Vocels (Voluntary Celibates)

> Does one have to be part of the herd to get laid, when in college?

imo, no. You can just interact with the ladies on an individual level, but you need some social proof, like being in college

Well you can read this:
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

As I see it, the problem is worse at the more elite schools. In such, the average age is lower, the students tend to come from rich families, and few of them have jobs.

So it is very conformist and culturally narrow.

So Elliot Rodger was at UC.

This problem is less so at CSU, higher average age, people tend not to be rich, more have at least a part time job.

And then even more so at our Community Colleges.

ppwh wrote, "You can just interact with the ladies on an individual level, but you need some social proof, like being in college"

Well, it is not so individual when it is totally conformist. And what is being said now is at the elite colleges, the women don't want BF's, dates, or marriage prospects. All they want are some hook ups, and they are in charge of that as they are the aggressors.

"you need some social proof, like being in college", not sure what ppwh means. On the campus, you are in college, but if you are not part of the herd, good luck.

Off campus, you will still tend to be seen as nothing, less than an adult, unless you have a job. And usually, if you are in such a school, you will not really be interested on off campus people. Such schools are very competitive and demanding.

Right after the Elliot Rodger incident, I thought of the Katherine Newman book Rampage, where she analyzed the high school shootings. They were always in places of white suburban or exurban monoculture. In more diverse mixed race and income schools, there are enough niches that everyone can find a place.

So is UC, and in Southern California, like a white mono-culture high school, like Columbine Colorado?

I met a man who was a councilor of students at Fresno State. I explained all of this, and that if Rodger had been at CSU or a Community College, instead of UC, it probably would not have gone this way.

Part time job, interacting with more types of people, student body more diverse, more open, Elliot would have found his own way. Or some other kind of school, small arts school, another country, travel.

So if one wants to get the best possible education so that they can use their abilities, more interested in the education than in what the degree looks like on a resume, do they have to become a Vocel (Voluntary Celibate)?

Barbara Walters ( I can't stand this bitch ) interviewing Elliot Rodger's father Peter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnT0CMwB…

SJG

Non-sequitor. I swear you are an illogic bot

> Well, it is not so individual when it is totally conformist. And what is being said now is at the elite colleges, the women don't want BF's, dates, or marriage prospects. All they want are some hook ups, and they are in charge of that as they are the aggressors.

I believe that's where you're wrong. Sometimes a structured environment may help to get people together to test their compatibility.

The Other Organization

Elliot Rodger found UC intolerable. Others have washed out because of having a GF and spending too much time with them.

Lots of people I have seen in college washed out and having a job compounded it. But usually a job is a good way to be seen as more mature and to learn more about people, and to gain access to some other social realm.

Many programs at many schools are extremely competitive and the pressure is intense. And by many accounts, at such schools the women do not even want relationships. All they want are hook ups which they initiate. They do not want BF's.

So if you want the kind of education you should really have, what other choice is there than Vocel (Voluntary Celibacy).

SJG

ppwh writes, "Sometimes a structured environment may help to get people together to test their compatibility."

Like UC, it is not just structured, it is totally conformist because the people are young, rich, white, and they don't have outside jobs. Rodger was not like them. And actually, there are just a few spree shooters and just a few who write thesis length manifestos, but there are lots of lots of people who wash out of UC and other similar schools.

The wash out rate for the whole school might be 40%, and then for some inpacted departments it might be 60%.

The girls opt for voluntarily having no BF, just hook ups.

But if you are not really like the herd, and male, other than P4P women, is there any option besides Vocel (Voluntary Celibacy) ?

SJG

> But if you are not really like the herd, and male, other than P4P women, is there any option besides Vocel (Voluntary Celibacy) ?

yes, but it's tricky

I had some gf's and also lived like a monk dedicated to my engineering program. I don't see any correlation other than budgeting time and not losing focus on the key objectives. If you are just floating through school and don't have goals you are not a willing participant to begin with and any distraction, female or otherwise will send you easily off the rails.

> True, most people at my school just choose to drink the ABC stores dry.

Loosen up a little, man. You're all just there for social approval anyway.

Except the mathemeticians

and the e word

and don't even get me started about the Gender Studies majors...

dat ass dho

I personally could give two shits for social approval. Damn man people who become engineers are typically not very good with that anyways. Have you ever seen most of us introverts? The only approval that matters from the standpoint of social approval is acceptance that the degree means something and that it is a blanket "certification " you actually know your craft. That sorta helps when you are finding employment since the concept of guilds went out of favor quite some time ago. Education is real unless you would rather rediscover Newton's laws on your own.

...oh wait. I guess you did qualify mathematicians and the e word lol

Lawyers, Doctors, Economists,...not really looking for social approval too

> Lawyers, Doctors, Economists,...not really looking for social approval too

Do you have that on letterhead?

Lol. I suppose it looks good during introductions at the charity auctions...

I barely made it through high school to be honest

"Does one have to be part of the herd to get laid, when in college?"

That herd of goats was your best chance of getting laid in college.

“Except the mathemeticians

and the e word”

Euler? ;)

Uprightcitizen, DC9428, ppwh, Dominic77,

Lots of people in college are just basically floating through. It will be more so at UC, because most of the people are quite well off, and so they are young, and really just there because their parents sent them.

This is a good book, I read it when it first came out:

https://www.amazon.com/Careerism-Intelle…

It is based on a study done on the Stanford student body.

But unless someone thinks and talks in the way of the herd, then they will face rejections.

As far as celibacy, if they were working and outside of school, it is actually a more open world. But inside the school, attitudes are more narrow, more conformist. As one gets older it gets better, but the pressures on young adults to conform in their aspirations are extreme.

And so, beside the academic pressures and the high time demand, in one wants to complete there schooling, they may well have to adopt a strategy of Voluntary Celibacy.

Some school objectives will be welcomed by the herd, but others will not.

And then isn't that what a Bachelor's Degree originally meant anyway, that one would be celibate for their scholarship. I don't know if it is intended to be for life, probably just until they complete their schooling.

So it sounds like Elliot and his father picked Santa Barbara, just because of the large number of women, and maybe the weather, and the social strata it draws from, and its rep as a party school, it made Elliot think he would have great chances of getting a GF. But in fact, it is highly conformist, and so it is not really a good place for that.

So if one really wants to learn, Voluntary Celibacy may be called for.

SJG

Incels (Involuntary Celibates)
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Vocels (Voluntary Celibates)
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Elliot's Father Peter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnT0CMwB…

Their Twisted World: The Leaked Emails of Elliot Rodger (full documentary)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FLUzf9H…

E. I. Jury, stability, Z-transforms
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Baker Gurvitz Army
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cte9Bk_f…

Barbara Dennerlein (1984) - The lady is a tramp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bCO4jIA…

Wersi concert
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgZ_s-nq…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjqHhBTA…

Indiana University

Carmen, part 1, might only work on Mozilla
https://purl.dlib.indiana.edu/iudl/media…

part 2
https://media.dlib.indiana.edu/media_obj…

^^^^^ But at least to an extent, doesn't college press you to select that?

Now I don't know much about you, and about what you are studying. But suppose someone did not want to be part of the herd, and suppose they were studying something which did not get them much respect?

Doesn't getting sex in college, a closed little world, mean complying with normative social expectations?

SJG

People stay in college for some time, but many people find it intolerable beyond a point. Isn't this your 'batshit crazy'.

One pseudo GF I had was talking about her room mate and that girl's BF and the girl dumping him because he spent most of his time in the Physics building.

Okay, but he is a Physics grad student, and he needs to be in lab areas. But she dumps him.

Outside of college things can be better.

But it will be my organization which will solve all of these problems.

SJG

This pressure to conform is far far higher if you are married. But that is another topic.

So yes, pressure to conform, if you want sex. And then both you and the women under lots of time pressure and stress. College is not a good place, and so the tendency is that you will accept Voluntary Celibacy.

Am I missing something?

Voluntary Celibacy is okay, because it is voluntary.

Would Elliot Rodger have done better some place else, and out in the work force in at least some way?

This is a very good book, and I spent lots of time reading it carefully:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/125956…

Seems to be necessary, when one suffers a major loss, like say in a divorce, they do need to reinvent themselves, and that means they have to reacess their lives. So I read it carefully.

Steinberg is too conservative for me, putting great confidence in the middle-class family. But he is still good.

Most people do select careers similar to what at least one parent did. I was surprised to read this, but I have considered it. I say it is true.

I could see Elliot Rodger as a documentary journalist, a guy who makes films, and actually being better at than his father is.

He could be doing that, and girls would be throwing themselves at him. But he would need to at least have one foot in the outside of college world.

Here we have a 'makeshift collective' for independent film makers. He could have been in that. But not if he was totally tied to the full time college world.

http://www.filmmakerscollaborative.org/

As such, being in that full time college world, having to in large measure accept Voluntary Celibacy.

Myself, separating from the super horny off campus GF, and then being left with the totally infuriating college girls only, I was selecting Voluntary Celibacy. I wanted to continue to put serious time into my school work.

But for how long would I be willing to live as such, and to what real ends?

SJG

So, what are the reasons a young man in college might find it desirable to take voluntary vows of celibacy and poverty?

1. In college, he is under a great deal of time pressure, so any kind of intimate relationships will cause him problems.

2. The college women also under that same type of time pressure and stress. Many do not want relationships at all, only maybe hook ups.

3. A man in college may find that employment and his studies are incompatible. So he has to economize. He also then will often not be respected by young women. So he may be facing nothing but frustrations.

4. He is caught somewhere between adolescence and adulthood, and so engaging with women might just give him grief. He does not know how much better it can be once he gets out.

5. The women in college are often really elitist, and again, engaging with them might just bring him grief.

6. Those young men who have status in college are usually the highly conformist, frats, athletics, very normative ambitions and goals.

Conclusion, college can be a really sucky place, and sometimes it can go lethal. In any event, people need other ways to get their education and other ways to continue their education.

So in hand right now:

The Wiley Handbook On Violence In Education, ed Harvey Shapiro (2018)
Sec 1 Ch 4. Learning To Be A Rampage Shooter: The Case Of Elliot Rodger, by Ralph W. Larkin.

Larkin has previously written about Columbine, and about suburban youth issues.

SJG

OT: Assembler, C/C++, Embedded Systems, Machine Architectures, Development Systems, JTAG, Rust
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Branching off from an earlier thread

OT: Computer Programming
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

And also

OT: Programmable Logic Devices
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

OT: Power Semiconductors, recent books about
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Web Programming, HTML, CSS, and more
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Programable Hand Held Calculators
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…


Everything for Everyone: The Radical Tradition That Is Shaping the Next Economy,
by Nathan Schneider
https://www.amazon.com/Everything-Everyo…

Everything for everyone : the radical tradition that is shaping the next economy / Nathan Schneider. (2018)

Interview
https://www.democracynow.org/2018/9/18/t…

The Power of Cooperatives: Nathan Schneider & Jason Wiener at The Harvard Law Forum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCOyOzzu…

Antifa, the antifascist handbook
by Mark Bray
https://www.amazon.com/Antifa-Antifascis…

Antifa : the anti-fascist handbook / Mark Bray (2017)

Steve Jobs ' Most Inspiring Speech EVER ( facebook login required )
https://www.facebook.com/desientrepreneu…

I am glad that Steve Jobs was not being subjected to Motivational, Self-Improvement, or Financial Literacy teachers. If he was, then I am sure that he would have known that the best response, really the only response, is the middle-finger.

And some more great threads:

OT: Are Traditional Colleges and Universities Bad Environments?
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Incels (Involuntary Celibates)
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Vocels (Voluntary Celibates)
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

OT: Book Publishing Industry
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Alternative Educations
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

While being yourself in a profession isn't always possible , it certainly is to a greater extent than most ppl realize.l
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Stop holding doors for us if you don't want to talk about ending rape culture as much as wanna talk about other political issues
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

So What Do Women Like To Read?
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

BAKER GURVITZ ARMY - Live 1975
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7GXbGPN…

studio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cte9Bk_f…

Responses and inline quotes from "Incels" thread (off topic there, on topic here).
See, - https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Wow, cool. More to come. More to write. Responses thus far:

@DC9428, I will have to admit that I may be behind the times on how young people communicate. You are in a better position to know what works best for you and the young ladies where you are. I will admit that much of the joy of using the telephone has been poisoned by telemarketers, scam artists, robocallers, and the dreaded unknown number. And texting does respect the other’s time better.

I can’t tell you how to conduct yourself with the extreme binge drinking of the college crowd. I know how I approached it. Once or twice I would indulge as they would to wrecked excess. It was more as a bonding experience. But any other time, I would politely, and firmly stick to my guns. Your environment sounds worse than when I was an undergrad, though.

I think in college, what you have it a bunch of people who are all used to “being the best.” Now in college they are no longer the best. So they compete to excess. The peer pressure will be extreme.

I understand you were the cool guy in H.S. But I’d still keep “doing you.” You may not be the cool guy to “the herd.” But a few girls (or guys) will notice. Like what they see. And that’s all you need.

Drinking to excess (binge) kills brain cells and strains your organs. Long term this will be a negative. You are smart to realize this is not for you. Remember alcohol is a poison (oh do I so love it). InTOXICation. It messed with your metabolism, digestion, and provides empty calories. For me, once I start alcohol, I am done with food for the day. These days 1-2 drinks are my norm and 2-3 is a lot for me. I am sure you are chuckling at this counts compared to your or that of your binge drinking peers.

Do not worry about fitting into the herd. I find doing me is the best. Think of Edward Norton in the move American History X. The scene where he is in the prison yard and “needs to send up a flag” to find like minded individuals. Where he removes his shirt, exposing his swastika tattoo, then benchpresses in front of the gang members. I do me, sometimes counter culture to the herd, then see who responds to me. I can usually find my niche that way. Though what you do it up to you. I can only tell you how I handled it. I don’t know what a modern Gen Z person goes through in an elite college these days.


@DC9428 posted:
“I guess I just don't find the idea of being with a ton of different girls very enticing anymore. Maybe a few different girls but I care much more about the frequency and quality of the sex and the amount of time I get to spend having fun with a sexy girl.”

I agree with this. I have often joked on here (Tuscl) that I don’t see the point of paying dancers for sex. To me, that would be just like having sex with my wife with a different color wig on. I would rather explore more sex sessions with one person (frequency and quality) as you write.


@SJG posted:
“But remember, and this is one of my main themes, that DC is not employed outside, he is a college student … And employment might work against his studies.”

OK, I shouldn’t have just made the assumption that he would need a current job to fund his strip club visits and self-reporting spending budgets. There are other ways he could have money for that.

As I see it, the issue with college is:

1. Lots of stress and pressure, often incompatible with employment.

2. Women also under same sorts of stress and pressure.

So often a guy will not be considered an adult without that employment. It is rather a narrow sort of guy who is liked by the women. A much more restrictive situation than one would be in if they were outside college and employed.

On the other hand though, often even less support for intellectual pursuits in the work place culture, than in college.

Overall, No Good!

Guy in college ends up accepting Voluntary Celibacy. Accepts frustration of dealing with the college girls, instead of the extremely horney outside GF.

FWIW, the organization I am building resolves all of these dilemmas at core.

SJG

Elliot Rodger Manifesto, My Twisted World, 11 hours, human voice reading
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60WCF3WB…

baker gurvitz army elysian encounter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0-DUyaY…

Baker Gurvitz Army
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_Gurv…

Adrian Gurvitz
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Gur…

WARNING - The following accounts are considered to be forum trolls and may not be trustworthy:

san_jose_guy - commonly referred to as SJG this forum member is usually mocked or ignored, his comments should NOT be taken in any way as legitimate

I think the biggest problem with college is a lack of viable employment for graduates. i remember reading that college is a way to artificially lower unemployment rates and make young people rake up debts

"I think the biggest problem with college is a lack of viable employment for graduates."

Very true, and most end up underemployed.

"i remember reading that college is a way to artificially lower unemployment rates and make young people rake up debts"

Very true, on both counts. Delays the need to find them jobs, and also gets them mortgaged into the system.

My point also though is that it traps a man in a place where he is not really seen as an adult, and dealing with the college girls in infuriating. But likely the guy does not have enough life experience to know that something is wrong.

FWIW, my organization will solve all of these problems.

SJG

I agree with the arguments against college on here- but I'd probably do it just in case to open more options. Eventually. I'm not in a hurry. There's also plenty of regular jobs w/ no need for college that pay bills and then some.

I have not argued against going to college. I am just saying that there are serious problems with it.

Overall I think everyone should get as much education as possible. It may open more options, but more importantly, it gives you a greater perspective from which to live.

And then to get such an education, it really needs to be a life long process.

And of conventional college, there are serious limitations to it, and costs which go way beyond money.

FWIW, my organization will never discourage anyone going to conventional college. Quite the contrary, we will offer them support in a variety of forms.

