Fatties

I disagree with the premise that there are a lot of "plump" dancers. I do notice a lot of fat people at Walmart. But not at most strip clubs. I think FONDL is right that the low income folks who depend on Walmart also have poor eating habits and perhaps low self-esteem, which leads to overeating which leads to .... But in the strip clubs I enter, I seldom see a really fat person. There are exceptions of course. I remember a couple of years ago I was shocked by the two fat women dancing in the Skylight Club in Valentine Neb. A rare exception. Of course different people may disagree on the exact meaning of "fat". Maybe my standards are too low.

Correction to last post: when I said I seldom see a really fat person in a strip club I meant to say I seldom see a really fat DANCER in a strip club. Big difference! Plenty of fat guys!

FONDL: Sorry to disagree with you man, but I don't see many plump dancers either. Maybe it depends on what part of the country you're from? I actually see more dancers that I would consider to be TOO SKINNY. Maybe that's just a personal preference. Granted, I do see a handful of dancers at my regular clubs that are bigger than the rest of the girls, but I certainly don't see anymore now than I did 20-25 years ago when I first started going to clubs.

Having said that, I do totally agree with your premise that the bigger girls typically are from a lower socio-economic background. I think bigger people, in general, make less money than thinner people. So rather taking at job in fast food or Wal-Mart for $6 per hour, they give stripping a try, until they find they don't do as well as the thinner girls.

FONDL: I don't buy it. I am 5'101/2" and weigh 150 lbs. In my 65 years I have never weighed more than 160lbs. 5 or so years ago, I did have a problem with cholesterol. That was cured by avoiding fast food and salted sunflower seeds. I don't really watch it but I don't eat at fast foods as much as I did then. At work, I see a lot of fatties. Both men and women and this is not a low paying job. Every time I see a fat chick I have to wonder if she knows why nobody wants to fuck her? I don't think that the fat girls or guys really care enough about themselves to do what is necessary to slim down. I do know that my favorite club has a new, no hire policy for over weight dancers and that some of the girls have been told to lose some lbs or find another place to dance. This of course comes from 200 lb managers. The acceptance of fat in guys is in porportion to how fat their wallett is.

I do see fatter dancers now, than ten or fifteen years ago (gosh! have I been strip-clubbing THAT long?!).

First, to clear the air: I tend to prefer smaller women, but not thin or skinny. Short and more muscular is what I like.

But second, I think in general across the country, the "approved" stripper body type has tended upwards in softness and waggliness. I note many young women simply have "beer bellies" (and attendant sagging thighs, linebacker-sized shoulders, etc.) now. When I was in college in the 1980s, there might have been a few anorexics who were unreasonably skinny, but mostly, a girl in the 18-to-22 age range simply did NOT carry excess body fat. I believe this is a general demographic trend and we mongers simply notice it among strippers more often, but it's the case among young males, children, ugly females, the whole gamut, that Americans are quite a lot larger now than then.

I think at some of the more "upscale" places, stripclub managers can still select among the women whom they most think will please their customers, and they probably are still free to reject larger girls. Particularly if the customers are of a generation which had smaller girls when that group was in its prime. As is usually the case with gentlemen in stripclubs -- when we were young, girls were smaller. So managers have to try to follow suit with their currently young girls. That mandate can't be followed to a T in all locations, however, because clientele is not always haggard old farts like thee and me, and because the options among all the girls girls might simply preclude such selectivity.

In addition, I think the "ghetto ideal," as mediated by African-American style culture, and perpetrated by either light-skinned or dark-skinned people, includes a preference for larger women. Does this go hand-in-glove with the poverty-fat issue mentioned above, or is it independent?

I'm kind of grossed out by "large-ish" girls. I know that the notion is rather subjective -- how skinny is too skinny? how slim and slender is still "natural and girlish" as opposed to "hazarding eating disorders"? and how much "baby fat" is hot-looking, padded on all the right curves and joints? or is simply "male" looking, as it distends a swollen belly (which absolutely MAKES ME PUKE when I see it on a young girl) or bounces about on wider-than-muscular thighs?

