Quarterback Debate...

I would put Phillip Rivers on the same level as Big Ben in being a great QB but without the supporting team around him. They are among the best of their era but not all-time.

Dalton and Stafford would be on the the next level down as good but not great QBs.

In my mind none of those guys could be considered on the truly all-time elite level of Montana, Brady, Johnny Unitas, etc. The only guys out there right now that have a legit argument for "all-time elite" level are Brees and Rogers. (With Brady there is no argument, he is "all-time elite" and imho the GOAT)

Let’s not forget after around 2003 or so I forget the exact date but cornerbacks used to be able to abuse receivers after 5 yards. They really cracked down on that and now you see all these crazy QB stats now. Five best QB’s all time were in no order Manning, Brady, Marino, Montana, Brees imo. Then you go from there.

Phillip Rivers played on some good teams, but he's not as good as the 3 listed by the OP. Philip Rivers was better than Eli Manning, but Eli was a different QB in the playoff during the Giants 2 title runs. Stafford and Dalton are not even on Phillip Rivers level!

If any quarterback deserves the plagued by their surroundings award, I'd nominate Dan Marino in that category, he had great stats consistently, but never won anything with the Dolphins. He lost in his only appearance in the super bowl to none other than Joe Montana

to prove your point..... the cleveland browns are the gravel yard for QBs

“Five best QB’s all time were in no order Manning, Brady, Marino, Montana, Brees imo.“

Good list, but Johnny Unitas deserves to be in that mix.

Dalton, Rivers, and Stanford choke in big games,

Don’t forget that the rules for PI in the last 5-10 years tremendously favor the QB. IMO Rogers is better than Brees and Elway was as good as Montana (if Elway was the 49ers QB would he have won 4 maybe, if Montana was on Denver would he have won 4 probably not.) And If Belicheck Brady combo never existed how many would Peyton have won? That said, Mahomes has a chance to be in the top 5, kid is special.

I may be biased, but I'll take our guy Russell Wilson over Dalton, Rivers, and Stafford. Those guys throw way too many picks.

Rivers was a great QB but not legendary. No where near top 10 of all time but he was a legit franchise QB.

Dalton always seemed league average, maybe a hair above. Stafford might have been more on a better team.

I think Rivers would've had a lot of success if he would have spent his career with the Patriots.

Impossible to compare today with even 25-30 years ago. Going back even further is nuts! Thinking of Sammy Baugh, Otto Graham, Norm Van Brocklin, Y.A. Tittle, Sid Luckman, etc. You get the picture.

Dan Fouts was better than rivers.

Back in the day, the typical NFL player had a non football job in the off season, smoked, drank too much, ate the wrong food, didn’t work out, didn’t take PEDs, got the most basic medical treatment following injury, and got minimal coaching.

What if the football stars of the 1950s had gotten all the advantages that modern players have ?

^ Hell you want to go that far back they wore leather helmets and played both sides of the ball. 🏈

It's Brady hands down. 6 Superbowl rings and countless playoff appearance.

And let me set the record straight on the notion that he has had great supporting talent year over year. He hasn't. Some years he literally carried the team on his back into the playoffs while throwing to scrubs nobody ever heard of having to learn to get the ball out in under 3 seconds because his line couldn't hold up. He made everyone around him better.

Oh, and Brady did all of that in a open air cold northeastern stadium, including plenty of games in snow, sleet and frigid conditions. Manning, who spent all his home games and a few road games each year playing in domes, often fell apart during the playoffs because he struggled to make adjustments for the elements, including the cold and the wind. It is the reason why Manning, who will no doubt make the HOF on the first ballot, can never be considered the GOAT.

Pats and Brady fan for life, but when Brady had all the weapons (he lost). Pats evolved into a dink and dunk offense because the strategy is less vulnerable to negative plays and Brady executed the dink and dunk quite precisely.

Phillip Rivers vs Dan Fouts, it's Dan Fouts everyday. For those that never saw Fouts play, Dan Marino reminded me of Dan Fouts.

I looked at the OP's thread as a discussion about Superbowl Quarterbacks with multiple rings. I view Bart Starr as the Brady/Montana of the 1960's

Yet Eli Manning owned Tom Brady and y’all don’t think Eli deserves the HOF

weei.radio.com

Pretty much sums up why he's not a hall of famer, and why very few of y'all think he is kind of suprising. Do i think he gets in, yes eventually. But if he is a hof'er better induct Julian Edelman too.

^That’s kind of a biased view, if you think about it Eli had I think 234 consecutive starts making him third on the list he was durable, an overlooked feature that was part of his game was he might not have been the showiest or won the most awards but he was tough and played a low error version at quarterback meaning tha other teams needed to beat him he very rarely beat himself unlike many of his contemporaries who would get behind and try to force plays when the weren’t available I’m not trying to say he was the best or the most skilled but he was a durable performer and mostly a positive to the Giants from 2004- 2019 and for that he deserves the HOF.