But we also want people to have a life long continuing education. And then beyond a point, most people would not be willing to sit in class and follow a school's schedule. They want to be self-directed.

And then for many, the costs really are prohibitive, and often their educational background is not one which would make conventional college work well.

I find Elliot Rodger interesting because he found college intolerable. My thesis is that this is being compounded by the socio-economic narrowness of UC, and that it is not like this at CSU or Community Colleges.

SJG

College is a place where people are subjected to such peer pressure and denigrated if they don't go along with it. This is a problem with college.

Out in the working world, there is no such pressure at all. One does not have to engage with peer culture at all.

Sex Yes!

Drugs and Alcohol No!

My reckless pleasures:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/YUhzdQMQ0I4/maxre…

SJG

People may develop tolerances to things like alcohol and drugs. But really this just means that they are able to appear to function well, to compensate. The chemical still effects them.

They study this all the time about alcohol and driving. The experienced drunk learns to make more use of the speedometer, and to focus their attention. But their reaction time is still slowed the same. Tests show this. I've watched this being tested in movies all the time.

And then so the experienced intoxicant finds that they need higher and higher levels to get the same degree of tune out. Anyone who uses enough, will develop a dependency. And this is also true for marijuana.

And there are other ways of altering your consciousness, which do not depend upon chemicals in any way. This represents a higher state of spiritual development, when you do not need external chemicals.

And then with the tough driving laws, and me wanting to build a large organization and not wanting to deal with problems, it is going to be NO CHEMICALS. Otherwise some people would have problems.

It is not a rule to enforce, it is simply that no one gets beyond the entry level until they have decided that they are done with the chemicals, including psych meds, and done with Recovery, Christianity, and a lot of other stuff.

We all need those brain cells. We need to be able to concentrate and challenge ourselves to go beyond present limits.

And even with sex, chemicals degrades your capabilities at an earlier age.

People are using the chemicals for completely the wrong reasons.

SJG

There is no threshold below which you are not being permanently effected in a negative way.

SJG

my experience with college girls is limited but the ones ive known were annoying entitled bitches. i once had drunk college bitches outside a bar yell "hola amigo" and "hey are you a drug dealer" and their boyfriends laughed but then got scared shitless. that about sums up my experience with college students. that and bitches who think they can get anything they want by flashing their tits.

Problem is, for a male college student, he may not have access to any other women, and the way those college girls treat him might not be any better.

If Elliot Rodger had been elsewhere, might things have gone very well?

So is the college man of today being pressed into selecting Voluntary Celibacy?

SJG

^^^^^ So are you writing a manifesto and practicing at the firing range?

Or do you want to try and figure out some real solutions.

I survived college, but it was often a very dark place, and my survival did largely depend upon Voluntary Celibacy, protecting myself from the shit.

But how long can one be expected to live like that?

SJG

In the news a few years ago, Jesuit Santa Clara University.

They organized the South of the Border Party. Supposed to be traditional Mexican theme.

But students showed up, girl with over drawn lips and eyebrows, puckering. Another, 'Pregnant Home Girl", another with long rubber gloves for cleaning out toilets.

One Mexican American man said, "Hey, they were making fun of people like my parents."

Think such students are pleasant to deal with? Think the girls can be engaged with and that they won't shit on you? Think that they are really in school to learn anything?

SJG

my experience with college girls is limited but the ones ive known were annoying entitled bitches. i once had drunk college bitches outside a bar yell "hola amigo" and "hey are you a drug dealer" and their boyfriends laughed but then got scared shitless. that about sums up my experience with college students. that and bitches who think they can get anything they want by flashing their tits.

^ oh jeez. that just sounds so annoying. I also don't have a very good impression of boys around my age in college. They are the type of people that cause women to go voluntary celibate in my opinion. Just o hell no i'm not touching that with a 20 foot pole LOL. Anyways, I don't think most college kids understand how life works or much of anything in general. There's some smart ones, but I'd have to guess they are the minority.

SJG - I am not entirely against college. I just think it costs a stupid amount of money for limited benefit to most people. I mean what the average 4 yr degree pays you can just take shortcuts like stripping or really any vanilla sales job if you wanna put in the WORK/EFFORT to reach a certain level. And also some blue collar people make 6 figures although at the expense of not being at a desk- which I guess a lot of people go to college so they don't have to do any physical work? idk. I just know I know a fair amount of people either in sales or the blue collar jobs making over 6 figures- so this is part of my lack of motivation to really go get a degree ASAP. I really don't give a fuck about paying for some education other than to open more options honestly. I think this is why most people go to school anyways?

oh wow SJG lol and you know what is nuts is these college kids are the first to do this social justice warrior shit and go on their anti racism anti oppression rants, but then they do all types of ignorant retarded shit lol

"Anyways, I don't think most college kids understand how life works or much of anything in general. "

And so that might make a guy find that the best choice is Voluntary Celibacy.

The idea that a college degree pays off in terms of job income has always been bullshit.

The degree is stupid. But that is what most of the students want.

But the education, an education, a real education, that is priceless. But you can't get it in just 4 years or 8 years, it has to be life long learning.

For those in a conventional college, they may find that they pretty much have to go with Voluntary Celibacy.

SJG

Oh- I wasn't trying to say the girls are any better in colleges. I've met some of these dumb fucking twats believe me.

Off topic- I never realized you were that young DC.

Okay yes, I'm beginning to see the voluntary celibacy argument for college now. Shit I'll probably do that whenever I go back to school unless I'm settled down. My love life is nearly non existant- something I had fell apart due to some issues on both sides but mostly me running off to go be a stripper lol. I don't regret anything though. Me and him still talk. Not really in a relationship but neither of us fucks around casually either. I've known this person many years before we ever dated as well- so I suppose that is why a small part of me still hangs on. And I think he does too. Last I saw him I got spoiled and no sex involved even.

Anyways I probably shouldn't share on a website like this lol.

I thought you might have been at least late 20s or like 30. I mean I can tell you were in the younger group here- just didn't know you were THAT young.

An early college GF for me, L.

1. Talks about poor people in the most denigrating of terms, like she sees them as subhuman.

2. Talks about her parents and their real estate largess, saying, "They worked hard for everything they have." She does not seem to understand that most people work hard, or want to. What she is really saying is that her parents accumulated huge wealth by profiting from divisions of labor.

3. Talks about some kind of strange parties when she was in high school. Won't talk about specifics but sounds like drugs, alcohol, sex, and painting her finger nails black. But she talks about all of this using the language of Christianism, calls it Satanic. And, despite all this, she still uses all of this to make herself better than me.

4. She is saved, a born again, in a Bible study group. I am totally opposed to the Born Again Movement. But she still tries to get me in an uses it all to talk down to me.

5. So we separate. About 1 1/2 years later I decide to try and contact her. I call the sorority she was joining. Real nice girl answers phone when I call. L. has left the college and is married. Totally surprised I ask if maybe there is someway I could still contact her. I am told that she has a baby.

This L. has an ideal Republican world view. Nice looking, smart in certain ways, but very denigrating. Chewing me up and spitting me out.

I was not ready for this kind of stuff, and at bottom of course I disagree with all of L.'s views.

So where does it lead? Voluntary Celibacy.

Out of college and in the work place, the women might not really be smarter, but they respect you, and that makes all the difference.

SJG

I guess you must have behaved well since they were nice to you :)

My experience with the REALLY young one say 18-21 (I'm 24 for reference) is either they are nice little cherubs or they are shit stains upon this earth LOL. They also either love me or hate me, rarely in between.

^^^^ They don't hold back in how they can go from Green Light to Red Light at will. But they can be really mind blowing and fully GF.

SJG

Idk what you mean SJG. GF?? I'm talking about the younger guys not the girls!

For the most part I like the 18-21 subset honestly more so if they are in the military. They can be really fun.

I won't lie the super young ones were a learning curve for me at first and I might have been a dbag to them before b/c I thought they knew all sorts of shit. When I finally figured out after a few oopses that they really don't get it or they just don't know how to talk to women I started being a lot nicer and saw they can be decent customers in all honesty.

Oh jeez I ain't no MILF category >:( I ain't that old. But yeah sometimes I do treat them like a really cute pet or something :))))

I know they like it- this is why I get away with it so much :)))

DC9428 wrote:
"Yeah I went to a strip club on my 18th birthday in high school and was immediately hooked."

So was there something which had prepared you for what a strip club would be like and got you into wanting to go?

Porn? :) :) :)

Lingerie Catalogs? :) :) :)

For myself, I never went until after college. For one thing it was the drinking age, another was the costs. But even then, and even one in San Francisco, this was all strict no touching.

It was actually a bit later and closer to home that I came to go to our bikini bars and to interact with the girls and to come to like them. Then employed, I did not need to worry about the money.

SJG


R Programming Langauge
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

OT: Computer Programming
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

OT: Assembler, C/C++, Embedded Systems, Machine Architectures, Development Systems, JTAG, Rust
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Pleaser 9" and 10"
https://www.pleaserusa.com/regular.asp?d…

Elliot Rodger Manifesto, 2014, 11 hours, human voice reading
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60WCF3WB…

Mexican Independence Day, Sept. 16th, 1810
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Opera Carmen
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

OT: Are Traditional Colleges and Universities Bad Environments?
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Vocels (Voluntary Celibates)
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Incels (Involuntary Celibates)
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

OT: Power Semiconductors, recent books about
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Stop holding doors for us if you don't want to talk about ending rape culture as much as wanna talk about other political issues
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

I challenge Nanna Bananna
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

While being yourself in a profession isn't always possible , it certainly is to a greater extent than most ppl realize.l
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Steve Jobs ' Most Inspiring Speech EVER ( facebook login required )
https://www.facebook.com/desientrepreneu…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cte9Bk_f…
Baker Gurwitz Army

Clark Kerr: Knowledge Industry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4J94a_N…

Mario Savio on the operation of the machine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yew51uYH…

Mario Savio Memorial Lecture: Robert Reich on Class Warfare in America
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LkYXec3…

Well, in rap music there is often imagery of strip clubs. But I think it only secondarily focuses on the women. Its like what they say about black clubs on the night shift.

"don't need to worry anymore that your desires will be considered offensive or inappropriate"

Okay, I got it.

I have never really felt that my desires were being considered inappropriate, that is not an issue I've had to deal with. Felt that some environments promoted conformists, but not that male desires were unwelcome. For me it is mostly having the women in high heels and makeup, and not much else.

Nudist camps are boring. The women have to be in high heels and makeup, dressed to please.

Without that, a strip club is just like ordinary places. And once you get on good enough terms with a girl, you can pull her clothes off of her. But she will not be in high heels and makeup.

Thanks,
SJG

Strip clubs figure in rap music because when you grow up in the ghetto, lots of the girls you know end up being strippers. For many its their first job. I knew girls who started stripping with fake IDs at 15. At 18, that was the way to go for many. So the thugs who knew these girls started seeing them at the clubs. Its like visiting a friend at any job. Then they become your dating pool.

A lot of rappers admit to liking strippers coz they're open about their intentions, know the hustle and appreciate a successful man who came from the gutter moreso than other bitches who have no idea what its like to struggle.

It was the opposite when I was a teenager. Boys could do whatever, girls couldn't. But a lot of parents weren't around so not being pregnant before graduating high school was a huge bragging point

DC and Phat, you both make very good points.

For me, this has started with the Incel thread and the phenomenon of Incel shooters like Elliot Rodger.

He could not get laid, or at least it seemed like that to him. So he went with this right wing angry anti-feminist concept of Incel. And primarily this is coming from colleges.


So when I was in college what did I see? Well I found the college girls to be frustration. But then again, I mostly was not trying to take them on car keys and wallet dates. Later on when i did, that worked better.

Picking up girls at parties was okay for me, and it generally worked. But continuing relationships after that was negative.

Of campus graduated girl was okay, horny as hell, clingy as hell, but I dumped her. So was I then making myself into a Voluntary Celibate?

What about other people I knew?

One guy in my department lamented that for his years it was impossible to have a GF. He blamed the academic department. So was he then via staying in school, opting for Voluntary Celibacy.

One guy who transferred in as a Junior, from Community College, was totally women inexperienced. Guys kept saying he needed to get laid. Over the next two years he had a skunky looking GF and another peudo GF, and washed out of three departments. What then came of him? I do not know. Certainly his relationship with his parents spoiled. Should he have opted for Voluntary Celibacy?

Generally what I found was that the college girls are a source of frustration. Once one is out and has a 'job' and an apartment and a car and takes girls on car keys and wallet dates, they are all available to you and are all trying to yoke you, and always getting in you face in the office environment, coming on to you, and even dressing for you.

So does college mean you best go for Voluntary Celibacy, or you will be driven nuts and become the next Incel Shooter? Maybe so, but lots of guys are not ready for that, that is not what they need at that time in their life.

SJG

4 men from California arrested in connection with violent Virginia rally
https://start.att.net/news/read/article/…

Topanga Canyon, place Elliot Rodger lived with his father and step mother. Birth mother lived close by.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topanga,_C…

People have written about it as a hold out of hippie culture from the 60's and 70's, one of the most pro-sex places on the planet.

I think back to myself my years in high school. One girl rejecting me with the most extreme of prejudice. Then others really coming on to me.

A lot of the differences and the difficulties were my just not having adult standing, living in this adolescent world, a world created by advertising. Lots of problems with all of it. And then my not understanding much of anything.

So was I a Vocel? Not as I saw it, but to stay out of trouble, that was almost a requirement.

SJG

As I know, the original meaning of a "Bachelor's Degree", is voluntary celibacy.

I don't think it means life long, but just for the time of the schooling.

And then many object to our German derived Phd system, as it amounts to the same thing, delaying marriage.

So for the man in college, he is between a rock and a hard place.

1. He might find that his schooling is incompatible with employment, competitive, demanding, impacted program. Lots of people washing out, lots more trying to get in. So he has little standing with outside women. And the outside women themselves will take up too much time.

2. So then with the in college girls, they can be a real pain in the ass. They are a product or a strange sort of extension of adolescence. Not always totally unfuckable, but still often a real problem. A kind of closed narrow minded world.

So what does one do if they want to graduate? Voluntary Celibacy.

And then, how long can one live like that, especially when there are growing and maturing issues on the table? And what if one does not understand that they are living in a strange state and a strange world.

Don't want to turn into the next Elliot Rodger.

The organization I am building will solve all of these sorts of problems at core.

SJG

So if we don't want guys to be faced with making the Vocel decision, then we need to set up alternative educational venues.

https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php5?id…

So as I see it there are a few basic tenants of this:

1. It is mostly supervised independent studies. So schedule flexibility is great. Not really lectures, discussions, homework, or exams. But there can be papers. Mostly self directed reading.

2. It costs little or nothing.

3. It is lifelong, no ending time.

4. Better if it can give accredited degrees, but this is not an absolute necessity.

5. Much education is not general enough, not theoretical enough. More like job training. Ours will be more theoretical and more philosophical.

6. Though mostly independent studies, I do think some moderated dicussion groups good. Great Books Program is a good example. But I would still change this some, pair it down, put some other stuff in. Mix it with contemporary Math and Science.

LifeBoat Forum
http://testosteronelifeboat.freeforums.n…

SJG

http://testosteronelifeboat.freeforums.n…

Martinism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEu3TIjf…

Talk Gnosis: The Rosicrucians part 1, Dr. Jeffrey S. Kupperman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKH3A2DW…

Killing Me Softly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4USer34…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhs8QGNj…

Elysian Encounter-Baker Gurvitz Army - playlist full album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0-DUyaY…

For me, you can already do this if you take the non-traditional student route. Many businesses offer tuition reimbursement for full time employees. It's the IRS max of $5250 a calendar year. Some businesses will pay more, but you pay taxes on the amounts over $5250. E.g, You have $7250 in expenses for calendar year. You'd pay taxes on an extra $2000. So really the "extra" 2K only "costs" $660 or $500 or $240, depending on your tax bracket. Not using tuition reimbursement is like literally not taking free bonus each year.

Yes, I understand. I was once involved in something like that.

But I also think there are other changes needed, new options offered. Like a program which is primarily supervised independent studies, instead of lectures, homework, and exams. And then if it can be further integrated with employment, all the better.

Thanks,
SJG

A guy in college is in a bad situation, often. So much time pressure, and women not interested in relationships. And then employment often being in compatible with his education, so little standing with outside women, and little money to spend. And it gets to be more of a problem in graduate school.

So if guys are not going to be pressed into party hookups and one night stands, need to make some changes to the educational system.

We need to come up with some kinds of educational alternatives.

So one of the examples is set in the Great Books Programs. But as I see it, a great deal of modification should be made. So I think they don't want to read commentary books. Their premise is that ordinary people can read and understand the primary texts. Okay, but to deal with the pre-socratics you really need commentary books, as we do not have that much primary text writing from them. And a little bit of commentary helps with most things.