But even allowing for natural subjectivity, I'm going to have to agree. We have more fatties stripping now, than I've ever experienced before. I simply reject (mentally) their "right" to grace the stage, if they're so unattractively large that no average male would find them appealing. But I have to deal with such eye-invasive sights more often than I would want, and much more often than I used to.

FONDL: No, I don't think poor people find fatties any less unattractive than the rest of us do. They aren't fat because they want to be. Exactly why is hard to say for sure, but I don't think a lack of self-discipline can always be ruled out. However, before rich people get too pleased with themselves for being relatively slim, they might reflect upon all the profits that have been made from marketing ever more fattening, unhealthy food to children and the poor. Few of us are blameless.

Arbeeguy: There are a lot of clubs out there where you can count on seeing a few fatties at any given time. And at more than a few dives,e that's practically all you see. Most any town with a number of clubs has at least one like that. I'd say you must be lucky in the club you go to, except I see where you posted in another thread about the Chameleon in E. St. Louis. Have you ever been in there without seeing at least a couple of fatsos working? And next door, C-Mowe's before it burned down, was practically nothing but fat chicks.

As someone who has been going to strip clubs for many years I would have to say that I see more overweight girls now than in years past. I would attribute this to many of the factors mentioned before as well as to the increasing number of clubs. As the number of clubs has increased the supply pool of acceptable dancers has diminished. Since I too prefer the slimmer girls I don't do anything to encourage fat dancers. I try to avoid eye contact and never tip them on stage. Hopefully they will get the message and find other employment. If I am spending my money I want to spend it on something that appeals to me.

I have seen a dramatic increase in the number of large or should I say bigger dancers. I think it goes along with national trends towards America being a bigger nation. I read an article the other day about some governor somewhere or a politician doing a political stunt seeing if he could survive on something like $31 a week for the average in weekly food stamps. He quickly went over the limit. However the editorial went on to say that is not looking at all the information. The poor also get a tax credit. Also there is medicare, extra subsidies and other programs to help the poor out. I forgot the details. The schools also offer breakfast and lunch full of high fat foods and high calorie soft drinks. More people die of obesity in this country than of starvation.

Meanwhile the college educated and richer folks have easy access to better nutritional information via the internet and other means and are more likely to know about the benefits of exercise and have the time to do so in my opinion. I'm not working all day doing 2 jobs but I heard about some people on minimum wage doing so. I don't recall seeing a fat 2 job person though. I'm not trying to say strippers come from poor walks of life but I believe the poor may have a more difficult time eating nutritional food and exercising well.

I enjoy seeing fit dancers in the clubs. However a little bit of fat doesn't gross me out. It's when I see a dancer that could easily pin down a 150 lb lightweight like shadowcat that grosses me out. If she's 190 or 200 lbs, I prefer to look away. I don't like paying money to enter a strip club and get grossed out.

Myself and others have made the point before that the increase in fuglies is often due to clubs coming to rely on stage fees for their proceeds. They'll put anybody on stage now who'll pay the fee. Since management has relinquished their function of screening out unfit talent, it's been left to us customers to hand them their pink slip in effect by not tipping or encouraging them.

I do believe I've seen an increase in fat percentage in the average dancer, but I don't think there's been a massive influx of fatties into the stripper populace (unless you want to include the Furnace in B'ham). Maybe that the golden age of strip clubs are over except for a few pockets in the country. I think there's a number of external pressures in effect here:
1. Companies just aren't spending $$$ in clubs like they used to or fewer companies are doing this.
2. Local governments are cracking down on clubs or are passing excessively strict legislation.
3. Women aren't making the money they used to...so recruitment is down.
Damn depressing. I think I'll down a couple of ice cream sandwiches to ease the pain.

I lean a bit towards FONDL's thought. I'm not saying I agree completely, but there is some validity to his statements.

To me, it always seems the same as it always was. To me, they haven't hired any more or less fatties than they ever have. But sometimes, you see a girl for the first time and you realize how fat she is and wonder why the hell they hired her and who would want to see her naked. However, fatties don't bother me and some of my best times were with them, although I kinda wish they weren't for their health.

Let's first define what "large" is. Like I previously said, I see very few overweight dancers -- but perhaps there is trend towards larger girls. Not fat -- just girls that are taller and bigger: maybe 150-160 pounds.