Eli Proved he could stick around a long time and was a career .500 qb. He lead the league in interceptions three times. He was never elite. He comes from football royalty and played in New York. He will probably get in, but shouldnt.

btw I dont think Edelman is a hall of famer, but its a fairly apt comparison if you think a player should get in off post season

Eli is HOF, everyone knows the Meadowlands was as tough as it gets with the swirly wind. 2 Rings. The end. Odds of him not making it are currently 18-1. Lol

===> "Eli Proved he could stick around a long time and was a career .500 qb. He lead the league in interceptions three times. He was never elite. He comes from football royalty and played in New York. He will probably get in, but shouldnt."

This IMHO. Yes he has two Superbowl rings, but he wasn't particularly great in either of those two games either with the exception of one well placed long bomb. I think it's fairer to say that Coughlin owned Belichik in both of those games. In any season in which he played, few if any would have put him in the top 5 QBs in the league. Idk if he gets in or not, but there are several more deserving QBs ahead of him in the line.

^ Yeah because he totally sucked in the Ice Bowl game against GB too. And that throw to Manningham was awful. He is probably 1c in Hof QB tier. And yes he was great in both of those super bowls considering Belicheat is a mastermind defensive schemer and probably taped them.

^ He's been a mediocre QB from a skills and stats standpoint every year he's been in the league. A QB is judged on his whole body of work, not a few of his better highlight moments.

Joe Flacco had a couple of spectacular throws in his Superbowl win. Is anyone trying to line him up for the HOF? Shoot Flacco has not only the same career QBR as Eli, but better per season stats in almost every category.

^Well in that case let’s put Trent Dilfer in the HoF. Eli wasn’t a one hit wonder. He was an above average Ironman QB in toughest of stadiums and brutal media city. NYG were also 11-1 and marching to a potential repeat before Plax shot himself. I’m not saying he is a Goat but he is HOF. Like Colin Cowherd said, you can’t tell the story of the NFL without the Pats dynasty and can’t tell that full story without Eli and Coughlin. He is part of the narrative, Rivers and Flacco (for comparison sake) are not. Relax nobody is taking away how badass Brady is.

Well IMHO Eli won two Superbowls against the GOAT, and he kicked your avatars butt, so he might be mediocre, you just don't like his body of work, but hey, beating Tom Terriffic and Bill Bellichick on any given Sunday is pretty difficult, on Superbowl it's a whole nother level.

Mark me as another thumbs down for Eli as HOF material. He will get in but overall stats say otherwise IMO. Only 4 pro bowls, 3 times led the league in INTs, 4 times in top 4 fumbles. The "rarely beats himself" statement sure doesn't ring true in my ears.

I know he never won a super bowl but Fran Tarkenton made it there multiple times and had all the passing records at one time. That certainly doesn’t make him the GOAT but I think he belongs in the conversation of the top QBs of all time.

I started watching NFL-games in the early-80s - I've seen some great QBs - but no one blew me away as much as Dan Marino in his prime - he was kinda like the Michael Jordan of QBs at the time putting up #s that were unthinkable at the time.

I watched Brady in the stadium during his entire college career. While initially not impressed with his athletics I was completely impressed with his presence of mind and decision making. At U of M He reminded me of Brian Greasy except an even better sense of the game. I am biased on this one but but TB has to be in the short list. I am in an awkward spot where I agree with Rick Dugan.

Answering the original question, I think Stafford and Rivers would've been more likely to have success in different situations. Stafford in particular has arm talent that Dalton could only dream of. Rivers was on some good Charger teams, though. They went 14-2 one year (06, I think) and got rid of Marty after a playoff loss. Even considering his troubles with AJ Smith, that was crazy.

Since he's in half the comments, Eli....does he deserve HoF? No. He's never been that great of a QB, he has the most INTs in league history (if I recall correctly) and his two 'signature performances' were a 17-point effort against a middling defense and a 21-point effort against an awful one. I'm almost positive he didn't hit the average numbers the Pats gave up in the second game.

Now, will he make HoF? That's guaranteed, unless the football voters go through a sabermetric revolution in the next four years. He has two rings, his last name is Manning, and he played for a New York team. That's a wrap with a bow on it.

As far as GOATs, Brady obviously has it on resume....but if I need one QB to win one game, give me the guy who wore number 7 for the Broncos.

There are a good # of players in the HoF that did not have gaudy #s but had significant accomplishments and/or had the good fortune of being on very-good teams that increased their profile