So while most of what I am suggesting is based on supervised independent study. I still think it worth while to have come core reading and discussion groups. Such discussion groups can be extremely rewarding. F2f or online. You really get to know the people well.

So starting with Pre-Socratics:

Philosophic classics / Forrest E. Baird, editor, Walter Kaufmann (late). volume 1, starts with Pre-Socratics, Thales, and includes Pythagoras.

https://www.amazon.com/Philosophic-Class…

The concept of presocratic philosophy : its origin, development, and significance / Andre Laks ; translated by Glenn W. Most (2018)

https://www.amazon.com/Concept-Presocrat…

SJG

Lifeboat Forum
http://testosteronelifeboat.freeforums.n…

Some earlier threads:

OT: Book Publishing Industry
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php5?id…

Wheres sjg?
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php5?id…

Alternative Educations
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php5?id…

So one example of an alternative is this London School of Economic Science.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_of_…

Founder Leon MacLaren was influenced by the early-20th-century esotericist George Gurdjieff, praised as a charismatic intellectual who brought greater insight to Western thought, and rebuked as an egomaniacal charlatan who worked followers to exhaustion to break down personality.[28] MacLaren joined a group formed by followers of P.D. Ouspensky, a former student of Gurdjieff, and brought what he learned into SES

Until a few years ago they had facilities in many places, like San Francisco, and a satellite class room in San Jose. They had three courses, the first costing little, the second more, and the third maybe about $250.

I think it was mostly Plato and Aristotle.

https://www.schooleconomicscience.org/co…

Book Store
http://www.philosophybookshop.com/books?…

So if we don't want young guys to have to go Vocel, then we need to get them out of conventional colleges.

SJG

Trump, separating children and parents:
https://www.democracynow.org/2018/10/15/…

Vatican Canonizes Salvadoran Archbishop Óscar Romero, Who Was Killed by a U.S.-Backed Death Squad
www.democracynow.org/2018/10/15/vatican_…

They tried to film this in El Salvador, but they quickly got ejected. So it was filmed in Mexico.

Romero (1989) Trailer - John Duigan, Raul Julia
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G27jc6l_Zk

www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGffLSS3dkY

www.imdb.com/title/tt0098219/mediaviewer…

Pope Francis Canonizes, Oscar Romero ( and this has been long awaited )
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOOivnHwHOc

and more
https://www.democracynow.org/2018/10/15/…

Missouri Woman Fired For Blocking Black Man From Entering Apartment Complex
www.yahoo.com/news/missouri-woman-fired-…

So this London School of Economic Science, founded in 1938, and not to be confused with the London School of Economics, was founded by

Leon MacLaren
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_MacLa…

http://maclarenfoundation.net/life/

but they are also following this American progressive political economist Henry George
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Geor…

Henry George Foundation
https://web.archive.org/web/201010061757…

Center for the Study of Economics
https://www.urbantoolsconsult.org/

SJG

Oliver Stones Untold History of the United States Prequel A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utRKKDmI…

TJ Street
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5488/9620…

So though I did not really understand this, I ended up making a Vocel choice to get through much of my schooling. And further schooling has conflicted with work and with my intimate relationships.

If we do not want guys to have to do this, we need to set up other kinds of schooling.

So here about Leon MacLaren and the London School of Economic Science
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOmkYwxu…

Many videos about Henry George
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmKZthN5…

SJG

Everything for everyone : the radical tradition that is shaping the next economy / Nathan Schneider. (2018)

Clamato, great tomato juice for drinking straight.

https://www.clamato.com/en
Motts LLP
Plano TX
https://www.motts.com/

TJ Street
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5488/9620…

So, if we don't want guys to be pressed into going Vocel, and if we want to be able to continue our own educations nicely, we need other kinds of schools.

London School of Economic Science, its founder Leon MacLaren
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOmkYwxu…

So being influenced, through his father, by Henry George, Leon MacLaren started the school. George wrote about Land Taxation. He was some sort of a Progressive Left Economist. Seems to have emerged in the 19th Century, without reference to Marx and Engels.

But after the war MacLaren decided that something more was needed.

So in the early 1950's, a Philosophy course based on Plato, was added to the economics program.

Content was still seen as limited. In 1953. MacLaren was introduced to Dr. Francis Roles and the Study Society in London.

There he heard the teachings of Peter D. Ospensky, and his teacher George Gurdjieff.

Now Ospensky and Gurdjieff were clearly occultists. And were also both in exile to get away from the Bolsheviks. Though not always, but usually, occultism is elitist and favors the wealthy and is something of the Right. Here we have their ideas being taken seriously by someone seemingly of the Left.

Well, having either of them as your personal guru I think would be problematic. And also Ouspensky did later separate from Gurdjieff.

But the Gurdjieff organization does still operate. Go into a library and find some books by or about him, and their may be an advertising book mark in them

They operate in San Francisco and Palo Alto. Though I do not know how many actual business offices they have. I talked to the rep in Palo Alto once.

Books by them, especially Ospensky, and then even more about them. This includes someone I have a great deal of respect for, Colin Wilson.

This E.J. Gold is a Gurdjieff imitator, among other things.
https://www.idhhb.com/

Well, we have this created in Gurdjieff's name:
http://www.institut-gurdjieff.com/iagf/

I talked to the Gurdjieff people about 20 years back. Today it seems like Gurdjieff's own org has dried up. So the IDHHB name has been taken over by E. J. Gold.
http://www.gurdjiefflegacy.org/40article…

Lots and lots of books about Gurdjieff, trying to capture what his teaching was. And Ospensky has that plus his own idea.

One of the newest is by Tobias Churton:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2cSaBCb…

Churton is a brilliant writer and his books are most challenging. His idea that Gurdjieff was a Mason is news to me, but any Churton says is worth serious consideration.

SJG

Deconstructing Gurdjieff : biography of a spiritual magician / Tobias Churton. (2017 Inner Traditions)

Bruce Chilton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN3brxti…

TJ Steet
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5488/9620…

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/9620…

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5497/96200…

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7361/96322…

https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5539/96203…

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5449/96322…

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5520/96203…

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/nkeeS3HHJrU/hqdef…

Jeff Healey, While My Guitar Gently Weeps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCaL_v2E…

Oh my god I could never give up sex lol! I would go insane!

Well, this thread was mostly inspired by this new Incel phenomenon, these guys who have said that they are being rejected by women and so they are Involuntary Celibates. It is tied to the PUA and Men's Rights, MGTOW movements. And I do not agree with these.

But there have been about three now who have gone on shooting sprees. And so the one who started it was the one who shocked every one, Elliot Rodger at UC Santa Barbara.

Previous Threads:

Elliot Rodger, Isla Vista Shooter 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj4kM5LQ…

Incels (Involuntary Celibates)
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php5?id…

Add to these if you wish. It will keep them going.

Now after the Elliot Rodger episode, I thought of the book Rampage by Katherine S. Newman.

https://www.amazon.com/Rampage-Social-Ro…

She, looking more at high school spree shootings, notices that they happen in low crime rate suburban and exurban white mono-culture schools. Where as in the urban schools there is a higher crime rate, more kids with records, and likely more guns in the school.

So she figures that these kinds of schools are pressure cookers. So you have Columbine situations. Where as in urban schools there are enough social niches that everyone can find a place.

So I figured it must be the same thing for Elliot Rodger. But so far no one else seems to be looking at it quite this way. They see him as a product of this misogyny based MRA, MGTOW, PUA, PUA-HATE, and NRA fueled movement.

None the less though, all of these shootings are happening at colleges. I feel that college can be a shitty environment.

Previous Threads

OT: Are Traditional Colleges and Universities Bad Environments?
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php5?id…

Alternative Educations
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php5?id…

So a guy is getting squeezed between a rock and a hard place.

1. The college girls are frustrating as all hell.

2. He might be in a impacted program and that might be incompatible with any employment. So not only is he low on money, he will be at a disadvantage with the town girls.

So I don't go along with the Incel concept. But many guys do find that they need to opt for Voluntary Celibacy, if they want to get through school. They might not understand this, and that makes it worse. Elliot Rodger expected sexual heaven. And people on this board have found women to be incompatible with their schooling.

And then:

https://www.amazon.com/Marriage-Markets-…

They say that college girls want only hook ups, not relationships. This is because they also are under time constraints and also, they only want to marry those guys who graduate and go to elite careers. Otherwise the odds are that the marriage will end up costing them money.

So what these women need then, and what surprised these authors, is that to compete economically, they need contraception and abortion.

So as it is then, many men seem to have to voluntarily select celibacy.

So if there is a remedy, as I see it, it is in some other form of schooling.


SJG

Deconstructing Gurdjieff : biography of a spiritual magician / Tobias Churton. (2017 Inner Traditions)

Bruce Chilton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN3brxti…

TJ Steet
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5488/9620…

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/9620…

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5497/96200…

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7361/96322…

https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5539/96203…

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5449/96322…

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5520/96203…

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/nkeeS3HHJrU/hqdef…

Jeff Healey, While My Guitar Gently Weeps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCaL_v2E…

Dragnet 106 "The Bank Examiner Swindle" Original Air Date February 23, 1967
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj4kM5LQ…

So continuing with the video about Leon MacLaren
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOmkYwxu…

So he started with Henry George material, then Plato, then Gurdjieff and Ouspensky.

Gurdjieff and Ouspensky are about self-remembering, which I do agree with and try to practice. But they are saying that this is today called Mindfulness.

Well, Mindfulness is a Buddhist concept. I disagree that that is really the same as what Gurdjieff and Ouspenksky taught. Some of what they teach might be the same as the Ira Progoff Intensive Journaling system. But still, not completely.

So Dr. Francis Roles and the Study Society In London continued the Ouspensky work.

So in 1960, Leon MacLaren and Francis Roles meet Maharesi Mahesh Yogi in London.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maharishi_…

"In 1967, the Maharishi gave a lecture at Caxton Hall in London which was attended by Pattie Boyd, George Harrison's wife,[69] as well as Leon MacLaren, the founder and leader of the School of Economic Science (SES)."

from the SES Wikipedia page:

"Doctrine is based on the precepts of Advaita Vedanta as translated, taped and transcribed from interviews in India conducted by MacLaren with Swami Santanand Saraswati (d.1997), a colleague of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.[7] Doctrine is disseminated by SES advanced students who are volunteer teachers, and is maintained by the successors of MacLaren and Swami Santanand Saraswati: Lambie and SES guru Sri Vasudevananda Saraswati, respectively.[7]

Advaita means literally "not two"; vedanta refers to the knowledge underlying the creation. Together these are said to explain the essential unity of everything in creation and the source from which it arises. This teaching also speaks of ‘pure consciousness' as the true essence of every being, and the human possibility of shedding the covers on this essence to allow it to be realized and expressed in its purity. The organisation has been described as providing "mind discipline" for achieving mental quiescence and as cult or new religious movement."

And more on the page too.


Well, when I first learned of SES, about 5 years ago, in connection with Ouspensky, they had 3 courses of about 8 to 12 weeks. Course one cost about $25. Two about $125, and Three about $250. They had offices all over like in San Francisco. And a satellite classroom in San Jose.

Today, it might be all online.

lets see:

https://www.schooleconomicscience.org/

Well, they have courses about Practical Philosophy and about Economic Justice. I cannot find any mention of locations outside of London anymore.

But lots of books, though mostly Hindu.

http://www.philosophybookshop.com/books?…

Can I find books about Henry George, how about Leon MacLaren?

Yes, this talks about all the SES people:

East meets West : the stories of the remarkable men and women from the East and the West who built a bridge across a cultural divide and introduced meditation and Eastern philosophy to the West / John Adago (2014)

A mountain of books by and about Henry George. I believe he lived in San Francisco.

The economics of Henry George : history's rehabilitation of America's greatest early economist / Phillip J. Bryson (2011)

Well Google helped me find:
https://www.schooleconomicscience.org/ov…

And it lists San Francisco, and on that page it talks about San Jose.

http://practicalphilosopher.org/2018/08/…

Well, to me, this looks less Henry George and less Plato, but more a Hindu adaptation of Gurdjieff. Well, it is a start for some people. It is an alternative to our society's poisons, Evangelical Christianity and the Recovery Movement.

SJG

Deconstructing Gurdjieff : biography of a spiritual magician / Tobias Churton. (2017 Inner Traditions)

Bruce Chilton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN3brxti…

TJ Steet
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5488/9620…

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/9620…

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5497/96200…

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7361/96322…

https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5539/96203…

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5449/96322…

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5520/96203…

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/nkeeS3HHJrU/hqdef…

Jeff Healey, While My Guitar Gently Weeps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCaL_v2E…

Dragnet 106 "The Bank Examiner Swindle" Original Air Date February 23, 1967
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj4kM5LQ…

Joe Bonamassa - "Midnight Blues" - Beacon Theatre - Live From New York
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z74lr3t…

Here's Why the Ferrari Portofino Is Worth $250,000
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjsc8it2…

Here's Why the Ferrari F40 Is Worth $1.3 Million
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mZdkfEe…

The Lamborghini Diablo Was the Craziest Car of the 1990s ( Diablo was a really wild car. Much better designed than Contach )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0zOKlVE…

Wow that's a lot to digest. So typically I'm pretty sympathetic towards lonely men and I feel bad for them. I've had a few of them at my club so far and they are the sweetest customers I get. Very respectful of me and usually seem so happy to be with me. It makes me feel good to be the pretty girl who makes a lonely guy feel better about himself. Even outside the club, I'm kind of known for being a bit of a therapist/mom like figure at my school because I'm very open and non-judgmental towards people so lots of people come to me with their problems and I listen to them and some of them have been guys who are really sad that they can't find a girlfriend. I completely understand being sad that you're lonely but there is a big difference between how the men I described are dealing with their loneliness and the misogyny and murderous rage that you see from the incel community. The incel community just stereotypes women and acts like women are evil and that's their nature. I mean, the fact that several incels are actually responsible for mass shootings just goes to show that their ideology is really dangerous and toxic. The fact is that if any of these guys talked to me for example, they would know that I'm not just a "stacy" who will only fuck "chads," I like a lot of quirky nerdy guys too, and I would actually be very sympathetic towards them but they're too stuck in their hatred to consider that a girl wouldn't look down on them if they just didn't come at it from so much rage. I mean how do they expect anyone to want to fuck them or to sympathize with them when they're talking about wanting to kill people and rape women? That doesn't make people want to help you, it makes them think you're evil!

"I like a lot of quirky nerdy guys too, and I would actually be very sympathetic towards them but they're too stuck in their hatred to consider that a girl wouldn't look down on them if they just didn't come at it from so much rage. "

^ I can relate to this a lot. I'd rather be nice to nerd types but a lot of them are in the incel category I've been noticing (before being notified of "incels" via this forum). So I have no sympathy to how cruel I might end up being towards. They just feed my disdain.

I guess I could say I'm a vocel. Not because I don't enjoy sex, but partly because never did get over an ex and I am just so disgusted by men I can't even fathom fucking one of these creatures lol! I'm perfectly capable of keeping guy friends and they don't disgust me in a way we can't be friends. It's hard to even explain.

"
I'm not just a "stacy" who will only fuck "chads"
"

Yes I do understand, the Incel Movement is no good. It is blaming young women for something without looking at the bigger picture of what is going on, and about how social status works and about how peer group status works.

Nevertheless, Elliot Rodger is the one who put this all on the map. And then with his video missives and his 137 page manifesto he has given people a lot to think about.

I agree that he was being horribly influenced by this MRA / MG-TOW / Incel movement. He was also being influenced by the NRA and the focus on violent retribution, and this is a primary arm of the Republican Party's outreach.

But I also do think that colleges are often negative environments. People are saying this pertaining to the high school spree shootings, but not about the college version.

Now sure, for some people college is really good. But for others, like Rodger, they needed to be someplace else, some other kind of place.

When the Rodger shooting occurred I happened to meet someone who was a counselor of students at Fresno State. I told him my view, that UC is culturally narrow. Mostly white, well off, and young. Where as CSU is less like this, and the Community Colleges even less so. Also, in these other two systems, students are far more likely to have part time jobs, than at UC.

We have this Makeshift Collective for independent film makers in San Francisco. Suppose Rodger was a student at CSU San Francisco, part of this Makeshift Collective, and also employed part time. I think things would have gone very well for him. He would not have gone in a more negative direction, he would have gone in a more positive direction and things would have been okay.

But overall I think what is necessary is to have alternative forms of schooling. Conventional colleges have their limitations even without considering Rodger and the Incels.

Too limited when it is de-coupled from work experience. Too much competitive pressure. Education needs to be life long, not just for a short interval. Needs to be more self directed. Needs to be part of a balanced life.

