The clubs will lose or will end up settling for a 6 figure amount to each dancer. The lawyers are just following the playbooks established in California and other states for "contractor vs employee" suits. (Ex: Current cases in California for ride share and food delivery drivers - the so-called "Gig Economy")
The clubs are at fault. Not for trying to cheat the dancers (although they do), but for being too stupid to adhere to federal and state laws on how to hire and manage independent contractors. There is a ton of legal precedent from contractor vs employee suits set over the last 30+ years. From these past cases, the club's lawyers should have provided a simple set of tests that the courts have used to determine if a worker is an employee or a contractor.
The club owners either don't have or ignored those tests. So they will lose these lawsuits. Just like big tech companies did in the 2000's and like beauty salons did in the 1990's and like strip clubs did in Cali in the 2010s.
And after all the smoke clears and these 4 dancers get their $100-$500k payouts, the clubs will change hiring practices and the result will be dancers making less money (some dancers in California have told me their net incomes dropped as much as 45% after being converted to employees).
Then the best dancers will leave.
Then the customers will be disappointed and will spend less.
Then the clubs will lose money and will either
- raise prices in a useless attempt to make customers pay for their mistakes, or
- they will close.
Then we all stop buying dances and start buying lube in 55 gallon drums.
Both the Yellow Rose and Palazio let me leave whenever the heck I wanted. Perfect 10 Bratton didn’t, but they still allowed you to leave. Tho idk why referring to the time you show up affecting how much you pay is a “fine”. Seems fair to me.
Austin in general treats dancers as the independent contractors they are pretty consistently imo.
I agree though with being annoyed at not being able to set dance prices—mostly because room prices are already high enough so what is the difference? But that’s not worth suing over...
Its about the future and having security. Dancers are the driving force behind clubs but their power isn't asserted.
Youre short sighted thinking making a few bucks here and there travelling to different states etc is enough. Its not unless you want to be like a stripper hoe I used to call grandma. She was in her 50s but hot AF. Filipina so she looked younger. But her retirement plan was marrying the first guy who would take her
If clubs really wanted to be optimal ~for~ dancers, they would switch to the “booking” model that some upper Midwest clubs used to do. Work for six days and follow their schedule (usually 8-10 hour shifts) and they gave you base pay of $300-$500. But enough dancers have filled their rosters in the past 10 years ago that I think most have done away with it? But of course that’s my travel bias wanting to be able to be highly mobile. But there is something to be said that a lot of managers are nicer when girls easily have the ability to vote with their feet.
Or even better, how it was in the late 80s/early 90s when dancers were being PAID $5-$15/hr (in 1990s dollars) and got to keep their tips on top of that. But that ship has probably long sailed long ago and not worth contemplating.
Either way, both are way better than the California employee model. It seemed to not be too terrible for dancers in Springfield MO from what little I could tell, but then again thats probably a place for moderate consistent money and nothing particularly big. But it’s a small low COL town so probably not the worst.
On the plus side, I heard it’s really likely that girls who participate on cam sites will be exempted from California AB5 restrictions and able to remain independent contractors. But good riddance the fact that was an issue in the first place was ridiculous anyways.
I have talked to the Texas labor board about this very topic in Dallas clubs. We don’t want to be employees and going to court will result in that. We just want to be treated as independent contractors when we are now required to sign documents that state the differences between independent and employee. Ex dancers are fucking this up for everyone by suing the clubs and changing the environment for everyone. Very frustrating.
Thats a minority position based on ignorance. The fact that clubs refise to fairly implement laws doesn't make those laws bad. They just need better enforcement
It's the ones who don't make money who file these suits. Any dancer finishing a shift with anything over $175 dollars will resist reclassification from IC to employee. Then on top pay income taxes too.
I regret every time I unmute an iced loco comment.
You don’t understand strip clubs and the stripper perspective like you think you do because you’re not a stripper, and you never will. Enforcing more rules is not the problem of a strip club 99% of the time. It is the opposite of the problem on this topic, for strippers, of which you are not one and therefore lack empathetic perspective.
It's not the ones that aren't making money. It's mostly the ones that are no longer working there and see it as a way to grab some money. The lawyers are happy to oblige as they will get 35-40% of any awards.
Pinksugardoll youre free to be a hoe if you want. But don't confuse that with being a stripper.
All the dancers I know hate club management and feel exploited. They want protections that workers have. The ability to get unemployment. Possible benefits. Pay into their social security. They like getting paid per hour.....but the clubs end up stealing that money from them ....cheat them a lot.
But yeah many dancers don't think beyond the short term
The idiots on here don't support dancers rights coz theyre right wing nutjobs.
