If Brady was on the patriots this year he'd have been 5-11. Building a team in the NFL is incredibly hard. Going to a team with a decent defense and a ton of offensive firepower and winning, is far less. T Brady is the Goat of all time. So is Belichik. If Brady won it all this year and Belichik rebuilt the Patriots and won it next year I would submit Belichik's accomplishment would be greater. Brady is a unique rarity in that he's a cerebral ballplayer and not an athletic one.
As usual skibum misses the point no one claimed Bellichek wasn’t an excellent coach what the point was there have been some pretty loud rumblings out of Foxboro that Brady and Bellichek were not so kumbya together, so they parted ways and at this point it has worked out better for Brady than Bellichek
OK does that make sense to you or is that also a socialist POV ya tahd, even us Brooklyn guys speak a little Boston to make it easier for you to understand
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hey i'm not taking anything away from the guy, he's doubtless one of the all time greats but it's a team game. I only saw early parts and the end of the game, what Brady throw, 3 INTs?
How about a Tampa defense that covered for Brady turning it over?
How about Bruce Arians? IMO an often underrated overlooked head coach.
Will he have to change his name before the Super bowl BTW? I mean we can't have any arians on such a widely viewed event. Maybe he can change his name to Bruce Sharpton or Bruce X for the next couple weeks. Got to appease the woke crowd!
Anyway, my point is Brady didn't do it by himself but congrats to him and his team for getting this far.
43 or not, he's the GOAT, and he's playing angry.
anybody honestly think if brady could qb this green bay team to a playoff berth?
Doesn’t matter during that stand Green Bay has so much trouble getting in the end zone if Rodgers would have ran it in I bet they would ha e failed at the 2 pt conversion.
Even before this season:
* 11 Superbowl appearances and 6 rings to show for it.
* 13 AFC Championship games in the 19 seasons he played.
* Playoff berths in 17 of the 19 seasons he played and barely missing on the other 2.
And most important:
* Many of these playoff berths and AFC Championship appearances in years where you couldn't pick many of his receivers out of a police lineup and a few during years where the offensive line was utter shit. There were a number of seasons where this guy literally willed the Pats into the playoffs and made everyone around him better. Oh, and all of this success in a salary cap era specifically designed to PREVENT this from happening.
And now:
* He is going to his 12th Superbowl appearance and has an NFC Chamionship to add to his 11 AFC Champinships.
Now is he the same Tom Brady that he was 10 years ago? Of course not. But he was still good enough to lead yet another NFL team to both the second highest passing yards per game in the league AND the second highest points per game. He certainly didn't do it on his own, but he's far from the only NFL QB with good pieces around him.
He is 100% uncontestably the GOAT, by almost any conceivable metric anyone can come up with. His success goes far beyond a generationally great QB to a completely unique historical phenomenon that may never be seen again in this sport.
* 11 Superbowl appearances and 6 rings to show for it."
I interrupt this Blutarsky moment to suggest that it really was 9 Super Bowls, but that the 6 rings is accurate!
It seemed the entire Patriots offense was built around him, and he continued to perform in each game. Now that he’s moved away from Beliceck, I’m even more impressed to see him back in the super bowl.
The only knock I have on him is his leaving Bridgette Moynihan when she was pregnant with his son. But, seeing who he left her for, I can’t fault him too much...
Even before this season:
* 9 Superbowl appearances and 6 rings to show for it.
* 13 AFC Championship games in the 19 seasons he played.
* Playoff berths in 17 of the 19 seasons he played and barely missing on the other 2.
Yup, that looks much worse. We should immediately find the QBs that have had this much success across ALL of these metrics and then discuss so that we can compare apples to apples.
Oh wait, there aren't any quarterbacks who come close...oh...
GOAT.
But Brady also has my loyalty, which he earned by giving us 20 years of the best football that any NFL fan has ever experienced. He wanted to win more than anything and it showed. He even took less in his contract than he could have received in order to leave the team with cap space to put pieces around him. I have great respect for him and I'm rooting for the Bucs now ALMOST as much as I would root for the Pats if they were in the hunt.
Though the 07 Giants were tailor-made to beat Brady, they could bring heat particularly up the middle.
meanwhile brady had to get established with guys like troy brown, deion branch, kevin faulk - not exactly household names like faulk, harrison, james and wayne.
troy brown did have a couple of seasons that were all pro worthy though.
A Springfield MA television broadcast was outside the NFL’s heavily imposed 75 mile “blackout” restriction and the stadiums of the day (Fenway, Alumni, Harvard U, et al). Obviously your Dad loved football and a drive to Springfield was very doable from your local.
Interesting comment that made me wonder about the draft positions of the other most successful quarterbacks - those with 3 or more world championships.
Sid Luckman - pick 2 by Bears from Pittsburgh, 4x world champion 40,41,43,46
Otto Graham - pick 4 by Lions but signed for Browns of the AAFC, 3x world champion 50,54,55 plus 4 AAFC championships from 46-49
Johnny Unitas - pick 102-round 9 of 1955 draft by Pittsburgh but cut from team before season. Signed by Colts in 1956 and became the starting QB after George Shaw, the 1955 overall first pick, was injured. 3x world champ 58,59,70
Bart Starr - pick 200-round 17, 5x world champ 61,62,65,66,67
Terry Bradshaw - pick 1. Began the 74 season behind Terry Gilliam before regaining the starting position after 6 games. 4x world champ 74,75,78,79.
Joe Montana - pick 82-round 3. 4x world champ 81,84,88,89.
Troy Aikman - pick 1. 3x world champ 92,93,95.
Tom Brady - pick 199-round 6. 6x world champ 01,03,04,14,16,18.
Brady and Unitas were the only QBs with a long gap between championships. Also notice that pretty much each decade had one dominant QB excepting Unitas whose championships were separated by Starr's accomplishments.
Name another QB who has come even close to competing in 10 Superbowls, on two different teams no less. Let me save you the trouble, there isn't one. Elway is the next highest - at half that number (5).
GOAT.
The way I see it, Brady was teachable and absorbed just about every morsel of knowledge available to him in the Patriots system. Once he mastered all that was available to him in football knowledge and physical improvement, he actually pursued more knowledge outside the Patriots system. At that point Brady, resented not being treated as an equal to the coaching staff and his problems became an issue for both parties. Brady certainly has the capacity to contribute to the Buccaneer knowledge base, but I would suggest 75% is Patriot process and 25% Brady centric.
What certainly is fair is that the functioning Tom Brady of 2020/2021 brought a lot to the Buccaneers and the Buc's cumulative performance dwarfed the performance of the Patriots this season in Tom's absence.
OK does that make sense to you or is that also a socialist POV ya tahd, even us Brooklyn guys speak a little Boston to make it easier for you to understand