SJG

Interesting Old Thread
Favorite Strip Clubs of San_Jose_Guy?
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php5?id…

TJ Street
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5488/9620…

https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7290/96201…

http://www.adelitasbartijuanamexico.com/…

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3680/9633…

Nirvana - Aneurysm (Live at Reading 1992)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvwqSMRt…

Nirvana - Smells Like Teen Spirit (Live at Reading 1992) w/ surprise into
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3XIGon2…

FWIW, then the Columbine shooting occurred and they were showing news footage of the students I was taken by how so many did look like Stacy and Chad sorts, so much so that, though not using that terminology, I spoke out about it.

The Katherine Newman thesis is that these high school spree shootings mostly occur at these suburban / ex-urban monoculture schools.

So I still see that something like this is also true of some colleges is a factor.

And you know that Michael Moore sees the emphasis on the military and these Titan ICBMs as being part of a worshiping of lethal violence and the influence behind the shooters.

Part of the argument, from Columbine, and from Rodger in Santa Barbara, is that when a young man feels that he is being denied manhood, and with this NRA culture in play, then it is a good chance that he will want to lash out violently. His perceptions do not need to be that accurate either. He only has to answer to himself. And the only way you can understand these sorts of incidents is to see them as first and and foremost being suicides.

SJG

East meets West : the stories of the remarkable men and women from the East and the West who built a bridge across a cultural divide and introduced meditation and Eastern philosophy to the West / John Adago (2014)

This title is a play on the title of Gurdjieef's book. Covers all the founders of the London School of Economic Science. I am going to read it.

SJG

In the pool halls, the hustlers and the losers
I used to watch 'em through the glass
Well I'd stand outside at closing time
Just to watch her walk on past

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH29n-MV…

^Because you don’t stop bumping old shit threads you are back on ignore

TrollWarnBot will be at your front door any minute now:

https://www.exmed.net/p-3050-boudreauxs-…

SJG

I think incels scare me personally because I feel that they are blaming me and a lot of other women for something I didn't do. I'm a very open minded person and I don't act anything like the way they act like girls behave but they would hate me regardless because I'm a girl and I'm comfortable with my sexuality, which, they should be happy about but instead just slut-shame girls, which doesn't make any sense. Its like, so girls aren't having sex with you so you're gonna shame them to make them less open towards sex? I also don't want anybody thinking I'm talking about all lonely men who have trouble finding a girlfriend, I'm just specifically talking about the incels who are hateful.

Thanks DC :), I am still in high school, I'm in my senior year right now but I have actually been a part of the college scene for about a year now. A lot of my friends are older than me and in college so I hang out with them a lot and they invite me to parties every weekend so I've had a chance to interact a lot with people from certain universities which is why I've chosen those places to apply. At this point, more of my friends are actually college students than high schoolers. I've had a lot of good times but I'm so done with high school now, I don't give a fuck about it anymore and I wanna just get to college already considering I'm essentially half enrolled there already.

I don't mean to downplay what you're going through though. A lot of people have come to me when they're sad about something and say I make them feel better so feel free to PM me if you wanna talk :)

@DC9428

And yes indeed, Elliot Rodger was in a school known as a party school. He and his parents chose it because he thought he could get laid there. But too often, college ends up being just another delay in the road to adult status. How long one can stand this varies. The British born AstroPhysicist Freeman Dyson is a vociferous critic of our German derived PhD system for just these sorts of reasons.

Elliot's parents saw him as a problem, and so they were looking for a fix. So they thought they'd found it in UCSB. I don't fault them though, at least not for that.

DC, you write very well. Unfortunately I think many at that critical age we are speaking of do not have your powers of perception and discernment. They would not be able to make that kind of a discernment about a school, like in 2 or 3 weeks. They just don't have enough worldly experience. They have never seen or known anything except for the world which they grew up in. And they may have bought into this idea that they are some kind of a problem. Elliot certainly had. So he would not see himself as capable of evaluating a new social environment.

Anyway, spree shootings had been happening at Post Offices. But they have tried to reform. Locally there was a recent one at the UPS building in San Francisco. Shootings have been on the rise at high schools. And these Incel identified spree shooters seem to be at colleges. I see this as similar to the high school situation.

But the commentators are just tying it to this PUA culture of misogyny, and to the NRA / Republican Party culture of guns and retributive violence.

I think both interpretations are equally correct. Conventional college cannot possibly be the best way to get an education. The time interval is just too short, and the pressure and concentration level too high. Education needs to be life long, self-directed, and mixed with all other types of life experience.

And then there is the cost issue. People should not be saddled with debt, or at the mercy of their parents. And then for those at the public schools, already far to expensive, moving to a private school would generally be out of the question. College has become more about credentialing, than about education.

A local historian who teaches at UC Berkeley, Gray Brechin, has studied the subject and concluded that even the publicly funded colleges help the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. And I believe that if one just thinks about it for a moment, this is obvious.

http://www.graybrechin.net/

And then as young adults many have yet to the develop many aspects of themselves, so they really cannot commit or apply themselves to any demanding programs, and they cannot make an informed commitment to anything either. Most of their education will have to come at some later date.

Being denied adult status for years and years, and especially when childhood has been crippling, is just going to be pain some will not be able to bear. We need to find other ways.

SJG

Mainstreet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH29n-MV…

Mary Jane's Last Dance - Tom Petty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mki8vpl…

TJ Street

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5488/9620…

https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7290/96201…

http://www.adelitasbartijuanamexico.com/…

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3680/9633…

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/x9DUqhAne44/hqdef…

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5497/96200…

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7361/96322…

https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5539/96203…

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5449/96322…

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5520/96203…

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/nkeeS3HHJrU/hqdef…

Attributed to Denis Diderot, "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."

Anyone can get laid.

If a man doesn't want the type of women who want him, he should work on himself to be the kind of man the women he wants, want.

If he wants to waste his time making excuses or blaming the world, thats a symptom of some of the traits that make him undesirable to women.

@strippercutie404,

Yes, slut shaming girls and the dividing of women into two categories is a problem which patriarchy has created. Feminism should be seen as part of the solution, not part of the problem.

The PUA - Incel world does not understand this.

As I see it, most of the time when a guy is getting continually rejected, it is not the women themselves, it is the system of hierarchy which is in play. Elliot Rodger saw this, but he was wrong to blame this primarily on the young women. He just needed to be some place else, like a college where most of the students are working part time.

SJG

So let me try to tell now the story of another group which I was in, which could be considered as another alternate model of education.

Let me just call this organization C.

It was started by someone from the French Rosicrucian Order AMORC. The idea was that there would be 3 concentric circles, and these would represent 3 historic strains of Western Esoteric thought. And if anyone could initiate people into such, it would have been the founder.

So then I guess all of use were on the outside. We were to be working on personal reasearch projects, as part of our circle, and presenting it at meetings.

There there were also to be Commissions and Committees, doing the offical work of C.

So I had my project(s) and we hard our circle meetings at people's homes.

Idea was real interesting, but it NEVER worked. For one thing the US head was a real problem. But they were always trying to work on the org's legal and financial structure. This would have been important, if they could make the circles work and get some members. But as it was, it was all cart before horse.

The US head moved to the midwest and then would report that being such a conservative area, recruitment was impossible.

And locally recruitment was always by word of mouth, people who had at least a social connection to AMORC.

Overall it went nowhere, the founder has passed away, and there might be something in NM, and then some other group inspired by it in the US.

But is the idea good? Can you get people to work on personal research projects, and then come to meetings and make a presentation, like once a month?

SJG

A much loved company and website back into action, enjoy:
https://www.wickedtemptations.com/

Lou Reed - Egg Cream
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIIG4gSX…

Ghilottibros.com, Golden Gate Bridge
https://ghilottibros.com/about/

Bob Dylan - Like a Rolling Stone (Audio)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwOfCgky…

So if we don't want young men to have to trade off getting an education for a sex life, then we need alternative types of education. So years and years ago I looked into the Great Books Groups. These are not the Great Books Schools, they are study groups. I found out that they meet once a month for a discussion. They read one thing per month, like a book of the Bible, or of Plato, something like that. 12 per year.

So what I find today:
https://www.greatbooks.org/

So they have Councils
https://www.greatbooks.org/great-books-n…

So I look by my zip code and find nothing. So I look for all of CA. Lots of groups. You just email or call the person listed.

Overall I support this, but I am still not impressed by it. Need more, need a broader context to do it in. Just like I concluded with the above system of study circles.

Let me look at something else here too.

http://www.philosopher.org/Socrates_Cafe…

Yes, I like this. Years ago I wrote to them to get the local list.

Yes, still have to snail mail them to get a list.

Here, Socrates Café: A Fresh Taste of Philosophy
by Christopher Phillips
http://www.philosopher.org/Books.html

Again, like with the above two, I still say that you need a much broader context to make this all work.



So I am planning on letting some threads die off and close, unless someone else has something to add. For myself, I have run out of things to say.

The Levels of PLdom
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php5?id…

Elliot Rodger, Isla Vista Shooter 2014
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php5?id…

Car Keys and Wallet Dating
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php5?id…

... tried to distance himself from Nazi policies and was never held accountable
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php5?id…

Yippie, Dow drops 831 points!
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php5?id…

Sex In The Home Of Your Parents?
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php5?id…

So What Do Women Like To Read?
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php5?id…

SJG

Nirvana - Come As You Are
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vabnZ9-e…

This song in my head last night. It must be in the Key of D.

Most everyone can hear relative pitch. But very few can hear absolute pitch. The reason every key sounds different is because the percussion tuning is not changed. Musicians deny that percussion is tuned to any specific pitch, saying that rather it is just tuned until it sounds right. But that is silly, because that is exactly how a violin is played, by making it sound right. Tympani tunes with a crank handle, and it has a gauge right on it. So the kick drum is tuned to A of the 16ft octave, the same as the second to lowest string of a four string bass, 55 hz. All the drums are tuned.

These kind of songs are always in D. I think it has something to do with that A note, the dominant.

So to really know you almost have to play along with it. The D scale has F and C sharped. But it can be done with accidentals too. And some music revolves around other notes than the tonic. Some is Mixolyidian and so it revolves around the dominant and has the 7th ( C# ) flatted. Lots of ways. In the end it is just listening to it and trying to play along which will resolve this.

This ends on the D major triad and the chorus versus end on the D major triad. Usually that is the final determinant of what key it is in.

Alternate guitar tuning is being used, one suggestive of D.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/halleonard-pagep…

https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab/nir…

https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab/nir…

Wicked Temptations, how life should be:
https://www.wickedtemptations.com/standa…

Anarchist Education and the Modern School : A Francisco Ferrer Reader (2018)

https://www.amazon.com/Anarchist-Educati…

https://www.amazon.com/Anarchist-Educati…

Time to clarify some of my own experiences about college. For me, primary and secondary school were just a complete waste of time. I went through them, but only because I had no other choice. Every hour spent there was just time wasted.

At college, first I approached it the same way. But then I saw that there was more, and so I changed how I approached it.

It was in various departments, but college was the first time in my life where I encountered people who knew things worthy of adults. Mostly it came down to some faculty who had a well developed mathematical understanding, and that mostly amounted to calculus.

So I wanted that for myself too, and so I worked to develop it.

So I am critical of college, but there is also good in it. Its just that overall I think it has to be done some other way. The college social environment amounts to just being denied adulthood.

SJG

JS69 Front Room Makeout Session
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php5?id…

https://www.wickedtemptations.com/standa…

https://www.wickedtemptations.com/standa…

https://www.wickedtemptations.com/standa…

https://www.wickedtemptations.com/standa…

https://www.lingeriediva.com/collections…

Joe Bonamassa - "Midnight Blues" - Beacon Theatre - Live From New York
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z74lr3t…

Beth Hart and Joe Bonamassa- I'd Rather Go Blind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnXgZZkP…

Joe Bonamassa - "Sloe Gin" - Muddy Wolf at Red Rocks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvvgZMGp…

TJ Street
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5488/9620…

https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7290/96201…

http://www.adelitasbartijuanamexico.com/…

Bishop John Shelby Spong(9am) - "From a Tribal God to a Universal Presence: The Story Of The Bible"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87rokCqk…

dis some crazy shit yo. you gon lose yo mind if you try dis.

So reflecting last night on this relationship between school and work. This is a fucked up world which we live in.

If in college I had had most of the time a part time job, that could have been good. For one thing it would have given my extra money, to spend on anything I needed. But that actually would not have been that important. But it would have just given me another realm for social rooting. So I would have come across as more mature.

Also, if it were something which helped me further prepare for a post college career, or at least to supplement it, or to back it up, that would have been good.

Now in fact from my first summer job, they wanted to put me into a fast track position. If I had gone that way, I could have had nationwide responsibilities coming from that. And though that company did eventually contract and pull out, I could have moved to something else.

Now that position they wanted to put me in would have shifted me towards non-college based careers. But that line is arbitrary and it just shows how fucked up this world is.

Also, they tried to set me up with a college town job when I went back. I talked to the person. But it was just going to be too much time, especially with the transportation demand. Graduating from college was my real priority.

But we should not have to be facing such extreme trade offs.

Having such jobs would have let me support myself, and keep going to college, and be buying new cars as needed, indefinitely.

How about high school? Well a teacher tried to set me up with such an after school job.

Issues came down to the transportation requirement. And also my parents would not have been too keen on that. Tends to steer one to that work of work, non-college jobs, and away from high school grads and getting into college.

But then, as I see it, high school was a complete waste of time academically.

With a couple of girls I would approach, having that after school job would have made me look better in their eyes, more mature, more measuring up to social expectations.

People here have posted about how great Latina's can be. Yes, true, but they also do seem to have their own rules. If in their eyes you are not measuring up to social expectations, then they can be explosively cruel. Such was my experience.

Couple of other girls really were throwing themselves at me, but I did not want anything to do with them, or even know what to do with them. But this elite group Latina I really liked. But she rejected me with extreme prejudice.

If I had had an after school job, it would have made me come across differently, accelerated my maturation, and in high school and in college I would have earlier gotten to be good in approaching girls.

Education and work income and work experience should not have to be traded off this way.

I have written about being so impressed with some faculty members who really had in depth mathematical understandings. Well most of the students I was in school with do not use anything like that.

I have, but it has always been by fighting hard for it.

So there needs to be some other way.

Suppose there were Work, Education, and Play ( womanizing ), all merged together, and based on one living situation, so there were no transportation requirements. That is how it will be in the organization I am building.

If Elliot Rodger could have had something like that, appropriate to his interests and abilities, I believe that everything would have worked out just fine for him.

College has huge huge costs, and only some of them are monetary. It amounts to an extension of adolescence.

And this wall between college careers and non-college careers, and with grad degree careers, it is mostly just a socio-economic status wall, not really a wall of actual knowledge and abilities, not in most cases.

Education and work experience should be blended together. What I have learned in even the most down to earth portions of my work experience, has been very valuable to me. And then education needs to be life long and largely self directed.

SJG

https://jbonamassa.com/

Joe Bonamassa - "Sloe Gin" - Muddy Wolf at Red Rocks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvvgZMGp…

Midnight Blues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z74lr3t…

Guitar Harmonics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_har…

Beth and Joe - Black Coffee ( a Steve Marriott song, quite a vocal legend to try and imitate )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NooMzmbE…

Beth and Joe - I'd Rather Go Blind ( Live Amsterdam )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEHwO_UE…

So I guess if you think that someone only goes to college because they have no other options, still too immature for much else, then you will steer them away from part time jobs, car ownership, etc.

College has huge costs, only some of them are financial. Most are social.

So let me ask another question. Most of those who have a great deal of mathematical understanding learned and developed this while in conventional college classes. But then a counter argument could be made. People who really know things well, at some point, they had to educate themselves.

So I ask, can people develop deep mathematical understanding, outside of conventional college?

And what I am working on is trying to greatly expand my own mathematical understanding, beyond anything I got will in college. Will it work?

And if so, is there any reason for conventional college, except that people are willing to pay for it?

Can we replace it entirely with our alternative, supervised independent study? The costs will be low, and the heavy social costs will be gone.

SJG

Fascism Unleashed In America
https://www.democracynow.org/shows/2018/…

TJ Street
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5488/9620…

https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7290/96201…

http://www.adelitasbartijuanamexico.com/…

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3680/9633…

Jennifer Lopez
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/half-nak…

JohnSmith69 has a front room makeout session with an 18yo hottie. Only problem is that he is so cranky that he describes it all in negative terms and blames it on the girl.
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php5?id…

WARNING - The following accounts are considered to be forum trolls and may not be trustworthy:

san_jose_guy - commonly referred to as SJG this forum member is usually mocked or ignored, his comments should NOT be taken in any way as legitimate

Santa Fe Institute
https://www.santafe.edu/

Said not to be a matriculating institution, but offering post doc opportunities.

https://www.complexityexplorer.org/cours…

SJG

Lady Zep
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO4Idvfd…

So how accredits and how important is it?

https://www.ciis.edu/academics/office-of…

http://www.wisdomuniversity.org/aboutus.…
Matthew Fox's thing. At this time, not accredited

"Wisdom University is licensed, and the quality of its education affirmed, by the Bureau for Private Postsecondary Education (BPPE) of the State of California, according to the provisions of California Education Code 94900. The official Certificate of Approval states that Wisdom University is approved for its “integrity, financial stability, and educational quality, including the offering of bona fide instruction by qualified faculty and the appropriate assessment of students’ achievement prior to, during, and at the end of its programs.”