And I like Book Guy's comments about softer girls. But, I like that look. Nothing wrong with a little baby fat and a jiggly butt.

Why are there more fat dancers now than there where five or ten years ago? The reasons are based simple economics.

1:The clubs want as many house fees as they can get so they hire as many dancers as they can get.

2:The plump ladies can make "better than Walmart" money pretty easily-even a hundred bucks a day is much better than minimum wage.

3:A dancer generates revenue for the club just by showing up-house fee, she buys drinks or food, customers buy her drinks or food, she tips-out other club employees who derive most of their salary from tips.

These factors have all combined to create a "perfect storm" in the clubs where just about any girl with the courage (internal, liquid, crystal or otherwise) can be a stripper...

A big reason that all clubs, not just dives, favor heavier girls than I prefer is that they tend to have bigger tits. I usually prefer smaller tits, but I guess most guys feel cheated if they go to a club and don't see a lot of huge melons, even if the body they're attached to is oversized.

Wow, less than 24 hours and already 17 replies! Guess I hit on a fat topic.

Actually I probably didn't state my thoughts very well since most of you seemed to have missed the point I was trying to make. I agree that you don't see any more really obese dancers than you used to. But that isn't what I was talking about. I think you do see more slighty chubby girls dancing in clubs than you used to, and I was wondering if maybe it's because the idea of what constitutes beauty is somewhat heavier in low income groups than among higher income people. That's all I was trying to say. I wasn't tryng to make any value judgments, I could care less how someone else chooses to live their life, I was just making an observation.

FONDL: I can't speak for the others, but I got your point and answered no, that the poor aren't attracted to fatties any more than other people are. As with any unpleasant sight, they're bound to become more numb to it, but I wouldn't go so far as to say their standard of beauty has shifted to accommodate the fatties among them.

I then moved on to related issues, as threads sometimes do. Perhaps titling your thread 'Fatties' and closing your original post with speculations about poor strippers encouraged the thread to go where it did.

Fatties have no business dancing in clubs... heck, this thread has no business being on the discussion board... the mere mention of the word is a buzzkiller... no fatties allowed!

DougS, I agree with you but obviously others here don't. Several people have mentioned that they prefer a little extra meat on the bone. I never have liked skinny - given the choice between 10 pounds too little or ten too much, I'd probably choose the latter. So I guess it all boils down to what we all mean "by a little extra."

My tastes have changed over time - I used to think Marilyn Monroe was perfect, but now I prefer a higher level of muscle tone and a lower body fat content. Times and tastes change. And different cultures have different ideals. Which is why I raised the question.

I prefer a woman who is "10 pounds this side of skinny." I think when I refer to "fatties," I mean a woman who is OUTSIDE of that 10-under-to-10-over range. I think a woman who is 50 pounds beyond an average weight for her height, or 50 pounds beyond her "ideal" height-to-weight ratio, should never be dancing. Yet she is. I see more women in the 50-and-beyond range now, than ever before.

FONDL: Given the choice of Marilyn Monroe or Paris Hilton, you would prefer Paris Hilton.....? No way.

We just went through a fat chic phase at work.. Now we are back to normal..
They seem to come and go in groups at our bar..
They always seem to make money though.. I think some guys are less intimidated by them, they are always friendly, and are not real sexual, or sexy... To some its an everyday girl.. As a dancer myself, I'll be mean and admit I really don't like seeing them on stage, its a turn off for me as a chic..although, the next morning I get up and work out more when we have a lot of fat girls.. I use them as motivation..

I personally doubt low income people hold fat girls up as the beauty standard, but low income people don't also have as many choices when it comes to picking up women as rich folk, either. They might want Paris Hilton, but Paris wouldn't want them, so they got to settle for something less than perfectly beautiful. I personally think there is something analagous to downward mobility at work there.

David, I can't image where you got the idea that I'd prefer Paris Hilton to Marilyn Monroe. I earlier said that Paris doesn't appeal to me at all. I also said I'd rather have a girl 10 pounds overweight to 10 pounds underweight. I still think Marilyn was nearly perfect. If she had followed the kind of exercise regimen that today's stars all do (which they didn't do in those days) she would have been perfect.