And pinksugardoll profile. Funny how you try to call me what CD is then his winex profile posted right after. He used to have a dancer profile. What next he'll post as dave Anderson 🤣🤣
I’ve been on this board over 5 years and I have one account.
NONE OF US WANT PAY PER HOUR WHEN IT MEANS WE DONT GET TO KEEP OUR TIPS. Not one person wants that and that’s what these lawsuits result in, so wise up.
Independent contractors do not get the benefits that you are talking about and they also get paid minimum wage.
Wise up.
I’m not reading any of your comments anymore. No one here thinks you have stripper friends besides you. ✌🏼
I think you should be able to give someone up to a grand a day for companionship (with or without anything sexual), with no tax implication. No income tax, no gift tax, nothing. You can give unlimited amounts to your spouse with no tax implications. If we're really pro-family, we should not give people a financial incentive to start a family if that's not really what they prefer. Fewer fucked up families, fewer people who cringe every time they think of their childhood.
What torques me is that I effectively have to subsidize all the people who put the dancer giving me a lap dance in a shit mood. She's forced to go on stage for people who don't tip or tip shitty, and are often there to get loser-ass jollies from being a dick to her. But the club is cool with these customers as long as they're buying drinks. Because my geezer ass can't stay up that late, most or all of what the dancer makes off me is going to the house fee or bullshit fines.
I think if they can do the employee status the right way I wouldn't mind it. Maybe it would keep the hookers out and result in some sort of standards with some sort of sales training. As it is now, yeah it seems like employee status in clubs is just a way to scam girls out of more money. Either way the industry is fucked up and abusive to the girls who keep the money coming in. I feel like it is just gonna get worse and more abusive to dancers unless these dysfunctional bitches can stop being catty to each other for a little bit to band together and actually unfuck this whole industry. Just my worthless 2 cents.
In California making dancers employees helped a lot when it comes to how ckubs treat dancers and rules favor dancers over customers when it comes to safety and conflicts. It also led to nicer dressing rooms.
Dancers get $15 an hour but a lot of clubs If not most raised house fees and reauire dancers to work a set number of slow nights or day shifts so they have a chance t9 work weekends. And they basically take their wages to cover house fees and fees they made up. A lot of managers even lie and don't count all if their hours. They do take advantage of them and pretty much just take the money back.
Some clubs are fair and even get girls taxes done for free and stuff. But theyre far from the majority.
And hookers tend to avoid clubs that follow the rules which helps dancers.
It sucks but it's a start.
Management needs to reakize there are no clubs without dancers.
They could give dancers a choice. None would want to work as an employee. Contractors could have more freedom and have to pay tip out like it is now. Employees would receive a salary and have to give up a lot of their money. They would also be told what shifts to take and have rules about showing up more strictly enforced. Dancers would have to admit they want to be contractors, and that would stop the lawsuits. Most know they don't want to be employees and know that. The rest are confused about what it would mean. I know at Fannies in Atlanta they're employees now and the girls hate it.
^ Palazio already gives a choice. I remember there was two separate options first time I tried out for that club. But there has never been a single dancer that has chosen employee ever. (To my knowledge)
Rules about showing up are enforced strictly coz clubs make money off of fines.
Dancers don't lose money being employees. The wage is on top of what they'd normally earn. But clubs cheat them out 9f it.
Girls hate being employees when clubs cheat them and some are dumb and don't understand taxes. But they hate management's mishandling of i t
Ok I am finding a metric fuck ton of clubs around the US will schedule girls and a large portion of them will fine the shit out of you for not showing up. But same time you have to pay house fees and tip outs etc while receiving no wage or benefits. I am ok paying house and tip out in a club without strictly enforced scheduling, and that is that.
As others posted, seems just like a money-grab that will benefit a few but both dancers and custies will suffer in the end (the costs will be passed on somehow and good-chance the clubs will not be as good going-forward basically killing the goose that lays the golden egg).
IDK the details of contractor-law but it kinda doesn't make sense that a club would not be able to have *any* requirements from the dancers b/c they are contractors - I assume certain clubs take advantage but there should be some sensible middle-ground with dancers being ICs and clubs being able to have certain requirements.
They downvoted it coz I said it and many on here are misogynists and or so right wing they always favor businesses over workers.
But the way clubs treat dancers really pisses me off. Just things like one time my girlfriend was sick and missed a mandatory day....they had to work 2 day shifts inorder to work weekend nights. She was fined $150 for the day she missed and wasn't allowed to work that weekend.
Then in LA had a manager who would pocket her wages. Shed work 3 days but her paycheck would only be for one. Things like that.