At this time, Wisdom University is not accredited by any of the major regional accrediting agencies that are recognized by the U.S. Department of Education, nor by the Canadian or other national governments. As of now, our students cannot receive U.S. Federal student loans.
"

For my org, no one will need government money, and especially not loans. LOL!

https://www.wscuc.org/

Manly Palmer Hall's thing
https://www.uprs.edu/

UPR is accredited by the Distance Education Accrediting Commission or DEAC. The Distance Education Accrediting Commission is listed by the U.S. Department of Education as a recognized accrediting agency. The Distance Education Accrediting Commission is recognized by the Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA https://www.chea.org).

"Distance Education"

https://www.deac.org/

And UC Berkeley
https://vcue.berkeley.edu/committees-ini…

Stanford
https://wasc.stanford.edu/

All very interesting!

Personally I do not give a shit about accreditation. And if need be, make our own school, make our own accreditation institute too. But real accreditation might not be that hard.

https://tvclip.biz/video/7ShZR5OmFCg/vis…

SJG

IGFT
Institute For Global Transformation
https://www.ifgt.net/

Not really sure what this is or where it comes from. Someone from SJ's Rosicrucian Order AMORC went to it.

Nominally at:
Institute For Global Transformation™
4915 Atlanta Hwy
Flowery Branch, GA 30542

Seems to be a residential address, 20 miles North East of Atlanta.

https://www.ifgt.net/articles-archive/ch…

SJG

Ekaterina Mechetina plays Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWbwJ78g…

TJ Street
https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7290/96201…

http://www.adelitasbartijuanamexico.com/…

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3680/9633…

SJG, following the link you have on your profile to your google site, I have a couple of questions.

sites.google.com

1) is the guy hugging the bidet your mug?
2) You need to tell Mary to update the page since she seems to be the only one updating it and some of the links do not work.
3) Is Mary your mom or are you actually Mary? If she is your mom, what does she think about all the pics of strippers on the page?
4) Wonder what all those kids spelling out SJG would think if they knew they were on a website detailing strippers and sex?

Edit log:
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Consider:

https://www.goetheanum.org/

https://www.goetheanum.org/en/

https://www.goetheanum.org/en/school-of-…

website needs work. But here, a video, in English
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXKSSBHT…

Another alternative example to look at.

Everybody has to take some Music classes.

SJG

Baker Gurwitz, live
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7GXbGPN…

Also closely related:

https://sophiafoundation.org/portfolio/

SJG

So I continue to read Cyberspace by Michael Benedikt, 1991.

Talk about more immersive approaches to Cyberspace, less opaque, less like www, more like Multi-User Dungeons.

As I think about this now. If you wanted to set up some kind of book reading and discussion course, then skillful use of an online message board could really help. I mean, text is not everything. But if people are reading and trying to understand and discuss it, then a BBS would be ideal. It would supplement the f2f meeting, but never replace them.

Would have to be set up skillfully, rules about who can read it well thought out.

https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php5?id…

Kudos to Nicespice for finding this list:
https://www.bestcollegereviews.org/featu…

SJG

Jeff Healey, w/ Toucu, and name confirmed as Healey introduces her
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_ufNFTA…

EGS, European Graduate School, lots of interesting people associated with this. Like the Mexican born Manuel de Landa

http://egs.edu/department/philosophy-art…

SJG

Seems like a stiff and competitive institution, fully accredited.

https://www.ciis.edu/

SJG

Kudos to Nicespice for finding this Great Books Schools list.
https://www.bestcollegereviews.org/featu…

And remember, the Bible has always been considered part of the Great Books list.

So can we pick some schools and see what exactly they read, and how they do it?

So consider

18. University of San Francisco – St. Ignatius Institute ( local Jesuit school, one of three in CA )

12. University of Texas at Austin

6. Thomas Aquinas College ( considered a far right wing Catholic school

4. St. John’s College ( I know people who graduated from this, Annapolis Maryland. )

1. Biola University – Torrey Honors Institute ( listed as the best. But as I know this is a horrid Born Again School in Southern California. )

Usually such Great Books Schools are heavily Catholic. But that Thomas Aquinas School is a reactionary far right school.

St. Johns has another campus in Santa Fe NM.

So, lets try and find out what they do at this subset of the schools.

As I know, they want more primary texts, and less commentary texts. But to do pre-socratics, not on the Great Books List, you have to use commentary texts, as there isn't much to be had of primary texts.

So there could be different approaches to such things.

Also, do these schools actually read the Apocrypha, like in a Catholic Bible, like Tobit?

SJG

Deleuze and Guattari
http://criticallegalthinking.com/2010/12…

Chaka Khan (Ain't Nobody) rare 80's performance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwTvDSpe…

Melody Still Lingers On ( Night In Tunisia ) no bra!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyzrlndL…

Full concert, Roxy, 1981
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUfEQrAp…

So lets start with St. John's College, Annapolis MD.

https://www.sjc.edu/

Reading List, by Year
https://www.sjc.edu/academic-programs/un…

Notice in Senior Year they read Lobachevsky's Theory of Parallels, i.e. Non-Euclidean Geometry.

Sophmore year they read the bible, OT and NT, don't know about the apocrypha.

Freshman year, some Plato and Aristotle.

But in all of these years they are reading lots and lots of other stuff.

Don't see any mention of commentary books.

Sophomore year, reading Plotinus, Enneads

But they also have some stuff they read for Seminars

https://www.sjc.edu/academic-programs/un…

https://www.sjc.edu/application/files/94…

https://www.sjc.edu/application/files/75…

They also have something else they do for 7 weeks called perceptorials.

https://www.sjc.edu/academic-programs/un…

"
Junior and Senior Electives

Preceptorials offer students the opportunity to follow the work of a particular author more deeply or to pursue a question of philosophy to another level. For seven or eight weeks in the middle of the year, juniors and seniors meet in lieu of seminar in groups of fewer than 10 students. The classes study one book or explore a subject through reading and discussion of several books.

Preceptorial topics range from Program works, such as Plato’s Republic and Machiavelli’s The Prince, to contemporary masterpieces such as Gabriel García Márquez’s One Hundred Years of Solitude. An elective in the truest sense, tutors and juniors and seniors propose topics for the preceptorials.
"

Well, they have videos too. All interesting. But for my organization I feel that we need to have a lighter reading load.

SJG

^^^^^ a more varied load too, not just Old Great Books, and some commentary books too.

SJG

So, reading about biomagnetics, had to crack open my Raymond Serway Physics book and review some electromagnetism. It does not even get to electromagnetism until you are over 600 pages in.

I say it is well written. But working the homework problems in such a book is hard. Always questions of units, and of proper signs.

I feel sorry for those tasked with teach such a class to those who do not really want to learn.

But can people learn such by self study? Will they? Can it work?

I say that part of the answer is computers, because today with computers you can simulate all sorts of complex things, and so that provides the motivation.

Can people learn via supervised independent studies, even such challenging material, without home work and examinations?

SJG

The key thing about being a vocel is that its voluntary celibacy. They do it to themselves. They don't take any responsibility for anything. Anyone can get laid in any environment if they work on themselves. Start lifting weights and working out and you'll be sexy to women no matter what you look like.

I agree with you DC. People have to want to learn, or it is just a waste of time. But my question is, will supervised independent studies also work on highly demanding mathematical materials, as is expected of Physics and Engineering students today?

PhatBoy99, yes being a Vocel is voluntary.

But my feeling is that in demanding full time university programs, it is a choice which there is a great deal of pressure to make:

1. Need all your time for your studies.
2. The women do not want relationships, interfere with their own schooling, only want guys who have graduated and established an elite career. So they want to wait, and use the hook up script in the meantime. Yes, that is getting laid, but it is entirely at the woman's discretion. Not do good.
3. Full time student has limited status in the eyes of outside women. They look to current employment and that only.

So my thesis is that it is better to set up some alternative sort of schooling, and that this would best be life long, supervised independent studies.

Have to break this idea that college is just for employment purposes, or that cash value is the reason for learning.

SJG

Okay, so besides the degree programs, St. John's Annapolis MD, also has some Community Enrichment Programs

https://www.sjc.edu/annapolis/programs

These Community Seminars
https://www.sjc.edu/annapolis/programs/c…

"
We offer a range of seminars: A Year of Classics, meeting once a month from September – May in various cities and on the St. John’s College campus; Weekly Classics, meeting once a week from 4 to 8 weeks, and Weekend Classics, both meeting on the St. John’s College campus in Annapolis; and Summer Classics meeting in July on the St. John’s College campus in Santa Fe, NM. You are invited to join us for as many of these seminars as you wish and as your schedule permits. You need not have a previous connection with St. John’s College, although those who do are wholeheartedly welcome.
"

A Year of Classics
They read lots of stuff, of Plato it is only Republic

Well of their other community programs, they don't have any more Plato.

Let me go back to the original undergrad program

Yes, of Plato they read Republic, and about 10 other dialogs.

My group will be more like this, mainly Plato. Its just to provide some commonality. Mostly it is independent studies.

SJG

In a Historic First, Senate Advances Bill to End U.S. Support for Illegal War in Yemen
https://www.democracynow.org/2018/11/29/…

Dec 7th 1941, a date which will live in infamy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhtuMrMV…

Frijid Pink - House of the Rising Sun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t40INnb6…

April Wine - I Like to Rock (Official Music Video) ( Couple of little snippets from other songs in this )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlcY_enz…

Rare Earth - I Know I'm Losing You (full version) ( first White act signed by Motown.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F28X8--2…

Sugarloaf - Green-Eyed Lady (Original Song HQ) 1970
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_i7PKdQ…

The Guess Who - No Sugar Tonight / New Mother Nature (Audio)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMG-Mi9I…

IRON BUTTERFLY IN- A-GADDA-DA-VIDA IN HD BEST FULL VERSION
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCkHanF4…

Deep Purple - Child In Time - 1970
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OorZcOzN…

Rare Earth - Get Ready - complete track -1970
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yan9WilV…

Steppenwolf - The Pusher
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XqyGoE2…
Does this apply to Donald Trump? Germany already has War Crimes indictments against George W. Bush and Donald Rumsfeld?

Steppenwolf - Magic Carpet Ride (Version 1969)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPE9a_ep…

"Lola"- The Kinks ( curious video )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AcS49Ud…

Eric Burdon & War - Spill The Wine ( live, Beat Club )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i0DMbCK…

Paint It Black ( quite good )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTbvJ-bY…

A Horse With No Name - America (Lyrics) ( hot girl in white )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpSdePGg…

Chicago ~ I'm a Man [studio version]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvmeEyVd…

Humble Pie-30 Days In The Hole
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdXjm8pZ…

Bad Company - Bad Company (From "Live at Wembley" CD, DVD & Blu-ray)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7vPjic5…

Notice the scene, from Edison's "The Great Train Robbery"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuto7qWr…

Isn't it true that so many of the Western Bad Men had been Confederate Deserters? They were shamed because they were on the losing side, but shamed again and not able to go home, because they had not served honorably?

Do you agree that the states which attempted succession should have been broken up, the lines redrawn, and the land redistributed? Today the political battles we fight still pertain to the underpinnings of slavery.

"
Universal jurisdiction is the principle that some crimes are so heinous that the courts of any country can and in certain cases must take jurisdiction over them. Universal jurisdiction is international law’s response to the spectacle of tyrants and torturers who cover themselves at home with immunity and impunity. It is the principle that led to the arrest, for instance, of Chilean General Augusto Pinochet when he traveled to London. It’s the principle under which the former dictator of Chad, Hissène Habré, was prosecuted in Senegal.
"

https://www.democracynow.org/2018/11/29/…

So let me look now at University of San Francisco St. Ignatius Institute
https://www.usfca.edu/st-ignatius

Courses Offered
https://www.usfca.edu/st-ignatius/course…

Brochure
https://www.usfca.edu/sites/default/file…

They don't seem to list exactly what they read. But it looks like it is intended to be compatible with all other majors, so likely the reading list is kept moderate.

SJG

The Broken Scales Of Wendy Carlos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuT6Y53L…

Wendy Carlos Alpha Scale
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLT6E4zS…

Music Revolutionaries - Robert Moog & Wendy Carlos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtPJtSBB…

Serious Earthquakes In Alaska
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/large-earthqua…

If we have justice, then no one will ever be without what they need.

If we do not have justice, then money will never be a reliable substitute.

Medicare For All
https://www.democracynow.org/2018/11/30/…

Bernie Sanders, Economic Justice
https://www.democracynow.org/2018/11/30/…

"Inspired by one of the most incredible presidents in U.S. History, The Thomas Jefferson Center at UT at Austin is aimed at “educating citizens and leaders to understand the meaning of liberty and to exercise it wisely.” Jefferson believed this to be possible by being educated in the liberal arts tradition of Great Books."

Thomas Jefferson Center, core texts
https://liberalarts.utexas.edu/coretexts…


"
Welcome to the Thomas Jefferson Center Book Shelf. This web page offers a list of many of the core texts which are read and discussed in Jefferson Center classes, and which can provide the foundation for a serious great books education. We are offering this list, accessible on the left of this page and broken down by four major categories, for two main reasons. First, we want to give students an idea of what works they can expect to study if they decide to pursue our certificate. Second, we want to provide a public resource to help guide people outside the university who are interested in studying the core texts on their own. We hope that this list will help guide you in your own reading.
"

Philosophy and Literature of the Ancient World
https://liberalarts.utexas.edu/coretexts…

So for Plato they rae reading Republic, Gorgias, and Symposium. ( need more than that )

Also Apology and they recommend: Thomas and Grace Starry West,
in Four Texts on Socrates, Cornell University Press

For Aristotle it is Nichomachean Ethics, Metaphysics, and The Poetics

And they use the NRSV Bible, w/ Apocrypha.

Don't know that they read the whole thing.

THey read Aristotle's Politics, and they Read Kant, and Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra, Beyond Good and Evil, and Genealogy of Morals.

They read lots of stuff, including:
Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, The Communist Manifesto and Karl Marx, Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1848

https://www.amazon.com/Philosophic-Manus…

All in all a most impressive program from UT. Is it practical for people who are majoring in other things? Hard to say. No matter, anyone who wants to can follow their lead and read the same things.

http://symposiumsa.com/

SJG

Want Ads - Honey Cone (1971)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c58XCtIj…

Save this info someplace safe, as the Feds can strike without warning. They took down SF Redbook, and they scared Xoticspot into closing.

http://testosteronelifeboat.freeforums.n…
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal

So consider now Thomas Aquinas College , considered to be a far right Catholic school.

https://thomasaquinas.edu/
yes, living up to its rep, Santa Paula CA

And yes, here is what they read, 4 years worth.

https://thomasaquinas.edu/a-liberating-e…

And so of Plato this is in total:

Meno, Protagoras, Gorgias, Apology, Crito, Phaedo

Ion, Symposium, Republic

Timaeus

Phaedrus

Looks good.

The Aristotle listing involves more, and his works are longer.

A useful list from this school.

SJG

TJ Street
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/9620…

So the 5th and final school which I selected off of nicespice's list was Biola. I have acquaintances who go there. Far as I can tell, it is a school for Born Again Imbeciles. But this is why it is one of the 5 I selected. So many of the Great Books Schools being Catholic, I wanted to see if this one was different.


Biola University | An All-Christian Community
https://www.biola.edu/allasone?msclkid=b…

All As One ?? This place sounds like a blight on the landscape!

This seems to be it, the Torrey Honors List:

http://academics.biola.edu/torrey/academ…

Well, their reading list is a long list. There is some increase in Protestant writings.

Of Plato and Aristotle it is:

Meno, Phaedo, Apology, Symposium, Republic, Timaeus, Phaedrus
(Plato)

The Nicomachean Ethics, Physics, Rhetoric, De Anima
(Aristotle)

Otherwise I do not see any differences. $40k per year! Holy shit!

This place is only 4k students.

*************************************************

So I have seen what I have wanted to see from these schools.

The reading lists for most of them is still too much for people who are majoring in other things. The lightest is probably the Jesuit University of San Francisco. The most flexible is probably University of Texas Austin.

They want no commentary books, central idea of the Great Books Program. If you are reading commentary, you are not reading the Great Books.

I see some commentary as helping. And I want to include the Pre-Socratics, and that mandates commentary.

I want Ancient Greek, and going more into neo-Platonism and some other more occult related texts.

I want Descartes, Spinoza, Leibniz, but not Hobbes, Locke, Berkeley or Hume

There are other things to consider, but what I want is still primarily supervised independent studies. This Great Books focus is just to build some commonality. And I want discussion seminars with everything read. That makes it go slower.