Fondl, sorry...I read your comment wrong. I thought you preferred underweight to overweight. We're in agreement.

David, I'm not really that fussy about weight. As long as nothing sags or hangs out I'm usually OK with a few extra pounds. And I also note that my comment about not much liking Paris is on another thread, so it's my fault if you missed it.

Fat women have (or appear to have, at least) APPETITE. Appetite for men, appetite for life, appetite for food. This appeals to some people simply because of the lusty, hail-gal-well-met air. But it also causes them to (likely) be more aggressive, pro-active about getting things they might want. (One of the things that makes some skinny girls skinny is, that they're easily bored with eating. They just ... don't bother.) So, fatties approach more customers.

Book Guy, very good point. If I think about it, the bigger ladies are indeed usually more aggressive than the thinner gals. If we could just combine their attitude with the bodies of the thinner dancers.....

Fondl: your point about Chameleon Club (and C-Mowes next door, before it burned down) is completely valid. You are right, I have never been in Chameleon without seeing one or more fatties. And I don't mean pleasingly plump, I mean FAT. Now another consideration is, is Chameleon actually a strip club? No, even though it's listed on TUSCL. I don't think I've ever seen a girl take of a single article of clothing at Chameleon. Not in the front room that is....

That was me, not FONDL, who made the point about Chameleon and C-Mowes.

Book Guy: Most thin women I know don't have any shortage of appetite, and don't starve themselves for their figure. They just stop eating when they're full, and keep active. And then, some of them eat anything they want and never exercise, they're just blessed with a different metabolism. I was like that until it began to catch up with me in my early 40s.

Fat women appear to go beyond an appetite for food to having an obsession with eating as an escape from their problems, boredom, whatever. I don't associate that with lustiness or a go-getter attitude. More like sadness and a victim mentality.

And no thanks to combining fatties' attitudes with thinner girls' bodies. I find that fatties tend to have a sour disposition, and I like thin girls the way they are. That that's because I'm telling the former to buzz off and the latter yes please is a possible explanation.

Chandler: Indeed, I agree with your generalizations more than I agree with the ones I listed. In fact, though I didn't make it clear (bad writing! sorry!), I was simply reporting what some other people seem to be thinking, when they prefer fatties over (what I consider) attractive women.

And no, I don't think the reason you perceive fatties to have sour dispositions is merely because you're generally in the act of rejecting them. :) Funny thought, though. But seriously, I do agree, fatties quite often have a "sour" or "pouty" outlook on life. The girls who are confident that many a potential male might find them attractive, are much more comfortable being healthy about taking a rejection and moving on, or even about realizing a single guy might not want to spend a lot of money but NOT BOTHERING to move on unless he wants her to. The "desperation" view of life, to me, is more common to the fattie mentality than to the confident-and-attractive mentality.

But then, there are the "ghetto" girls who are self-confident, larger than I prefer, and also quite lusty about life. These ladies tend to have large backsides, and tend to engage in loud, blustery behavior. I find them very hard to cope with, partly because their aggression gets up in my face and because they often refuse to take a "no" from me at all; but also partly because, even if I do a good job of fending them off, their presence kind of "annoys" my antennae. I just get, kind of, frazzled by their hilarity and violent outbursts. I like a girl with a bit of demure to her demeanor. "Shy" or "mopey" or "sad" goes too far; but way too proud of herself "cuz BAYBEE GOT SOME BACK!!" goes too far in the opposite direction.

I think what you eat has a lot more to do with it than how much. IME most really heavy people have a diet that includes a lot of simple carbs (eg. baked goods, sugar) and high fat foods, where lean people rely much more on fruits, veggies and lean meats. Their extra weight then makes it more difficult and painful to exercise, so fat people are less active. The two - poor eating habits and less activity - compliment each other in a vicious cycle.

I think the reason some heavier girls do OK in clubs is that a lot of customers rightly or wrongly assume that the fat girl will do more. And they'd rather get more from the fat girl than get less from the thinner one.