One club was so cheap when the power went out they wouldn't let the girls leave unless they paid a double house fee.
In no other field would this be acceptable
Yeah I have seen some of the penny pinching too tho not with that. But I've seen clubs that don't let girls bring in water and force you to buy bottled water at the bar. Seen something online about a club charging girls for toilet paper during the height of the covid 19 hysteria.
Yeah I avoid working at places that fine me for not sticking to a schedule but force me on a schedule. Like fuck that. Want me to work a strict schedule? Take away my house fee at minimum.
Shocked at all these downvotes. These clubs suck in how they mistreat us to an extreme. I am kinda over it. Think all I have left in me in regards to stripping is 1 more run of cash grab then make my exit unless things get better.
Yeah, idk if that was a play on the chemicals or the actual workplace. I don't think every vanilla industry is so toxic anyway. And going and getting a w2 job is not the only exit from stripping out there although the easiest most straightforward way.
The water thing sucks. When girls can't take their water out if the dressing room and have to buy some. Or sell a certain number of drinks to get their house fee waved. I remember one manager who would get pissed off if girls had their own breath mints or candy and not buy them from the club.
A lot of it has to do with managers taking advantagr of the fact that a lot of these girls are so young and may not have other employment options
This was a very interesting read! I am glad I found this. The misclassification of strippers has been a hot topic for years, and it is seemingly only getting hotter.
I have danced for 7 years and I used to teeter-totter on the subject, unable to form an opinion. I didn't know what employee status would mean for a dancer, but I have always been well aware of the bullshit exploitation that is standard game in the industry. I would get SO pissed @ the scheduling requirements, following BS club rules, getting arbitrary fines, etc... yet having to pay my own taxes, no insurance or PTO, maternity leave and most concerning: no protections from sexual harassment or discrimination.
I was finally able to formulate a genuine opinion on the topic, but unfortunately it was a result of me being fired from my home club. I was fired for telling a manager that tipping out is not a requirement (per our dancer contract). He was bullying a brand new, super sweet young dancer. It was 430 am and he said "You didn't tip me last weekend or tonight. Why should I even let you go home?" The dancer got super upset and said she only made $200 and needed the money, to which he said "tipping is required". I felt it was pretty necessary to speak up. I was fired the next morning via our *mandatory" FB group chat. The dancer that was getting bullied was fired immediately after, simply for asking why I got fired for sticking up for our contract. It's worth noting that the manager that was bullying her has been "in trouble" for sexual harassment towards the dancers more than 2 times in the past year. He has never been suspended or fired for it.
This is just the tip of the iceberg, but it was my final straw. The amount of control that these clubs impose on the dancers is unnecessary and downright abusive. I filed a misclassification suit against this club because I know it will win and because enough is enough. Employee status will be an adjustment for sure, but the good news is that the NLRB just ruled that strippers are employee's with the right to unionize. By unionizing, we can negotiate our contracts to win back the flexibility we had as IC's.. plus we'd have hourly wage, sick pay, pto, etc... All the tips that a dancer makes under the employee model is still hers! That is federally mandated. Tips are always the workers to keep. I've read a few different models about the rest of the pay.. for instance: first $X goes to the club, everything after that is split a certain percent (20/80 or 30/70 seems fair to me).
At the end of the day, WE are the industry. If we all left the club, the money will follow US. It's time to take the industry back! I am sick of seeing club owners drive to work in their BMW's while the dancers uber to work. It makes me sick. When is the last time a patron came in the club and handed money to the owner?..... Never! All of that income is off of our backs. The industry needs a change!
Thanks for letting me rant lol
^ You have the same right as anyone who thinks they are the industry take your money and open your own business if you’re right you’ll make a fortune if you’re wrong you’ll be another broke loudmouth
^In places like California and New York, from what I’ve gathered, private party dancers are already a very huge thing. So some have already voted with their feet
I’ve personally worked at the Yellow Rose in the past. Tip out is a flat rate, and generally when managers know girls aren’t doing well they won’t hold you to the $10/manager on the floor standard. Scheduling isn’t a thing at the Rose and the club is also lax with allowing you to leave your shift early when you feel like it.
I believe I already said it earlier, but Texas is one of the better states as far as treating dancers like the IC that we are. Fun fact, Deja Vu actually owns Bucks in Ft Worth. But Texas being Texas, they don’t dare run their club like they would in other states. They allow management to run it as is.
I am kinda bummed to hear that clubs are still mandating tip outs. Like, wtf, am I actually becoming a law nazi?! Lol
Non-tipped employee's should stay that way. Tip money is always for the worker. Think about restaurants: even when there is a tip sharing structure, all servers share their tips. You can't just toss in managers and cooks too?!