So thanks again to nicespice for coming up with the list of the 20 schools.

That helps.

“No such thing as bad student, only bad teacher.” ~ Kesuke Miyagi
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php5?id…

SJG

Graham Bond - Love Is The Law - full album + bonus tracks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyg8x36f…

The Dynamex Decision: The California Supreme Court Restricts Use of Independent Contractors
https://www.laboremploymentlawblog.com/2…

TJ Street
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/9620…

So remember, this thread started in response to those in college claiming that they are Incels. And I do not go along with that.

But as I know, the idea of a Bachelor's Degree is that someone is delaying marriage in favor of their studies, so they are a bachelor and celibate.

I for one grew up believing that the Sexual Revolution was going to reform our society and that I would come of age in a world totally different from the one which my parents did.

The Sexual Revolution did change some things. But still, college had severe limitations. Girl friends take serious time and energy. And then there will be the drama.

And college women in serious programs usually do not want relationships.

So it is still pretty screwy. So as I see it, many of the men end up Vocel.

When I graduated, a huge number of people in my department expressed something like that. School meant no GF. So they accepted that, so they were Vocel.

Most of those I kept in contact with quickly have live in GF's, as also did I, once they left college.

So, does college suck, is it a big disappointment, at least for those of us expecting something different, more like a utopian society? Does this limit how far many go in their studies? I say yes, and that we need to build some other kind of a solution.

SJG

Joe Jackson Night and Day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WytS0TE…

TJ Street
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/9620…

http://www.adelitasbartijuanamexico.com/…

Baker Gurvitz Army - Vinyl Album High Quality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cte9Bk_f…

Belly Dancing in High Heels
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5arYhHO…

Belly Dancing in Liquid Dress and High Heels
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDa6aYi3…

The point is their celibacy is voluntary and I don't believe most college students are celibate.

Yes it is voluntary. But many college students do end up having to make the choice between celibacy and graduation. Not all celibates are virgins. To really know, we would need to get accurate information out of a statistically relevant sample.

Many in impacted and competitive departments find that they need all their time and energy for their studies. The college girls, those intent on high powered careers, seem not to want relationships. I have read this, and I have seen this first hand. The town girls do not necessarily think that much of jobless male college students. And town girls will really suck up your time as they try to prepare you for the marital harness.

Many in my department lamented that "having a girlfriend" has been impossible. Most did not take this personally, but it was still a lament. They did not expect it to be like this when originally decided to go to that college.

Guy I knew who would have been considered a nerd, probably was still a virgin when he graduated. But then right after he was shacked up with a girl I had known who had dropped out of the college.

Another I knew, virgin, pretty much screwed up all chances of ever graduating by spending all of his time with first one girl, then later with another. He washed out of three departments.

This will all be more pronounced in the more elite schools, where most of the students are full time and do not have outside employment. In CA this will be some private schools and UC. Elliot Rodger was at UC Santa Barbara. It will be far less so at CSU. A large percentage of CSU students do have some employment, and the average age is higher. So the students have a broader base of social experience. And right after the Elliot Rodger incident I explained this to someone I met from CSU Fresno. At CA's Community Colleges this is even more so.

Many males enter college directly from high school, never having lived away from their parents, maybe even no employment experience, and maybe little experience with females. They believe that the Sexual Revolution will have already solved all the problems, and so they are expecting much They end up being severely disappointed. And then Elliot Rodger was sent to UCSB with the expectation that he would finally find what he needed.

Sometimes this does cause problems. I do not go along with the Incel explanation, but I do believe that college is at least is contributing to certain patters of problem.

Icey, you once said that the parents of Elliot Rodger should have set some "limits" on him. What sorts of limits were you thinking of? I am sure that they did not know that he was splashing beverages on amorous couples, trying to push girls off of an 8' wall, or practicing with handguns.

What sorts of limits, and how would they have applied them?

UCSB and Isla Vista after all were something which they saw as a much needed corrective for Elliot.

SJG

TJ Street
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/9620…

http://www.adelitasbartijuanamexico.com/…

I don't believe that. Its almost the opposite for everyone I know who went to college. Most found their partners there.

I'm not that familiar with Elliot Roger but his parents spoiled him and made him believe he can buy anything and anyone. He had a major sense of entitlement and blamed the world for his problems. Instead of blaming himself, he blamed women for his shortcomings. I think they should have taught him accountability coping skills.

I do not know anyone who married someone they met in college.

Some married people that they knew from high school, and continued to see through college.

Some left college to marry someone from outside. Many married people they met after college.

And this explains why the college women on high power career tracks only want to marry men who have proven that they have actualized their own high powered career, and this means after college.

https://www.amazon.com/Marriage-Markets-…

For myself I came to college with a very lackadaisical attitude towards academics. I saw it all as being like high school, just completely beneath my dignity of giving a shit about.

But this changed as I saw that there actually was worth in it, and so I decided that I did not want to let the opportunity go by me. I decided that I wanted to learn. So I applied myself, for the first time in my life.

But this meant a choice I had to make, even if I did not understand this as I was making the choice.

The college girls were a headache, and at core capable of being quite cruel.

The town girls were like the sticky stuff inside of Roach Motels. Found that I could not get involved with them.

https://www.pestsurvivalguide.com/wp-con…

After college it was like the difference between night and day.

Elliot Rodger did feel entitled to much, but that is just the world which he grew up in. And it really should be like that for all of us, to an extent. We should have most things, like our basic legitimacy, given to us as a birth right.

He did think money money buys thing and people, because it does do this, and it was like that for his parents and the people they associated with.

He blamed the world for his problems because that was how he saw it, his life had been very hard, forced out of a normal high school, i think mostly cause of bullying, and in some sort of special high school for boys having problems. Generally he felt no affinity with the other boys in his high schools. They were into team sports, he was into video games, and for a while into the hackey sack and into the skate board. From Elliot's perspective it was all completely unfair.

Blamed women for his shortcoming, well women were not throwing themselves at him, and from his vantage point, beyond a point, he saw this as unfairly denying him.

And I can say from in college to employed out of college, that in the latter, girls were constantly throwing themselves at me. What they wanted was not a hookup, but car keys and wallet dating, and intended to lead to marriage. They women were not shy, they were completely goal oriented. I will note though that these young women were not generally from rich families, as those I encountered in college usually were.

Brother Beware
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlKmnXV5…

So you say his parents should have taught him accountability. Accountability for what exactly, and measured how?

And coping skills, skills for coping with what exactly, and coping with it how?

SJG

Isaac Hayes - Shaft - live 1973 - love this song!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2cHkMwz…

This was 1973, and that's Jessie Jackson up there on stage with him.

Jessie had a way of getting in front of cameras at the right time.

This is a really gross subject. But in 1968 Jessie was not up on the balcony of the Lorraine Motel in Memphis with Dr. King and Ralph Abernathy at the critical moment. The photo which shows that he was there was a publicity photo taken the day before.

But somehow, as the television crews were arriving, somehow Jessie must have gotten some blood, because it was smeared all over his shirt and he got in front of the cameras, and he was still wearing that same bloody shirt the next day on a television interview show. And his explanations for all of this have changed over the years.

Dr. King had already politely told news reporters that he was cutting Jackson loose. And King talked about the "band leader instinct", seeming to refer to Jackson.

https://www.nytimes.com/1988/04/18/us/ko…

SJG

but thats reality. life is tough. he had every advantage out there but never learned to cope enough to be able to use it for anything.i don't feel bad for him, he was an entitled brat who couldn't deal with reality.

i grew up with people who had nothing. families living in studio apartments. abusive drunk dads. living off welfare, and it taught them to fight for something.

growing up, i wore the same clothes 2 or 3 years and had one pair of payless shoes a year. it taught me to hustle. my girl spent 3 years of her childhood homeless. it taught her to do whatever it takes to never be like that again.

these entitled fags who throw tantrums or murder coz they're not pandered to don't know shit about suffering.

What future family if you don't work on yourself and just think women are something you can buy? Put money to better use and work on yourself.

Money buys comfort but thats about it. It doesn't buy real affection and the sex isn't the same if you're paying for it.

"but thats reality. life is tough. he had every advantage out there but never learned to cope enough to be able to use it for anything.i don't feel bad for him, he was an entitled brat who couldn't deal with reality."

So are you still holding to this idea that the parents should have held him accountable and taught him coping skills? Could you be more specific about how this would work?

I'm just going to explain how I see it:

I'm glad these things are starting to come to the surface. It is actually far harder for the children of the rich to defend themselves against their parents. If a family is poor, it is not isolated, it is completely porous as it is always dealing with outside services, like welfare, cops, probations, etc.

This keeps some bounds on it. The parents cannot completely control how the children think.

This is not my insight, it comes from an attorney I got to meet, one who represents children who have killed a parent.

https://www.amazon.com/When-Child-Kills-…

And as Mones makes a major point of, the children who do this are almost always those who have never gotten into any real trouble. They look noticeably immature for their age.

Elliot Rodger said he wanted to kill the entire family, but that he was afraid to kill his father Peter.

Talk of "hustling", well his parents would never want him to ever try to obtain money by unlawful dealings.

The life of Elliot Rodger was delegitmated. Makes no difference how many new clothes he had, or his designer sunglasses, or his BMW. The delegitmation started with his parents, with their attitudes towards him. Its not that they didn't spend money on him. The issue is that they considered him to be a basket case, a failure, a disappointment, a problem to be solved.

No amount of money spending could ever compensate for this, it does not change what he picks up as their attitude. The step mother followed the views of the father Peter, and his views came right out when Barbara Walters interviewed him.

They were sending Elliot to a Psychotherapist. As I know this is very unusual. Most of the time such therapists will only see a m*n*r if they are to be seeing the entire family.

Don't know if there is a cut off age for this. But to me it does not pass the smell test.

And in my view, even that is not protection enough. It lets therapists play God. They have no authority over the family and they cannot change anything. I say that such therapy upon a m*n*r has to be treated as possible child abuse and so it has to be under the authority and supervision of the Juvenile Dependency Court, where the child will be represented by a Deputy DA and assisted by a CASA Volunteer.

Unfortunately our law does not go that far. Most of the time licensed therapists are still government sanctioned accomplice child abusers

20 years, old, but still very good, and about this county.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/051759…

Hubner himself is a Juvenile Probations Officer.

"suffering so immensely that you decide life isn't worth living anymore"

I believe that it is more children of the wealthy than children of the poor who commit suicide.

And certainly the wealthy are able to engage in child sexual abuse and get away with it, more than the poor can ever get away with child abuse.

For the poor, usually children are just a fact of life. For the well-off they are more likely to be a deliberate project, and one where the adults do not take responsibility for their own choices and intent. In the middle-class family it is the child who is the exploited worker.

"only a pretty girl in bed with us will"
Pretty girl does not mean you have any kind of a relationship.

I have never been an advocate here of paying women for sex. Rather what I have said is that money can be a show of respect and care. It also is often necessary so that the girl does not disrespect you are see you as being unfair with her.

But I have always said that you should not try to use money to persuade her to do anything she would not be otherwise perfectly happy to do.

P4P venues being us a cultivated eroticism in the high heels and makeup, and they help us break down the marital rules of eligibility, which will always be part of middle-class society. So by playing the situations off against each other, you can get the best of both.

But I have also always held up my own organization as the real solution and objective, not more P4P.

And just to steer back to the OP, I am saying the college is often not what is needed, not the solution which is required. And this leaves many short changed of the sort of education which they really need.

I could see Elliot Rodger coming to thrive in some sort of a small arts college, and all the better if he could enhance his social status and experience by a part time job and by being a participant in an artist's collective.

This would not give him the Isla Vista party zone, which is what made his father want to send him there, but it would give him a group of people he could know, he could find his own way, and as things go, likely there would sometimes be girls who were "throwing themselves at him".

Part of my interest in Elliot Rodger is that I am not hearing other people in any way criticizing UC over the incident.

SJG

Egg Cream - Lou Reed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5KUHWKH…

The Velvet Underground -- Oh! Sweet Nuthin'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwo0gpa6…

X - The Have Nots
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6e1zPok…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AOH_thC…

X Some Other Time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jUvluq4…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlnTjVDQ…

X - Los Angeles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUiZHt6s…

Daily Digit: Believe it or not, Chicago is not the murder capital of the U.S.
https://news.yahoo.com/daily-digit-belie…

"But when adjusting for its large population, Chicago has fewer deaths per capita than many other cities. St. Louis has had the nation’s highest murder rate for the past four years, followed by Baltimore, Detroit, New Orleans and Baton Rouge."

Farm, Psychedelic Blues-Rock 1971
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plfEvepn…

Steppenwolf - The Pusher
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XqyGoE2…

Magic Carpet Ride
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLuUGblO…

Fairies Wear Boots - Black Sabbath
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab-ZNU76…

Paranoid - Full Album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWvKvOVi…

Katherine Newman criticizes the white exurban monoculture high schools for their rampage shooters. But no one has criticized UC for the Elliot Rodger matter.

As I see it, lots of guys need to go Vocel or quasi-Vocel to get through college. If they understand this and are making a conscious chioice, okay. But if the guy is taking the problems personally, when they are created by the college, harm is already happening.

SJG

SJG

College still tends to be like a giant high school. If people want to function, they do seem to end up having to go Vocel.

It is all just another delay before adulthood.

We need some other kind of educational venue.

SJG

Gary Clark Jr. - Bright Lights and notice Doyle Bramhall II, playing left handed and with a left hander's body, but with it strung for a right hander. Look close and you can see this, and if you listen to him play and watch close you can hear it. He learned always using borrowed guitars from right handers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_ZeDn-h…

if they're doing it because they have to and not because they want to, they'd be incels.

^^^^ A very smart man! And that is exactly the point of this thread. The Middle-Class lives in Bad Faith. It does not admit to itself that it is making choices all the time, and that it indeed has to create values for itself.

"Given the fundamental division of the human situation into facticity and transcendence, bad faith or inauthenticity can assume two principal forms: one that denies the freedom or transcendence component (“I can't do anything about it”) and the other that ignores the factical dimension of every situation (“I can do anything by just wishing it”). The former is the more prevalent form of self deception but the latter is common to people who lack a sense of the real in their lives."

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/sartr…

They are making the Vocel choice, just as they have made the choice to be in college, and just as they have made the choice of only going to places and associating with crowds where they probably will not get laid. Nothing wrong about such choices, they just need to admit it to themselves.

So I notice some alternative schools:

John F. Kennedy University, fully accredited, by the same people who accredit Stanford and UC Berkeley. Online, and at the Pleasant Hill, and the San Jose campuses:

https://www.jfku.edu/student-experience/…

Powered by FlexCourse

https://info.jfku.edu/doctor-of-psycholo…

Sofia University ( had been Institute of Transpersonal Psychology ) ( Palo Alto, same location )
https://www.sofia.edu/

Integral Transformative Practice, Corte Madera
https://www.itp-international.org/

Previous Thread: Alternative Educations
https://www.tuscl.net/app/discussion.php…

SJG

Joe Jackson - Breaking Us In Two
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g01HSthc…

To my ear this is an extremely sad song.

A lot of emphasis on minor triads

Breaks some of the conventions for guitar music, using lots of slash cords, and this F# Major. Black key music, okay for keyboard, but not common for guitar because it uses no open string notes. Are his people using an alternative tuning?

https://www.guitartabs.cc/tabs/j/joe_jac…

https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab/joe…

So how would Elliot improve himself? I presume that you mean by working out at the gym?

Well, he did try to master first the hackey sack, and then the skateboard. Mostly he wanted to be able to show off. He found that he was okay, but just okay, so he gave these up. More jr high school stuff.

But then cosmetic working out is just for cosmetics too.

I would agree that one who keeps in good shape feels and moves differently. This is why I like the bicycle. I use it for all weather 24-7 transportation riding, not just for recreational riding.

But basically Elliot needs something to which he can really apply himself, something which leads somewhere. This is how I see it.

Comments?

SJG

The Jeff Healey Band - Live In Belgium (Full Concert 1993)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_ufNFTA…

The sexual revolution is largely a fraud. Need something better.

SJG

TJ Street
https://farm8.static.flickr.com/7318/961…
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5488/96200…
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/9620…
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5449/96322…

^^^^^^^^ That sounds right to me.

And they say that where Elliot Rodger lived with his father and step mother, Topanga Canyon, was one of the most hippie counter culture sexual free love places in the country.

So Elliot was sent by his father and birth mother to UC Santa Barbara, believing that Isla Vista would be the ideal place for Elliot to "get laid". So this issue had become the central focus of his life.

I went to college with lots of guys who never got laid. I also knew many who's lives and educations were completely derailed by all encompassing first relationships. So for lots of people, college is a mess.

Elliot went to three different Community Colleges. But he would drop a class if it had any hot looking women, or any affectionate couples in it. He just could not stand that. So he completed zero classes.