It's both what you eat and how much. Junk food is designed to make you eat too much of it without thinking. It's harder to pig out on salmon and broccoli. You're right, that junk TV and junk food create a vicious cycle. I would love to see a regulation that required TV food ads to use actors whose bodies were typical of their biggest customers instead of, e.g., showing thin, attractive people in McDonald's ads. They'd also be required to show them in typical settings, i.e. zoned out in front of a TV's blue glow, instead of the phony "active" settings in ad montages. No more kids on skateboards saying to the camera, "Check out my cool action snack!"

Chandler, I agree that junk food and TV are two major reasons why Americans are getting fatter. Plus the excess sugar that's added to nearly everything. And as a result type II diabetes, which used to be almost exclusively an old people's disease, is probably the fastest growing serious illness in the country. I think it's really sad.

But how did you know that my favorite meal was salmon and broccoli? Along with some wine of course.

I once saw an interesting statistic (on the internet somewhere, of course!) that the history of Americans' use of refined white sugar is in exactly direct 1:1 proportion to our obesity.

FONDL: I like salmon and broccoliI, too. Especially grilled outdoors and fresh steamed, respectively. But I just picked the two healthiest foods I could think of.

And not to get all Book Guy on you, but I trace this country's obesity crisis to our culture's deep-rooted lack of respect for good food and the pleasures of life in general. Technology and modern marketing have amplified our weakness to the point of the grotesque. Sadly, the crisis is spreading to other countries now, too.

Yeah, there's something just too "all Book Guy on you" about those comments. :)

I read somewhere that Americans think of food as fuel, to be tanked up on regularly, while the French think of it as an occasion for a political discussion. If the free-market economy does have a weakness, it's in its cultural failure to adopt a utility for the concept of "enough." Maybe that translates to our attitudes about food.

I knew you'd appreciate that, Book Guy.

Chandler, I translate your "Book Guy" comments to mean that too many people are in too much of a hurry and don't take time to smell the roses. I agree completely. What I don't understand is why? How did so many people get to be like that? I think it's really sad.

Seems like an awful lot of people have lost the ability to relax. Even vacations become occasions to cram as much activity as possible into the time allotted.

I also think technology (or rather the misuse thereof) is a major contributing factor of obesity. Two examples: kids playing with computers instead of playing outside; riding lawnmowers. Many years ago I bought a riding lawnmower and proceeded to gain 10 pounds over the next couple of years. It then had mechanical problems but instead of fixing thme I bought a cheap mower that I had to push, and in a couple more years I was back to my earlier weight. The way I figure it, if I have to mow the lawn anyway I might as well get some benefit from it.

FONDL: Yes, that's part of it. More broadly, it's a cultural distrust of anything that doesn't have an obvious practical or commercial benefit. It shows in the way we isolate and treat the arts, old buildings and old people. Other cultures may have similar tendencies, but our power and resources amplify it. Even when we try to address problems like poor diet, we miss the point and go about it ham-fistedly. Take out the "bad" ingredients, replace them with flavorless substitutes and slap on a Healthy Choice label, rather than take the time to enjoy the real thing in moderation. I like Book Guy's point about the concept of "enough". Someday, they'll come out with microwaveable salmon and broccoli on a stick to save you the bother of sitting down and enjoying it.

Chandler, I often get my salmon and broccoli at an Outback Steakhouse. Their salmon is wonderful (you can also get it at Carrabba's, which is owned by Outback.) And here's a tip from my ATF - Outback only lists mixed veggies on the menu but if you ask for just broccoli (or any of the other veggies in the mix) they will give it to you. My ATF used to waitress at Outback.

And I agree that packaged foods aren't very good for you regardless of whose name is on the label. But I also think exercise is key - if you sit at a desk all day you need to be much more careful of what you eat, especially how much saturated fat, than someone who gets lots of exercise every day.

I went to a ghetto-style all-African-American club last week (see review, "Passions" in NOLa). There were a lot of women who, were they white girls or, at least, catering to traditional middle-class white patrons, would be considered unreasonably obese, unattractively so. Something about their body structure and posture, however, and their youth and demeanor perhaps?, made them seem more attractive to me. Transplant one of those ghetto-girls into a mainstream suburban white-culture club and she's instantly hideous; but there, she was fun and booty-licious.