Alas, the whole debate about clubs being perpetually exploitative is always gonna be there. And perhaps I am a dreamer.
As for your statement Twentyfive, an employee own/ran club is a bucket list of mine, so I can keep ya updated. I don't plan on making a fortune, if I ever own a club, because no one comes to pay the owner. They want to get services from dancers...so the dancers can make the fortune. If strippers were not at the club stripping, I don't think there would be a strip club?? ;)
@Harmony I’m a retired business owner having sold out in the last few months, so what is important to me is simple it’s ROI plain and simple, if I didn’t make the original investment you’d not have had anyplace to ply your trade, so if I’ve made it possible for you to earn I’m entitled to a ROI on my money, don’t have any interest in treating anyone unfairly, but sometimes the demands of running a business must take precedence over your wishes that my opinion fwiw
@HarmonySlinks For sure, I’d definitely recommend traveling if you can. A club can be amazing but one change in xyz can make it go to crap. It’s good to have backups to know where to turn to. 😁 I do believe there’s a very good chance that a lot of employee stuff will end up happening eventually nationwide, and that will be interesting when it happens. At that point, Ill probably have one home club I pop into 2-4 times a month, or I end up quitting entirely.
Having dancers become employees in Massachusetts ruined the clubs. Prices went up huge, and by that I mean 30%. Add in no drink specials due to Massachusetts law and the clubs suck in Massachusetts. Businesses won't be paying the dancers their new "rates"; it will be the fast disappearing customers. Also means that dancers have to work a set schedule and can be fired for not adhering to it. Dancers who upcharge in violation of club mandated pricing can also be fired. Independent contractors have schedule and monetary flexibility and employees do not. Being an employee isn't like being a better paid, with more benefits, IC. Just my two cents regarding a soon to be former hobby.
I wasnt aware mass strippers were on employee status. I know Rick's Minneapolis was employee status and I think they did that to fuck me out of more money, quite frankly. But the schedule was a joke. I basically did whatever the fuck I wanted to scheduling wise. They never fired girls for doing whatever they want scheduling wise. They ask you to schedule but they don't hold you to it at all. No fines. The $180 house fee was insane but u got back $55 cash instantly so more like $125. I think the employee status bs was mostly done to fuck you out of room money. Cuz like sell an hr $600 cash keep$500. Sell it card and it is $650 and you kept what like $230ish I dont fucking remember. But then some went to ur taxes. But still that was some bs. It was against the rules to encourage customers to spend cash but hey yolo. I like cash money and bigger cuts 🤷🏼♀️ I kept the full $20 on floor dances as well and pretty easy to keep those 1 way contact.
Sounds like Cali uses employee status as an excuse to fuck dancers even more. Like they dont keep their floor dance money nor private room money no matter if cash or card.
Idk much about these other employee status places.
If they run them like Rick's Minneapolis I am fine with it. Otherwise that cali shit I am uncertain of.
I dont really ger why clubs go out of their way to fuck us. As IC they treat us as employees in parts especially that shit hole portland, or. With zero of the bennies of employees. But then places that do employee status dont actually offer a wage. You make your own wage they pay back and tax and take a bigger cut of ur money. And no insurance no 401k match no clothing allowances like "real jobs".
And I am aware it probably wont get better as this is a declining industry.
Not a lot of places you can really make money in this biz without being a zoo animal in a petting zoo.
Here's my take on it all...
Clubs want to keep IC status because that rids them of any responsibility and puts it all on the dancer. I would be fine with this, if all clubs truly treated dancers independently. Unfortunately, house fee's, schedule requirements, no freedom to set our own prices, etc... that is not a true independent contractor. I see their reasoning in wanting IC status.. clubs would likely run amok if they allowed true independence of our work. But they must treat us true to the status because freedom is the sole benefit of being IC.
On the other hand, when litigation started to get hot, the club owners got pissed about being forced to be genuine to the law and punished the dancers. The club owners have been comfy for decades, they don't want that change. Dancers have become too willing to accept the mistreatment and call it a standard to working in a "risky" "unorthodox" industry. It doesn't need to be that way. It can be fair. The owners just need to give up either their control of our work, or not make a fortune off our backs.
^I wasn’t favored, but wasn’t targeted in any way. As far as daytime goes back in the day, one manager liked me quite a bit and another one I get the impression he didn’t like me too much. This was all three years ago though.
But then again, that was mostly during nighttime I’d do that. I wasn’t very motivated to leave during 4-6pm because that was a pretty good time of day to be at the club. At least it was that way at that time.
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