Then he enrolled at UCSB, and over his first year he would complete one class. Then by the second year, as things were not working out as he and his father had hoped, he stopped even taking classes.

And why not, nothing is working. He had no real academic interests. He just wanted to solve his central problem. Why should he be in college. Only there as he had no other place to go.

As he saw it, influenced by PUA, PUA-HATE, Men's Rights Movement, there is a social status problem, women don't like his type, they like this athletic jock type. So why should he continue if everything is completely unfair, and if no one is showing him any fallacies in his view. I feel that his view of himself was really coming from his father Peter.

So he opted on a very high profile suicide.

Does this suggest that there is something wrong with UC?

And where else might he have been? He needed to be doing things which were actually engaging for him, like some kind of a small arts school + arts collective + some kind of suitable bohemian employment.

My instinct now says that Elliot was a victim of family sexual abuse, and the main suspect would be Peter, getting back at the birth mother. This is my instinct. I do not have specific evidence.

I say that the Sexual Revolution did much to weaken the death trap which is marriage. But no, it has not served everyone well.

I read lots of text books, and so will the people in my organization. For those who know the material well, they can read outline format books just as easily as they can read the morning newspaper. They already know the material, very little of the book is new to them.

Now usually these will be the same people who teach the classes using such books. But why can't I know the material that well myself? I should be able to and this is what I am working towards. A college education is nothing unless you continue to educate yourself.

But I still cannot read every book. My organization will be in part organized around Think Tanks, where people read lots of books, and then present to the group about them, and often relevant to some specific directional decisions which are at hand. As it is, I am myself very good at such executive overview strategic research.

SJG
Official Parking Lot Bouncer

As Most Diverse Congress in History Takes Office, Dems Push to End Shutdown Without Funding for Wall
https://www.democracynow.org/2019/1/4/mo…

'Leaked' Video Of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Proves She... Has Friends, Can Dance
https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/apos-leak…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1noBAbLa…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBeuzWWK…

Edwin Starr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztZI2aLQ…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01-2pNCZ…

War - The World Is a Ghetto 1972 Full Album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmheOZtL…

How To Tell If Someone Is Truly Smart Or Just Average
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/how-t…

TJ Street
https://farm8.static.flickr.com/7318/961…
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5488/96200…
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/9620…
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5449/96322…

Warren Haynes ­with Joe Bonamassa -- Guitar Center's King of the Blues 2011
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX14smq2…

Beth & Joe - I'd Rather Go Blind - Live in Amsterdam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEHwO_UE…

So we have this Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and her leaked rooftop dance video.

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/apos-leak…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1noBAbLa…

So I am very happy that she has been elected to congress.

When I first learned about her I had figured that she graduated from this Boston University, then she would have gone to law school. Seems to be not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandria…

After she graduated, with her father's death, she had to help her mother prevent their home from being foreclosed on. Doing this she got in volved in political activism right away.

So not to pick on her, if you go back to that roof top video, dancing at Boston University, is she part of a problem?

Sounds like she has never been married, 29yo. Is she gay? Who knows. And definitely she and all women have the right to live how they choose.

If you were a young man in her school and approached her, what would happen? She so bound up in school and maybe politics or family matters, so she will not go out with you? Delaying relationships until she graduates and has a career going, and looking only for men who have the same?

Is she a contributing factor to men in college being pressed to go Vocel?

Maybe I cannot say that, as it is making presumptions against her rights. But is being in college a bad place for a man to be, especially if his high school years experience had many challenges and left him with many unresolved issues?

So she has even now posted a counter video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBeuzWWK…

SJG

The Three Types of Sex Magick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8164MFv…

Symbolism Power of Sexmagic 8 parts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=movI5wM7…

Joe Bonamassa - "Sloe Gin" - Muddy Wolf at Red Rocks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvvgZMGp…

Joe Bonamassa - "Midnight Blues" - Beacon Theatre - Live From New York
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z74lr3t…

Back in the mid-90s, three young Jewish women realized they could no longer keep silent about Israel’s occupation – and decided to do something about it. Watch their story – our story – here.
https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

I like Alexandria too. But do you think that for a young man in college she would prove to be a source of frustration?

And again, she has the right to live life as she chooses.

SJG

She seems like she would be an approachable person, but probably just not interested in a relationship. It is her right, but for the young guy, probably better to be someplace else.

Just thoughts here. Women can be how they want to be. But college can have real costs beyond money.

SJG

Thinking more about this, there is no way that when I was in college that I would have been ready to chase after a girl like this Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

Coming to think of this now, there was a local Mexican-American girl, really nice looking and very nice. She befriended me. But I always knew she was out of my league. And she was into Latino progressive politics. I was not at the point where I was ready for that. I was not ready.

College has its limitations, but high school, in my opinion, tends to be even worse. I locks many into very closed niches.

The whole thing needs to be changed.

SJG

Joe Bonamassa - "Midnight Blues" - Beacon Theatre - Live From New York
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z74lr3t…

The Thrill Is Gone - B.B.Kng & Richie Sambora
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b04m75Pb…

Alvin Lee, Bluest Blues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB6OlJqV…

Deep Purple - Lazy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EvYI5OT…

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/9620…

http://www.adelitasbartijuanamexico.com/…

High school is a very narrow social realm, for most people, as I see it. More narrow in suburbia and ex-urbia, than in large cities. The parents want it controlled. This is why they live in the suburbs.

But that control can make it into an internment camp.

SJG

Steve Blank, Lean Startup Model

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Blan…

https://steveblank.com/

Baker Gurvitz Army - Love Is / Memory Lane / Drum Solo / People - Live 1975 (Remastered) HD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8dX1iPe…

Deep Purple - Lazy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EvYI5OT…

THE MOODY BLUES - RIDE MY SEE-SAW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfy8NJtg…

THE GUESS WHO - NO TIME
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meIuAUnZ…

Ep. 002 - Masonic Heroes of the Holocaust
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5WrmUcE…

If one wants to study, college can be a negative place. One is exposed to the herd. And as such, the more you want to learn, the lower your social status.

The herd holds out sex, as the carrot to get people to conform to normative standards.

Now some people can study anywise, but I don't really know how. Some of the faculty members I most admired, were of this type. But I have to now say that to my view, some of these people were frustrated even later in life.

One I admired was a long standing chair of the Mathematics Department. We always gave him a standing ovation at the end of the large classes.

But for most people, college is a negative social place.

The organization I am building will remedy this, but attacking the problems from all directions simultaneously.

SJG

Kenneth Grant, Typhonian Order, pt 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN8XpcU_…

pt 2 of 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGrbn4RU…

Mogg Morgan
https://www.amazon.com/mogg-morgan/s?k=m…

So like the longer a guy stays in college, the longer the time before he is seen as an adult. Some guys are obviously able to make it work, like my professors. But this will not work for everyone.

My organization will solve this by working the problem from all angles simultaneiously. Nature of schooling, money, housing, study environment, work environment, and total pussy saturation 365 days per year.

Do people agree with me that we need a different kind of college?

SJG

Ten Years Since Economic Collapse Sparked Occupy Wall Street, the Cooperative Movement Is Surging
www.democracynow.org/2018/9/18/ten_years…

Schneider's New Book, Sept 2018
Everything for Everyone: The Radical Tradition That Is Shaping the Next Economy
www.amazon.com/gp/product/156858959X/ref…

The Power of Cooperatives: Nathan Schneider & Jason Wiener at The Harvard Law Forum
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCOyOzzu0ZE



and kudos to Founder, anticipating my concerns, and putting this on last nights shut down message:

"
We are currently offline for upgrades to our database.

Our expected return is Jan 18, 2019 @ 00:00 EST.

Go out and have fun tonight, we'll be hard at work.

And don't worry SJG, it's not FOSTA
"

As I think about it now, the kinds of knowledge which I was exposed to as a child, these were some, but still very limited.

In college it was better, but still limited.

Then after college I was deeply effected by a day long seminar led by UC Berkekey's Hubert Dreyfus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubert_Dre…

And then I did learn from a few good people in the work place. And then from these esoteric groups. At that time not occult groups.

And then just seeing that there is so very much to learn, and that conventional college is not the best way. But then also seeing that there are real social and emotional costs to being in college.

A lot of the people who really want to learn, they need to go Vocel.

So what was known by my parents, by comparison, was always extremely limited, as it still remains for most of the population, and college does only a little bit to improve upon this.

SJG

Peter Levenda | Lovecraft, The Yazidi, & Middle Eastern Magic ( this Peter Levenda is always extremely interesting to listen to )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzxuMtAP…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRU9tgr_…

Stones Play List
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC0Qt1lv…

Going to briefly tell the story of a young woman, getting into the last of my college years.

H., I met her at a bar. I was exploring off campus life and town people.

Ended up going out with her. Very nice person. I felt a little bit timid with her.

She supposedly had a serious BF who was a long haul truck driver and so he was often out of town. He may have been a phantom too.

H. was nice and I have no issues with how she handled herself. But she would later go on to tell me that she found me to be immature.

I still might have been able to continue seeing her, but it did seem that she and ai were in different spaces.

1. I was not moving on her aggressively. Just didn't see a need for such. But is this immaturity? People always accuse people who are not do things the way they want, as being immature.

2. I was mainly focused on school. At that time I was actually working as a research assistant. The money I was getting was enough that I could have easily met all school and living expenses. But no, I was not looking towards spending money to secure socio-economic status.

Is this immaturity, being focused on school, not being concerned about socio economic status? I say no.

But this girl, whom I do respect, was still judging me in ways which were very narrow.

SJG

Peter Levenda | Sinister Forces, Occult History, & The Nine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg3f6Uqh…

Karl Haushofer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Haush…

Maybe she thought you were immature for not wanting to make her a top priority.

But a person can be immature in one aspect of their life and mature in another.

Well yes, I was not making her, or I should say, fucking her, my top priority. Partly, it was because I had limited experience. Also, I was not sure if she was really receptive to me. She, running a small retail business, and me being in school, were in different spaces.

And then this gets to my main point on this thread, to get though school does one have to go Vocel? The college girls can be frustrating as all hell. But the townies are in different spaces.

The girl was being nice, and respect her for this. But immaturity is just a universal term, used anytime one is not maturing into what the speaker things they should be.

SJG

Daath The Doorway to Knowledge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-IawzBx…

Steve Blank
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Blan…

https://steveblank.com/

Freemasonry is inherently opposed to slavery but what slavery remains for us to fight against today?
https://www.universalfreemasonry.org/en/…

Our society and heterosexual relations are not conducive to getting an education, I mean actually learning something. Girls will only be supportive of it if they can convert it into something about getting money. Otherwise they look at the guy as a piece of shit.

SJG

Its not that I'm against acoustic guitar, its just that I like the electric music so much. And note the 5 string bass.
Eric Clapton - Old Love (Live in Hyde Park 1997)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxVTJr14…

Badge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frPQTiry…

Layla
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX5USg8_…

Joe Bonamassa - "Midnight Blues" - Beacon Theatre - Live From New York
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z74lr3t…
Computer Written Music, 1 hr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAfLCTRu…

JEFF BECK -Brush With the Blues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlqyLqDt…

https://www.aiva.ai/

Move flavors of Aiva generated music
https://soundcloud.com/user-95265362

College cost me a lot, because I need to be out and about other places, to get out of the box I was locked into growing up. College offered much, but it did not really offer me what I needed to find.

SJG

Saw this woman's picture somewhere and it reminded me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFZPBSh0…

https://www.e-chords.com/chords/shocking…

But while most all the videos for this song are clearly lip sync, and they even require people playing instruments not shown on stage, I have finally found this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWb8_DH8…

I'm not against acoustic guitar, its just that I like electric guitar music so much. And electric guitar can do things which acoustic guitar cannot. Needs to feel like you are there with them, not like it is just a contrived television show. Letting this finally be the psychedelia it was intended to be.

Richard Smoley: Magic and the Occult
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh8ahm7B…

Ecstasy of St. Teresa
https://s3.amazonaws.com/test.classconne…

Ferdinand de Saussure
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_…

Heart - All I Wanna Do Is Make Love To You
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBfP63T0…

https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab/hea…

Richard Feynman. Why. ( magnets )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36GT2zI8…

Mike Oldfield - Tubular Bells III CONCIERTO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZq5huke…

King Crimson - Live In Japan (full concert)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYE7XCVA…

Parsifal and the Fisher King -- Beginner's Mind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysTBkwVV…

Conscious Love: Insights from Mystical Christianity, by Richard Smoley
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/078798…

So when I was in college it was saturate with anti-intellectual attitudes. Stupid for people, being in college, but not needing to be so.

One roommate, any time he heard what someone's major was, he would say, "What are you going to do with that?"

Meaning, he needed to see a direct link to future high wage employment or he was going to denigrate it.

Stupid really. He did not really need to be in college to do what he said he wanted to do, and most of the other careerist's didn't really need to either.

I tried not to add to that type of thinking. But I have to say that I did not really set a counter example either. A tough and stupid place to have to be really.

So if one is in an unfriendly environment and they don't want to assimilate, what do they do? Well one of the answers has always been voluntary celibacy. Besides just declining to make babies, it keeps you from getting wound into the familial relations, and it protects you from being emotionally manipulated by the women.

Is it so, do people select voluntary celibacy without realizing that this is what they are doing? Does this make sense?

People know when they should refuse to assimilate.

SJG

Crazy Mini Engines
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfDZKanK…

Richard Smoley - The Kabbalah: Key to Hidden Knowledge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-R4sOrW…

Have You Seen The Saucers - live, 1970
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrVqhs4I…

1957, Italy, police officer issuing a woman a ticket for wearing a bikini
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/4642534/thumbs…

TJ Street
https://farm8.static.flickr.com/7318/961…
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5488/96200…
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/9620…
http://www.adelitasbartijuanamexico.com/…
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5449/96322…

Shocking Blue - Venus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWb8_DH8…

To avoid becoming like the college herd, one pretty much has to adopt Voluntary Celibacy. Otherwise the women can pressure and manipulate you.

Outside of college, one has more choices, less herd like.

SJG

TJ Street
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3752/96322…

Jefferson Airplane 5-7-1970 Fillmore East Complete Show
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrVqhs4I…

Richard Smoley - The Kabbalah: Key to Hidden Knowledge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-R4sOrW…

College does not really offer that much social diversity. Some us needed much more, and were suffering when it was absent, and when college was an impediment to being able to find it.

Going Vocel is really just a means of resisting conformist pressures and manipulations.

SJG

TJ Street
https://farm8.static.flickr.com/7403/961…
https://www.flickr.com/photos/navymailma…

Richard Smoley - The Kabbalah: Key to Hidden Knowledge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI6c5zoV…

We have talked a great deal about P4P versus Civilian,and about issues for those in college.

We definitely are having better convos now, as a certain self selected group has opted to remove itself by going down that hatch out in the center of the parking lot, into that Underground Circular VIP Room

I want to state here a few of my own observations specifically pertaining to college. And again I want to make it clear that I am not taking sides or criticizing anyone personally.

There are already several recognized issues about college, and there may be more as well.

First of all, it amounts to just a delay before being accorded adult status. For a young man in the work place, young women are throwing themselves at him. But in college he is still seen as immature, and likely is lacking in needed worldly experience.

Second, everyone is under a great deal of time pressure. Relationships can just be too much trouble, especially car keys and wallet dating, and then the emotional drama. And then their may be cost and budgeting issues, car costs and maintenance issues too.

And then in college, one is still expected to be part of the herd, and this may mean anti-social activities like chemical mood alterants, or just having to accommodate one's educational plans to lowest common denominator thinking. We get more freedom to go our own way out in the post college world.

So like you have High School, maybe a Jr. College, a 4 year University, maybe Graduate School, when does a guy get the chance to learn about relationships with women? And what is the cost of doing this?

Always such relationships will interfere the education, because it is on a fixed high pressure time table. All the more so in impacted programs, where people are washing out, and others want to get in, and where school and even part time employment are not really compatible.

And so you might say that learning about women and relationships should happen progressively at each stage.

Well in many ways that is the most difficult, as it requires continual submission to the herd, its drugs, and its stupidities.

Well part of the problem is that not everyone agrees with the sexual revolution, and especially sex outside of marriage.

This book is basically saying that it is necessary, and as such there must be access to contraception and abortion.
https://www.amazon.com/Red-Families-v-Bl…

And so it says that people who are getting this kind of sex ed highly influenced by religion and centering on abstinence, they are really getting locked into second tier life.

The college women on high power degree and career paths do not want relationships. They will be satisfied with occasional hookups, entirely at their discretion. But they do not want to move towards marriage until their career is established, and only with a man who also has such a career himself. So it is a very elitist thing.

And then kind of sexuality offered in college is still so bound up in herd think.

It was not there for Elliot Rodger, and he went further and further into the Men's Rights Nut Zone.