Hmm ... I think the only lesson is, since I'm a guy, I'll screw just about anything female. :P

There may well be positive correlation between low socioeconomic status, and tendency to eat fast/junk food, and thus be obese. I recall reading an article about which cities had most & fewest obese population- Houston was high( interesting in highly stripclub rated city), Seattle was low- I guess milder climate makes 1 more inclined to bike & jog, less inclined to sit in air conditioned place & drink beer. Complex array of factors- I'm not going too deep into them, time to tear myself away from computer, and go for a jog.

Minnow, I've recently changed my jogging habits. Recent studies have shown that running intervals (alternating aprinting and jogging) burns a lot more fat than going fo a long jog. So I've shortened my distance and added a half dozen or so sprints throughout. I don't know if it's helping but it's kinda fun and takes less time. It's also hard as hell. Try it, you might like it.

Aaaaghgh I gotta get back into exercising ...

shadowcat wrote:
FONDL: I don't buy it. I am 5'101/2" and weigh 150 lbs. In my 65 years I have never weighed more than 160lbs. 5 or so years ago, I did have a problem with cholesterol.



I'm 5'4 and almost 200 lbs (yes I'm fat). When I was in extremely fit physical condition I weighed 175 lbs. I suffered a serious illness requiring a stay in the hospital for almost a month. I shrunk down to just over 150 lbs. You could see my ribs as if I'd been starving. In a way I had been starving because I felt to sick to eat.

Reading about guys who are taller than me and who weigh 150 lbs leaves me thinking what?! Anyway, I prefer women who weigh between 100 - 110 lbs and who are short. At the ghetto clubs I've been to fat is definitely seen as a good thing. An in shape black dancer who doesn't get much action in a ghetto club would probably be printing money in a club where there are lots of white customers. In fact, some hotties tell me they are trying to add weight to be more attractive like so and so who looks like a small whale at 300+ lbs.

FONDL: any help on that interval stuff for a guy who has exercise-induced asthma? The sprint part can just short-circuit the WHOLE workout for me. I might (or might not) have the endurance to do a given interval / distance / speed, but sometimes I just have to stop because of the OTHER factor, that the asthma has kicked in and all breathing has ceased. See what I mean? It's kind of like a faulty circuit-breaker -- though the line could handle 120 volts, at 89 volts the breaker flips, thus preventing anything from 90 to 119 from ever being attempted that day.

Its a touchy thing. Myself I am black and yes I have worked in a club. Funny story, I am 5'3", my measurements are 34-27-40ish, and I weigh 150lbs(yeah I'm the classic small waist but bootilicious). I have a lot of muscle mass because I do lift weights. I have never worked in a black club, but I have worked @ the Furnace and Charlies in Bham, AL. I have never had a prob making money and have been admired for having a smokin bod and personality (hell the bulk of my regs are/were older white guys whom i still have contact with). However, I tried to work @ Sammys and the day mgr told me i needed to lose 15lbs and come back and audition again, although I was a great dancer. It was funny to me cuz my abs were tighter than some of the dancers I saw there. So obviously some clubs prefer skinny-fat girls (skinny girls with pot bellies) than girls with a full booty on them. It made me laugh cuz I'm like dude the Furnace has way harder standards, better clientelle, and a better club than Sammys and they thought I was adorable. I dunno, what do u think?

By the way, I do have pics for the nay-sayers.

BookGuy, I don't know all that much about asthma. But it's my impression that a hot-wet climate like you live in is bad, so maybe you need to do your exercising in a climate-controlled gym. Or move to Arizona.

Incidently, I just finished reading a wonderful book entitled "Younger Next Year" by Chris Crowley and Henry Lodge, MD. I strongly recommend anyone who has any interest whatever in their health (and those who don't) to read this book. It's all about the strong link between lifestyle and aging. A sample quote: "Some 70 percent of premature death and aging is lifestyle-related... If we had the will to do it, we could eliminate more tha half of all disease in men and women over fifty. Not delay it, eliminate it."

Fxxychick, I don't think any one here can comment meaningfully on your situation without knowing a whole lot more about it. There are a large number of reasons why someone does or doesn't get hired. Your appearance is just one of them.