I say we need a completely different kind of education, staring in college, but maybe for high school too. Otherwise it is at a minimum trading off education for sex and relationships.

And so we should not be surprised when some young men in college are at least experimenting with P4P.


SJG

The Mentors - Sex Slave promo (clip) ( genre known as Rape Rock, youtube login required )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHuU-QZS…

full song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OocHjKUb…

Mentors, Play List
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHuU-QZS…

Attack of the Giant Leeches 1959
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_JnBEsr…

Happy Go Lucky Local -- Duke Ellington
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNnplwRb…

Jimmy Forrest : Night Train ( 1952 )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxqQxJt_…

Burlesque Music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cG-9WQ0P…

Venus - Shocking Blue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWb8_DH8…

Jefferson Airplane 5-7-1970 Fillmore East Complete Show
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrVqhs4I…

Jefferson Airplane at Wally Heider Studios
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY1k9AWV…

Sink the Bismark - 1960 movie ( very good, seen many times )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VKVeIUL…

Sink The Bismarck - 1996 History Channel Documentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC3kDrlt…

Robin Trower - Full Concert - Rockpalast Crossroads, Bonn - 2005
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmoMb0gN…

Joe Bonamassa - "Breaking Up Somebody's Home" - Live At The Greek Theatre
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DxaVOeu…

I think its not about not wanting to be part of a "herd" but rather the inability to socialize into their peer groups.

Well, often socializing into their peer groups would require becoming part of the herd.

College, as I see it, is really a mixed bag.

SJG

Is it really so bad to fit in at a young age? I think its healthy social development. We learn the most from stupid mistakes.

Herd sociability brings people down to a lower level of evolution. The herd is largely about fallacious ideas and anti-social practices.

It seems that if one wants to evolve beyond that, it is hard in college. Rather one has to get out into the outside world where they can engage in political organizing, and use what means are available to generate income.

In college, the people there are already investing themselves and a great deal of money into fulfilling normative expectations. As such, it is actually a horribly anti-intellectual environment, and it is hard to build up much of a following in college.

SJG

Sexy Girls World Map ( consider Ecuador and Argentina )
https://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-co…

Argentina
https://www.argentinaxp.com/wp-content/u…

Year of the Pig
http://media.gettyimages.com/vectors/hap…

Some of us had to learn to see beyond the herd at a young age, if we were not to become like our parents.

SJG

In 1967, Polish mercenary Rafal Ganowicz was asked what it felt like to take a human life. He replied: "I don't know, I've only ever killed communists"

People in college, they are committed to the program, to the approved education, and to living with the culture. So if you want to lead people another direction, best to do it somewhere else.

SJG

Rebels: A Journey Underground #1 - Society's Shadow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjsziYpd…

TJ Zona
http://doxyspotting.com/a-classic-pickup…

http://doxyspotting.com/?p=120146

like?
http://doxyspotting.com/?p=123014

As far as college, I think the most important thing is not to let college degree(s) define you. You need your own career and you need your own public identity. And these should be based on creativity, originality, and insight, but never just on competence. If you let yourself get pushed into depending on degree(s), then it will be competence based and you will be used.

I always knew this. But the force of social pressure cannot be overestimated. People ever where will want to force you to go down the competence route. Then you will be used and walked on.

SJG

Mexico City, has so many people and cars on the streets, that if one is interested in hookers, likely best to find a bar, or you would really have to know that area.

http://doxyspotting.com/?p=70423

http://doxyspotting.com/yellow-dress/

http://doxyspotting.com/?p=129645

http://doxyspotting.com/?p=97293

http://doxyspotting.com/?p=70423

http://doxyspotting.com/?p=88173

http://doxyspotting.com/?p=112750

Richard Smoley, Inner Christianity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52xShzP5…

Business Law Today, 10th and 11th Edition, Roger LeRoy Miller
https://www.textbooks.com/Fundamentals-o…

New, Used, purchase as ebook (pdf) and in libraries

I was highly influenced by a few of the university faculty I came to know. But later in industry, I would say that the majority of my supposed peers did not really have knowledge based professional careers, they just had jobs.

They did what they were told, what they saw other people doing, and they bragged about it.

These are all conformist pressures, which most people are not prepared to deal with.

I was able to recognize it, but still not effectively deal with it.

SJG

The End of Work and the Case for Universal Basic Income
Andy Stern, former President of the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), author of Raising the Floor: How a Universal Basic Income Can Renew Our Economy and Rebuild the American Dream, and Senior Fellow at Columbia University's Center for Business, Law, and Public Policy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKzNBXFn…

How Ayn Rand Became a Hero to Right Wing Nerds -- Thom Hartmann
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY1ik8bu…

Alec Baldwin: Trump's 'SNL' Attack May Be 'A Threat To My Safety'
https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/alec-bald…

Kim Kardashian
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/kim-…

Thierry Mugler
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thierry_Mu…
https://www.muglerusa.com/
http://www.livingly.com/The+Most+Beautif…

Intimidation, Pressure and Humiliation: Inside Trump’s Two-Year War on the Investigations Encircling Him -- New York Times
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/19/us/po…

Venus, Shocking Blue, actually live, with only what you see on stage, and not hamming for the camera, quite good, a coffee house grade performance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWb8_DH8…

Alvin Lee – The Bluest Blues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB6OlJqV…

JEFF BECK -Brush With the Blues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlqyLqDt…

Joe Bonamassa - I'll Play The Blues For You
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-Jzcu5S…

Conventional universities must not be allow to maintain control of what is and what is not a legitimate education, and especially in the Sciences.


SJG

A most impressive article:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/19/us/po…

The origins of freemasonry : facts & fictions / Margaret C. Jacob. (2006)

Ending the Punishment of Poverty: Supreme Court Rules Against High Fines & Civil Asset Forfeiture
https://www.democracynow.org/2019/2/21/e…

Frances Fox Piven, Professor of Political Science and Sociology at the Graduate Center, CUNY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQBgRPtL…

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IHG…

NOLO, Bourbon Street
http://doxyspotting.com/?p=131772

AZTECA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS9WVbQT…

Peter Green - In The Skies ( Full Album ) 1979
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_Llz6n8…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zga8bhlm…

I love the smell of napalm in the morning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALi78xSa…

Most people who are good with advanced mathematics, have sat in the lectures and taken notes and done the homework and passed the exams.

Usually you don't find self taught people.

But does it have to be this way? Can alternative self-study programs equal or exceed conventional universities?

SJG

A History of Ordo Templi Orientis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vaR1fUY…

Music Via Radio Telescope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V6NYHal…

Love For Sale ( cover of Billy Holiday )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8htJVyav…

Sunday on the Front Stoop; 'Critical Path', What was Buckminster Fuller trying to tell us?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqCZPxOB…

http://doxyspotting.com/?p=70423

http://doxyspotting.com/?p=88179

Pablo Sender - The Secret Doctrine: Part 1 - How to Study The Secret Doctrine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O2hdnG6…

James Phillips - Secrets of Adepts: An Introduction
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTILhZ3d…

House Votes to Block Trump National Emergency Declaration ( tally means this must have been bipartisan, so it then could pass the Senate. Walls take time to build. So the idea that you build it by declaring a National Emergency is preposterous.)
https://www.democracynow.org/2019/2/27/h…

Ecclesia_Gnostica_Catholica, part of OTO, and predates Aleister Crowley
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesia_G…

http://oto-usa.org/oto/egc/

https://hermetic.com/egc/index

So can people learn more by supervised independent studies than by being in conventional colleges? Can most people do this?

Seems like it has a lot to do with the rest of their social environment. Most people really are hard pressed time wise, with jobs and transportation.

But conventional colleges are not necessarily a good environment either.

SJG

Kenneth Grant & Typhonian References
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex33k5hv…

Bernie Sanders Kicks Off 2020 Run in Brooklyn, New York

Sen. Rand Paul Likely to Oppose Nat’l Emergency in Decisive Vote

https://www.democracynow.org/2019/3/4/he…

Metallica - Ain't My Bitch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNXmKiEq…

Master of Puppets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7blkui3…

Metallica - Bleeding Me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftV_XepI…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftV_XepI…

Thin Lizzy Full Concert U K 1983
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq9qy6TD…

So when people go to college, they are at various places in their lives. Maybe for some the academics are the main draw. But for most I suspect it is just that time in their life, they need a post adolescence phase. College may not be the best answer really.

When I went I joined the Bike Club. It was a community club too, so people outside the university could participate. It was good, real good.

And I had a room mate who knew way more about bikes than I did. I learned a lot.

Though out college I had many room mates and this meant there were always people around. A few not so good, but most very good.

So though I am not a hanging out person, I like to keep busy, I still had all the company I ever could have wanted.

I did have to pretty much give up all bike riding though, later on. Needed that time for my studies.

After college I did do more hanging out and more community activities, and I made more of the kind of hang out friends.

But for myself I have always wanted to do things, mostly hard work. So soon I was working like 80 hours per week.

College, with its time demands not always good for intimate relationships. And college really comes at a huge social expense.

I say we need something else.

SJG

http://www.mexicolindobar.com/

Led Zeppelin - Achilles Last Stand (Live Knebworth 1979)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWOuzYvk…

I think colleges have to accept that they are usually getting people who have never lived away from their parents. So they are getting people who have been shamed and humiliated by the middle-class family.

No, they cannot do psychiatric policing, but they could do things to let the schools be more open and diverse, less of a homogeneous monoculture.

SJG

We're Still Right
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016JP…

Kenny Wayne Shepherd - While We Cry - live Summerfest 2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4T14P37…

Actually, professors at some universities are now being asked to report students who appear mentally unstable to Student Psychiatric Services, Academic Counselors, etc. Which I think is a good thing. Undiagnosed mental illness affects everything from social interaction to scholastic performance, etc

Psychiatric Policing is NO GOOD! We need to organize and directly oppose that.

https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Mental-Illne…

SJG

Its either life long education or going senile. The choice is simple.

If a young man is in college, he might as well be celibate because things are likely to be real hard. A fucked system if you ask me.

SJG

I still feel that for a young man to be in college, he is often having to sacrifice having a public identity, and in effect having to give up on having a sex life.

SJG

Free Universities
https://kpfa.org/episode/against-the-gra…

SJG

If we are going to have UBI, then we need also Universal Medicare and a robust public housing offering at 50% of your UBI.

We want people to be able to live on UBI without fear.

But we also want some sort of free college. A basic free college, mostly supervised independeint studies, and some local discussion seminars, and mostly online stuff and reading, that would cost very little to operate.

SJG

A young guy in college, mostly because he has never been anyplace else. Surrounded by young women who do not want relationships because they are on high powered tracks and want their degrees and careers. And the young man does not understand this, or that it could be different. The women, all they do are hookups, and with frat boy types.

And the young man needs a way to come of age, because the college environment is hostile for him.

It sucks. People get harmed.

We need some other types of schools, for life long learning.

SJG

Christianity and Unknowing, Richard Rohr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnTC4NNI…

Pablo Sender - The Secret Doctrine: Part 1 - How to Study The Secret Doctrine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O2hdnG6…

Social Entrepreneurship
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_ent…

Robert A. Caro on the means and ends of power
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019…

The Irrationality of Alcoholics Anonymous
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-i…

Origins of the Perennial Philosophy School of Thought
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_CNg4dp…

Ananda Coomaraswamy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ananda_Coo…

Pretend You Have A Cold, Pelosi to Biden
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/p…

UC is more age segregated than CSU, which is more so than Community Colleges. Opposite of what one would expect.

So for Elliot Rodger, college meant an involuntary extension of adolescence. He did not understand what was happening, he could not take it, he broke.

For most it does not go that far, but for many their educations are cut short.

So they might get tracked into striver and careerist tracks, rather than being allowed to develop their intellectual inclinations.

Cutting off college might not sound so bad. But what we still need is some other kind of schooling.

SJG

https://cac.org/

Center for Contemplation and Action, oldest neighborhood in Albuquerque, close to highway 40 and 25 junction.
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0702708,…

I think eventually a guy just gets to a point where he can't stand being in college anymore. Its because its the conformist world created by the age and socio-economic segregation.

So even though he may not know much about life beyond college, he still has to go for it.

This can be tough, 'cause he might not have graduated, there might be other degrees or just other learning he wants. And college life usually is less encumbered and less automobile based. But the guy has got to get out, cannot stand it anymore.

So while this might not change, we still need other types of schools to allow people to continue learning and developing.

Often college has mean Voluntary Celibacy, at least to a degree.

SJG

Often a young man is coming into college, having been marginalized and persecuted. College is not going to be a good place to redress this, not conventional college. We need something else.

SJG

Joe Golem: Occult Detective Volume 2--The Outer Dark

https://www.amazon.com/Joe-Golem-Occult-…

Brian Eno ( quite good )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggLTPyRX…

Is it possible to have computers generate such music on their own, and even in real time?

Pablo Sender - The Secret Doctrine: Part 1 - How to Study The Secret Doctrine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O2hdnG6…

How to make life better, more peaceful, more drama free sex, more learning, less car keys and wallet?

My organization!

SJG

Irish Republican Army
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knltGsRc…

Is the sexual revolution a lie, at least for the young man in college?

SJG

So I know a lot about guys who went their own way, made a name and a place for themselves, without academic credentials.

People like the Futurist R. Buckminster Fuller and the Zen Teacher Alan Watts.

Well I think now I also need to know some about people for whom academia worked well. Now for the basic conformist, not likely to be any biography or autobiography.

But there are still people who made their mark, within academia, or because of it.

Think of Richard Feynman, and there are lots and lots of others. But best to get people as close to my own age as possible, people who have lived in the wake of the Sexual Revolution, and people for whom academia worked well. Find out the details.

SJG

We've also got in Paris the Bourbaki Mathematicians, books about them American Mathematical Society

SJG

Battle of Algiers Guerrilla Warfare
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A-Ilve1…

April Wine - I Like to Rock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlcY_enz…

'This is personal for me': Hillary Clinton urges caution on Trump impeachment
https://news.yahoo.com/apos-personal-apo…

Frantz Fanon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ThoGtS-…

Sammy Hagar Standing Hampton - full album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZqC1z87…

Montrose - Rock the Nation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxsSw-bp…

John Lilly says he has "35 years of academic training, fully tenured professor" Some bio material on him is available. Remember, isolation tanks and dolphins.

SJG

So Michel Foucault would be one well worth learning about. The biographical material is there.

PHILOSOPHY - Michel Foucault
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBJTeNTZ…

SJG

Biopower: Why We Don’t Revolt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cpyp9OH…

Alvin Lee – The Bluest Blues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB6OlJqV…

So Foucault, John Lilly, Richard Feynman, Leonard Suskind, John Paul Sartre, and lots of new people, all those who seem to see academia in a positive light. Want to understand these as well.

SJG

Joe Bonamassa - "Breaking Up Somebody's Home" - Live At The Greek Theatre
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DxaVOeu…

Really need to study Foucault, his writings, but also his biography.

Came out shortly after his passing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Passio…
1993

The passion of Michel Foucault / James Miller (2000 paper back)

How much of his life did Foucault spend reading books?

SJG

Deep Purple
Knocking At Your Back Door (Live)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU8TZ00k…

I think people underestimate how much the official recognition of fraternities and sororities has to do with social hierarchy on many college campuses.

SJG

Led Zeppelin II - (Full ReMastered )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bcIjILq…

So can autodidacts learn as well as students in traditional colleges?

SJG

I think college is a problem, need to find some better arrangement.

SJG

Michelle Alexander on The New Jim Crow, at Union Theological Seminary ( she wrote a very important book )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T79I1PLT…

Paul Tillich Symposium: John Caputo Lecture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cog1v44W…

Can't let the experience of structural injustice be turned into a self-improvement project. Need to always live close to your own life experience.

SJG

Talk about such things reminds me of a guy I knew in college, James.

He was kind of consumer world and work world oriented. Transferred in from Community College. Flashy car, flashy clothes. But did not like the college girls, saw them as bullshit.

Said that if he were back in his home place he could be "fucking a different girl every night".

When I questioned this he sneered back, "Okay, some days it would be the same girl".

He did not like the college social scene.

I guess he could have started going out with Town Girls, and I guess got his different one every night. But he was part of that college scene now too.

He had been the supervisor at a retail pharmacy store.

SJG

Elite colleges are really fucked up places:

Lani Guinier and Deborah Bial: "The Tyranny of the Meritocracy"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd5umd_I…

SJG

I guess my friend James, with his hometown GF, she was living on her own, paying rent, self supporting. Most of the college women and men were being supported by their parents. So with his home GF, things were totally different than with the College Girls.

Some college girls, one's I thought highly of, clearly liked James.

I think your elite colleges, low average student age, few students with even part time employment, these are really fucked up places.

Many college age people, in my opinion, are not going to be able to make a serious commitment to academics at that time.

SJG